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Congressional Budget Office Studies Copyrights

gorbachev writes "C|Net is reporting that The Congressional Budget Office has published a study on digital copyright issues. The study basically recommends not changing the copyright legislation in favor of any particular stakeholder, including consumers or lobbyists. It's refreshing to see a governmental agency coming out with a study on copyright issues that appears to take consumers' concerns into consideration." Granted, this is merely the CBO, not Congress itself, but it is one of Congress' first places to turn to for information.

36 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. That's nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...now how about looking at software patents?

  2. duh? by wyldeone · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The study basically recommends not changing the copyright legislation in favor of any particular stakeholder

    uh, duh? Our government is pretty pathetic if it needs a study to tell it to be fair and balanced.

    --
    In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.
    1. Re:duh? by snarkh · · Score: 4, Funny
      uh, duh? Our government is pretty pathetic if it needs a study to tell it to be fair and balanced.

      I thought fair and balanced was the prerogative of the Fox News channel.

    2. Re:duh? by gid13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I fail to see how "fair and balanced" equates to "not siding with either consumers or lobbyists".

      As far as I see it, consumers should take precedence in almost all cases, and copyright is no exception.

    3. Re:duh? by xoboots · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I think that the government is a mere reflection of its citizens because it's pretty sad when someone makes a movie about eating at McDonalds and getting fat and the people rave about it.

      That's not sad--what's sad is that there is a NEED to make such a movie. Its sad that people can't connect the dots on their own. Its sad how stupid many people are willing to be--even WANT to be. It is also sad that some people truly believe that government is a reflection of its citizens. If that was ever true, it certainly isn't now. For one thing, it assumes that citizens are basically the same and that each wield the same power, which is ludicrous.

    4. Re:duh? by Bull999999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry, here's the link for the moive Super Size Me. The government DID NOT make this movie.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    5. Re:duh? by alptraum · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I never saw the film, however I honestly think it was a good idea, it hopefully awoken atleast a few people to the health risks of eating fast food.

      Now yes, I'm vegetarian and haven't touched burgers and frys and the like in years and you may know better too, but does the general populus know? Obviously not looking at the increasing waist sizes of Americans. Go to sit-down restaurants, the portions have absolutely ballooned in size, most restaurants serve entrees with enough for 2-3 people, and that's just dinner alone, not counting appetizers and desert, I have no idea how people can eat that much.

      To me, it would seem that after a while you would catch yourself, you'd wake up one day and wow, boy am I fat or your health starts to seriously degrade and you'd start thinking about all those Big Macs, but obviously not.

      The obvious, obviously isn't obvious enough for many.

    6. Re:duh? by Daniel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Go to sit-down restaurants, the portions have absolutely ballooned in size, most restaurants serve entrees with enough for 2-3 people, and that's just dinner alone, not counting appetizers and desert, I have no idea how people can eat that much.

      You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Think "three meals for the price of one". :-)

      Daniel

      --
      Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
  3. Not quite accurate ... by URSpider · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The study basically recommends not changing the copyright legislation in favor of any particular stakeholder, including consumers or lobbyists.


    That's not entirely accurate. The preface to the study states that the GAO, by definition, does not make any policy recommendations. Thus, the lack of recommendations in the study does not mean that the data contained in it won't be used by one side or the other to push for change.


    Gotta read those source documents before submitting!

    1. Re:Not quite accurate ... by cicadia · · Score: 4, Informative
      To be entirely accurate, the preface doesn't say anything about the GAO. It's the Congressional Budget Office releasing this, not the General Accounting Office.

      Also, regardless of what they claim about making official policy recommendations, they certainly do make recommendations:

      (from the source document)

      Revisions to copyright law should be made without regard to the vested interests of particular business and consumer groups. Instead, they should be assessed with regard to their consequences for efficiency in markets for creative works and other products.

      An inability to make official policy recommendations shouldn't be taken to imply that they can't express any opinion at all.

      --
      Living better through chemicals
  4. Might have been even better... by rben · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they had pointed out that copyright terms have been extended to the point where they are ridiculous and that maybe that trend needs to be reversed.

    --

    -All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
    www.ra

  5. Nothing Wrong Here by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny
    CBO examines digital copyright issues:

    Moe: "See anything, boys?"
    Curly: "I don't see nuttin'"
    Larry: "You're supposed to open your eyes."
    Curly: "But if I do, I might see something that upsets me!"
    Larry: "What could upset you?"
    Curly: "Computer mice! Nyuk nyuk nyuk!"
    Moe: "You knucklehead *smek* we're supposed to be finding anything wrong!"
    Larry: "There's nothing wrong with this (holds up fold-out pin-up girl, Miss CBO 2003)"
    All: *wolfwhistle* "There's nothing at all wrong with that!"
    Moe: "Then it's agreed, we find nothing wrong at all wrong with anything, let's leave our findings and get back to painting this room."
    Larry: "Yeah, that committee that left us in charge should be back from their lunch with all those 'good friends' any time now."

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  6. Nothing to see here, move along by harpoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So what?

    This means nothing, they change nothing and make no concrete recommendations. The merely recommended a "set of principles" with the goal of "avoiding being tied too closely to past practices"

    Speaking of real change check out: On Drawing Lines in Copyright Law
    about copyright, RIAA and the cirsumstances leading to 321 Studio's "Death of a 1000 Paper Cuts"

  7. Patents? by DaveInAustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can we get a CBO recommendation on patents too? Patents were supposed to give people an incentive to invent. Instead, they are a disincentive. Anyone who actually creates something worthwhile risks being sued for infringement of frivolous patents.
    - Raise the application fee so that the patent office can do a decent job. - Shorten the length of the software / business process patents (better yet, ban them).ation fee so that the patent office can do a decent job.
    - Shorten the length of the software / business process patents (better yet, ban them).

    --
    --- http://davidnehme.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Patents? by wyldeone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      - Raise the application fee so that the patent office can do a decent job.
      <p>
      I must dissagree on this count. Raising the application fee puts patenting solely in the domain of the corporate r+d labs. It would keep garage inventors and other small time inventors out of the process.

      --
      In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.
    2. Re:Patents? by Alsee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Raise the application fee so that the patent office can do a decent job.

      No, no need to raise those fees. All you need to do is stop the siphoning off of those fees.

      Polititians found that they could fund unpopular or pork projects without needing to get a new tax passed by skimming "profits" from places like the patent office. Of course any alledged "profits" are then unavailble to pay patent examiners. And of course those "profits" available for skimming can be arbitrarily expanded by reducing the amount paid to examine and process patents. Those "profits" are also expanded by encouraging more patent applications. You can encourage increased applications by increasing the range of what can be patented and by lowering standards to get an application approved.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  8. Where were these guys in 1996? by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I would totally agree, if this were published 8 years ago. "Classic" copyright was just fine.

    But I'd recommend rolling back some of the goofy stuff (especially 1201) before I'd call for maintaining the status quo. The status quo is already unbalanced by relatively recent thoughtless meddling.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  9. The only trouble... by tkrotchko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Today's status quo is not good for consumers. Copyright terms are far too long.

    I'd personally like to see a differentiation between corporate copyrights (short) to personal copyrights (longer, but shorter than present).

    Its a sad day when just keeping the current unfavorable copyright laws are considered a "win" by the voters.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:The only trouble... by adjuster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Today's status quo is not good for consumers. Copyright terms are far too long.

      I'd personally like to see a differentiation between corporate copyrights (short) to personal copyrights (longer, but shorter than present).

      Copyright takes ideas and works away from general use and duplication by society for the good of the copyright holder-- presumably to the ultimate benefit of society. If we're going to have long terms for copyright, the copyright holder needs to give back to society throughout the term.

      Lots of ideas have been floated-- copyright renewal fees (potentially increasing as the term grows), automatic return to the public domain if works are no longer sold or "maintained", shorter terms for specific types of work, etc. I don't know what the "answer" is, but I think that it's vitally important that these proposals for "revision" to copyright become the fodder of discussion with lawmakers, not just between concerned citizens / geeks on Slashdot .

      Its a sad day when just keeping the current unfavorable copyright laws are considered a "win" by the voters.

      The public needs to be more involved, and better informed. If we, the concerned few, can figure out how to get the strength of public ire behind us-- e.g. if we can really make the public see how evil the copyright cartels are, we might just get somewhere. We need to work to teach the public the truth-- that copyright infringement is not "piracy", that the public's opinion of what copyright should be should define what copyright is, and that there are business models we haven't even thought of yet that can work for compensation content creators w/o requiring the leeches that are the "publishing industry" to exert their "tax" on the system.

      --
      The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
  10. Prediction for the future by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given the choices outlined in the news article (do nothing or set government royalty schedules) the current government is going to do nothing, favoring the free market approach. I think that anyone can see that coming.

    I don't think that anyone is afraid of piracy so much that they will accept government royalty schedules.

    --
    No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
  11. Consumers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's refreshing to see a governmental agency coming out with a study on copyright issues that appears to take consumers' concerns into consideration."

    It would be more refreshing to be acknowledged by the government as a citizen and not an entity that merely spends money.

  12. Copyright Classic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Classic" copyright was just fine

    They coked you.

    In the late 20th century, mankind considered getting rid of copyright, in favor of the "information age." The powers that be, introduce New Copyright (DMCA). Everyone hates it. So a little while later, they can introduce Copyright Classic and totally rake it in, thanks to the nostalgic backlash. Instead of advocating copyright reform or abolishion, you're advocating a return to the old ways. Got you.

  13. Just in time, too! by theluckyleper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, after Mickey Mouse and Sonny Bono have had their pokes, and the DMCA has been enacted... NOW they decide "no more changing the copyright legislation"?!

    Isn't this a little LATE?!

    --
    Visit the Game Programming Wiki!
    1. Re:Just in time, too! by Patrick · · Score: 4, Interesting
      So, after Mickey Mouse and Sonny Bono have had their pokes, and the DMCA has been enacted... NOW they decide "no more changing the copyright legislation"?!

      Isn't this a little LATE?!

      What, you think Congress was done passing copyright-related legislation? If this recommendation prevents the Hollings bill, the INDUCE Act, Congressional endorsement of the broadcast flag, or any of the other proposals on the table now/recently, it will still be useful.

      I'd love to see the DMCA and the CTEA (the Sonny Bono act) repealed, but stopping future copyright madness is still better than nothing.

    2. Re:Just in time, too! by Aidtopia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Those of us who are arguing for revisions of copyright law need to stop using Mickey Mouse as the example. Without the Sono Bono copyright extension, Mickey Mouse would not have entered the public domain. The cartoon the Mickey debuted in, Steamboat Willie, would have entered the public domain, not the mouse himself.

      What's the difference? Well, for one, Mickey Mouse is also protected as a trademark. If Steamboat Willie had become public domain, then you could have probably distributed copies of the original cartoon or used small bits of it in a larger work without getting Disney's approval. But you'd quickly be in hot water if you created and distributed a "new" Mickey Mouse cartoon, since Disney could rightly argue that you're infringing their trademark.

      Furthermore, Disney could claim that a new Mickey Mouse cartoon is a derivative of one of their more recent Mickey Mouse cartoons that is still within the copyright period. I suppose this would be a gray area. I've never heard a discussion of how copyright terms apply to a series of works that are derivatives of each other. Certainly the newer works are entitled to their full copyright term even after the original one expires. So unless the hypothetical new cartoon was demonstrably a derivative solely of Steamboat Willie and nothing newer, Disney could make a case.

    3. Re:Just in time, too! by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Without the Sono Bono copyright extension, Mickey Mouse would not have entered the public domain

      That sentence is incorrect. Words like "Windows" and "Apple" are in the public domain, even though they're also trademarked in some contexts. "Public Domain" is not applicable to trademarks one way or the other.

      you'd quickly be in hot water if you created and distributed a "new" Mickey Mouse cartoon, since Disney could rightly argue that you're infrin

      It's only trademark infringement if you induce consumer confusion as to the provider of a good. Slapping "Not authorized by or affliated with the Walt Disney Corporation" on top will keep you perfectly protected.

      Today unauthorized authors write non-fiction books on TV series like Star Trek or Buffy Vampire Slayer, or software like Oracle and Excel. It's legal for them to use the name of the show/product in their title, as long as purchasers are unconfused as to provenance (and no other copyright infringement is happening, beyond fair use)

      But if the new author refuses to sully his title page like that, then you get into unexplored legal territory. Disney could make the same trademark argument you did, but the author could respond that (a) the company is "Disney", not "Mickey Mouse", and (b) interpreting trademarks that way renders the expiration of copyright meaningless, which was not the intent.

      Back a few centuries when the concepts of copyright and trademark were first created, individual characters of a fictional work weren't trademarked. Now, Mickey Mouse and Luke Skywalker have changed all that (following the lead, actually, of Raggedy Ann)

      I've never heard a discussion of how copyright terms apply to a series of works that are derivatives of each other.

      It's pretty simple, and just as you'd predict. The newer works are fully protected, the older ones are not. For obvious practical examples, look at most any Disney movie. The copyright on Hercules expired 3700 years ago, but that has no effect either on Disney's Hercules or Kevin Sorbo.

      There is a risk, of course. An artist who intends to only derive from the older PD work may inadvertently have taken in concepts from later versions. That could lead to some nasty lawsuits focusing on subtlties. For example, if the Sonny Bono extension hadn't passed, then Superman would be public domain today. But the original Superman couldn't fly (only "leap tall buildings").

      So if the creator of a new Superman story makes him fly, then he's vulnerable... the argument "I decided to add flying to the original version, because it was a sensible change" could work, but it'd enrich both sides' lawyers.

  14. More of the same... nothing changes... by adjuster · · Score: 5, Informative

    I haven't read the entire paper-- but I did skip right to Section 4, to see the "conclusions", and read that in some detail. I love this bit (below), from section 4, describing the "Effects on Equity" in revising copyright law in favor of the copyright holder:

    In the near term, copyright owners would benefit at the expense of consumers. However, if the additional revenues to copyright owners enabled creators to undertake more projects, consumers could also benefit from the greater availability of creative works in the long term.

    Yes-- I'm sure the copyright holders would "undertake more projects". Oh-- and, certainly, those works are going to available in the "long term"-- or at least until they're not so profitable as to be sold anymore, at which time they'll be allowed to "fall out of print", will become unavailable to anyone, and will be "protected" for another 100 years (at which time the media they're stored on, and the compression and encryption algorithms used to encode and encrypt them will probably be vastly outdated and outmodded).

    The public grants copyright as a social contract to the creators of content. It is a CONTRACT, and it "goes both ways"-- or rather, it did, in the United States, under the original terms of copyright set forth in the Constitution. The amalgamation of shit we have today bears little to no resemblence to the "founder's copyright", and is skewed heavily in favor of the copyright holders.

    Copyright is granted BY THE PEOPLE. If we don't like the current copyright system-- if we want to "trade music files", or download movies "P2P"-- if the public really belives that's the right thing, we need to CHANGE THE FUCKING LAW.

    Personally, I believe it's time for the contract to be renegotiated. Public outcry is a good start. Tell your friends, tell your coworkers. Talk to them about the DMCA and the abuses we've all seen. Talk to them about the efforts, past and present, to outlaw digital versions of technologies that are "protected uses" of analog technologies. Talk about "broadcast flags", and "fair use".

    --
    The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
  15. So let me see if I got this straight... by intnsred · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the report says do nothing. Ignore the fact that the public domain is slowly drying up as Corporate America constantly lengthens copyrights. Ignore the fact that we have college students getting sued by giant mega-corporations for swapping a song with some friends. Ignore the issues of concern and don't make any major decisions, right?

    So in a nutshell, this report is sort of like the 9/11 Commission's report: "Nothing seriously wrong here, let's just talk about it to placate the public and then the public will go back to debating which Superbowl commercial is better..."

    1. Re:So let me see if I got this straight... by adjuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the report says do nothing. Ignore the fact that the public domain is slowly drying up as Corporate America constantly lengthens copyrights. Ignore the fact that we have college students getting sued by giant mega-corporations for swapping a song with some friends. Ignore the issues of concern and don't make any major decisions, right?

      And that's where we need to come in. If these things really are important to you, talk to other people about them, organize an effort to communicate with your lawmakers, and try to affect some change.

      I speak with anyone who will listen, IRL, about issues of "intellectual property" and copyright. I think we need "Joe Sixpack" to understand that the things he does today, w/ his VCR, aren't going to be possible in just a few years. Cases like the Wisconsin high school 'prom' that gave out burned CD's tell me that the public is really under-informed, and there are opportunities for education.

      The RIAA / MPAA / copyright cartels are using this ignorance to brainwash the public into believing that the system as it is today-- the one that force-feeds consumers crap, strips them of their fair use and first sale rights, and defauds artists and creators of their negotiated compensation-- is the only one that can exist. We need to be informing people that current system of copyright isn't "just how it is", and that they have a say in changing it.

      --
      The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
  16. Ok then.... by LordZardoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the study does do is put into reasonably plain english (Or legal jargon that can be translated into reasonably plain english), the likely cause / effect consequences of various legal changes.

    If we do X, then Y is likely to happen, which in turn results in Z.

    Now all we need to do is come up with some sort of copyright scheme that manages to do all of the following:

    1) Provides the best possible benefit for consumers.
    2) Provides the most reasonable compensation for copyright holders.
    3) Causes the least possible harm to copyright holder, consumers, and technology creators.

    The problem with attempts to acheive the above goals, as I see it, is that 'best possible benefit for consumers' and 'least possible harm' is not guaranteed to be something that can be boiled down to a dollar value. Also, ultimately, the reasonable amount of compensation for IP is ultimately determined by the consumers who consume or not consume copyrighted works.

    So while this is far from providing any answers, it does help us arrive at the correct questions.

    END COMMUNICATION

  17. RIAA is the tail that wags the dog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Found this interesting... the RIAA is the one doing all the suing, legal nastiness, etc... but here's a quote from TFA...

    [i]The gross revenues of the core copyright industries totaled $441.4 billion in 2002 and were distributed as shown in Figure 1-1. Nearly a third of that total ($143.4 billion) came from the newspaper, periodical, and book publishing industries. [b]The music industry[/b], which generated $13.9 billion in gross revenues in 2002, [b]is the smallest segment[/b]. (See Box 1-1 for details on the interpretation of data on gross revenues.) [/i]
    (emphasis mine)
    The "Box 1-1" referred to is here: http://www.cbo.gov/docimages/573801.gif

  18. They got one thing right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They noticed that copyright holders have already gotten "something for nothing" from the consumers with the expansion of copyright terms.

    From the standpoint of equity, the effects of revising copyright law in favor of consumers of creative material would be to transfer control from copyright owners to consumers. However, for some incumbent copyright holders, losses suffered from diminished control over their creative works may already have been compensated, at least in part, by recent legislation that extended the duration of copyright protection.

    --AC

  19. Not as benign as it looks on the surface by norbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you read the article carefully, you'll notice how they stress that the fair use rights aren't really rights and should be decided by courts on case-by-case basis. There is a fairly illuminating analysis of legality of ripping CDs in there for instance. In general the CBO's positions is pretty radical, in my opinion, on the issue of how little is actually protected by the fair use principle (as well as their meandering around the frist sale principle). This goes along the lines of the fair use area of the copyright law being unregulated (as opposed to, say, given by a statute), and while some people think that this is good (say Lessig seems to be of that opinion), CBO, on the other hand, seems to think that this is a good basis to declare these unregulated uses as infringing.

    I think the poster is a little more optimistic about this study than the content actually warrants.

    norbert

  20. A horse. A barn. A door. by John+Jorsett · · Score: 3, Funny

    You mean after extending copyright to 70 years past the creator's death, NOW we shouldn't tilt it any more toward particular stakeholders? Gee thanks.

  21. Slanted wholly towards business interests by DMCA, by D4C5CE · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as copyright has become now that the legal landscape has so brutally been overturned to the detriment of consumers, "The study basically recommends not changing the copyright legislation in favor of any particular stakeholder."
    To put it in other words, "now that the power has been shifted solely to one side, just keep it that way forever."
    Fair and equitable, reasonable and well-balanced, huh?
    Certainly from a pigopolist's point of view, but I'm not so sure about how this status quo is supposed to benefit the rest of "us the people."

  22. The missing detail in this report. by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This totally fails to take into account transaction costs of the legal system and other copyright protections. You can create a legal system that always rules infavor of maximized efficiency--the goal of this paper--but only if you ignore the costs of that system. In reality, the costs of legal representation outweigh the both the value and cost of the vast majority of creative work transactions. If I write a book, and someone sues me for taking ideas from their book, the value of both our books is probably dwarfed by the salaries of the lawyers required to defend our claims. All this talk of "perfect price discrimination" is in economic fantasy land--a world of perfect information and costless legal systems. Indeed, one might wonder if the government economists have a vested interest in ignoring the costs of legal compliance.