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Canadian Team To Launch X-Prize Attempt Oct. 2
FreeHeel writes "A second team of rocketeers competing for the $10 million Ansari X Prize, a contest for privately funded suborbital space flight, has officially announced the first launch date for its manned rocket. The da Vinci Project, led by Brian Feeney of Toronto, Ontario, said Thursday the group plans to loft its Wild Fire Mark VI spacecraft on Oct. 2, just days after the planned launch of another X Prize contender, the U.S-based SpaceShipOne. The balloon-launched Wild Fire event will be followed by a second launch within two weeks to snag the X Prize purse, according to the plan."
Is the SpaceShipOne team planning for a rapid turnaround (48hr? 72hr?) to try and grab the XPrize before DaVinci has a chance?
Moo.
I'm Canadian....the only thing that seems to rocket upwards here are taxes, so this is good news.
PS. First Post? Perhaps not.
They're going to be pretty unhappy when they get the check and it's 10 million Canadian.
...it doesnt become a wild fire.
The best part of the story is that the team got $500K in funding from Golden Palace.com, who is promoting the launch by saying that they'll enjoy playing casino games in suborbital flight.
Ha.
They've been showing pictures of the project on Space (the Canadian equivalent of Sc-Fi Channel) for months, and I've always gotten the impression that there's gonna be a lot of wreckage strewn over the Alberta countryside.
I can't explain why. Maybe it's the hip, urban office they have, gambling site sponsorship, proprietary fuel source, overall secrecy and hot-air balloon assist that all merge together to fill me with confidence.
"It's going to be one hell of a ride", Feeney said
Yeah, I'll bet.
www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
"Since then, the effort has found a new title sponsor, the online casino firm Golden Palace.com, which has pushed the effort forward. In honor of that, the da Vinci Project has been renamed the Golden Palace.com Space Program powered by the da Vinci Project."
That is about the worst name for a space mission that I have every head.
The prize is just for a manned trip 100 km up. Nothing specifying how you get there from what I understand. I suppose if you wanted to, you could try to build a bigass slingshot and it would qualify.
If they win, they'll make a profit and be able to throw one kick ass party.
If this is based on the feasibility of commercial space flights, my vote is for the one that does it first and makes money. :)
Open Source Java DAO Generator
On the shelf next to preparation A through G.
would make or break their timing w/the baloon thing. It is 1000 feet- baloon top to rocket at bottom. I've got to think you need a calm day to get it going. No?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I haven't been keeping up on the Canadian team, have they even attempted a live fire testing of this launch platform? For some reason, I keep hearing the looney tunes theme and picturing Wiley Coyote whenever I think about this. Whoever the person/people are they plan on sending, your families have my condolences.
I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death - Voltaire
(Bite my maple-sugared ass?)
For descent as the balloon it was suspended from popped. The crewmen, Doug and Bob, were unharmed. However, they have been relieved from duty after the true cause of the incident was determined.
Here is the transcript of the incident from our on the scene reporter, Troy:
Troy: Close call out there today, ay?
Bob: {sip from beer} belch
Doug: Ay
Troy: What happened?
Doug: We had just opened some beers for our ascent when I remembered we did not sew our Wild Fire patch on our jackets.
Bob: {another sip from beer}
Troy: and?
Bob: Hoser {pointing to Dough} knocked over the beers while I was sewing on my patch. Luckily, some guy named Bert gave us some cool sewing kits. [shows off his Scaled Composites travel sewing kit]
Doug: Ay, swell, ay.
Troy: How did this cause the problem?
Doug: Well, Bob let one and I needed to get some air. I opened the door and a bird flew in. I swatted it out but knocked over the beers, ay.
Bob: Hoser. Burp!
Troy: But what caused the accident?
Bob: Hoser, dropped his needle and it popped the balloon.
Doug: Ay, but I was able to recove my beer.
End Story
The sad thing is, they've never really tested their gear. From what I can tell from their webpage, they've fired the engine (unmanned) and had a few parties deciding who got to paint the ship. It seems to me that the Wild Fire crew launching this early, without any real tests of their hardware, is making a foolish decision.
Attempting two space launches in an untested vehicle in an attempt to purse-snatch from a crew who's already flown their ship to the edge of space is only a good decision if your crew-return strategy involves a lot of scraping a smoldering crater with a stick and a spoon.
But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
"...as well as an eight-track tape..."
Let me guess... Steppenwolf's "Magic Carpet Ride".
Sorry, but "Brian Feeney" just doesn't have the same ring as "Zefram Cochrane"...
-- Terry
There's a link to images on the announcement. Follow that, and look for a pic of the da Vinci team. The caption describes them as "racketeers". Ok. :)
It doesn't work. Scaled has been so meticulous about testing, and it's paid off. I don't see the same level of testing in the the competing team. Component level testing only works to a point... Then you need to test the whole shebang.
Someone is going to get hurt. It's not all about that.
http://www.canadianarrow.com/
(I saw their spacecraft during the Hamilton airshow - resembled a V-2 with windows.
My rights don't need management.
Well, their design methodology seems pretty sound, and they have had some pretty big backers, too. Given the extent of time they've put into software simulation of their craft, I'd trust that their abort scenarios are pretty decent.
I mean, there's no comparison with people like Carmack who are just strapping pieces of metal together on a "try it as you go" fashion; even Rutan doesn't seem to have employed such a detailed design process as Da Vinci. Their software actually can back-design the spacecraft due to parameter changes - for example, if they put in a different ISP number, it modifies the CAD design for different tank sizes and re-optimizes the whole craft through a CFD program, while still constraining the craft to basic size/power requirements.
I give them decent odds of making it. Rutan will probably beat them to it (if he doesn't do anything stupid like his last launch in high wind-shear conditions), but Da Vinci has had some good money behind them, has a good design, and a good development methodology.
Yes, I... I've heard good things about the mud. Lots of people talking about the mud...
TFA says that the DaVinci group is planning on using a hybrid rocket engine, using nitrous oxide as the oxidizer (as Rutan's SpaceShipOne does) but using something other than synthetic rubber as the fuel. That does make a little bit of sense, as after Rutan's group settled on their rocket engine design, there has been some spectacular research out of Stanford using paraffin (in the American sense of the word) as hybrid rocket fuel. Paraffin has the nice property that it as it gets hot it turns from a solid into a very free-flowing liquid -- which lets it burn very quickly (something that rubber-burning hybrid motors have a hard time with -- the Rutan engine has four separate channels through the fuel to allow it to burn quickly, this leads to the possibility of blowing chunks of propellant.)
Unfortunately, though, the DaVinci website says that their ship will use Kerosene/LOX as the propellant and oxidizer. They have pictures of the engines, including some test firings, on the web site.
You just don't change engine technology at this point in the project.
The only possibilities are that these people are 1) insane or 2) scam artists. It's too bad, it would be spectacularly great if they were on the up-and-up...but...it doesn't appear that they are.
Thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
As experience has shown time and again, nothing can equal the results of a live test.
It's like learning martial arts without ever practicing with full contact. All that simulation is worth very little in a real fight because there are so many more things going on.
I see programmers do this kind of crap all the time. They code stuff up and don't test very well. Then it gets out in the field and the damn thing falls apart.
If I had to guess I would say these guys have a 10% chance of success and 25% chance of catastrophic failure involving loss of life.
The ratio of people to cake is too big
I happen to both work for the company that makes the Canadarm and also volunteer for the da Vinci project. I'll admit the philosophies of my day job and night job are very different. Both are viable modes of operation in the space industry.
The -only- problem with da Vinci over the year that I've been involved has been money. Now that we have some money, hopefully enough, the problem has suddenly become 'time'. Burt's team has set a tough schedule for us, but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. We've done -tonnes- of design on this rocket, and now we have to take on a sort of skunkworks mentality to get it done. Contrary to what I've been reading today, we will be doing lots of component/subsystem level testing. The amount of integrated end-to-end testing will likely be limited simply due to time. This does NOT mean that the rocket will be fundamentally unsafe. There will be no launch unless it's determined that the pilot has a very high chance of survival.
With our design, there are very few inescapable scenarios. Our engine technology change was made long ago in part due to the added safety (I don't know why it hasn't been added to the website). Failure and loss of the vehicle may be likely (makes it more exciting to tune in on launch day), but there will only be an outside chance of anything morbid.
It's dangerous for this new industry to become obcessed with doing things like the rest of the space industry. Space projects cost a billion dollars because of paperwork and analysis, not because of hardware and software. At my day job, nothing is done unless there is essentially -no- credible chance of failure (loss of crew or loss of vehicle). Anything which could become a hazard to that extent has triply (or more) redundant systems (4 ways to drive the arm joints, etc.)
If my night job (da Vinci) took on that mentality, nothing would get done, and all we'd have is a pile of paper and empty toner cartridges. Take away some of the requirement for -complete- safety, and all of a sudden more gets done.
Anyway, I'm optimistic that we'll get things together pretty soon. We've got some high-profile tests on the books in the coming months. Should be exciting.
This message comes to you from far into the future. We have recently discovered ancient texts that indicate a horrible timeline of events is about to transpire:
1. Canadian team launches X-Prize entry due southeast.
2. US sees incoming Canadian ballistics; President orders retalliation strikes. Canada's government is overthrown by the US in the name of the War on Terror and replaces it with a "better" democratic government.
3. Canadian militias revolt and succed in a coup, overthrowing the new government and militia leaders take over governmental responsibilities. Quebec, on the other hand, grasps opportunity in the chaos and officially secedes.
4. US locks down its northern borders. Canadian military immediately and successfully invades the poorly defended state of Alaska.
5. Russia seizes opportunity to get foothold on the North American continent and invades Alaska; Canadian forces resist, and Russia deploys its nuclear arsenal.
6. US sees ICBMs launched by Russia toward the North American continent; fearing they have allied with Canada, US retaliates, firing its arsenal at Russia as well as all other Russian-allied or communist nuclear powers.
7. Global nuclear war sends civilization back 500 years of development. The upright macaque manages to survive and begins propogation.
8. The international space station is caught in a space-time fissure created by nuclear resonance and the astronauts are sent into the future.
9. Planet of the Apes
What do we learn from all of this? You must make every possible effort to stop this launch!
This message will self destruct in 7.5 seconds. Have a nice day.