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Hardware That Literally Doesn't Stink?
gtaylor writes "You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc? (Wood is not necessarily right if it's glued or varnished.) I have a Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier that is very helpful but the fewer volatile organic chemicals released in the first place, the better. I'll also need a chair (leaning to the Herman Miller Mirra chair) and an adjustable metal/hardwood desk. High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic are also inert enough to be fine if they have no plasticizers - suggestions for a full office set-up welcome."
I found woodbin.com after a quick google search.
The part of the computer that 'smells' the worst is the part you can replace. The case dosn't smell like anything it's the mother board that gives off the most odor and mostly when its hot. If you don't want the stink buy an old well used MOBO the funk should be gone from it. Also you could keep the case open and have lots of air moving around to keep it cooler and not the the funk build up so much. I know what your talking about I just bought a new mobo and P.U.
I am a practicing allergist and I have found that most people with multiple environmental allergies are just a little mental. Sorry, there is no other way of saying it.
I am NOT suggesting that all people are like that... just most. So I hope the person who submitted the question doesn't get offended.
As an allergy doc, let me suggest something before you kill yourself with this stuff. Just go see an allergic specialist in your area. We can skin test for almost every known allergic substance to man. Plus, as the medline article that you referenced (which says nothing about computer/electronic smells) suggests, you may have asthma if these smells are making your feel poorly.
Reading from your website it appears that you may believe you have chronic fatigue syndrome as well. Is there some connection between multiple environmental sensitivies and chronic fatigue? It would be odd for you to have two rare diseases.
Try E45
"I hope the OP wasn't really expecting to get useful feedback out of this question"
Who would have guessed that Slashdot would be a poor place to get medical advice?
I figure keyboards are like oil in a car, you should just replace them every 2-3 months.
For 15-20 bucks a pop I enjoy having fully responsive keys without all that scarey shit lurking a half inch from my fingers all day.
Kind of like swimming in the open ocean with god knows what lurking in the depths just below you.
You never bought CDRs with cyanide in them.
It's cyanine, not cyanide. Similar name, completely different chemical.
Cyanine = coloured dye
Cyanide = deadly poison
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
You may want to talk with an industrial hygienist for a more authoritative response. (IANAIH)
Keyboard & mouse are tough, but perhaps something ruggedized for public terminals -external components made mostly of metal with silicone seals. I fear that they will be expensive though. As for the machine itself, if the suggestions above about letting the system "air out" are not adequate, get a mini system and place it in a sealed NEMA enclosure. If needed this could be vented outside your work area using "dryer vent" techniques (like a home clothes dryer}. This would probably cost several hundred dollars, but if done properly would completely isolate you from any chemical contamination originating in the enclosed system.
I think it likely that many cords and cables will have significant plasticiser content.
I'm sure you don't really want to hear the following question, but is your sensitivity purely physiological? Can you determine which specific substances or classes of substance are incompatible with your well-being?
Come on, this isn't April 01 yet.
These "multiple chemical sensitivity" frauds are just poorly-veiled attention whores, seeking out ways to get people to fawn over their "troubles".
If you'll follow this asshat's website url, you'll notice he also has "chronic fatigue syndrome". If that doesn't spell "hypochondriac bullshitter" to you, then you need to get your BS detector adjusted.
Assuming that's true, and that by "mental" you mean having mental health difficulties, it could suggest:
Actually, there are many other, better and more precise ways, of putting it; ways I would expect a health care professional to use.
Problem being, new substances are being released into our environment all them time, and their actions on the body - especially in combination - aren't fully "known to man". (Which is not to say anything about this persons complaints, or the isssue of MCS in general.)
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Canadians (I'm one) don't wait three years for minor surgeries. yes there are waits. and YES there are problems with our healthcare system - of that we have no illusion. but let's get a few things straight.
1. we spend (are you ready for this?) LESS by a huge margin, than the US on healthcare (per capita). one reason is that we have 10 insurance systems (one for each province) not the hundreds (if not thousands) of carriers in the US. and of course each hospital has billing, collections etc etc. we don't. we've centralised it.
2. All our residents and citizens are covered. anyone, anywhere in this country can go to a hospital and get care. no bull. and the same care our rich and famous get, i get.
3. this actually ain't socialism. it's good economic practice. There is a term (which i forget) but the meaning is that it makes good policy sense to have a particular thing administered at teh lowest level that makes sense. so for example, (in government) cities take care of garbage collection, States take care of highways and the feds handle, say, the military.
Why? because for the feds to do garbage collection, or for the city to have an army is just daft and will create more problems than it solves. healthcare is actually something that can be handled Better and MORE EFFICENTLY by a government created agency. because one of the basic principals of insurance is that the more people over whom you amortize the risks, the safer and more effective your insurance.
blah blah blah
All to say really that before y'all cast aspersions on this crazy canuck commie idea of 'free' health insurance, check yer facts. yes our system has broken bits. but beleive me, waiting nearly a year for, say, arthroscopic surgery on your knee to fix a running injury (um, let's just say it was a 'friend' i know) at truly one of the best hospitals in the world, by a guy who was among those who invented/perfected the procedure was fine by me. considering it was NOT a life threatening injury, and IT COST ME NOTHING!!!
happy election!!
"High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic"
(warning, I am about to rant again, one of those weeks)
Polymers such as Polypropylene are not just popular with Ikea, there is a good change damn near every white good in your house; most of your car and several of your brown goods are mostly polypropylene (PP) (toilet seats/cisterns even in some countries); your outdoor furniture is almost certainly PP if it isnt metal and glass; maybe even have polyamide (see rant below) cushions. Im certain the top of your washing machine is polypropylene unless it is one of the very new (recently trendy) aluminium exterior or an industrial steel construction one.
Lets not forget the ABS/PC (Acrylonitrile butadiene Styrene/Poly Carbonate) Alloys often used in computer equipment and cars and most "finished" (painted or electroplated) polymer products; "Acrylic" (sic), perhaps you mean PMMA (Poly Methyl Methacrylate); like most of the non-glass drinkware in your house?? That woodgrain in your car, unless it is a VERY EXPENSIVE luxury vehicle, it is almost certainly cubic printed PC/ABS (mercedes owners, sit down, most of yours are cubic printed too). The lenses of your sunglasses/glasses are almost certainly Poly Carbonate or, worse, a thermoset polymer; more volatiles!!! (used in production, but, being volatiles, long past outgassed) oh no!!!.
As for plasticisers; except for FLEXIBLE polymers (like the TPE's used on your mouse wheel and your toothbrush), manufacturers try to avoid volatile plasticisers as they outgas and cause defects during processing; indeed, correct processing of rigid thermoplastics tends to ensure all volatiles are outgassed during processing. If they dont outgas at the 200~300 degrees C they are processed at, they wont at room temperature!!!
Your car's Instrument Panel is almost certainly skinned with a TPE that will outgas volatiles. Either that or painted with a soft feel paint, once again, it will outgas volatiles. Why do you think you need to clean the inside of your winshield so often??
Do you use a latex or synthetic pillow?? or blanket/quilt/doona/comforter(insert name for said from your country here)... more polymers with volatile plasticisers.
I am fairly certain, in fact, that your computer is the LEAST LIKELY item in your home/life to produce volatiles which make you sick/cause allergic reaction. Unless dust/fluid from YOUR ENVIRONMENT is frying on heatsinks etc...
Do you wear ALL COTTON/WOOL clothes??? well, bugger me if you arent wearing plasticised poly amide filaments ("Nylon" or "polyester"); your toothbrush bristles are made of similar materials. Even your toothpaste probably comes out of a PET (Poly Ethylene Teripthalate) or PE (poly ethylene) or PP receptacle.
Hell, the shelves in your fridge are likely to be PMMA or PC if they arent steel mesh. Im fairly certain you have a Poly Ethylene chopping board in your house and drink your favourite soft drink or fruit juice from a PET bottle (oh! no, plastic!!!) bottle.
Bloody hell, whilst we do tear shit out of the enviroment using fossil fuels to create these polymers (although recycling helps, ALOT, you all should do it or lobby your local council/government to do it; takes maybe 5 minutes out of your day); they are so all pervasive that suggesting the use of plasticised polymers in your computer or doped ceramics is making you sick. Lacquered wood or coated metals are just as likely to outgas if heated as many polymers...
What a crock; most allergy specialists would look for OBVIOUS causes first... dust, dust mites, pollen... And even if it *IS* from polymer additives (not plasticisers, these are far from common in rigid polymers), your computer hardware is almost certainly the SMALLEST contributor.
I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almos
In any case, you're doing what I've seen too many doctors do: you're avoiding dealing with issues you have no patience for, and doing so by stereotyping some of your patience as wackos. I guess it's OK for Rush Limbaugh to do that with Liberals, but a physician has no business with that kind of intellectual laziness.
Finally, you need to educate yourself on the whole mind-body thing. A perfectly sane person can think themselves into all kinds of immunological difficulties. There's plenty of stuff in the literature about people who get hayfever from being around artificial flowers.
And then there's me and cigarette smoke. I get the nastiest headaches from the slightest whif. Not suprising, since my skin tests for tobacco produce whelts the size of raisins. But then why do I get these same headaches from watching Bogart movies?
I work for a computer manufacturer and one of the test we do is plastic outgasing. Basically we measure how much chemicals are being released into the air over time from plastic parts. The limits for this have been changing and so have the plastics. Many of the new plastics have very low outgasing. These should start showing up soon, if not already.
Now we don't have much issue with this in my division (server) because everything is made out metal except for a few small fillers, etc.
P.S. That film you get on inside of your car window. That is your dash outgasing chemicals.
CFS is not very well understood, but the CDC does have some criteria that can be used to diagnose CFS.
There is some recent research (International Journal of Epidemiology, 2004 Jul 15) that indicates that at least some folks with MCS may have a genetic predisposition -- certain genes help regulate how the body inactivates toxins, and a correlation was detected between folks with MCS and those with certain PON* and NAT* genotypes (or whatever -- I'm a geek, not a geneticist!). That gives a good explanation why some folks' bodies just can't deal with what the rest of us shrug off.
One explanation for the effect this has that you can find on the web is that with CFS, the immune system is hyperactive, so when you get exposed to something like a very fragrant shampoo :), your body kicks in, and it's like you have the flu -- lethargy, muscle and body pain, etc. If I'm remembering right, it's similar to how allergies work -- your body starts producing histamines to counter what it sees as an invader, but overdoes it, causing congestion/sneezing/headaches/etc., and causing some great financial results for the makers of Allegra, Sudafed, etc.
My wife got a skin rash last weekend from some fragrance-laced (saturated!) water that got spilled on a restroom countertop -- that's not hypochondria! And my toddler son gets hives (little red bumps on his skin) if he eats wheat products. (We've carefully done numerous experiments to prove, to my engineering satisfaction, that wheat is the key. This isn't a one-time occurrence, but a proven pattern.) I don't know of anyone who can use their brain, consciously or unconsciously, to make these kinds of physical manifestations occur.
So while I can't speak about whether your relatives are nuts :), I can say that there are at least some folks who aren't nuts, and there are at least some folks (but not very many) in the medical community that are working on helping these folks.
BTW, the Seabiscuit book author has CFS as well -- if she's a hypochondriac, she's managed to fool quite a lot of people.
Desktop: Power Mac G5 with Cinema Display
Laptop: PowerBook G4
You answered your own question.
My understanding is that increased exposure to certain chemicals causes increased sensitivity. I know a guy who had a latex allergy that got progressively worse as he worked in a lab with rubber gloves. It got so bad that he had to change careers.
Your recommendation should be taken with great caution. Similarly, I wouldn't try to build up a tolerance to urushiol (the irritating oil in poison ivy).
Really, really don't.
E45 is made from Lanolin.
Now, if you read the label carefully, it claims it's "hypo-allergenic" lanolin.
That's a bunch of crap.
If you have an allergy related dermatitis, do _not_ use E45, or other lanolin based emollient. You end up with exposure to lanolin, and it is liklely that you will develop an allergic reacion to the lanolin.
That's what happend to me. Atopic dermatisis (aka eczema), and after about 8 months, I'd developed an allergy to lanolin so severe that I'd rather pour sulphuric acid over my skin, than put lanolin near it.
Now, you (the grandparent) may be lucky, and not become sensised to lanolin. It's not worth the risk - I can't handle most new woolen goods, because the traces of lanolin are there.
E45 is fine if you have unbroken, but dry, skin. That's not the case for people with chronic dermatitis.
What you actually want is aqueaus cream, or emulsifying ointment. Ask your pharmacist, they're about 1/3 the price for 4 times the volume, more effective, and not going to bite you in the ass later on.
Most soaps contain cow urine.
No, many soaps contain urea. It's not cow urine, although it is *found* in cow urine. It's also found in pretty much any other kind of urine, hence the name. It's not actually made from urine.
The short answer:
requiring a speeding trip to the hospital (in which adrenneline was used to kill the swelling
Your friend might want to get an Epipen if he doesn't already have one. It's a self-injectable dose of epinephrine (adrenaline).
Could supply you literally with a framework to build on. Not overly expensive either, though all the (aluminium) elements add up ...
MB Building Kit System
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Trim the claws first. Use a nail clipper. It can still bite though. But with care they accept it, some even enjoy a bath. from all the loose hair that you'll find in the drain you can see that you've cut down the allergens.
Perhaps the author of this post should do some research into what exactly ozone does. By and far, the interaction between the ozone created by the Plasmacluster and the paint, carpet, wall coverings, etc., will produce far worse chemicals than will ever come off the computer.
Seriously, what does ozone do? It breaks down plastics & other petroleum based products. Where do the chemicals created from the breakdown go? Do they stick to the metal plates in the ozone maker, or do they hang out in the air for awhile? Try this; take two brand new rubber bands. Place one in a ziplock bag, seal it very well and hang it on the Plasmacluster. Take the other rubber band and hang directly on the Plasmacluster, unprotected. Presumably they'd be exposed to the same amount of UV since a ziplock bag has no UV inhibitors. So the only difference between the two would be the exposure to ozone.
Check back in a month or so. Stretch each rubber band out and see what happens. Where'd all those chemicals from the brittle rubber-band go? As items off-gas from the reaction with ozone, those gasses hang out until they get trapped by either the Plasmacluster or something else in the room like your lungs.
This is not good advice for peanut allergy sufferers. Peanut allergies are the most severe food allergy to humans, even worse than shellfish or eggs. Peanut allergies kill 50 to 100 Americans each year. Even ingesting half a peanut will put most sufferers into anaphylactic shock.
The most advanced vaccine research requires monthly injections and has been shown to increase this tolerance to 9 peanuts before anaphylactic shock occurs. It does not appear likely that sufferers will ever be able to purposefully eat peanuts, though it may prevent an emergency room visit or death.
Have you ever seen "May contain traces of peanuts" or seen a sign at Dairy Queen warning that peanuts are used? Airlines are required to accomodate peanut allergy sufferers with peanut-free flights. United Airlines no longer offers peanuts on any flights because of this.
Peanut allergies affect 1.3% of the general population. Siblings of sufferers are 7% likely to also be allergic. Mothers are advised to avoid peanuts during pregnancy and breastfeeding, as well as to avoid giving peanuts to children until they are three years old.
I have been allergic my entire life and have had some scary moments. I've been rushed to the emergency room, and have needed to inject myself with epinephrine. Please understand that your advice does not apply to everyone.
Adversive
My cat's breath smells like cat food.