Should Game Consoles Make Breakfast, Too?

Ryan writes "Is the idea of 'convergence' (the notion that a single digital appliance will handle multiple tasks) in gaming consoles even worth it? CNET News has an article discussing the issues of convergence related to gaming - it seems like a lot of consumers aren't worried about the bells and whistles, yet they keep throwing them at us." The article mentions the "underwhelming" response to Sony's PSX console/DVR combo, whose "arrival in North America--originally slated to happen in time for the 2004 holiday shopping season--is now set for an unspecified date in 2005."

Comments

Kinda obvious

[CarrionBird]

The only people craving convergence seem to be the gadget companies looking for another gimmick.

Re:Kinda obvious

[garcia]

I personally liked the convergence of the PS2 and a DVD player. For $15 extra I had a fully functioning DVD player with remote *and* a gaming console.

This was at a time when DVD players were well over $150/ea. Seemed like a great bargain to me.

Re:Kinda obvious

[Ubergrendle]

Why i hate convergence in my electronics:
1. All-in-one = single point of failure when something breaks, and needs to be replaced.
2. Generally speaking, all-in-one devices incorporate propietary technologies to promote lock-in and/or reduce 3rd party tech licensing costs for the company (SONY!!!!).
3. Quality of stand alone components is usually much higher. Think stereo equipment.
4. Modularity = more cost effective upgrade path.
5. All-in-one = usually more complex than individual devices. Stand alone means you can learn and understand the functions fully before moving onto the next component. Sometimes the 'role' of a device is confused when it is consolidated. e.g. Does 'play' mean play the .mp3, the CD, the DVD, or the video game???
6. All-in-one convergence not always a logical combination. Digital camera cell phones? mp3 player cell phones? Cell phones tend to be the worst examples of this phenomenon.

Convergence usually is successful if its the result of a natural evolution of a product. I don't think that marketers can force convergence on its audience...especially when its marked up substantially.

Re:Kinda obvious

[Chris Burke]

Right. The conclusion, then, would be that the only worthwhile "convergence" device is one which is completely general-purpose in design and upgradable/extensible in function. Not by successively hacking on one feature onto a previous design, releasing it, then repeating. Particularly not in the highly price/space/power conscious environments of cell phones and consoles.

The cell phone guys should take note of this.

[ron_ivi]

Please just give me a phone that lets me do stuff phone related. I want a phone that will:

• Make calls
• maintain a phone book
• let me upload my voicemails to my computer for archiving Even my oldest answering machine in the 80s let me change tapes to save messages.

Why do they keep adding crap like virus-ridden operating systems and video games, when they don't even have the basic voice features working yet.

Re:The cell phone guys should take note of this.

[angst7]

Agreed. I've never even used my Xbox to watch a DVD. I bought it to play games not track my stocks or turn on the lights when I come home from work.

I've got the same problem with my new wizbang Nextel/Motorola cell phone. It's smaller does a zillion neato things, but it gets consistantly worse reception than the one I had for the last three years that simply called people.

Re:The cell phone guys should take note of this.

[NanoGator]

"Why do they keep adding crap like virus-ridden operating systems and video games..."

Ok: Everybody that's gotten a virus through their phone, raise their hand. Nobody? Ok. Anybody that's played games on their phone, raise their hands. Hmm quite a few.

"when they don't even have the basic voice features working yet."

Uh, yeah they do. Been working great since 97.

Make a call: Check.
Recieve a call: Check.
Save phone numbers into a phone book: Check.
Recieve voice mail: Check.
Voice Mail indicator: Check.
Caller ID: Check.
Decent rate plans: Check.
No roaming or long distance charges: Check.
Pretty darned good coverage across the country: Check.

I have no clue when it became so fucking fashionable to complain about cell phones here. There are a lot of people these days that don't even have a landline because their cell phone handles the job just fine. So spare us al the "basic voice features" karma-whoring line. Every single story that mentions cell phones has one of these comments modded up, even though it's so obviously wrong.

Re:The cell phone guys should take note of this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, yeah they do. Been working great since 97.

How about the "save my voicemails for archival purposes" that the grandparent post mentioned. Old tape-based answering machines did this. Seems a new one could easily upload a .mp3 to a computer in the same way they do it with videos.

I'd much rather a phone upload a voice mail than upload a digital picture - yet the phone vendors added the latter feature but not the former. This is so much more silly because I already have a digital camera that takes better pictures than the phone.

Separate But Equal

[grunt107]

Although these 'combos' are good for people that have none of the offered tech but want them all, I believe separates are the way to go. Then I do not end up with 3 DVD players (1 standalone, 1 w/PS2, 1 w/XBox).
A better idea is to have all these 'parts' interconnect in a more seamless way - have additional devices plug in to a master controller, which would allow infinite connections (instead of the current setups where the 3rd game system is connected on the 'tape' monitor.

Re:Separate But Equal

[rsmith-mac]

In this case, there's really nothing wrong with a gaming console being a DVD player; unlike the DVR idea, these devices already have all the technology they need, such as the DVD drive and the decoder(for in-game FMV), so it might as well be used as a selling point to sell more of these things and allow users to skip getting a stand-alone DVD player. Now the PS2 DVR on the other hand isn't close to being like this, as it's more like a DVR with a PS2 built on(and not sharing too many resources in the process), and hence it's a "bad thing."

convergence? blech!

[Dorsai65]

C'mon. Do ONE thing, do it well, and do it inexpensively. This stuff is starting to look more and more like those 8-track/cassette/turntable/tuner lashups from the 70's. Sheesh.

Yes, convergence is good

[Nos.]

But don't try to do it all with hardware.

Imagine a device that I can plug into my TV. It will play DVDs, it will take my CD's, convert them to MP3s (autmatcially putting in track names and authors), it will allow internet surfing (yes, a TV isn't as good as a monitor), PVR, game playing, paying bills online, etc. it will handle VOIP (with built in message manage), IM, home automation, home security, water the lawn when it needs it, etc.

Sounds nice, I'd buy one. Oh wait I have one, its called a computer. None of the things I mentioned above are new. Rolling all of these features into one device is going to take forever. However, build a nice fanless computer. Make it a DVD player and have some basic MP3 functionality. Release. Do a software update to allow web surfing. Do a software update to do home automation (thermostat, time lights, etc). Do a software update to ... you get the picture. The thing is, this can all be done today, nothing is new. But trying to build it all at once is the wrong way to go at it. Start slow, release often. Sure most of us on slashdot aren't going to be the target market, but our families, friends, and other non-techno people are.

Nothing New

[Nexzus]

I remember the 3D0 and the CD-i being touted as all in one devices, and they failed miserably. Panasonic and Phillips seem to forgot that it is - and I hate to point out the obvious - all about the games. Being able to play movies, or record TV shows should just be a bonus, not the focus of a console.

Plus, I would rather have devices that performed one function, and did them well, than one device that could do several things rather poorly. The PS2 is a great game playing machine, but makes a lousy DVD player.

Sigh.. No, and this isn't news

[stratjakt]

The "set-top box" is a white elephant. Not just because of technical hurdles, but the very fact that people don't want it.

I have a seperate DVD player and XBox. The fact that the XBox can play DVDs didn't stop me from getting the DVD player. Why? Because I want to watch a movie upstairs while my kids play Soul Calibur II. Simple, huh? Why should I buy two $500 devices when a $40 DVD player and $120 Xbox do what I need?

And hey, when my XBox breaks, I can still watch DVDs, play CDs, pay my bills online, keep my milk cold and fresh, and make delicious toaster pastries.

All-in-one devices are single points of failure.

Not to mention the "jack of all trades, master of none" angle. Sure the XBox can play DVDs. But not in 640p (ok after modding and hacking it can). Even a $40 DVD player has progressive scan these days. It's a specific example, but of a general trend.

Just like instead of a reliable phone with good battery life, manufacturers think we "really want" is a shitty phone, grainy camera, buggy PDA, and laughingly unplayable games.

Hell, a clie is small enough that I can duct-tape it to the phone myself, if that's what I need.

I can see niche markets for some of this convergance stuff. The rich guy who did a 100,000 dollar remodel of his living room, and an a/v rack with room for a DVD player, TiVo and PS2 just aren't in the budget. Fine, he can pay the premium.

Question

[cubicledrone]

Must there be an "overwhelming" response to any product in order to consider it a success? Why does every movie have to be Spider-Man? Why does every game console have to be a PlayStation? Why does every book have to be Harry Potter?

Business would be a lot better if management would stop looking for the ultimate money grab and spend more time on the quality of their products and the non-monetary value of their business.

Re:Question

[cmburns69]

I suspect that by "underwhelming" they meant they couldn't sell enough to cover their costs.

Products and services can thrive without being the biggest or best. But that will always be the goal, because the returns are almost always greater.

Killing a project that costs more than it's worth is good business. For the most part, Sony devices perform their primary function very well. Their TV's are great for watching TV, their consoles are extremely fun, their cameras take good pictures.

A company as big as Sony doesn't get where it is without having business smarts.

Your Chocolate's In My Peanut Butter!

[blueZhift]

The idea of a do it all box is intriguing, but I'm still more inclined to want to keep these things separate. For one thing, if I want to take my gaming console to a friends house, it won't mean ripping out the heart of my home entertainment system. Also, when one thing breaks, it won't mean losing it all. On the other hand, with a good design and price point I might be inclined to buy both a dedicated unit as well as a combined unit. Perhaps the best bet is to take a component system approach which will give the consumer the choice of building the system the way the way he/she wants to.

As for bringing PCs into the picture, I think Apple may be on the right track with their Airport networking which allows streaming of music from your computer to your stereo system. I like that because it keeps the computer in the office where I want it. So I like the idea of various devices being able to work together without having to be in the same box. Unfortunately, I can see entertainment industry's paranoia getting in the way of these efforts since they are so worried about people pirating music and movies.

Pffffft!!

[davmoo]

I'm sick of convergence. Any device that does several functions usually only does them "okay". It does not of them "excellent".

I'm tired of manufacturers shoving convergence down my throat. For example, I want a cellphone that does one thing...gives me excellent performance as a phone. I don't give a damn about it being a camera, I have cameras for that. I don't give a rat's ass if it can function as a PDA, I have a PDA for that. I just want it to be a phone, and be a damned good one. Not a piss-poor phone/PDA/camera/kitchen sink.

Re:Pffffft!!

[poot_rootbeer]

Well, maybe you enjoy carrying a separate cellular phone (make that two, actually--one for GSM and another for TDMA), pager, PDA, camera, MP3 player, calculator, stopwatch, and handheld videogame all around everywhere, but I'd much rather carry one device that does it all.

No, we're not at the point where all of those functions can be adequately performed by a single device YET, but we're getting closer.

No one's forcing convergence on you. If you don't want an address book in your mobile phone, just don't use the address book -- it's not like they were going to offer a model without the address book for $20 less anyway. It's basically no-cost.

Or, buy a deprecated handset model on closeout -- almost every phone manufactured in the past 5 years is still supported by the carrier networks, and you can get an entire case of no-frills phones dirt cheap. Problem is, you'll miss out on all the other advances in technology the hardware guys came up with while integrating cameras and IR ports in the handsets -- things like improved reception quality, longer talk time...

Nintendo has it right.

[bludstone]

They have stated, many times, that they build systems to play games, and thats IT.

Good games.

Good, high quality, fun, games with recognizable characters.

People line up for the next "mario" game because the last 20 have been fantastic. It sells systems, and has a great track record.

I mean, have you played windwaker? Its a friggin work of art!

Just 3 buttons please!

[gathas]

One of the big reasons I ended up buying my kids a Gamecube is that these console systems are very easy to use. I toyed with the idea of getting the kids to use a pc for games, but that meant me spending lots of time installing games, teaching them how to start them, changing screen resolutions, etc. Game compatibility was also a big issue. With the Gamecube (other consoles are them same), all they need to know is power, eject and reset (heck they don't even need the last one). All the gamecube games we buy will work immediately, even if Dad is there. If this device was also a web browser, toaster, etc. I would have one more machine to be sys admin for.

PC = multifunction. Most else, single function

[iamlucky13]

Beyond the clock radio, what's ever worked better from putting two different functions together?" (from the article)

I prefer a regular alarm clock and a seperate radio with better sound, so even that one doesn't fly.

Sure I like doing lot's of things on my PC, but when I make a phone call, I like to do it from a telephone. When I fix my car, I like ordinary ratchets with regular sockets (sorry Bob Vila, no pocket socket). When I want a fork or a spoon, I do not want a spork. The Mega-Gadget 2000 may look cool, but using any one feature is far more cumbersome than using the individual tools it replaced, and if it breaks, I no longer have my whatcha-ma-callit, my doo-hickey, or my whirli-bob. Plus, if I buy a PSX, I still can't play Halo.

RCA HDTV Convergence Problems

[rlandrum]

I have a HDTV that I bought in 2002. It has a built in HD receiver, and I thought I would save $500 on a HD receiver by getting this TV. I hooked it up, and it's great.

Now I want to add a tivo. Hmm... No video out from the TV. There's nothing. No RCA, or even COAX outs from this HD receiver. It's all routed internally. Even pulling the back cover off revealed nothing useful to "hack" into.

And now I see HDTV external turners with built in Tivo. Those are really cool, and I'd love to get one, but there's no HDTV inputs on the back of my RCA. Guess the engineers didn't think people would ever be connecting such devices to their HDTVs. I mean WTF?!?

Convergence blows. It basically locks you into something that might be obsolete in a few months (or years, if you're lucky).

Re:Only Nintendo really "gets it".

[TechniMyoko]

But isn't nintendo in last place when it comes to sales? Wouldn't that mean their approach of doing things differently than Sony and MS be wrong?

I like how my XBOX is a high speed DVD player, replaces my CD player (and CDs).

Its not like these software features cost a lot to add, they simple copy/pasted the code from their other products (ie: Windows media player)

If it doesnt add to the cost, why not add it?

I found it pathetic that the SegaCD could play audio CDs and the cube cant

Convergence isn't popular because..

[Skedoozy]

Just choose one of these. Just one alone keeps people from buying these things.

1. The components they put into the consoles never work as well as a stand alone versions.(See: DVD Playback in PS2)

2. People balk at paying $400-$500 for something all at once. They are more comfortable paying $150 for a console one month, buying a DVD player for $100 the next, and a DVR for $150 the following month.

3. People like to have THE BEST. The best console, the best DVD player, the best DVR. A Converged Console isn't going to be the best at anything other than saving space.

4. People like to have their gadgets seperate because it looks "cooler". Lights. So. Pretty.

Think computers

[pyro101]

Computers went through the same growing pains too, the original computers like the Comadore was very feature rich while the PC had add-on's through the isa bus. As long as you offer a simple plug and play version for the average joe you can offer extra features for the truely geeky. That way if somebody really wants to have their xbox record video they can buy the add-on to do that.

Re:Only Nintendo really "gets it".

[ladafum]

I'm disgusted by the replies to this post, Nintendo are still making the best games, and the best consoles, just because the blind public chooses to buy into Sony's "cool" model; doesn't make it superior.

Seriously, I thought /. users knew more about gaming in general to insult Nintendo. Where did it all go so wrong

Most annoying thing about convergance...

[Thedalek]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before, but most "convergant" devices have zero multi-tasking ability.

So, that $900 PSX can record TV shows and Movies to DVD or internal HD or play games, but not both at the same time. If you want to play Final Fantasy X while you're recording Stargate SG-1, tough.