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The Programmer Who Could Save Tivo

Damon Darlin from Business 2.0 writes "We just posted a story on Arthur Van Hoff, the programming legend who now works at TiVo. He was one of the Java geniuses at Sun (has almost as many patents as Bill Joy) and started Strangeberry, which Tivo bought in January. the story tells how his Strangeberry software will be given away to developers of web content. The next generation Tivos will then be able to recognize web content and direct it to the appropriate home device. This could be the stuff that saves tivo because none of the set top boxes will have this ability.

32 of 371 comments (clear)

  1. Nice Feature, but.. by Klar · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The next generation Tivos will then be able to recognize web content and direct it to the appropriate home device. This could be the stuff that saves tivo because none of the set top boxes will have this ability.
    While this is a cool feature, I'm not sure if it alone will be able to save Tivo. There are so many cheaper alternatives, and I'm sure they will be able to add a similar feature in too. Personally when I'm watching TV(which I almost never have time for as of late), I don't wanna be reading stuff online, I just want to relax and watch a movie or show.
    1. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by strictfoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The key here is: "More features != better product"

      --
      I've just signed legislation that'll outlaw Russia forever. We'll begin bombing in five minutes.
    2. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While this is a cool feature, I'm not sure if it alone will be able to save Tivo. There are so many cheaper alternatives, and I'm sure they will be able to add a similar feature in too. Personally when I'm watching TV(which I almost never have time for as of late), I don't wanna be reading stuff online, I just want to relax and watch a movie or show.

      What would save Tivo would be cheaper hardware, cheaper lifetime subcriptions or no subscriptions at all, and the ability for third party add-ons (hardware or software).

      You don't want to surf and watch TV at the same time but others do. Some people want a MP3/Video collection manager on their TV. Let them do it.

      Enough of this "we want more, more, more, money" shit and more of "we want more, more, more, customers" shit :)

    3. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      TiVo is $99 now. There's no reason for a geek not to have one. I paid $400 for mine, and it is worth every penny.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    4. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by Aardpig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't want to surf and watch TV at the same time but others do. Some people want a MP3/Video collection manager on their TV. Let them do it.

      I already access my videos and MP3s (actually, OGGs) via MythTV . On top of that, I check the weather, get news headlines, and play games. I can also schedule programs from halfway around the world, via the web interface.

      On top of all this, MythTV is free free. I'm not sure what would ever convince me to switch to TiVO or a similarly-limited product.

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
    5. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by jargoone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of the things you list MythTV can do, the only thing I can't do on my TiVo(s) is play games (and that is if you ignore the lame tic-tac-toe that comes with JavaHMO).

      On top of all this, MythTV is free free. I'm not sure what would ever convince me to switch to TiVO or a similarly-limited product.

      A house? A wife? Kids? Things that take up time you can spend on hacking to get the thing to work?

      I'm not saying the above do not apply to you, but they do for some.

      My TiVo just works. I have three of them, and have for several years, and it's never crashed ONCE. I screw around with computers enough at work; when I want to watch TV, I just want to watch TV.

    6. Re:Nice Feature, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      While the MythTV software may be free, how much money did you spend on the hardware? Most people who build MythTV unit's aim for those mini-itx systems that are:

      1. Low power consuming
      2. Makes little to no noise
      3. Still powerful enough to play games

      Basically, we're talking about something like $600+ in hardware (unless you know something I don't). Add on the many hours it takes for you to build the thing and configure it, blah, blah, blah. But I guess you do have the pride of saying you built your own system.

      This is vs. the $99 tivo price tag and $300 lifetime subscription. Plus it takes all of a few minutes to buy it and set it up. On top of that, you can add multiple units to your household for something like $6/month.

      Plus, if you really want, you can hack the living daylights out of your tivo and add harddrives, networking capabilities and stream/rip/store all your stuff.

      I'm a big fan of free stuff too, but Tivo's price makes it worthwhile at this point.

      btw, with the Series2 tivo boxes, you can also schedule it to record from the web.

  2. Stupid question... by Agent+Green · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...how does TiVo get saved when they're really the only viable PVR in the mass consumer market?

    --
    // Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
    // IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
    1. Re:Stupid question... by telstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WAKE UP! Virtually every major cable-TV player is getting into the game. 5 years from now I imagine you'll have a challenge trying to find a new standard cablebox that doesn't have TiVo-like features.

    2. Re:Stupid question... by Morgahastu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except they are all terrible. I have a Scientific Atlanta PVR and it hurts me to have to use it.

      Tivo already has a great device, they just need to convince cable companies to bundle them instead of crappy knock-offs.

    3. Re:Stupid question... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Business school case study #1: shitty clone products use existing market penetration and/or low price point to destroy premium product offering from market first mover.

  3. patents != genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    come on now, don't we know better than to gauge the intellectual capacity of someone by how many patents they hold?

    1. Re:patents != genius by forgoil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We can figure out how much we like someone though, just use a simple formula:

      if(someone.patents.software > 0)
      EngageMode(EHate);
      else
      EngageMode(ELike);

      Besides, I wouldn't use the word genius about anyone who was involved in making java. I don't see what is so horribly hard about making a horrible combination of Obj-C and Smalltalk, two far better languages.

  4. Tivo and patents by GGardner · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We all know about all the stupid patents out there. But isn't Tivo an example of a company that can/should have been saved by the patent system? Tivo had a great idea, were the first to market (I think?), but now are being killed by copy-cats.

    Isn't the fact that Tivo can't (or didn't) get patent protection for its business just as strong an indictment of the patent system as all the lame patents we complain about?

    1. Re:Tivo and patents by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      TiVo has a shitload of patents on it's interface and phone-home methods and whatnot.

      You cant patent "device for recording TV digitally", since those devices have existed since the 50s. You can only patent the method. Someone else can come up with a different method (different looking interface and remote, maybe even a less invasive phone-home spying scheme).

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  5. Re:what does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It means dumbass marketroid babble. The summary starts with "Damon Darlin from Business 2.0 writes". That pretty much says it all.

  6. Why not publish a SDK by ron_ivi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they'd publish a SDK and you'll have *millions* of programmers saving Tivo, instead of just one.

  7. How about this generation by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    of Tivos knowing when it's on a channel that is showing nothing or one I'm not subscribed for, *And Not Recording It*?

    And an easy way of deleting channels - with a thumbnail that shows what's on it?

    And the prevention of third parties removing all sorts of useful features like home media option, networking, ect. (DirectTV, you dirty SOBs).

    Admittedly, these are the big 3 things that annoy me about my Tivo - I don't know if they are common to standalones, but IMHO DirectTV has really wrecked something good

  8. Re:To *really* fix tivo... by Siniset · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Direct TV is slow just on it's own. My parents had direct TV (got it after I went off to college, the bastards!) and the guide was always slow. So my guess is it's not the TIVO software, but the direct TV software. It probably has something to do with the fact that it's through a satellite uplink rather than cable. Perhaps everytime you try to access the guide, it tries to download it, rather than updating the guide periodically? My parents now have digital cable, and the guide functions work a hell of a lot faster now.

  9. Competition by dfj225 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This might be a little off topic, but I think its ok since it deals with TIVO's competition. I recently had Comcast digital cable installed and have been playing around with the On Demand feature. So far it seems like a promising feature, but needs much more content. The thing I like about On Demand is, unlike TIVO, is that I can watch something that didn't necessarily air yet (although in reality almost all of the content is previously aired stuff). I think that as soon as networks start to embrace On Demand type services more, it will be a big hit, making boxes like TIVO almost obsolete. I think what they should strive for now is putting up entire old seasons of television shows. I think it would be great to be able to watch any episode of Futurama when I want and for series that are still being run, they could add the new episodes a day after they air. On Demand should shape up to be a great technology, but right now it definetly needs better content. I can't really complain seeing how it comes free with any digital cable package. However, since they do use it as a major selling point I think Comcast should work with the networks to get better grade material on it. Once they do, I will never want to use a TIVO.

    --
    SIGFAULT
    1. Re:Competition by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, they might sell some sort of "unlimited" On Demand viewing package one day.

      Of course, it'll be "unlimited" just like my "unlimited" cablemodem, that is, arbitrarily limited.

      How long until they send me some threatening legalese letter because I streamed all the ATHF shows back-to-back, and they assume its because I'm recording them all for my personal library. Maybe that's what I'm doing, maybe I'm having a marathon ATHF party with my friends.

      Hell, OD uses up bandwidth. How long till my service is disconnected mid-month because I'm "abusing" it by letting my family watch too much TV. Apparently I let them use too much internet and had to call and apologize to my corporate masters at Comcast for the transgression.

      The old-world media empires will never "get it" and will try to shoehorn technology into their business model, rather than try to come up with newer business models based around technology.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  10. Yahoo confirms, TIVO is dying ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    were doing poorly ???
    Try ARE doing poorly.
    5 year stock price chart

    Salient fact about TIVO : TIVO loses money. Decent revenue stream you say? Continual loses for an easy-to-clone product from an aging Silicon Valley company is bad news. A programmer from Strangeberry who invented Java is not going to save TIVO. Did Java save sun ?

  11. Genius? Any clown can create a language by hopethishelps · · Score: 1, Insightful
    He was one of the Java geniuses at Sun

    Java is one of the very, very few programming languages ever created which brought no new ideas to programming. It's more or less a subset of C++, with a garbage-collector (as popularized by Lisp in the 1960s). The original intent was to compile it to a compact interpretable form somewhat like BCPL's ocode (circa 1970).

    1. Re:Genius? Any clown can create a language by pauljlucas · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Java is one of the very, very few programming languages ever created which brought no new ideas to programming.
      Finally, somebody who "gets it." Even the virtual machine was done earlier by UCSD Pascal (and probably others). I really don't understand why some people are so enamored with Java. It's a mediocre language using recycled syntax and ideas.
      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
  12. lots of patent.. by joeldg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    having a jillion patents means he is pretty aware of the legal system and that he in fact needs to protect is IP, in particular with which industry he is in.
    it is not necessarilly a factor in "genius" in my opinion, it is however a factor in "covering of the buttocks" in a hardened and cutthroat television device busines..

  13. tivo's weak competition will save tivo by jeffehobbs · · Score: 2, Insightful


    TiVo has the mindshare and still remains the best of breed PVR out there, both in terms of technology and UI. Geeks might not think UI is important but it really is; jJust examine this account of what goes wrong when the technology is there (sort of) but the UI is not.

    ~jeff

  14. There ARE good reasons to channel and web surf by notthepainter · · Score: 1, Insightful
    One common thought I've been seeing is that people don't want to web surf while watching TV. I can think of many situations where one would want JUST this.

    • You are watching a sporting event and want to look up some stats
    • You are watching a movie and want to check out the actors and actresses other films
    • Ditto for a song you here during a movie
    • And horrors, you might want to research a product you just happened to see an ad for

    There are many uses here.

  15. Ads by dfj225 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An interesting point that the article speaks briefly about is advertising and how advertisers hate Tivo because it can skip adds. The article mentions using Tivo's stat keeping to target a customer more directly and deliever relevant ads. I think this is really the future for advertising, not the static model of current television. For instance, I hate most adds because I'm not interested in what they are selling. I don't care if the newest Maxi pad can absorb a whole pitcher of iced tea, as a male I'm never going to need them. I often find car commercials very, very annoying, but when I was looking for a new car it was uesful to know what companies were having incentives. If ad companies could send me ads about products or television shows that I would be interested in, I think I might actually like to view them. Hopefully services like Tivo will help to bring this about.

    --
    SIGFAULT
  16. Why would I want to pay a subscribtion fee?? by ChinaJoe · · Score: 0, Insightful

    It seems to me that the fee is a total ripoff. Why would I want to pay for something that offers nothing?? Because I want to have shows recorded that I don't want to watch??

    All I want is a glorified VCR and not get ripped off. Why is that sooo hard??

  17. Does TiVo need saving? by YouHaveSnail · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does TiVo really need saving? It's the best PVR around... you plug it in, and it just works. TiVo gets it.

    I heard someone say recently that TiVo is the Macintosh of PVR's. They were talking about ease of use, not market share. As far as I know, TiVo is pretty much the Microsoft of PVR's in terms of market share. Or at least the Dell.

    If TiVo is having financial issues, I don't think it's because of lack of consumer interest or difficulty in selling units. It could well be due to regular, difficult, business issues, like having too many irons in the fire or having to worry about Microsoft's nefarious tactics. I'm sure that the cable companies are trying to horn in on TiVo's market with their various video on demand services, but they tend not to work as well as TiVo anyway.

    But really, TiVo is a great device/service that already does exactly what I want it to do. They don't need to turn it into something else.

  18. Didnt know it needed saving??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TiVo's tenacious market position and profit margins has been a frontpage business story for months now. Great product, yes, but they are in an awkward crossroads businesswise.

    I am very concerned that moving forward TiVO and HD will be largely incompatible.

    The movement of video enthusiasts to HDTV is a massive looming problem, as Tivo has little possibility of distribution of HDTV without a carrier deal, and their only existing one (DirectTV) is a tenuous one at best.

    It has already been regulated that HD signals will be flagged for copyright and all hardware manufacturers will be required by the FCC to honor it by not recording HD flagged with it, which could cast a long shadow over OTA HD recording.

    Cable companies are moving forward with making money off their own (likely lameass) HD cable box PVR solutions, and seemingly have no intention of opening their HD boxes to TiVo access.

    Strangeberry is a solution i search of a problem.

    The problem is HDTV. IMHO, PVR is more important than HDTV, but I sure am tired of watching TiVo programming on my 16:9 42" HDTV - its not pretty, even in Extreme Fine Quality mode.

  19. I got moderated into oblivion for saying this last by tgd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    tivo story, but its still as true now as a week ago.

    MythTV is a nightmare to set up, and there's no company out there that I can buy a pre-configured one from. KnoppMyth may work if you have a certain set of hardware, but my time is far too valuable to spend a week researching the right hardware, buying $500 or $1000 worth of computing equipment and a case suitable for going in my living room, and blowing a day setting it all up.

    If I could buy a decent looking unit that I plugged in and works, then I'd buy one. Until then, I've outgrown the need to blow days at a time playing with that sort of stuff. I enjoy it sometimes, but I'm just plain too busy.

    At $100 for a Tivo, thats maybe an hour or two worth of my time. Hard to compete with that.