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Munich to Go Ahead with Linux After All
Saeed al-Sahaf writes "According to Groklaw and the German publication Heise (it's in German, of course) Munich's mayor Christian Ude has held a press conference, in which he said that the bidding process for the switch from Windows to Linux will go forward as originally planned, despite patent issues. InfoWorld (in English), quotes Bernd Plank, a spokesman for Munich town hall, saying that he expected that the administration would take a maximum of 'two to three weeks' to decide whether the EU's Directive on software patents could affect the city's plan to switch to Linux, and that would be no 'dramatic setback.'" We reported this earlier as well, but now that it's making the rounds again in English, more of us can read it without resorting to Babelfish.
Did Microsoft not lower their prices enough at the mention of them going to Linux?
Would the city of Munich care about the UE software patents issues ?
Is it absolutely necessary to have a sig. ?
What the hell fun is that?
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ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
The more organizations deploy Linux, the lower the cost will become for further deployments. For example Munich will use VMWare while slowly porting their special Win-only software to Linux.
The next generation will do without VMWare and will lower the cost to migrate to Linux.
Oh, and I might add that 5 cities in Bavaria are also thinking in joining Munich directly.
Also, in 3-4 years, if any hardware company will want to sell hardware to Europe or Asia, it will have to provide Linux drivers which will be beneficial for ALL Linux users.
Finaly someone has the common sense to ditch m$. It's about damn time if you ask me.
Before you bring up some of the standard arguments in defense of software patents, please read the FAQ. There is a lot more good analysis in that section. For an easier to understand example of how software patents affect real world applications - a big reason many small businesses oppose them - look at the webshop demo.
It's german.
This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
Der fingerpoken filterin Unix tochen English softranslaten Deutch offen. Sour kraut.
All they're doing is re-opening the bidding process. Not the actual migration.
From TFA:
Mayor Ude, who said he's been thinking it over for a few days, says there will be a legal study completed by Autumn concerning the migration, and if it looks safe, they will go forward and meanwhile the bidding begins.
With any luck, this will crystallise the issues surrounding software patents more clearly in Euro MPs minds and make them think about more than Microsoft et al's bottom line. Indeed, looks like Munich is really pushing that bit:
He also announced that the city is going to request a legal study on the question of what consequences the EU-directive on the patentability of "computer-implemented inventions" will have in the current version of the Council of Ministers's proposed law.
(All emphasis mine)
now that it's making the rounds again in English, more of us can read it without resorting to Babelfish
Unless of course, you don't speak English...and you read and resond to slashdot through babelfish.
I just expressed my respect to those people a minute ago. It takes a lot of courage to do this, having Microsoft Germany in your city and all that...
m l and put in your thanks!
If you want to show them respect, go to http://www.muenchen.de/home/81124/contact_form.ht
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Two Worlds - One Sun [Spirit]
i forgot where i read this, probably linux today or here at slashdot. but apparently the guy who stalled the linux implementation because of the patent problem is in the Green Party which is very much for open source and against software patents.
the article suggests that stopping the linux roll out and citing software patents as a roadblock was a way to wake up the government and public to get them to see why software patents is a bad idea
Mr. Bunbury took deathly ill at an unspecified location in the country, and perished just as the importance of being ernest was fully understood. /. icon.
He will be missed. Truly a
So the Munich Greens thought that having a small temper trantrum about the patent trheat in Linux would have an effect. Instead, they discovered that all they'd done was shoot themselves in the foot.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
So now what happens? The city government takes the same gun, and shoots itself in the other foot. "No, Linux is still threatened by software patents, but...uh...well...we're going to go aghead with the bidding because...we're going to ignore the threat we tried to blackmail all of Europe with." Yeah, that's the ticket, boys -- make it intentionaly infringement. Right.
Somebody send these guys a clue, please?
Mod up. This is exactly correct.
Damnit, babelfish doesn't have a "bork bork bork to english" translator!
-nova20
Black October email threat to take linux or bust worked after all, what do you know.
I agree that this is a great step forward for Linux, and can have some profound effects.
At the same time, I wonder how many people that work with these computers on a daily basis are confused/frustrated about the transition. I wonder how they'll feel about 3 months after the transition.
I just know at my office, any kind of deviation from a working norm is frowned upon.
~D
This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
I hope for Linux's sake that the community gives Munich some special attention/aid if they decide to migrate and that whoever they have doing the migration knows what they're doing.
Imagine the field day Microsoft will have if the project goes over budget or outright fails!
I still say you have to throw the cost argument right out the window though. In the end, organizations will pay a premium for quality support/service and applications that play nice together easily. That is the biggest challenge Linux has to overcome before it can truly stand toe to toe with Microsoft.
With the trouble the US has had with Europe, this very well might be political. Microsoft is a very big US company and switching from Microsoft to identityless software may improve the mood of some Europeans. This is not a unfounded belief. Korea-Japan-China initiative to develop an alternative OS was to depend less on the US software industry. The result was Red Flag Linux.
I thought "bork bork bork" was the swedish stereotype thingy, not german :O
'Ve vere invited. Punch vas served. Check vit Poland.'
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
We reported this earlier as well, but now that it's making the rounds again in English, more of us can read it without resorting to Babelfish.
mmmh, that means it will be posted again when it will be published in spanish, and then in italian, and then in french, etc. etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideshow_Bob/ www.fact-index.com/s/si/sideshow_bob.html/ www.anvari.org/fortune/Simpsons_Subtle_Allu sions/13.html
http:/
http:/
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
there was an article while ago somewhere that most german it projects ended up failing
maybe this is another evidence why that keeps happening
apparently they just can't make up their mind wheter to go one way or another and end up stuck in the switching process
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
Moderators: is it really funny, and not redundant, to make these same jokes every single time Germany is mentioned?
Yes, they talk differently (from y'all).
Yes, you shot at them in the 1940s.
No, this is not doing your public image in Europe any damned good!
Attention, K-Mart Shoppers! Over in the aisle marked 'Asia', you'll find lovely gift-wrapped editions of "entry-level" XP OS for Windows-based machines. Do your Christmas shopping early! Pick up an extra copy for those unexpected guests! Excellent stocking stuffer! Fine print here (always read the fine print):
they might have a long-range clue. this dilemma raises the issue of software patents in a stark way *now*, while policy is still being formed.
can you imagine trying to roll back software patents *after* they've been absorbed into the consciousness (and bottom line) of the german economy?
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Cheers,
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
That's like the question "when did you stop beating your wife?", which simply plants the idea in everybody's head that the person questioned did, in fact, beat his wife.
The fact is that Linux does not have any more or less "patent issues" than any other OS: nobody who develops software and has good legal advice will try to do background searches on patents. Instead, the rational thing to do is to develop the software and then see who complains. As a result, just about every major piece of software infringes on lots of patents.
Given that Linux source code is out in the open, any patent holder who believes that their patent is being infringed can complain, and as soon as they do, the infringing code will be removed from Linux and life will go on.
Everyone's focused on Europe and America. The battle of MSFT and SCOX and patent.
Not paying any attention to China and Korea. China has the man (and woman) power to develop and manufacture their own processors. And they're already switching over to Red Flag. At some point, companies on both sides will have to exchange documents in a format that is intra-compatible. More than likely, American companies will convert their documents to something the Chinese can use, negating MSFT Office's proprietary format. The only way MSFT could combat this, directly and in their current spirit, is by not allowing conversions from within Office or Windows.
I honestly believe China will bail us out of this whole mess. Just give them a bit more time; they're industrious people.
What a transparent attempt to get cheaper GPL licensing terms from Stallman and the FSF!
Germany probably demanded something extreme, like perpetual access to source code.
Cool. Similarly I think there's humour in the Fawlty Tours sketch (though certain kinds of people seem to miss that Basil's the figure of fun and all the sympathy is with the diners). Excuse my being personal, though, but does your wife like to be called Kraut and reminded of Blitzkrieg (or however he spelt it)?
Well, to give you a hint: she calls me Hunnybun. I call her Bunny-Hun.
Get the picture? ;-)
Sure, some Germans (mostly northern Germans) have had their sense of humor surgically removed. But most that I know have a pretty black sense of humor, too.
Cheers,
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
Don't bother, it's really not. At least if you are range sighted beyond 10 feet and 6 months! Otherwise, you would be right. Why think about the future? There is so much to mess up today!
Actually my experience is the opposite, having been funded by a large company in Berlin (where I found people very open) and then spending a lot of time in Bavaria these past five years... I guess that explains a lot though ;)
If they'd had a single clue to rub together, much less two, they'd have gone about this in a different way. What they've done is make themselves worse off. First, they tried to blackmail Europe with one small politically-motivated project in one city. Then, when the EU called their bluff, they turn around and say, basically, "Didn't mean it! Don't worry, we were just trying to scare you." That's not going to stop software patents in Europe. It only makes the opponents of software patents look foolish and out of touch with reality. (Of course, that could be said of the Greens in general, but...)
The city could have done much better. For instance, Munich could have applied to the EC asking for a grandfather clause in the patent legislation, arguing that the current proposal essentially criminalizes acts which were legal at the time they were committed. Alternatively, after their first stunt, they could have recovered by saying: "No, we haven't stopped the process indefinitely, we're waiting for this committee to report to reopen bidding." Instead, they're reopening bidding with some vague contingency that they'll stop if the committee reports the wrong way.
So, somebody please send these guys a clue. I'm told that air freight is really cheap these days.
Who cares. So Munich decided for about 3 or 4 days to put a stop to Linux deployment. Who cares! Does this warrant that much attention? Is the world coming to an end? Find something interesting.
No, this is not doing your public image in Europe any damned good!
Take it easy. The stupid joke works in both directions: it sounds equally hilarious for german speaking people as for english speakers. I don't think that any German minds the blinkenlight jokes. I'm only an Austrian, but after all we bred Hitler, so I think my opinion on this subject still counts.
No need to get pissed because they were not made useless/unenforcable by a change, but knowingly made useless/unenforcable in the hopes that they will be changed to usefull/enforcable. There is no guarentee that these useless/unenforcable extra-legal software patents will become usefull or enforceable if or when the EU law changes to permit them.
These people are gambling when they got their "patents".
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons being assembled immediately to accept and hail the new Finnish territory, henceforth to be called Linuch.
This will cause the open source community to replace the tired old patented ideas with new innovative algorithms and user interfaces that advance computing for the common good of mankind. And as a benefit, Microsoft won't be allowed to use these ideas in their products! The future is bright indeed.
...one of the skits on the drew carey show "who's line is it anyway?". The skit was the german version of "who wants to be a filthy stinking rich millionaire". No matter the questions, "INVADE POLAND!" Was always one of the answers in the multiple choice.
they probably snagged the idea though.... it was still pretty funny
Poland had no allies in 1939. At least no allies in 'active' mode.
Poland had allies in 1939, but they were three years too late. By 1939 Poland was encircled (with Czechoslovakia chopped up and Nazi or Soviet puppet states being set up around it).
Just following the invasion of Poland, Britain and France declared war on Germany. Supplies (limited) were dropped to the Poles by air & the Polish Air Force and government evacuated to London. What shocked Britain and France however was the simultaneous Soviet invasion - which meant ground support for Poland would have been insane. France and Britain were going into overdrive building up their defences: ok, this didn't work for France but if the Battle of Britain had been lost, America's intervention may never have occured, or might have failed.
Yes, without the backing of then isolationist America, the Entente Cordial betrayed Czechoslovakia. Poland they backed up.
Of course, if America had stepped in in 1939 (or 1937 or better still, financially, in the 1920s by meaningfully writing off war reparations) then it could have been a different story. But the real villans of the piece were the Soviets (after the Nazis, obviously). No wonder they let the Warsaw Uprising be crushed in 1944; independent politicians couldn't be tolerated in the Soviet sphere of influence...
Damn it. There went my excuse for not R'ing TFA...
...oh...wait. I didn't need an excuse, after all!
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
As an auzzy, who lived in Krautland since he had been 5, let me tell you this:
Berlin is NOT north Germany, and one can tell you didn't even get out of Berlin, as you would have noticed this right away.
Besides, Bavaria is a story of its own. Are you aware, that Bavaria is actually (legally) its own republic?
Insightful, my ass.
This was incredibly smart as they are now producing a legal report that the goverment will have to act upon, thus derailing the European directive to approve software patents as unanimity is likely to be needed on the Commission.
They have not admitted to the existence of any patents that affect Linux, but rather have stated that it is a troubling issue that needs to be examined.
This was very shrewed. They raised public awareness, will get the city's legal department to produce a patent-unfriendly report which will be elevated to the German national government, which will then adopt a no-patents European position at the Comission.
The trees not letting you see the forest?
Pragmatism as an ideology is not particularly pragmatic in the long term. Keep it in mind when you dismiss Free Software
I think that Munich is doing more than just what is best for their network. They have been in a bright, global spotlight since the news that they rejected Microsoft's offer broke, and they are now in a very favorable position to set an example for other city and state governments, (national?), to migrate and stand up to the Giant's licnesing trap.
I for one, welcome our new open source leaders...
One of Linux's large benefactors needs to step up and protect Linux under the aegis of their existing patent portfolio, with some kind of cross-licensing arrangement. Or HP or IBM buys Novell to the same effect. If they care enough about screwing Microsoft to the wall they will need to protect linux (define it somehow) in this manner eventually.
Software patents have gotten out of hand but at least linux has a godfather or two that can and should step in to defend it. IBM or HP should make some announcement about cross licensing some patents to linux dispel the evil spin being applied to linux in the current press. A small portfolio of patents that is enough to make Microsoft or anyone hoping to attach linux on patent grounds realize their own weaknesses and want to avoid endless retaliatory patent litigation.
I thought "bork bork bork" was the swedish stereotype thingy, not german :O
OK, you caught me... but German just isn't as funny.
Um geesh de bork, bork!
-nova20
Wo liegen die Modpunkten wann man sie braucht?
rj
Yeah, no, absolutely - that's what I mean about explaining a lot ;)
(Actually, as it goes, I do know the non-Bavarian South, but you're right about my not knowing the North...)
Um, you do realize "Sauerkraut" is a pretty common German word? Now sit back und watchen das Blinkenlichten.
Unlike "Sour kraut", which makes it clear that we were reading the term of racist abuse, not the foodstuff (from which that term is derived).
Unless the original poster wasn't German, in which case he could very well have used the English "sour" instead of the German "Sauer" and still refer to the foodstuff. Googling for "Sour kraut", most of the first 10 matches are recipes, so I'd say this is pretty common.
You have a point (he certainly wasn't German, there was error after error). I wouldn't have thought one would put a space in, even mis-spelled, but you're right about Google too... except for Sour Kraut @ Blogspot (apparently "Less Whiney than Your Average Jews"), all are recipe sites (and .com and .org, so maybe it's just a European misjudgement I'm making).
Seriously, I wish I hadn't picked up on this particular post (it wasn't the worst and I don't expect the guy is actually racist, any more than most, but that knee-jerk reaction of 'ooh, look, it's an article about Germany let's post some of the old jokes' really gets annoying the more I read this board) - my reason for doing so was (as a re-hash of a re-hash) that there was definitely grounds to mod it down (redundancy).
Unfortunately, instead of having a way to mod down petty racism on the board, instead I've been more than once modded up for pointing it out... and nothing changes...
How about using Knoppix?
Everything is political. Don't be a fool.