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Human-powered Helicopter Fails to Lift Off

Peter writes "The Human-powered helicopter didn't even get off the ground. A team of University of British Columbia engineering students tried to win the $20,000 US prize offered by the American Helicopter Society. Three metres off the ground and hover for a minute was the challenge. But before the rotors were able to produce enough buoyant force they hit each other. More details: Vancouver Sun."

29 of 410 comments (clear)

  1. hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I dunno, for some reason, the second half of that headline seems pretty predictable after reading the first half :)

  2. Look on the bright side... by pyrrhonist · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...not getting off the ground makes it difficult to crash.

    --
    Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    1. Re:Look on the bright side... by Epistax · · Score: 4, Funny

      If only this were true in software.

  3. I'm all in favor of alternative energy sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    But killing humans and using them for fuel? That's horrible!

  4. If God meant for man to fly ... by Bob(TM) · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... He'd have provided more engineering graduate students.

    --

    The little guy just ain't getting it, is he?
  5. No pretesting? by erick99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    How could they not know that this was going to fail so completely? The article did not state whether or not they had done any test flights before the public demonstration. If they did, and it worked, than maybe it was just the temp/humidity as stated. It was interesting to read:

    "My feeling at the moment is that the machine is actually quite unstable," said Mike Georgallis, leader of the team that has been working on the project for six years.

    Maybe they did know that this wasn't likely to be a success.

    Cheers,

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:No pretesting? by wwest4 · · Score: 4, Funny

      > These blades are huge, thick profile and with HUGE drag.
      > There is simply no way a human can spin and keep them rotating
      > for 1 minute at a speed sufficient for liftoff.

      Yeah, but it's merely an engineering problem. All they have to do is reduce the blade profile by (thick/3.212) to get to (HUGE-SOMEWHATBIG)+3, give or take a few hundredths of a BIG and it just might work.

      Could someone confirm my math?

      Oh I admit, it LOOKS grim, but isn't it a bit presumptuous to be a naysayer without any real data?

    2. Re:No pretesting? by Phurd+Phlegm · · Score: 5, Informative
      These were engineering students, and yet no one thought to do the basic physics calculations (like: what is the power required and can a human generate it) before building a prototype. I thought that was what engineering is all about.
      I know it's kind of expected that no one on Slashdot reads the references before pontificating, but this (click on "choosing the final Thunderbird design") seems to indicate they did do the calculations and they did expect a human could produce enough power.

      It appears they were in error, or that there were other things (e.g., stability) that interfered. That's no reason to expect they won't improve the design and get it working, though. I think it's a pretty cool challenge and certainly beats the usual student project of "design another <known thing>".

    3. Re:No pretesting? by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How could they not know that this was going to fail so completely? The article did not state whether or not they had done any test flights before the public demonstration. If they did, and it worked, than maybe it was just the temp/humidity as stated. It was interesting to read:

      Very probably, they didn't really expect it to work the first time (although I'm sure they had hopes). But hey, it's a university, so there's no real reason to hide the failures behind closed doors, and good educational reasons to do it in public. After all, failing and going on is a legitimate part of the development process.

    4. Re:No pretesting? by Dave_B93 · · Score: 5, Informative
      I was at the attempted liftoff.

      This was the first time that they had the whole thing assembled, and in some ways you could tell. I think some simple resistance based testing would've shown that chain structure was too fragile to propel the wings properly ( either that or the chain was somehow damaged in the first crash where the blades ran into each other.)

      It was also kind of obvious they had never practiced how they were going to start the thing. they had 4 volunteers, (one on the end of each rotor) running around helping the rotors get started. One of the guys on the lower blades was pulling too far down causing the other guy to let go. That is why the blades collided the first time, forget all this not enough lift on the top blade, it was human error.

      The second attempt (after repairing the damage caused by the first attempt). looked more promising, the blades actually seemed to be moving quite well, and in fact the upper blade had started producing enough lift that it looked like there was no danger of hitting the bottom one ( even with human error) , but then they ran into the problems with the chain. Imagine the sound that your bike makes when you're in the wrong gear going up a hill. The skipping noises etc... it sounded just like that.

      I left after the third attempt when the chain just came off. it didnt' look like they were going to get anywhere, and I'd already been there for about 2 hours.

      As for why they'd never practiced with the thing beforehand, I speculate that it is because they didn't know if the thing would survive. If somehow it had gotten off the ground, only to crash after 30 seconds, they would've beaten the record, but wouldn't be able to recreate it. This way they would atleast have witnesses...

  6. They hit eachother!? by TeVi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Peter writes "The Human-powered helicopter didn't even get off the ground. A team of University of British Columbia engineering students tried to win the $20,000 US prize offered by the American Helicopter Society. Three metres off the ground and hover for a minute was the challenge. But before the rotors were able to produce enough buoyant force they hit each other.

    I assume 'they' refers to the rotors, not the team...

  7. Nitpick by TamMan2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is kind of a nitpick, but buoyant force has nothing to do with how helicopters work, blimps and boats use buoyancy, helicopters and planes use aerodynamic lift.

    --
    "I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
  8. Re:Point? by fireman+sam · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The point is that this type of research could lead to more efficient lift mechanisms for conventional aircraft. Allowing longer flights with less fuel requirements.

    BTW, the Australian Parlament(sp?) past the free trade agreement, so we now have software patents, yay!

    --
    it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
  9. Design vs Implementation by sczimme · · Score: 4, Interesting


    IANAAerospace Engineer.

    From reading their Project Status/Schedule page, it appears their problems may have arisen during the manufacturing stage:

    July, 2004

    It has been a while since our last update. We have been busy.

    COMPOSITE SPAR MANUFACTURE/TESTING

    All spars have been cooked including the tapered sections. Assembly of all this is complete for the four wings. Static testing was carried out for the assembled spars. All four eventually passed the test (see Thunderbird Projects - Picture gallery).

    WING CONSTRUCTION

    All four wings (for the two rotors) have been completed. This includes all wing parts (leading edges, trailing edges, suction side, ...) and assembly (see Thunderbird Projects - Picture gallery).

    "Eventually passed the test"? Uh oh.

    [There were no updates from December 2001 to July 2004]

    December, 2001

    COMPOSITE SPAR MANUFACTURE/TESTING

    Static testing has been carried out for the CFRP spars. Static tests included both bending and torsion. A large effort was put in manufacturing the tapered mandrel for tapered composite spar production. One tapered spar has been manufactured with disastrous results. The tapered mandrel still requires some work (modifications). Composite spar manufacture continues (including straight sections).


    It appears there were construction issues early in the project.

    I am certainly not knocking their efforts. However, even the most elegant design can be compromised by sub-optimal manufacturing/implementation resources. I wish them the best in the next iteration.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  10. Competition rules url by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Insightful

    here are the rules of the competition.

    The obvious cheats (lighter than air gases, storing energy in a battery) are banned, but you could 'cheat' by using a human to store up a lot of energy in a low-drag rotor that then changes angle of attack to convert the stored energy to lift.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  11. Re:Point? by dykofone · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Ah yes, "The Point," what is it and why should anything be attempted if "The Point" isn't clearly defined in a two-page, three-color brochure accompanying a 10 slide powerpoint presentation (with plenty of cute sounds and clip-art) and of course complimentary box lunches.

    BECAUSE it's cool, because I look at it and go "damn, that would be quite the engineering accomplishment right there," because college isn't all about inventing things that need to be invented, it's about expanding the mind to accomplish abstract ideas. Think of every lab that students do in their science courses: what's the point of those? It's old technology, it's certainly been done before. Why aren't freshman chemistry students working on cold fusion or something else the military will jump all over?

    Besides, this is impressive science, since the human legs can put out a sustainable 100W, it's the attempt to built something light enough to get off with minimal power. And the $175,000 they've spent over 6 years to educate students and built a prototype is cheap in the education world.

  12. Sooner or later someone will do it. by runner_one · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity. For many years the thought of sustainable human powered flight of any kind was considered an impossibility but in 1979 we saw the Gossamer Albatross cross the English Channel. I believe that sooner or later someone will manage to meet the requirements to win this American Helicopter Society prize. However without a doubt even then human powered flight will be just an interesting curiosity and not of any practical use.

  13. Re:Does strike me as feasible by Kynde · · Score: 4, Informative

    The human body constantly generates an approximate 200 watts. In case anyone's wondering, that's about 0.26 horsepower, and that's assuming that you can apply the full 200 watts of your energy. It's fun to see them try, but the physics say that the energy just isn't there.

    That's not entirely accurate. I think the 200 watts is an approximation of the heat we emit in room temperatures. That's not the only source of power we have. We can also, for example, pedal.

    Considering that we can run uphill fairly fast, the physics indeed says the power to overcome gravity most certainly is there, atleast for short periods of time. It's another question entirely wether we have the power to lift ourselves and the helicopter machinery using that technique. It will mostly depend on the efficiency vs the weight of the machinery.

    --
    1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
  14. That should read average human body... by TamMan2000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The human body constantly generates an approximate 200 watts

    You mean the average human...

    Lance Armstrong can sustain power outputs around 600 watts, and several people (most competative amatuer cyclists) are capable of a ~1 minute burst of over 1250 watts.

    --
    "I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
    1. Re:That should read average human body... by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, that's true. In fact, most healty indivduals can generate more than a horsepower (746W) for very short bursts. To prove this to yourself, find a flight of stairs and time yourself running up them:

      Your weight in lbs x floor to floor height in feet / seconds to climb / 550 = horsepower

      Don't live in the US?
      Your mass in kg x 9.82 x floor ht in meters/ seconds to climb = watts

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  15. The art of flying... by bsd4me · · Score: 5, Funny

    The art of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

    1. Re:The art of flying... by jcostantino · · Score: 5, Funny

      Informative? That should be moderated Funny.

      --
      Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
  16. Re:Point? by Sebadude · · Score: 4, Funny

    So not only am I paying top dollars to fly to europe, now I'm going to have to pedal for 8 hours too? Great.

    --
    Eh.
  17. Re:Point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Attention passengers, we're preparing for take off. Please put your seats in the upright positions and your feet on the pedals. If you notice a fellow passenger failing to pedal, please quietly alert a stewardess that you suspect terrorism.

  18. Re:Does strike me as feasible by KjetilK · · Score: 4, Insightful
    RTFWS... I have personally small problems sustaining 400 Watts over a period of a few minutes, and I can probably get somewhat higher since I have a pretty good anaerobic capacity.

    They have done their tests, and they have a guy which can do well beyond 500 watts, that's a lot.

    The next thing is of course to make the helicopter lighter, and optimize everything for efficiency.

    At some point, energy demands will get low enough, and then you may have liftoff. I think you're a bit too pessimistic. It's not easy, but that's not why they do it.

    --
    Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  19. At least they proved... by hcdejong · · Score: 4, Funny

    that the theory "helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly that the Earth repels them" is incorrect. Oh well, back to the old drawing board...

  20. blades not stiff enough? by mks180 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "the atmospheric conditions caused a dangerous imbalance in the craft's two rotor blades: the bottom blade was producing lift while the top blade wasn't." Sounds to me that what really happened was that they tried to save weight and didn't make the upper blades, which are longer, torsionally stiff enough. This caused a phenomenon similar to aileron reversal: as you produce lift, you produce a nose-down pitching moment which can elastically twist the blades, and may be capable of reversing the direction of lift. If this is what happened, then I can easily see the upper blades flapping down into the lower set of blades.

    This aileron reversal effect is actually a fairly hot research topic in the rotorcraft community. People are trying to exploite it by using embeded actuators to control trailing edge flaps to create a pitching moment to twist rotor blades and thereby eliminate the swashplate for primary control.

  21. Re:Will someone hep me? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Did you read the article?

    "The result was an ugly collision between the two less than one minute after the team made its first attempt at flight, around 11 a.m. Seventeen minutes later -- after a roll of cellophane was used to repair the damaged wing -- the team tried again."

    That doesn't sound like massive damage to me, if they were able to patch it up with a roll of cellophane -- in 17 minutes. Sounds like part of the blade cracked or got smashed in, and that's it.

    At which point, they continued the test:

    "This time, the chain connecting pilot Peter Hudson's pedals to the top rotor snapped. Continued problems with the chain led Georgallis to finally abort the day's mission."

    Sounds like they decided to give up before they did any real damage to the helicopter. So, rendering thousands of hours at $30,000 dollars wasted? I don't think so.

    People have a way of blowing things way out of proportion, don't they?

  22. Re:Does strike me as feasible by pclminion · · Score: 4, Informative
    So, does that mean that no energy is expended holding yourself at the top of a chinup?

    There is work being done on a microscopic scale in your muscles. You might need a background in muscle biology to completely understand this, but this is the modern theory of how actin and myosin (the two proteins which make your muscles work) actually cause muscle contraction.

    Basically, your muscle fibers are made up of billions of tiny ratchets which cog against another fiber, kind of like a rack-and-pinion steering system. When your muscle is applying force to an object, say, when doing a chinup, the ratchet teeth "slip" and the fibers slide past each other. To counteract this, the ratchets must flex again to pull the fiber back. All this ratcheting work eventually winds up as heat in your muscles.

    If your arms were made of steel, it would take no energy to hold a chinup. This is because steel arms have no moving parts. It is important to know that your muscles are indeed still "moving" while holding a chinup, but at a microscopic scale you are not aware of. That's why it requires an exertion of energy to maintain a flexed position.