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Canadian Arrow Completes Drop Test

Posted by michael on from the look-out-below,-eh dept.

hpulley writes "The Canadian press is reporting that X-Prize entrant the Canadian Arrow made its first successful crew compartment drop test on Saturday. It is essentially a modern version of the German V2 rocket. This test was just a drop of the crew compartment to test the parachutes. Next comes a launch abort test to see if the crew can be safely sent away from the vehicle. No word yet on when they might launch the consecutive flights in two-week turnaround for the prize. Fellow Canadian entrant the da Vinci Project will try to launch October 2nd. In the fall, venerable model company Estes Rockets will have a new model of the Canadian Arrow along with models of other entrants like the Rubicon." Oddly enough, I saw the crew compartment being driven around in Toronto on Saturday morning (towed behind a white pickup truck), but I didn't know what they were up to.

37 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Tintin? by Peden · · Score: 4, Informative

    Incredible how much that arrow looks like a smaller scale model of the rocket used in the comicbook about Tintin from the French cartoonist Hergé.

    1. Re:Tintin? by mangu · · Score: 4, Informative

      As Hercule Poirot would say, Hergé was a Belgian.

    2. Re:Tintin? by goon+america · · Score: 3, Informative
      ...which is because both the Canadian Arrow and the lunar rocket in Tintin were based on the V2.

      According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V2:
      The lunar rocket in Hergé's Tintin comic books Destination Moon and Explorers on the Moon looks like a V-2, as do most science fiction rockets of the 1950's. What is unique about Hergé's book is that they also feature the chessboard test-pattern.
    3. Re:Tintin? by mothz · · Score: 2

      Incredible how much that arrow looks like a smaller scale model of the rocket used in the comicbook about Tintin from the French cartoonist Hergé.

      But not altogether surprising. Science imitates art all the time, whether it's a fiction novel, movie, or even a comic. How many neat inventions have appeared in a Jules Verne story or an episode of "Star Trek" many years before they were ever built in real life? This is just one more case.

  2. Any of these guys German? by aelbric · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is essentially a modern version of the German V2 rocket.

    Looks like London may not be safe yet. Someone call Tony Blair!

    By the way, I have German ancestry (first generation American). Don't get all riled up.

    --
    nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
    1. Re:Any of these guys German? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually the Arrow is based in London - ONTARIO, so maybe if the rocket goes off course, London will be threatened - just the "other" London. :)

      For what it is worth, one of the men building a part of the guidance system is of German ancestry too. Those of us who are his freinds have been teasing him to no end about that point.

    2. Re:Any of these guys German? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  3. Enlighten me... by FiReaNGeL · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's something I don't get with the X-prize craze...

    The 10 millions US$ seems like a major incentive to participate... but isn't the cost of such an endeavour much, much higher than that? Even more so when you consider the fact that the actual chance to win is not that high...

    --
    Eureka Science News - automatically updated
    1. Re:Enlighten me... by Peden · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, but correct me if I am wrong... The people participating are doing it for a variety of other reason such as publicity, or just something to do in their spare time, with their spare money? John Carmack is said to use something like 60hours a week on Armadillo, and I doubt it that he is doing it to win 10million.

    2. Re:Enlighten me... by aelbric · · Score: 4, Informative

      IMHO, I believe it's a combination of trying to get a jump in the emerging market of private space travel, trying to get one's name in the history books, and (hopefully) a great deal of the explorer spirit that appeals to more thoughtful people. This will need to be done, why not do it now while there's a little extra incentive?

      --
      nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
    3. Re:Enlighten me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know the Da Vinci project (Canadian team) had a budget around $5 million (CDN). So if they won they would stand to make a tidy sum.

      $10 million (USD) prize...
      Thats alot of Canadian pesos...

      Plus. I think if one of the companies really succeeded, a $10 million prize would be nothing compared to the potential cash revenue (they could put nasa out of business!)

    4. Re:Enlighten me... by bwy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The goal of someone like Scaled Composites, IMHO, isn't to win the X-Prize but to develop a private space program concept that can potentially be sold to someone like Virgin who would start offering suborbital tourism flights.

      So, they've spent around $20 million US, and $10 mil is indeed half. If any company developing a new product could stand to get 1/2 of all of their expenses back by winning a contest, wouldn't that be icing on the cake?

      In fact, note that the rules of the X-Prize (2 flights, 3 passengers, etc) are meant to be things that would encourage a company to actually do something important with their technology AFTER winning the X-Prize. So it is an interesting setup. While the X-Prize isn't the sole driving force, it has definately been a "shot in the ass" to keep teams working hard. I think the expiration date on the X-Prize was an absolutely great idea too- because it is working! Just look how many teams are making a final drive right now. As long as nobody dies- and I tell you these da Vinci guys, if they are serious, scare the bejesus out of me.

    5. Re:Enlighten me... by aallan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Armadillo Aerospace has only spent about $1.5 million on their X-Prize craft. The only group which has spent more than $10 million is Scaled Composites...

      Which, barring a major upset, is probably who is going to win. I guess the old "You get what you pay for..." holds true to some extent.

      Al.
      --
      The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
    6. Re:Enlighten me... by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can think of another:

      Fast, good, cheap. Choose any two. :)

      --
      It's been a long time.
    7. Re:Enlighten me... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Funny
      It's the challenge, not the prize, that drives the game. I once bet my QA team a six pack of fine Pilsener that our current SW release was totally bug-free. They took up the challenge, and 100 or so bug reports came out in the next week as opposed to the usual four or five I could get out of them. They sure showed me, didn't they? ;-) Darn, gosh, they won the bet. Best SW release we ever had, and it only cost me a few bucks worth of beer. My next pay rise sort of more than covered it, and it beat having to fine-tooth a few hundred thousand lines of the ancient Fortran we used.

      From Old Fart's Guide to Dirty Software Tricks

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  4. It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by Viking5150 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Canadian Arrow was named after the Avro Arrow, a revolutionary jet interceptor built in Canada in the 1950s during the height of the cold war. It was years ahead of any other jet interceptor design at the time.

    "A source of national pride, the Arrow incorporated advanced technical innovations and became a symbol of Canadian excellence.

    One of the finest achievements in Canadian aviation history, the delta wing Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow was never allowed to fulfill its mission. The Arrow weapons platform along with the Iroquois engine was cancelled by the Conservative Diefenbaker government February 20, 1959, less then 3 weeks before the MK2 Arrow was to take flight."

    http://www.avroarrow.org/

    1. Re:It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why is this modded funny? The Avro Arrow was the most technologically advanced fighter plane of its time, it was cancelled to allow American dominance of the areospace industry. The F series of fighter planes never would have taken flight if the Arrow was manufactured.

    2. Re:It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by stendec · · Score: 4, Funny
      Lies, lies, all lies! The Avro Arrow was rightly the advanced technomiracle it is popularly known to have been. Here's a brief -- brief -- list of some of its features:

      First production aeroplane to sustain Mach 3 without afterburners.

      Could fly in space.

      Had a Hoser Flight Operator Detector to ensure it was not being flown by the enemy.

      Could compose iambic verse in flight.

      Was used by the University of Toronto's physics department to empirically test both Einstein's Special and General Theories of Relativity.

      Could ratiocinate its own funding to the body politic.

    3. Re:It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Beautiful.

      But you forgot the bit where we had to rate it in moosepower because horsepower isn't big enough. ...roll on, Red Green.

    4. Re:It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by Ubergrendle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I won't comment specifically on the engineering aspects -- I've seen strong arguments in favour of it being both great and overrated. I'm unqualified to offer an opinion.

      However, I'd argue that ultimately what killed this project was the invention of the ICBM. In the early 1950s the concepts pertaining to nuclear defense were interceptor based: chase down the bombers and destroy them before they could nuke your cities. The Arrow was intended to become a pre-emminent interceptor for its age.

      What happened? US and NATO strategy changed. There was no chance of intercepting an ICBM w/ multiple warheads, and thus funding priorities changed. By the early 1960s it was obvious that an interceptor based strategy was no longer relevant. Fighters were being designed as air superiority fighters, tactical bombers, or all-weather craft. No customers = limited market for the Arrow. It was also way over budget (although close to completion of the Mk II) and thus the Diefenbaker government killed it.

      I will agree that there's alot of myth and rumour about beligerent and nasty destruction of the program. Most of these are not founded in fact, and are tied to the managers of the Avro Arrow program and not politically motivated.

      /$0.02 as couch military historian

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    5. Re:It's named after the legendary Avro Arrow by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Funny
      No it's not! It's a typo--It's supposed to be named after the Nestlé Aero Chunky Chocolate Bar because the bubbly contruction, but there was a spelling mistake and then the sponsorship fell through, and...

      You're not buying this, are you? *poot*!

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  5. Woot for canada by g-to-the-o-to-the-g · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Seeing as I haven't heard much news on any non-Canadian teams other then spaceshipone, this is awesome for Canada. We're going to be the first to make an official launch, and we now possibly have a second on the go. As things get closer to October (Canadian team launches on the 2nd, Americans on the 4th) this whole X-Prize thing is starting to get really interesting. Its pretty hard to predict how things will turn out right now, but it's definitely going to get very exciting.

    On another note, I only live about 4 hours from where the first Canadian team is launching, so I'm going to get to experience that.

    --

    Hi there

    1. Re:Woot for canada by aelbric · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, greatest respect for the Canadian team, but my money is on SpaceShipOne, literally. Bought stock in SpaceDev when they announced the engine contract for SS1. Pretty cool technology too, essentially, the SS1 engines burn a combination of rubber and nitrous oxide as fuel. Very safe and non-polluting from what I understand. Also capable of stopping and restarting after initial ignition. Can't do that with a solid fuel booster.

      Hmmmm...maybe they should declare that they own the IP for Linux to pump the stock up. Gotta go make a call.....

      --
      nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
    2. Re:Woot for canada by g-to-the-o-to-the-g · · Score: 2, Insightful

      errr...my bad. article here

      --

      Hi there

  6. Arrows by synthparadox · · Score: 2, Funny

    I thought arrows are supposed to be launched from a bow. I demand a refund! This arrow doesn't launch from a bow, and part of it breaks off and floats down... 0.o

  7. I was there and have pix... by jqs · · Score: 4, Informative

    My wife and I got up early, biked down to the islands and took the ferry over. We had a perfect vantage point as the crew compartment came down approximately a kilometre from us offshore. We were even closer to it than the emergency crews that were on hand in case it landed on the island (and you didn't see the slow moving object on parachutes coming at you...).

  8. Canadian *Arrow* by bob65 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Interesting name, perhaps a bit nostalgic?

  9. Hmmm - somethins smells fishy... by stienman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are you sure they're Candian? The entire website is in Feet/Miles/Inches! Not a meter in sight!

    I dunno. Sounds like we have a couple of american defectors doing the work up there... Time to bring those traiters back. ;-)

    -Adam

    1. Re:Hmmm - somethins smells fishy... by Blastrogath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First, Canadian imperial mesurements are mostly but not allways the same as american "standard" mesurements. The gallon for example is a different size. I think there's no difference in the feet/miles/inches department though.

      Speaking as a canadian, I use imperial as much as metric on a daily basis. Metric is used for weights and volumes, but not the weights of people. I don't know my height in metres and houses are built all in imperial but our highway speeds and distances are in Km. Metres are actually not in as common use as feet.

      It's probably at least as easy for most canadians to understand something's height etc. in feet as in metres. If you're going to list some stats in imperial you may as well list them all that way, to be consistant.

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
  10. Re:Obligatory Tom Lehrer quote by 3)+profit!!! · · Score: 3, Informative
    No, the quote is,
    "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
    That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.
  11. Old technology by TheUncleBob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems strange that they are using 60 year old rocket design, and a pod that looks oddly like spaceship one's pod (All those black dots/windows)

    I thought the x-prize would push innovation forward, not recycling (or has the patent on v2 rockets recently expired) . Otherwise couldn't we have done this 50 years ago?

    1. Re:Old technology by julesh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the x-prize would push innovation forward, not recycling (or has the patent on v2 rockets recently expired) . Otherwise couldn't we have done this 50 years ago?

      Given that the X prize is for private industry reproducing results that were first achieved about 50 years ago, I don't see it as surprising that they're recycling 50 year old technology. The point is, though, that it's a lot cheaper for these guys to do it now than it was then, because of improvements in other areas of technology (largely materials and manufacturing processes).

      Also, note that the X prize vehicle must be reusable (2 launch requirement), which none of the technology of the 50s was, so they have to make some improvements.

  12. O.o; by Eudial · · Score: 4, Funny

    A manned cruise missile.

    Well, there ought to be a first time for everything.

    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  13. Weak! by flithm · · Score: 2, Funny

    As a proud Canadian citizen I am truly embarassed by the Canadian Arrow. It most certainly does not live up to the Avro Arrow, which was ingenious and revolutionary in every sense of the words.

    Multi-stage space vehicles are so 1970s! Come on guys! Let's see some true innovation coming from Canada. Maybe, the Canada Super Arm, which would simply pick people up and put them directly into orbit. Or how about, the Canadian Slap Shot Ship, a large black single stage saucer like device launched via contact with a huge wood paddle.

    Even I can think of better plans than the Canadian Arrow. Pffft.

  14. Re:Space Ship One by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I Believe Space Ship One will buy out the competition, and then dump the companies so only they can win, in about 15 years though, and open source space ship will be put into space.

    I know it's a joke / troll, but honestly, I think it's important to understand that there are several "competitors", but only one real contender, based on the development cycle and reality of the technological ability to achieve the goal. All these rocket people are trying to do this on garage technology, and the end result is going to be dead fools in a tin can, if they even try. It still cost a lot of money to send a body to space, even if it is done on the cheap. The Russians have perfected this. And while they are poor, they still have a lot more $$ than just about any of these guys. I see dead bodies.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  15. Sex in Space by Basehart · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Oddly enough, I saw the crew compartment being driven around in Toronto on Saturday morning (towed behind a white pickup truck)"

    Those were the low velocity sex tests. Watch out for the crew compartment being sent over the Niagara Falls for the more advanced Sex in Space tests.

  16. Re:Space Ship One - Competition by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think it's important to understand that there are several "competitors", but only one real contender...

    Something similar would have been said in 1927 with the Ortig prize. The actual winner was essentially completely discounted; Lindberg (sp?) was considered to be underfunded, minimal experience, using an aircraft that had only been tested once (on a transcontinental flight) and only had one engine and one pilot to boot!

    Maybe one of these groups with "garage technology" will have the right stuff.

    myke

    --
    Mimetics Inc. Twitter