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Smart Glass Blocks Infrared - But Only When It's Hot

klevin writes "New Scientist has an article about a new way of making sheets of glass so they block infrared energy at temperatures above 29C (84.2F). Just so long as it doesn't have to get that hot on both sides of the glass. My AC comes on way before 84F. I suppose that with double or triple paned glass, you'd only treat the exterior pane."

18 of 303 comments (clear)

  1. 84 degrees is okay for some things. by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 4, Informative
    First poster brought up good points about toxicity... I'll address the temperature question.

    (sidenote: I guess there's a new geek test out on how to actually post to this story... the Read More link being wrong and everything...)

    84 degrees actually is pretty comfortable for people in the south, especially if it's going to be a dry 84 degrees, which air conditioning can help with. This can be useful, if it's not as expensive as gold, and if it really works as advertised, for people living in dry climates (read: desert southwest) who don't want to run A/C bills through the roof.

    That said, I recall that while a significant percentage of heat comes from solar energy through windows... when the house is sitting in a 110 degree plain, it may not be quite as good as first thought.

    1. Re:84 degrees is okay for some things. by hummassa · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where I live (Belo Horizonte, southwestern Brasil) 84F (29C) is room temperature 9 out of the 12 months of the year. In the northern states, it's 11/12. We usually only turn our ACs on at home when it's 37C (100F) and above.

      Notwithstanding, this is _great_ (if the yellow tint and the toxicity when broken issues are solved) for car windows. AC won't kick in as often (less gas spent), seats/steering wheel won't get ultra-hot when the vehicle is left under the sun (the beach!!), baby-left-in-the-car dehidration deaths won't happen.

      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  2. Well... by iamdrscience · · Score: 2, Informative
    My AC comes on way before 84F.
    Yes, but the surface of your glass is hotter than the air in your house/apartment, so 84 degrees might not be that far off.
  3. Re:Dye to change the color? by CapnGib · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is called color compensating. You tint with complementary colors to neutralize a color cast. Yes it will make the window appear a bit tinted as less total light gets through, but it would be less yellow.

    --
    Beauty is truly in the eye of the tiger
  4. Except in areas with exceptional solar exposure by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 3, Informative

    Imagine living in Nevada, where you get sun for more than 300 days a year, and most of those days are high quality 90F or higher sun.

    A solar home can only use so much.
    A trombe wall can only absorb so much.
    Even the new 10% transparent solar collectors can only do so much.

    What do you do with the excess heat?
    You run evaporative coolers and AC.

    The only other way to shed the excess heat is to absorb it (ala these panes or burying the house underground) or redirect it, with things like geothermal heat pumps.

  5. Re:solution by redJag · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, the point of activating it only when it's hot is for cold weather times. When it's cold outside, letting solar energy IN saves money; when it's hot outside, keeping it out saves money. Pumping in hot air would be a waste in three ways (heating the air, pumping the air, and negating the entire point of the treated glass).

  6. Re:Ok, cool... but by pclminion · · Score: 2, Informative
    It would be *really* cool if someone set something up that would absorb IR in the winter (like a dark roof) but not in the summer (light roof).

    No, you actually still want a light roof in winter. A black roof is a good absorber and a good radiator as well. In the winter, a black roof will radiate the heat out of your house more rapidly than it can heat up from the sun (since the radiant intensity is generally much lower in winter). You still want a light-colored, insulating roof, even in winter.

    In areas of the world that receive snowfall in winter, the snow on the roof is actually helping, by reflecting heat back into the building.

  7. Re:Ok, cool... but by ad0gg · · Score: 2, Informative
    Thats why there are vents on the top of your roof and the bottom of the roof. When your roof gets hot, there's nice airflow going on as the colder air is sucked through the bottom vents and exits through the top. If you house is getting hot because of the roof. Your vents could be blocked.

    In cold weather, it still wouldn't make sense since it would require you to remove the insulation layer which in turn would cause heat to escape from the house. Only solution I could think of is skylights but unless the insulation factor increases on them dramatically, they'll never have the insulation value of a foot fiberglass.

    --

    Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

  8. Re:How useful is that? by dbrower · · Score: 2, Informative
    Most of the heat that comes into your house will do so by conduction from the air by the window to the glass to the air by the window, then get carried around by convection. It won't get in by radiation,

    Wrong. Solar gain from radiation is a significant factor in design. See for instance this, or this, or this, or this.

    Convection/Conduction are certainly at issue when there isn't sun (say, Seattle or Syracuse), but when there is, the radiation transmission is a major factor. This new technology sounds very promising. And yes, deciduous trees planted in good spots are a good low-tech approach.

    -dB

    --
    "It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
  9. Re:Conservation of energy by dbrower · · Score: 2, Informative
    It'll be bounced outside to be absorbed by the rest of the environment. Pretend the building isn't there - the sun is going to hit anyway, so it's not much different unless you have a convex building with a focus.

    If the film is on the inside pane to prevent it from environmental damage, then there will be two passes through the outer pane, which can warm up the gas between the panes, leading ultimately to convection/conduction gain. Coating the outside would be most effective, if it weren't fragile.

    -dB

    --
    "It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
  10. This is odd by GCP · · Score: 2, Informative

    One of the reasons rooms get so hot is that ordinary glass is already blocking a lot of infrared--from getting out. Non-infrared (ordinary visible) light comes through easily and strikes whatever is inside. In doing so, it heats it, so a portion of the visible light is converted to infrared. But, since the glass isn't very permeable to infrared, it can't get out, so the inside space heats up.

    This innovation will make it even harder for infrared to get out, but it also reduces the infrared that gets in. So the question is whether the inside heats up more with visible light converted to infrared that can't get out at all, or visible plus some infrared converted to even more infrared that can get out a little bit.

    I suppose they've done the experiment, but it's not obvious to me which one would be superior or by how much.

    --
    "Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
    1. Re:This is odd by fizzup · · Score: 2, Informative

      Glass has a cutoff for transmittance of wavelengths longer than about 3000nm. The sun, at 6000 Kelvins, radiates a lot in the 700nm - 3000nm range, which is just infrared of visible. Your room, at about 300 Kelvins produces a lot less radiation, and most of it is in the far infrared (peak at around 8000nm) that glass doesn't transmit at all. This coating probably reduces transmittance of the near infrared, and you just have to put up with the default behaviour of glass not transmitting the far infrared.

  11. Re:Safe? Lifespan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Not an ideal solution, but take a hose to your "hot" wall. The water evaporates and hopefully the heat blows away in the breeze instead of just baking your house and everything inside.

    It works, even if not very well, and it's relatively cheap. Not something you want to do every day forever but on a couple of those screaming hot summer days it works well enough.

  12. Re:I thought visible light was the problem by deathazre · · Score: 2, Informative

    no, visible light turns into heat when it strikes and is absorbed by an object, as does IR. Transmitting more IR would just make the insides hotter.

    --
    Karma: Negative (Mostly affected by dorm trolling)
  13. Re:Temperature of Glass by wanerious · · Score: 3, Informative

    When you touch your bathroom tile, it typically feels colder than the surrounding air. This is not because the tile is somehow cooled with respect to its surroundings, but because the tile is much more efficient at carrying away heat from your body. An air temperature of 70 degrees F can feel very comfortable, since air is a very poor conductor of heat, but 70 F water feels decidedly cool to the skin. Having said that, it still may be the case that your window is cooler or hotter than the inside of your house since it is the boundary between zones --- in fact, this is very likely, since glass is a much better heat conductor than the surrounding walls.

  14. Re:can be used in cars by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Informative
    For example: I would LOVE to have a cartop solar cell harnessed to a fan helping to cool the car

    You mean like Audi's "Warm Weather Package"?
    • Solar sunroof (operates fresh air fan when parked in sun)
    • Power rear window and manual rear side window sunshades

    Granted.
    --
    You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  15. It's safe by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Vanadium is a common alloying element in steel. The two MSDS pages I found indicate that the powdered oxide isn't very good to breathe or eat, but the amount released by breaking a window is probably so small that you wouldn't notice. The biggest hazard would be to people working in the manufacture of such windows.

  16. Re:It should work by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Note that normal glass blocks IR already.

    Wrong. It blocks some IR. It certinaly doesn't block the IR nearer the red spectrum (rather than heat). If it did, I wouldn't be able to take IR photos with my camera.