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Google IPO Problems Surface

manavendra writes "The BBC is reporting that Google has admitted it may have breached stock market laws in the US, while CNET says Google may have run afoul of securities laws when it doled out millions of shares to employees and consultants over the past three years, according to a document filed Wednesday with the Securities and Exchange Commission."

20 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. It's not going to cost them that much... by garcia · · Score: 5, Informative

    This isn't huge news or anything. They found the mistake, theya re going to buy back the shares, it's going to cost about 25 million to buy the shares back.

    25 million out of their on-hand cash reserves isn't that much.

    1. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by Tiroth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can someone explain this? Why would shareholders sell ~28 million shares to Google for ~$1 each when the IPO price is above $100?

      This CNN article values the shares at the IPO price, up to 3.1 BILLION dollars, a bit more than 25 million.

    2. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by irokitt · · Score: 2, Informative

      While that's true, some of the employess will porbably seek legal recourse rather than sell their shares back to Google. They're now open to litigation in about 16 states IIRC. Litigation from their own employees could put Google back a bit more than a casual 25 million.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    3. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by Undertaker43017 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which is why, I suspect, most people won't take them up on their offer. The article states any shares not sold back to the company will be registered, and then tradable. So it may cost them less than $25 million, provided no one sues, which I'm sure someone will....

    4. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to this Register article, that's a problem they're already facing.

  2. Re:Wait... by Knight+Thrasher · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe the link should've been this.

  3. Re:Out of my price range anyhow... by garcia · · Score: 3, Informative

    Technically it would be between $400 and $650 as you are required to buy at least 5. According the article speculators believe that it is overpriced and will quickly fall after the market opens.

  4. Google's SEC fililng by ecklesweb · · Score: 5, Informative

    No that anyone RTFA, much less supplemental information, but for historical purposes here's a link to the specific document in the Google SEC filing that talks about the "recission offer":

    Form S-1 Registration Statement

    This section in particular is a good summary of what they did.

  5. Not the Only Problem Google's Having by Rob+Carr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google is going to be spending a lot of money on lawyers, it would seem. This isn't the only problem they're facing.

    --
    This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
  6. Re:Bzzzttt... Game over! by Xeger · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, it's quite true. They *have* managed their company differently! Whereas most companies report their options issued and shares sold, Google's management didn't. How radical and different-thinking of them! How daring they are, to break the law!

  7. Re:Out of my price range anyhow... by typobox43 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Which stock is more likely to grow 10%? The one that would have to increase by $13 a share, or the one that would only have to increase by $1.30?

  8. Re:Mod Parent up... by The_K4 · · Score: 3, Informative

    And you missed it by 1000 because 0 - 999 are NOT 4 digit UIDs.

  9. Only if they accept the rescission offer by Mr.+Sane · · Score: 5, Informative

    To put it simply: When a company has a unregistered private share offering to non-qualified investors (essentially non-high net worth, or "unsophisticated investors") they are required to get a waiver from the "unsophisticated investor" that they are willing to participate in the risk of investing in an unregistered offering.

    The risk is that there are not the same corporate disclosure requirements for unregistered offerings as there are for registered offerings.

    In the event that the company wants to go public at a later date, they usually provide rescission offers to these investors, which allow them to cash before the risky public offering.

    Most rescission offers are optional, and in the event that the investor declines they will sign an additional waiver that says they are going along for the ride.

    1. Re:Only if they accept the rescission offer by bigpat · · Score: 3, Informative

      "In the event that the company wants to go public at a later date, they usually provide rescission offers to these investors, which allow them to cash before the risky public offering.

      Most rescission offers are optional, and in the event that the investor declines they will sign an additional waiver that says they are going along for the ride."

      So, basically they have to offer to buy back the shares at cost since they were unregistered, okay then not much to this then. Nobody is being forced to sell shares back and the accounting mistake is being corrected.

      People make mistakes in companies like this all the time and they sometimes cost a lot more money than this one might.

      As long as nobody is forcing the employees to sell back the shares, then I don't see the big problem here. Just register the shares and move on... of course does this effect the per share ipo price, where those shares not considered in the valuation?

    2. Re:Only if they accept the rescission offer by Mr.+Sane · · Score: 3, Informative

      One point of clarification: When I refer to "registered" and "unregistered" shares I'm referring to the SEC registration of the offering. All shares are registered (or should be) in the jurisdiction of the company's incorporation.

      Interestingly, the article does not make the distinction, so they may be unregistered with the state (a "no-no") - and therefore they may not have been a part of the outstanding shares that were used in the valuation, as you mentioned. The number of the shares referred to is insignificant to most, but it is (obviously) important to have an accurate picture of your outstanding shares!

      Finally, in the rescission offer, they don't have to buy the shares back at cost - they can offer to buy them back for whatever price they want - even lower than the original offering, but that may lead to lawsuits :)

  10. Re:Mod Parent up... by maugt · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yeah. I never get modded up. Just because I was here before there was even a registration system shouldn't count for anything. Its like those people who used to think they were cool because they had really low ICQ numbers.

    Now, if only the comments system was easier to read and have discussions on, I'd probably post more, but then, no one cares what I say anyway.

  11. ooooold news by odin53 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I guess this article just shows that no one reads these SEC filings -- the rescission offer was disclosed in the very first S-1 filed at the end of April. (direct link to the original rescission offer disclosure) And it's not like it was buried. It has its own entry in the table of contents.

    I think that most financial people who are thinking of buying shares have probably seen this, if they've been following the filings. Remember that there have already been 3 amendments to the registration statement, plus the S-1 to the rescission offer, totaling 5 different documents that disclose it. Also, the financial statements disclose it, so add the Form 10 that Google has filed and the 3 amendments to it, for a grand total of 9 different filings over the past 3 months that all mention it.

    These people probably don't think it's a big deal, because of the relatively small liability (see Section 12 of the Securities Act of 1933), and probably no one will exercise the rescission right anyway (they'd be crazy to do that before the IPO). More importantly, this kind of stuff happens more often than you might think; some companies will just take the risk of this liability and not do a rescission.

    Also, don't confuse section 12 liability (which is essentially about selling shares in unregistered/non-exempt transactions) with rule 10b-5 liability, which is what you hear about all the time (all those class actions are usually rule 10b-5 actions). 10b-5 is about fraud.

  12. Re:Google IPO by jratcliffe · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Maybe I'm missing something, but ... Since they are only selling 9% of their total stock, in effect, they still have majority controlling interest in their own company and can, in effect, tell Wall Street to go stick it."

    Well, no. If you're a public company, mgmt is obliged to act in accordance with the interests of the entire investor base, including minority investors. So, for example, a company couldn't decide to sell key assets to the Chairman for $1, even if he owned 70% of the stock, since such an action would be detrimental to the interests of the other 30% of the shareholders.

  13. Doing a little math by appleLaserWriter · · Score: 3, Informative

    In a filing to the US market watchdog, Google said it had neglected to register almost 30 million shares and options issued to staff.

    It is now offering to buy them back - albeit at prices way below the $108-$135 at which its flotation is set.


    Based on the information from Yahoo! News, I calculated that given a total value of $36 billion, and a share price of $108-$135, there must be between 266 million and 333 million shares.

    Given that Google can raise a maximum of $3.3 Billion, it must be offering at least 24 million shares.

    If it is offering 24 million shares out of a total of 266 million, then it is only offering 9.1 % of the company to the public.

    So, google has neglected to properly account for slightly more shares than they plan to offer to the public. And they are offering at a very high starting price.

  14. Re:Mod Parent up... by ximenes · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually I tried to change it after the fact, for your information. Rob dissed me.