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Hardware That Literally Doesn't Stink?
gtaylor writes "You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc? (Wood is not necessarily right if it's glued or varnished.) I have a Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier that is very helpful but the fewer volatile organic chemicals released in the first place, the better. I'll also need a chair (leaning to the Herman Miller Mirra chair) and an adjustable metal/hardwood desk. High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic are also inert enough to be fine if they have no plasticizers - suggestions for a full office set-up welcome."
Everytime I open a box of electronics, the first thing I do is take a wiff.
That new computer smell reminds me of christmas as a kid. Why would anyone get rid of the smell?!?!?
Even ignoring that... i would go get some nasal filters or similar solution if need to, or get some air filtering system for home. Change the world around you vs. change yourself.
Just my 2 cents, from a concerned parent who's been there.
Best. Line. Ever.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Sensibility to volatile compounds is a rare allergy, but it is true. It's not some kind of queer twist. There are people that cannot dress anything but pure,white cotton without having serious, harmful allergies.
I'm allergic,with asthma. My condition is much milder than him, but I indeed suffer inside new cars, for example.
I hate politically correct,so it's nice you joke. But,after,try help him. (I have no clue,sorry).
-- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize
Eat food that dropped the floor. Occasionally sit in uncomfortable chairs. Touch public doorknobs. Eat raw red meat. Don't avoid people with colds. Get some sunshine, exercise. *gasp* Turn off your air purifier.
Try some of these things, maybe your body won't be so goddamn frail. If you eat organic food and live in fear of germs your whole life, when some nasty disease comes along, your body won't be able to cope.
In other words, don't be such a wimp.
If you very sensitive, get a friend to open up all the shrink wrap and let it air out and his/her place. New plastics do outgas but it doesn't last very long.
I think I stopped taking this kind of thing very seriously when I read a study where self-identified MCS sufferers were intentionally exposed to chemicals in a blind test - expose them to chemicals with no detectable odor, and they have no reaction. Expose them to harmless chemicals with a noticeable odor, and they immediately have a "reaction".
I hate to be a bastard, but I think that for the vast majority of "sufferers", the underlying problem is far more likely to be psychological than physiological. Perhaps you should approach it from that perspective.
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
do you think that somebody who decides 'it's the lightbulbs' would have properly ruled that out?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
That said I think we all know the smell of new plastic and it's not that great. Your problem is that you are bother by it, the "new car smell" if you will, only you are FAR more sensitive, right? Well new car smell goes away after a while, after the car has been aired out (it takes a while, obviously). So my first suggestion is to air it out. I would say put it in a big room (have access to a gymnasium?) or some other large space where it will be safe (obviously you can't leave it out in a parking lot). Then set a bunch of fans (or better yet rent or get your hands on one of the HUGE box fans that are used for drying carpet or cheap AC, a Gym would probably have one). Set it up and let it run (make sure there is a source of fresh air, say put the setup to pull air in from a door) and just let it go for a while (a few days maybe?). I would think that (espeically if it's hot, so it all "sweats") would do a great job of fixing it (or at least making it bearable).
My other suggestions would be to try used equiptment. Because it's used, the smell may have already dissapated.
Last is, relocate it. Is that a possibilty for you? Put the PC and such in another room (as much as possible) and run the cords through the wall. That way all you'd need is the keyboard/mouse/monitor, and maybe a diskdrive (say USB/Firewire CD-RW). The less stuff there is, the less the fumes.
As for specific products, I'm not sure what to suggest. You had an idea for a monitor, and someone somewhere must make an aluminum keyboard/mouse. Is rubber much of a problem? You could use one of those rubber keyboards (often designed to roll up or such). They may not be the most comfortable, but it might work.
If rubber does work, you could get a thin paint rubber (must exist if rubber dip exists, although that might work, I know there is a rubber spay can out there) and cover all the part (or at least the surfaces of the plastic parts). That way, you may be able to trap the smell in.
Good luck.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
HYPOCHONDRIAC mean anything to anyone out there???
I dunno if I'd call it "stupid". I work in Healthcare ( respiratory as well, but mostly dealing with sleep medicine instead of allergies ), and people think they understand their bodies pretty well. I mean, they're around them practically all the time, so they sort of consider themselves to be an authority on the subject.
People form a speculative hypothesis on what might be causing their problems, and then their everyday experiences are subtly edited by memory to fit and reinforce these ideas. Not everyone has the understanding of proper eliminative testing, or the discipline, to correctly figure out their problem, or at least some kind of ameliorating behavior, unlike that chicken-dude who's floating around in this thread somewhere. This isn't just a medical problem - people do this in all facets of their lives.
Don't be too harsh on these folks. Nobody likes to feel sick, and even less to not understand what's happening to their body. Reaching out for a hypothesis that they can understand is natural in this situation - it's the job of healthcare professionals to reach through this barrier of uncertainty and provide correct diagnosis and treatment.
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
I just take mine apart and clean it. I'm not gonna throw out my Model M until it dies.
/usr/games/fortune
...go and see a doctor about it?
If it's genuine, nobody will have better resources to identify what's causing the allergy.
If it's psychosomatic, nobody will be better qualified to identify it as such and treat it.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Engineers with common sense? As an engineering student, trust me when I say you have no idea how wrong you are.
Well stop assuming. You've obviously never met anyone like this. I know several, and I'll second BoldAC's opinion.
No one is claiming that there's some serious, or even identifiable, mental health issue in these people. But they do tend to be more than a little high-strung.
Actually, there are many other, better and more precise ways, of putting it; ways I would expect a health care professional to use.
You would only cite the DSM if you were making a proper diagnosis. BoldAC isn't doing that. He has merely made an observation as to a certain personality type. Surely he's as free to do that as anyone else. MDs are allowed to be human beings too, you know.
In any event, allergists to not diagnose psychiatric conditions any more than an psychiatrist ought to be diagnosing allergies.
And the brethren went away edified.
We can joke about this hypochondriac, but the truth is that someday our electronics and other such products will be much more bio-compatible than they are now.
When I recently built a new PC I was amazed at just how much my Antec case smelled. Really, for all these years I've never encountered a case that smelled this bad. I delayed building the PC for a day so I could leave the case outside, in front of a box fan. This got rid of 60% of the smell and made it bearable to take inside. After I got it built I covered it with plastic and some blankets before going to sleep (it was right next to my bed) to try and keep the smell from keeping me awake and boisoning my prain.
People do need to recognize these things as not all being sissy talk. I was staying in a room where someone sprayed some of that indoor bug spray, and the idiots didn't ventilate it. I tried to "tough it out", but I ended up waking up in the middle of the night with numbish burning nostrils. I was tired as hell but I had to leave the house. After that incident I was extremely sensitive to everything, dust, mold/mildew, chemicals, etc and I have no allergies.
Let's face it, our beloved toys are not compatible with our biology. I cannot wait for the day when monitors will be as natural feeling as staring off into the sunset, input devices feeling as fluid as taking a midnight stroll, and the materials being so compatible with me that they regenerate, and if I ever get hungry I could eat them for their high nutritional content.
Until then, I'm just a sacrifice, like the coal miners, or those scientists that discovered radioactivity. I'm young, and yet my wrist and joints will probably completely breakdown soon, my posture is like Mr. Burns, eyes are completely screwed especially after so many years of squinting through sun glare on a CRT with low refresh and EGA gfx, hearing is crap thanks to concerts and nonstop MP3 listening (I swear the compression noise damages ears!), not to mention I sit all day long not getting much exercise or sun. But it's all worth it... right?
Oh well, at least I don't have so much stress due to DOS/old windows BSODs and other such incompatibilities. But I'm sure once I'm 75 and in a nursing home with some mental degenerative disease I'll be blabbering hysterically, "I need to reinstall, it's getting so slow... no... NO!! my sound was working, I know it was, why is it showing up as broken in the device manager! Need new drivers, but it won't detect, oh NO!! BLUE SCREEN!!!!"
These "chemicals" aren't doing anything, and your air-purifier is a placebo.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
It IS taboo. However, I for one am surprised I havn't recieved 5 AC trolls calling me a closeted homo yet.
I figure that this post marks the point where I can no longer run for president. If I ever do, someone will dig it up and insinuate that I'm gay.
The terrible thing about this all is that it means political debate in america is more akin to trolling than intelligent debate. We knew that allready however.
Photos.
It is definitely possible to make yourself physically sick if you are mentally convinced you are sick.
I spent years fighting near constant bouts of nausea. Saw a slew of specialists, had scans, tests, X-rays, pokes, prods, and pills. Nothing helped. After a few years I began to realize it was the situtations I was in that seemed to induce my nausea... gee could it be mental?
Short story: yes. I had(have?) "Social Phobia" before it was the cool thing (like ADHD that every third kid has). The damnest thing is that once I knew what was wrong, and was positive my feeling sick was purely in my head, I discovered it was still impossible to not feel "sick" sometimes. It's just like being scared of flying. You can be on a plane and rationally know that you are safer than in your car, but still be terrified at the same time.
My feeling is that a lot of these MCS people just freak out when they smell something "odd". I doubt there is a single treatment to snap these people out of their loop. Therarpy did nothing for my problem, but the slightest taste of an SSRI drug fixed me like flipping a switch. For other people, drugs just make them feel nasty, and talking things out helps.
The point is, I think there is something wrong with people who "have" MCS, and it can be serious, but no amount of avoid the "bad chemicals" is going to help them.
Take two, call me in the morning. Don't sue. No for use with certain sets, your mileage may vary...
Hypochondriacs do.
People with multiple chemical sensitivity are usually depressed, and reject suggestions by attending doctors that they see a psychologist, dismissing it as patronizing- they're truly offended and think the doctor is dismissing their claims, when the doctor is actually recognizing someone who's depressed and regardless of physical symptoms, needs to see a trained psychologist.
MCS also is almost always self-diagnosed; patients come to doctors claiming they have it. That is a hallmark of invented diseases and hypochondriacs.
The chemicals leeched off by plastics- and particularly vinyl in cars and the like- are very toxic, actually- but the simple solution is to air out the object in question. Put the keyboard on your porch or something for a few days or something, or for chrissakes, leave the window open.
Please help metamoderate.
Somedays Im an idiot....
....If you drive a car you alread loose, almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior is polypropylene; include the abs/pc, PMMA, PE and the NON fascia PP; the TPE's etc, and the ammount is even higher.
"I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior of a car is polypropylene; include the ABS/PC." (I DID proof read it too... duh!)
should be
Well, rant and we shall be punished...
jak.
WTF? Have you ever TRIED referring a multiple sensitivity disorder patient to a psychiatrist??
That's the entire point of their disorder! They don't WANT to believe that it's "all in their head" and if you suggest as much, they will find another doctor who isn't so discriminating. (ie, a doctor who will take their word.)
Seriously, why that chair over say a wood chair with fabric upholstery? That Herman Miller chair has got to be 85+% plastic. Or, is it just becuase the website for the chair mentions "95% recyclability" and that phrase somehow magically makes you immune to the fact that the Mirra chair is going to contain quite a few of the chemicals you say make you "sick".
It's easy to complain that doctors don't treat patients "holistically", but mistakes in this area are unforgivable. You can thank our legal system for that. As a result, doctors dare not treat patients for conditions outside their specialized areas of expertise. Not if they want to stay in practice, that is.
You'll find that doctors generally have little say in who comes to them. In extreme cases they will refuse further treatment, but usually they make a good-faithg effort to treat a patient for the complaints they bring forward. But when a patient refuses necessary tests, refuses to acknowledge true causes for her complaints, and possibly even refuses a suggestion for psychiatric treatment -- what can a doctor do but throw up his hands over it?
It's easy to be cynical from where you sit, of course, but if you ever knew any actual doctors personally you'd know that by and large they'd be perfectly happy never to see another hypochondriac again. But they dare not turn them away just on the off-chance it's something real this time. You can thank our legal system for that too.
And the brethren went away edified.
I've just got to poke my nose in here, as this is a pet peave of mine. The abstract you linked to was able to find three significant digits of results in their survey of 32 people. This is a classic example of why an extra large dose of skepticism is warranted when it comes to psychologists and others in the "soft sciences" publishing statistical research.
-Steve
Democracy is a poor substitute for liberty.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw
Well sorry, but I've got to jeez back at you on this guy's behalf.
It's all well and good to talk about treating patients holistically and recognizing the mind-body connection, but how do you propose that a medical school-trained allergist actually implement this in their examining room?
Obviously this discussion is only relevant in a situation where a patient presents symptoms that, after a series of scientific tests (such as time-tested skin scratch-tests for a wide variety of allergens) are not consistent with the scientific findings. So you, as the doctor, now have a patient compaining of multiple allergic symptoms that defy definition in any scientific (and scientifically treatable) way. What's your next move with this patient?
You seem to be suggesting that an enlightened doctor sit down with the patient and say this:
Is that about right?
Well I hate to break it to you, doctors do that all the time. Perhaps not always with that level of finesse, but some doctors are more articulate than others and saying things the right way comes more naturally for them, just like anyone in any profession.
My point is that doctors do that so often that an even more pervasive cliche in the doctor-patient relationship than your "unfeeling science wonk doctor" is the "I went to the doctor and he told me it was all in my head." cliche.
I think your main point is right, that doctors need to have respect for the fact that people are bundles of shifting complexity between mind and body. But I would like to make a similar entreaty that patients treat their doctors with a little respect, both for the time they've put in learning a huge bulk of collected knowledge, and in how much sincere thought and care they put into their patients' diagnosis. If a doctor says that you might consider the mind portion of the mind-body equation, you owe it to them to consider it, and follow through on their recommendations, or ask for more recommendations if they don't work.
Doctors understand the mind/body relationship more personally than you give them credit for, since they can test the body. If all those tests come up negative, then there's only one thing left. . .
The only acceptable defense of scientific results is to say that they were the product of the Scientific Method.
a doctor who will take their word, and their money...
I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
Give the cat a bath once a week. Our cat is a long-hair and sheds all the time, even more in summer of course.
No science at all. Audiophilia is rife with astonishing scams.
You nor BoldAC have probably never had allergies yourselves. I have two little boys who have severe allergies to many things. When they are exposed to allergens, they turn red and puff up. They have each experienced severe attacks that required hospitalization. These are definitely not imagined. As their parents, we are very cautious and possibly by your definition high-strung. With a possible life or death situation on your hands it's no wonder many allergy sufferers are a bit high-strung.
Let me guess. You were "very cautious" even before they developed any allergies. You cleaned your house with bactericides so it was like a frickin' insulation tent. Guess what?
You're guilty, they have those life-threatening allergies because of YOUR overblowing. Your little boys never had a contact with stuff real world is full of, their bodies never learned to deal with it - and then, whammo, someone with "unwashed hands" from the outside comes, exposing your little angels without immune systems to small part of the world, and you're trying to put the blame on them.
Even outgrowing supports it. They go out now, instead of spending time only in your little shining-white disinfected home, they get exposed to stuff, build up a tolerance for it, just like normal people do from the beginning, people that don't end up with allergies.