Locus Interviews Neal Stephenson

Embedded Geek writes "Locus, the trade magazine of Science Fiction, has an interview with Neal Stephenson in their August issue. Excerpts can be found here. A teaser: 'The world of the 'Baroque Cycle' happens to be 99% factual history, or as close as I can come to it, but what readers of this kind of fiction are looking for is the ability to become immersed in a different world. That's why there is a big crossover between historical fiction and SF.' An interesting read for his long time fans or anyone just wondering what all the fuss is about." So this is a teaser for a teaser, but this makes me want to shell out the $8.

Comments

Interview with Neil

[Anonymous Coward]

At a guess the interview is overlong, never really gets anywhere, and has no real substance.

Re:Interview with Neil

[sideshow]

And has sex scenes that are by far the most uncomfortable to read. Sounds like Stephenson to me all right.

Re:Interview with Neil

[tehcyder]

So, a comment from someone who has not read the interview, and has almost certainly never read any of Stephenson's books is funny now on slashdot?

Oh well, at least it wasn't modded as insightful.

Re:Interview with Neil

[Mateito]

I'd rather read a Neil Stephenson sex scene than a Steven Donaldson one. The latter has a decidely unhealty obsession with rape (in both the Thomas Covernant and The Gap series)

Re:Interview with Neil

[Anonymous Coward]

>I'd rather read a Neil Stephenson sex scene than a Steven Donaldson one. The latter has a decidely unhealty obsession with rape (in both the Thomas Covernant and The Gap series)

that's because Stephen Donaldson was brutally arrested during a civil protest, put in a cell with known rapists by the vindicative police , raped, beaten, contracted HIV, and later died of AIDS. He writes about rape to educate people on the horror of it.

Can't recall where I read about this. I think it was from an article about him written by one of his friend who is also an author.

Re:Interview with Neil

[starflt]

that's because Stephen Donaldson was brutally arrested during a civil protest,

Can't vouch for the validity of this

put in a cell with known rapists by the vindicative police , raped, beaten, contracted HIV,

Or that

and later died of AIDS.

However, I can state that this was not true as of June 2004, having met the man at Elohimfest, a Donaldson fan gathering.

He writes about rape to educate people on the horror of it.

Possibly, but I'm quite sure that's not his primary focus. Don't have the audio available, but I seem to recall Donaldson mentioning rape as a sort of shorthand, an abstraction the of worst-possible-deprivation of value of another human being.

Crossover between historical fiction and Sci-Fi

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that why the Sci-Fi Channel shows Braveheart?

Getting slow already,

[Anonymous Coward]

Google cache

Baroque Cycle

[JTWYO]

I've really enjoyed Neal's previous books, but I find the Baroque Cycle books to be a little too long-winded and exposition-heavy. It's almost like he suffered through all this research to write the books, so now he's going to make the reader suffer through it too. I just didn't find the first one to move very well under the weight of all that explaining.

I still consider Snow Crash to be a classic, though, precisely for how light on it's proverbial feet it is.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[0111 1110]

I wasn't too thrilled with Snow Crash. I did read it though. For me Cryptonomicon was his great work. I have read that book so many times and was breathlessly awaiting the "prequel", Quicksilver. What a letdown. It didn't have any of the spirit of the original. None of the humour or the witty, clever conversations. I found it to have no redeeming features. I was shocked. I haven't bothered to even skim his latest one.

What annoys me far more than any long windedness is the characters themselves. Particularly that female, beautiful, intelligent, clever, wise, and otherwise completely perfect human creature that became some kind of main character by the name of Eliza. Grrrr. Sounds to me like his wife was doing the writing or something. Soon after "meeting" her I longed to see her die a grisly death.

I had liked all of his previous female characters, but Eliza was a totally one dimensional PerfectFemale. Yawn. She was also totally portrayed like a modern American Woman which is very very far from the reality at the time. Actually some of his other female characters in the book don't fare much better. Eighteenth century my arse! I wouldn't be surprised if they were all just carbon copies of his wife's basic personality.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Daleks]

I never touched Baroque Cycle because Quicksilver made me want to stab my eyes out with a dull spoon. Eventually I just snapped after Stephenson felt he had to described the cityscape of London for the zillionth time. Cryptonomicon was fun, but it's as if he took the worst of that book and magnified it to create Quicksilver.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[sapbasisnerd]

I still consider Snow Crash to be a classic, though, precisely for how light on it's proverbial feet it is. Based on that I might actually give it a try. I found Cryptonomicon to be 300 pages of good ideas and potential wrapped in 600 pages of selfindulgent crap. If ever Stephenson gets an editor who can keep the latter in check or learns to self edit (little hope of that) he could be a very good author...

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Scrameustache]

I never touched Baroque Cycle because Quicksilver made me want to stab my eyes out with a dull spoon.

I'm curious, is it its very existance that angers you? Because if, as you said, you "never touched" the Baroque Cycle, then how, pray tell, would you know that he "described the cityscape of London for the zillionth time" or "took the worst of [Cryptonomicon] and magnified it to create Quicksilver"?

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Saint Aardvark]

Huh...I have loved everything I've read by NS: Snow Crash, Diamond Age (though the ending did leave me going "WTF?"), Cryptonomicon, Quicksilver and The Confusion.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents after seeing a bunch of pans of The Baroque Cycle. I will be getting The System of the World as soon as I possibly can.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[TheAcousticMotrbiker]

I wasn't too thrilled with Snow Crash. I did read it though. For me Cryptonomicon was his great work. I have read that book so many times and was breathlessly awaiting the "prequel", Quicksilver. What a letdown. It didn't have any of the spirit of the original. None of the humour or the witty, clever conversations. I found it to have no redeeming features. I was shocked. I haven't bothered to even skim his latest one.

To each his own &c &c.
The whole royal society bit can be a bit too geeky I guess, but I found both books an excellent read

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Bullet-Dodger]

Yes well, to each his own. Personally I found that extra 600 pages so interesting, funny and well written that I didn't mind at all.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[sgt_doom]

I like Stephenson, he's a nice guy and his non-fiction articles are enjoyable. But as far as s.f. goes, he's no Iain Banks. Really - there's just no comparison. In fact, as far as good s.f. writers go, he's really mediocre. His book premised on offshore data havens was good on WWII fictional story-telling, but weak on other points, and really petered out at the end.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[stevesliva]

I liked Quicksilver, and I liked The Confusion, but then again, I like novels by Michener, Wouk, Uris, and Clavell.

If you want novels that read like a movie script, read Crichton.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[ThousandStars]

Although I could be wrong, I think the grandparent means that he read Quicksilver and isn't going to touch the rest of the Baroque cycle because Quicksilver is so bad.

Incidentally, I suspect my reaction is similar to his and many other posters: awe at Cryptonomicon, which is a fantastic work, followed by steadily building excitement for the release of Quicksilver, which disappoints so much that I will not be fooled again.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Scrameustache]

You know, I was a bit disaponted that Quicksilver wasn't as incredibly good as Cryptonomicon, but I took it philosophically: Cryptonomicon isn't any worse because of it, and I was just hyping it in my own mind.

But after having read Quicksilver and the Confusion, I re-read the beginning of Cryptonomicon, and I loved it even more because I now know the backgrond f the characters and it makes it much more interresting.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Nspace13]

i agree that he sometimes get a little long winded in description in quicksilver which i'm still reading right now. the only other book of his i read was snow crash. i read the first 2 pages of cryptonomicon and gave up cause i just didn't feel like reading it at the time, so i read a vonnegut book instead. sometimes when he gets especially over the top in description i just scan several paragraphs ahead til soemthing actually happens. this makes the book much more enjoyable. i'll probably read the rest of the baroque cycle too, but thats just because my fiancee brings the advance copies home from work for me free. i definitely won't read them straight through though, that would be overkill.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Anonymous Coward]

Eliza was a totally one dimensional PerfectFemale.

A manipulative, self-interested, greedy, morally suspect tramp is your idea of the perfect female?

She was also totally portrayed like a modern American Woman which is very very far from the reality at the time . . . Eighteenth century my arse!

Hmm. Different people enjoy different things. Eliza, like all of the "main" characters, male or female, was indeed totally anachronistic in attitude. It was obviously deliberate; personally, I found it entertaining.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[David Gould]

"took the worst of [Cryptonomicon] and magnified it to create Quicksilver"

Subtle but important difference: I'd say it's more that he took some of the best of Cryptonomicon, and magnified it to such an obscene degree in Quicksilver that, like too much of any good thing, it became almost unbearable. (Okay, not the very best elements of Cryptonomicon, but it was good stuff.)

I was pretty disappointed by Quicksilver, though I wouldn't say I quite "hated" it, and the rest of the Baroque Cycle is still on my list. I'm interested enough to want to see where he goes with it, and I'm sure it'll be "bearable" at worst. Put it this way: a couple years ago, a friend tricked me into reading David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest and, while I still haven't quite forgiven him, I figure if I could survive that, I can handle anything.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[ThousandStars]

Well, one can't account for taste, and I could understand how someone would like the detail and in-jokes from the period: but overall, as another poster said, the book came off as too "cute". The worst part is that I think that, somewhere in Quicksilver, a winner exists -- perhaps it still wouldn't measure up to Cryptonomicon, but it could still be worth reading.

Re:Baroque Cycle

[Daleks]

Yep, that's what I meant. I don't see how I could've meant anything else. Anyways, Cryptonomicon had ungodly prose in some parts, but it was always fun. It always had pace. Remember the part where Randy's (modern geek?) grandfather was dueling with his WW2 duffel bag? Quicksilver had none of those moments, or at least the first 200 pages didn't.

If you said, "Who?"

[zaxios]

For those who, like me, hadn't heard of this guy, a quick Googling turned this, this book page and this interview up. Also, an author profile.

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Jezuz, ya'll kant evin carmah hore propurly!

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[jericho4.0]

I discovered him through /. Cryptonomicon was the best book I've read in years. Action, suspense, historical acuracy, math, and computers. The Diamond Age was also stunningly good. Quicksilver wasn't very good, and I havn't yet read Snow Crash, but I've heard good things.

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[plover]

Heh. Most of us consider Snow Crash to be his his defining work. I almost felt like The Diamond Age was the penance I had to sit through for enjoying Snow Crash so much, that's how much better Snow Crash is than his other work.

It's that good.

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[BigHungryJoe]

I love Neal Stephenson, even the Big U, but holy shit Diamond Age was bad.

I've already pre-ordered System of the World, the Baroque series is utterly compelling.

Here's what I would like to know after reading The Confusion - can one really extract phosphorus from urine?

bhj

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[Zerth]

Yes, about a gram or so
Here's a whole bunch on phosphorus

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[Anonymous Coward]

You should read more. Snow Crash wasn't that great, and The Diamond Age was completely stupid.

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[damiangerous]

For those who, like me, hadn't heard of this guy

Hey, welcome to your first day at Slashdot!

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[mattdm]

Hmm. I dunno what to say to that except: Quicksilver was damn well very good. Much better than Cryptonomicon, when you figure in things like "the plot".

The Diamond Age I really like in concept, but that whole drummers subplot (no, wait, main plot) is just silly.

But really, you should stop reading slashdot right now and go get Snow Crash, because, sheesh. :)

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[plover]

I think Snow Crash started with one of the best hooks ever. Yeah, it deteriorated a bit with the whole falabala thing but it was still a really fun read. He had a lot of brand new ideas in that book, and wrapped them up in a lot of good humor. And he tied it close enough to reality that I'm hoping he's wrong about the future of America.

Like I said before, I considered The Diamond Age my penance for enjoying Snow Crash so much. (Penance is not a good thing, lest you think I enjoyed it at all.) It had some good sci-fi nanotech ideas, but pointlessly delved into funky religions, as does a lot of his writing at some point or another. Since I consider all religions quite offensive, and fervent believers of any faith to be slime equal to the Taliban, I find a made-up religion that's clearly designed to shock mainstream Christians even more offensive than usual. Note my choice of the word "offensive," not "interesting." The two concepts are not interrelated; at least not to me. Anyway, the book was tedious, and I vaguely remember bothering to finish it, hoping it would come back to something interesting. Nothing but disappointment there.

Cryptonomicon was OK, but it was a five-page plot wrapped in a 220 page story that was then action-packed into a 900+ page novel. At least it lacked the bullsh!t religious overtones of his other works. But Neal sure has a penchant for overstuffing a pair of covers. He either gets paid by the word, or gets serious kickbacks from the pulpwood industry. The guy definitely needs a more ruthless editor.

As for Quicksilver, well, it's an interesting setting, and I enjoyed a lot of the book. I consider it his second-best behind Snow Crash. Again he brings a couple of whack religious nuts into the story -- however, this time it's based on the historical reality of the powerful churches of the time, rather than some made-up tribal drum sh!t. I'm able to tolerate these fruits insofar as they add to the historical flavor, but I really don't have to get into their rituals to get to know them. And I really don't like seeing them ever take center stage. Other than that, the book had interesting ideas and a captivating setting. It certainly gave me more of an appreciation of the early scientists, and how much we really owe them for their groundbreaking work.

So yeah, I know I should read more than I do. Yikes, I just checked my shelf for the books stacked after Quicksilver. There are over two dozen technical books, nine history books (WWII and codebreaking, mostly,) four current events / political books, and three home improvement books. Sheesh. I need a vacation that doesn't involve tiling a bathtub, laying a brick walkway or siding a house.

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[RaymondRuptime]

can one really extract phosphorus from urine?

Yup. In fact, if you feed your dog the right balance of dry food, he or she will produce a very nicely phosphorous urine that will make your grass greener than you can imagine. You could always tell how far from the tree my dogs chain could reach by looking at the lawn!

Re:If you said, "Who?"

[halowolf]

...and I havn't yet read Snow Crash...

I read Snow Crash about 1.5 years ago now and I think its a book that would of been better read when it was released rather than now. I did enjoy it, but it didn't seem quite so revolutionary now as it may of appeared then.

Good author

[bgackle]

I think I'd read anything by a guy that is able to make a mathematical plot out of the main character's labido.

Re:Good author

[Anonymous Coward]

the main character's labido

Is that a Freudian mix of labia and libido?

Re:Good author

[Anonymous Coward]

No. You're misunderestimating the man.

Re:Good author

[bgackle]

No... it's a really ugly mix of "laid" and "BO".

Never a good combination

Re:Good author

[freshmkr]

I think I'd read anything by a guy that is able to make a mathematical plot out of the main character's labido. (sic.)

Something Thomas Pynchon also did in Gravity's Rainbow. (Scroll to "Poisson Distribution"). Also google for "slothrop poisson" (no quotes). Pynchon is worthwhile reading, IMHO, though a little bit harder to get through than anything Stevenson wrote...

--Tom

Re:Good author

[Anonymous Coward]

OMFG ROTF and shiting my pants at how funny that is!

Re:Good author

[child_of_mercy]

Holy Crap dude!

Gravity's Rainbow is the hardest book in modern literature.

It's geeky yes, but it's not geek friendly.

Re:Good author

[RaymondRuptime]

No, I think that's Frodo's nephew.

Re:Good author

[$rtbl_this]

Gravity's Rainbow is the hardest book in modern literature.

I'd hold off on that judgement until you've looked at Finnegans Wake. At least Gravity's Rainbow is written in a recognisable human language!

Spam spam spam!

[spellraiser]

Says Mr. Stephenson:

Spam is another thing kind of like the electric guitar, though it's much darker, less palatable. Clearly the people who originated the technology never in their wildest dreams could have imagined that everyone on Earth who has e-mail would get 30 penis enlargement advertisements a day!

30? Everyone? Hah! I don't get nearly that much spam to my brand-new gmail account, spellraiser@gmail.com ...

...

Oh crap!

Re:Spam spam spam!

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet the guys who invented the internet would have never predicted karma whoring either ;)

/good-natured dig in the rib

Re:Spam spam spam!

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly enough, they did predict both Natalie Portman and hot grits being poured into pants.

But they never did predict the underwear gnomes, and had no inkling as to the conditions in Soviet Russia.

Re:For the slashdotted

[Anne_Nonymous]

Your $8.00 just wants to be free.

That is a great article..

[joeldg]

I think my favorite part of that article was this:

The analogy (which I've used a lot before) is to the electric guitar. Thomas Edison made electricity into a consumer product and developed the light bulb, probably anticipated washing machines and stuff, but he sure didn't anticipate the electric guitar! That was far too weird of an idea. No one could have predicted that the descendants of slaves could have adopted this and come up with what would become the dominant form of popular music in the whole world. That's the kind of thing real societies do with real technology. One of the things Gibson has achieved is that he put some of that into his world. We've got information technology. How is it going to be used, not just by engineers who design products but by regular people who pick this stuff up and turn it to their own weird ends? Spam is another thing kind of like the electric guitar, though it's much darker, less palatable. Clearly the people who originated the technology never in their wildest dreams could have imagined that everyone on Earth who has e-mail would get 30 penis enlargement advertisements a day!

From my HA profile here

great stuff..

Re:That is a great article..

[GuyFawkes]

Thomas Edison didn't do dick because he was a Direct Current freak, Tesla was the man.

Such an apalling and fundamental error tells you everything you need to know about stephenson's ability as an SF writer.

Re:That is a great article..

[peacefinder]

Whoa, there, pardner!

Read what he said again. He didn't claim that Edison invented anything. He said: "Thomas Edison made electricity into a consumer product and developed the light bulb [...]"

If you will just tie your knee down a second to stop it jerking, you'll see that he actually agrees with you that "Edison didn't do dick"... at least not in the way engineers think of accomplishments.

However, what Stephenson said was accurate: Edison did have a huge influence on the widespread acceptance of electricity, and he did "develop" the light bulb as a consumer product. Edison wasn't half the inventor he claimed to be, but he was a brilliant marketer. (That's how he convinced everyone he was a brilliant inventor.) If you'll just take a deep breath, you'll see that he's simply giving Edison the credit he's due, and no more.

One of Stephenson's strengths as an author is that he understands the painful and symbiotic relationship between engineers and businessmen. This theme is central to Cryptonomicon, and important in Zodiac, Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and the Baroque Cycle.

Actually, now that you bring it up, I'd be delighted if he'd write a book on the rivalry between Tesla and Edison.... he's an author who could show both men as brilliant in their own distinct way.

Re:That is a great article..

[GuyFawkes]

Edison was a P T Barnum IMHO, he wasn't fit to sweep the workshop floor of a man like Tesla, and from all accounts both of them knew this too, hence the mutual emnity.

Re:That is a great article..

[peacefinder]

Edison was a P T Barnum IMHO, he wasn't fit to sweep the workshop floor of a man like Tesla [...]

Yes, that's probably true.

It is also true that P. T. Barnum was a smashing success as a promoter. You'll note that he died 113 years ago, and he still is the archetypal huckster. It's a truly dubious brand of success, but it still counts. :-)

I wonder if, in a hundred years, Bill Gates will be remembered as the popularizer of personal computers and the internet, even if the computers of that era descend from the free *nix's and MS-Windows has become a relic. I suspect so... just like we now use Tesla's AC, but think of Edison when we think of electricity.

Fame is fickle, and rarely fair.

Re:That is a great article..

[mentaldent]

Stephenson has written an article that touches on the rivalry between two engineers in the Victorian age. It is available at Mother Earth Mother Board at Wired.

Still, telegraphy, like many other forms of engineering, retained a certain barnyard, improvised quality until the Year of Our Lord 1858, when the terrifyingly high financial stakes and shockingly formidable technical challenges of the first transatlantic submarine cable brought certain long-simmering conflicts to a rolling boil, incarnated the old and new approaches in the persons of Dr. Wildman Whitehouse and Professor William Thomson, respectively, and brought the conflict between them into the highest possible relief in the form of an inquiry and a scandal that rocked the Victorian world. Thomson came out on top, with a new title and name - Lord Kelvin.

Yes but ...

[spellraiser]

But what about making an a plot out of the text? :P

Cheap shot, I know. I just happen to be nearly finished reading Snow Crash, my first Neal Stephenson novel. It has been critized for its lackluster plot, which I tend to agree with somewhat. But I nevertheless enjoyed the book very much for its style, wit, and imagination.

I hear Cryptonomicon is awesome though. I'm definitely going to read that one next.

Re:Yes but ...

[sllim]

Do yourself a favor and wait at least 6 months between finishing Snow Crash and reading Cryptonomicon.

Crypto is an amazing, incredible classic book that will blow your mind. You will feel smarter for having read it.
However it is as different from Snow Crash as one can get. So much so that if you are freshly done with Snow Crash you probably won't like Cryptonomicon.
This isn't a put down of either book.
But rather a compliment to the author. That he can write 2 distinctly different books that are both legendary among there fans yet are so different as to spoil a person.

Re:Yes but ...

[kootch]

Try the Big U

most fun book ever.

Re:Yes but ...

[bgackle]

He was much younger when he wrote snow crash, and yes, it does show. The only reason I got through Cryptonomicon is that I didn't notice it was by the same author...

Definately check out Cryptonomicon... it is one of the more entertaining books I've read in awhile. I can't wait for Quicksilver to become available in paperback.

SF needs to relearn brevity

[rhysweatherley]

I loved Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, but the Baroque Cycle ... got 2/3rds into Quicksilver and put it away. I liked the story in the abstract and where he was going with it, but it was *way* too long at getting to the point.

I'm seeing more and more of this in SF - three and four part stories, each part longer than a novel used to be. Huge world-building sure. But do we really need to know about the characters every bowel movement? Move it along people!

I blame the book shops in part for this: they make more money off trilogies than standalone novels. But I fear that it is destroying the art of good storytelling. Snow Crash (a single novel) was intense. Quicksilver was glacial.

Re:SF needs to relearn brevity

[AzureWraith]

Don't publishers and authors also benefit from more books? And why would a trilogy bulk up the individual books of the series?

Re:SF needs to relearn brevity

[RaymondRuptime]

Not that you're wrong--and not that I'm interested in the bowel movements of characters, either--but I don't think the situation is all that bad. Some people write long, some write short.

However, maybe hard numbers would be more helpful than subjective opinions. Anybody have a little time on their hands? You could get the list of the 10 or 20 best-selling SF novels for, say, 1963, 1973, 1983, 1993, and 2003, and tally up how many pages they each have. Do averages and deviation, and let's examine the data.

It would also be useful to compare the numbers with the best-sellers for other fiction genres, and see if there are similar trends. I mean, Stephenson is hardly the only author to push the far end of the bell curve on length: consider James A. Michener, who regularly cranked out fiction of over a thousand pages. (Or how about Bill Clinton's autobiography!)

Re:SF needs to relearn brevity

[peacefinder]

I think Snow Crash and Zodiac show that he can write concisely. But in the Baroque Cycle, he has definitely chosen not to.

I just finished The Confusion last week. Quicksilver was an awfully slow read, but it was also packed with information. It turns out that a great deal of the apparently-irrelevant exposition in Quicksilver is necessary context for the second volume. I expect even more of it will become relevant in the third volume.

He could surely have told a more brief or lively tale, but I don't think the end result would have been so fulfilling as this is for me. But then, I like long, fiendishly complex books.

Things in The Confusion that I especially enjoyed: (Possible spoilers)
* King Looie (as Jack would call him) is portrayed as a very cool fellow, supremely confident. It's an oddly humanizing portrait of such a potent historical figure.
* The explanation for why Minerva is so fast.
* Eliza's revenge... it's breathtaking in its subtlety.

Re:SF needs to relearn brevity

[Anonymous Coward]

I would almost agree with you but two thirds through your post I got bored and moved on....

Heres a Copy (albeit a bad one)

[matz62]

August 2004

Neal Stephenson grew up in Iowa and graduated from Boston University in 1981 majoring in geography with a minor in physics. His first published novel The Big U, a college thriller with SF elements, appeared in 1984, followed by Zodiac: The Eco-Thriller (1988). Snow Crash (1992), a cyberpunk classic, made him a star in the SF field. He wrote two thrillers in collaboration with his uncle, George Jewsbury, under the name "Stephen Bury": Interface (1994) and Cobweb (1996), and published solo novel The Diamond Age, winner of the Hugo and Locus Awards, in 1995. Cryptonomicon followed in 1999; also a Locus Award winner, this massive, Pynchonesque novel of history and cryptography proved tremendously popular with SF fans. Later that year he
Photo by Charles N. Brown

www.nealstephenson.com published In the Beginning...Was the Command Line, a non-fiction commentary on computers and culture. The past seven years were spent on the vast three-volume "Baroque Cycle", beginning with Arthur C. Clarke Award-winning Quicksilver (2003) and followed by The Confusion (2004) and The System of the World (2004). These books, set in the 17th century and featuring historical characters like Leibniz and Newton along with the ancestors of characters from Cryptonomicon, are Stephenson's latest attempt to push the boundaries of SF. Stephenson lives in the Pacific Northwest with his wife (married 1985) and their two children.

Excerpts from the interview:

"One of the defining characteristics of SF is that it's about worlds. You create a world first, and then you tell one or more stories in that world. That's why so frequently in SF, people will go back again and again to the same world and tell additional tales. That's kind of what's going on here. The world of the 'Baroque Cycle' happens to be 99% factual history, or as close as I can come to it, but what readers of this kind of fiction are looking for is the ability to become immersed in a different world. That's why there is a big crossover between historical fiction and SF. For me, the world-building process is part and parcel of writing. It's the only way I really know how to play this game. I guess that's why I feel so firmly that I'm in the SF camp, no matter where my work is set.

"I had been working on a future storyline connected to Cryptonomicon, but in attempting to write it I realized I needed to go back instead. So I did that, and it ended up taking seven years! The 'Baroque Cycle' project was never envisioned to be as big and long as it turned out to be. There's a line from Tolkien where he says, 'This tale grew in the telling.' I'm reluctant to quote that directly because it sounds like I'm copping an attitude, but that's what happened with this: it started out smaller and got bigger. I never slogged. I enjoyed every minute of writing it. Of course, I badly wanted to get to the end, but when I did, I was sad it was over. At various points along the line, I tried various superstitious tactics; at one point I said, 'I'm not gonna cut my hair until this thing is done.' I finally wound up on Christmas Eve 2003. A couple of weeks later I felt this overpowering need to have short hair again, so I just kept whacking until there was nothing left. And I plan to keep it that way."

*

"People keep asking me why I think of the 'Cycle' as science fiction. When I was a kid I used to read these huge anthologies of science fiction stories, and there would always be some oddball stories that were set during the Crusades, or with cave men, or what have you. They weren't overtly science fiction, but there didn't seem to be any doubt in anyone's mind that they belonged. I ma

Add one pre-order

[Karellen !-P]

I just finished the second installment and was left wanting more. It may be somewhat long winded but, for the history-loving geek in me, there is no better. This is the first time I ever pre-ordered a book before it's release. Now I'm gonna wait it out by playing Europa Universalis II :-P

Re:Add one pre-order

[jea6]

I bought "The System of the World" on eBay. So far (200 pages in) it's been well worth the premium (paid <$40). Of course, I liked Quicksilver and loved The Confusion so I'm fairly (unfairly?) biased. Don't worry: I'll be buying the hardcover in October to make sure Mr. Stephenson earns his royalties from me.

Re:Add one pre-order

[BigHungryJoe]

I didn't realize that publishers let these advance copies out. The book doesn't hit bookstores until mid-September. How are the eBay sellers getting this ahead of time? And is it the book in it's final form?

bhj

Re:Add one pre-order

[jea6]

Mine was a trade paperback with no internal artwork (the maps were handy in The Confusion).

Re:MOD DOWN TROLL -- PENIS ENLARGEMENTS?

[GrumpySimon]

No, the penis enlargement quotes are in the FA. As to what this says about Mr Stephenson...

Simon

Re:MOD DOWN TROLL -- PENIS ENLARGEMENTS?

[matz62]

Thats part of the articule..

A defence of apparent karma whoring (-1, offtopic)

[zaxios]

I am able only to spend a limited time on Slashdot each day. It is then under the great weight of expectation that every minute here impels contribution. Not contribution to karma. No. Contribution to discussion. Alas, when a new article appears and I find myself with nothing in my personal experience to contribute, I can, if nothing else, express my mastery of Google, or, more pertinently, provide some subtle sign of accord with the others whose sense of dismay I share at finding, in my few spare moments, a Slashdot article of little interest to me.

Snow Crash was a fun read

[autopr0n]

And I'd bet that people who liked it would like his later work, but I'm not sure the inverse is really true. It's pretty goofy, certanly dosn't have the realistic edge that Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle.

Re:Snow Crash was a fun read

[tekunokurato]

Like someone just below you said, Snow Crash is really considered to be his defining work. I once heard Microsoft's Linda Stone say on stage at a con something about how much Snow Crash had "affected us all" (I don't remember all the exact words), and half the audience (techies and many execs) went up in applause. While I think Cryptonomicon has a lot of good stuff, it's in pretty much no way a harbinger of things to come, and does not, like many defining works out there, guide technologists towards future creation like Snow Crash is capable of doing.

Just my two cents.

stick with it

[k2enemy]

i didn't enjoy "quicksilver" for the same reason, but i did finish it and went on to read "the confusion". the second volume is much, much more exciting than the first. in my opinion, the reward contained in "the confusion" is more than worth suffering through "quicksilver". hopefully "the system of the world" will continue on "the confusion's" success.

Re:stick with it

[Jerf]

I am a very patient reader.

But I don't think it is too much to ask that by page 500, something happen.

I'm not referring specifically to Neal here, though I will refer specifically to the Cryptonomicon. (Please don't try to "correct" me; up to that point in the Cryptonomicon, as far as I'm concerned all that had occured was a belabored explanation of several concepts I had learned about in more detail several years ago in school and that opinion of mine isn't about to change.)

But there is an opportunity cost here; 500 pages is several hours and if you're still building up, I have to ask myself whether my time is better spent on something that may pay off a little faster. Books are not a scarce resource, and while I don't demand wham-bang-boom by page 3, how much do you expect me to wade through?

My point here, I guess, is that I can't really find it in myself to care whether "The Confusion" is any good, if I have to wade through an entire bloated dull book to get there. I don't want to say everybody should feel that way (unfortunately I can think of no clear way in English to express this; it is the nature of a declatory sentence to sound like, well, a declaration of fact), but it is a viewpoint I think authors should consider. If you're going too slow for me, who considers a 600 page, densely printed book like "A Deepness in the Sky" to be "a bit on the short side", you really need to consider getting your ass into gear and letting the editor do a bit more cutting.

Re:stick with it

[bastard42]

If you can't handle Quicksilver, then never, ever read Asimov. Sure Aismov has some good short stories, but have you ever looked at the page count of of the Foundation series, let alone the Robot series. (Remember that the answer to the mystery is in the first chapters. The rest of what you read was a mystery novel trying to get you away from that fact.)
You can't tell me that every book in these series is worth it.

Give the guy a break. One bad (and it isn't that bad) book and you've given up on all his books?


PS I haven't read The Confustion yet either. I like The Diamond Age, but Snow Crash is cooler. I'll read the Confusion just for that.

Re:stick with it

[timeOday]

But I don't think it is too much to ask that by page 500, something happen.

I'm not referring specifically to Neal here, though I will refer specifically to the Cryptonomicon.

What!? You must have missed the chapter about eating a bowl of Captain Crunch.

Re:stick with it

[Ohreally_factor]

I am a very patient reader.

But there is an opportunity cost here; 500 pages is several hours and if you're still building up, I have to ask myself whether my time is better spent on something that may pay off a little faster. Books are not a scarce resource, and while I don't demand wham-bang-boom by page 3, how much do you expect me to wade through?

You can read 500 pages in three hours?

Anyway, for being such patient a patient reader, your tastes are much more geared to Hollywood movies. The formula there is much more predictable, and I'm sure you'll find that you are spending your time much more efficiently.

Personally, I struggled with Quicksilver at first, but by the end I was completely engaged. To my mind, it's just great writing. Still, I quite understand that it's not to everyone's taste. I will check out A Deepness in the Sky, though. Thanks for the recommendation.

Re:stick with it

[lidocaineus]

Ugh! Why do people constantly point to that section as a paragon of literary triumph? The main character likes a certain cereal, and he describes it like ANY OTHER PERSON WHO LIKES SOMETHING DOES. He just wrote it down. There were so many more interesting things he could've done with a love of cereal, yet he takes the most pedestrian route possible. If you don't know what I mean, read some Borges. Or Pinchon. Or even Virginia Woolf! Jesus, even DAVE EGGERS did it better!

Re:stick with it

[ktistec]

it's not to everyone's taste.

When I see these pans of the Baroque Cycle, I find myself dividing them into two categories: 1) The poster doesn't like the books because they're simply, genuinely not to his/her taste. 2) The poster doesn't like the books 'cause he/she Just Isn't Smart Enough.

I know 2) sounds awful, but am I the only one who's had that awful thought?

Re:stick with it

[Jerf]

I've never read the Baroque cycle and based on the reviews have no plan to do so.

But in the case of the Crypotonomicon, consider a (small) third category: "Too smart". I put that in quotes because it ought to be "too knowledgeable", really. I read it near the end of my last semester of my Master's degree in computer science. Thus, the numerous diversions into computer science weren't anywhere near as cool as they would have been for me in high school, they were tedious distractions from the plot, except that I didn't find much plot left if you remove the tedious distractions.

That said, mega-kudos to Neal for getting the computer science right; it of course isn't a formal introduction but it is heads and shoulders above most attempts to convey a real science in a novel form. But if the material is old hat, it isn't going to be much fun.

If you like the diversions in Cryptonomicon, that is as good a sign as any that you might genuinely enjoy a computer science education. Certainly a better sign then the more common "I like to play computer games", which I saw far too much of (no joke).

Re:stick with it

[Jerf]

You can read 500 pages in three hours?

More like 5, unless they are really sparse. A lot of hardcovers are getting that way; soon large print editions will be redundant.

Anyway, for being such patient a patient reader, your tastes are much more geared to Hollywood movies.

Oh fuck off. 4 or 5 hours is plenty of time to give a guy (or girl) to do something. If you can't make something happen by then you're a hack. Or you're editor is a hack.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not asking for the story to be resolved; hell, I'll follow you through a decology if it's worth it. I'm asking that something happen, something that if somebody asked what the book was about I could tell them. I got 500 pages into the Cryponomicon and by that standard, nothing had happened. Literally all I remember today is that the main character had moved to the Phillipines. 500 pages into "A Deepness In the Sky", the story was nowhere near resolved, but we've found Pham Nuwen, travelled to the site of the main story, watched the aliens develop parity with ~20th century technology, had a major battle which set up the main conflict between the humans, discovered why the humans on one side are despicable (by our standards), and that's not even a complete list. Stuff happens, even with the rare computer science diversion.

Re:stick with it

[Jerf]

I love the Foundation series.

On that topic, I also love the Dune series, and my favorites are the last two books, which really ought to be considered one book (much like the last two Ender books by Card though their names escape me; I lost the third a long time ago and never actually owned the fourth, got it from the library). Had it been one book I still would have loved it.

See my cousin post to this about A Deepness in the Sky. Same story with the Foundation series; stuff has happened, actually well before page 500 because most of the stories are shorter than that.

You should revise your understanding of my post to take that into account; I think you jumped to the same wrong conclusion the other guy did.

Re:stick with it

[peacefinder]

I'm surprised you see it that way. The storylines that follow Sgt. Shaftoe and Lt. Goto seemed to me to have a good bit of motion in them from the start. The Waterhouse storylines were slower, and the modern Waterhouse story was definitely the slowest.

I'm not sure that it's really correct to think of Randy Waterhouse as the main character. It's more of an ensemble of several characters who are followed in distinct stories which are woven together. Or, more accurately, one story which has been unraveled into numerous threads, each of which follows a character. Randy's storyline is the one that ties them all together, ultimately, so I guess in that sense he's the main. Anyway.

I developed a fondness for this sort of threaded story (that Stephenson has been writing lately) back when I was blown away by Arthur C. Clarke's "The Fountains of Paradise." It features two parallel stories separated by a thousand years and a few kilometers, which never explicitly converge.

Vernor Vinge did something structurally similar in "A Fire Upon the Deep", where he told stories concurrent in time, but separated by thousands of light-years and which are eventually convergent.

What Stephenson has done (in Cryptonomicon and in Baroque) is fragment the story into three or more threads, instead of just two. Some threads converge, others die off. Some threads are expository and slow, while others are action-based and fast. The fast-paced storylines are meant to keep the reader going through the slow-paced exposition bits, I imagine. For me, it works.

It's really a matter of taste. I can see why a person wouldn't like the structure, and goodness knows the Randy Waterhouse storyline wouldn't be much fun on its own. Thankfully, its not on its own. :-)

Re:stick with it

[Ohreally_factor]

Oh fuck off.

=)

Even if you liked Snow Crash...

[lpontiac]

I think people feel a need to be either "a Stephenson fan" or "not a Stephenson fan," and those in the former group (try to) read his entire catalogue.

Quicksilver and Confusion are very, very different books to Snow Crash and The Big U. Rather than assuming that if you liked Snow Crash, you should like this, and if not there's something wrong with it, some people would be better off realising that regardless of authorship Quicksilver simply isn't to their taste, and they should just not pay it any attention.

Re:Even if you liked Snow Crash...

[drinkypoo]

Every stephenson book is pretty different from snow crash, and the big U. Snow crash is probably most like Zodiac, even though the settings of the two books are entirely different. The Diamond Age is of course pretty highly related to Snow Crash (even apparently containing at least one character in common) but written in a very different style. Naturally the books more similar to one another are the members of the baroque cycle, and cryptonomicon, which I seem to recall isn't strictly part of the cycle, but might as well be.

Re:Even if you liked Snow Crash...

[Concerned Onlooker]

Good point. I loved reading "In the beginning was the command line" but right now I'm slogging through Cryptonomicon. The former was fun, the latter is a soulless stroll through the grimness that is history. Come to think of it, the modern parts are the same way. I only keep reading because of the occasional mathematical and cryptographic discussions.

Re:A defence of apparent karma whoring (-1, offtop

[Bullet-Dodger]

Wow, I had to read that like 5 times before I understood it; Are you sure you haven't read Quicksilver?

greatest living writer?

[warrped]

Neal Stephenson is a lot of fun to read, but greatest living writer? I think even Neal (no, not Cowboy) would take issue with that statement.

Re:greatest living writer?

[JBdH]

Indeed, Stanislav Lem is still alive.

Re:greatest living writer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I've followed Neal for many years. I DO think he is the greatest living writer, but he simply has not yet demonstrated it to those who need an explicit lesson.

Neal, keeping reading and writing and chuckling to yourself.

Advance Reader Copies

[Anonymous Coward]

Publishers hand out dozens of Advance Reader Copies or ARCs to industry insiders, other authors who might be willing to write a blurb, booksellers who have to decide if a book is worth stocking and in what numbers, and finally, perhaps most importantly, to book reviewers. Reviewers need to publish a review on or near the date of release so publishers will give them an advance copy.

So, any one of the aforementioned parties can put an ARC on ebay for a tidy profit.

MOD PARENT DOWN for SPOILER

[Scrameustache]

Geez dude, how' bout not blowing a damn spoiler on people like that huh?

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN for SPOILER

[Anonymous Coward]

its only a spoiler if you've already read the books!

mod parent down for asshattery.

Re:A defence of apparent karma whoring (-1, offtop

[Anonymous Coward]

Quicksilver wasn't a joke.

The meaning of "baroque"

[Scrameustache]

I loved Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, but the Baroque Cycle ... got 2/3rds into Quicksilver and put it away. I liked the story in the abstract and where he was going with it, but it was *way* too long at getting to the point.

Its not like he didn't warn you.
If the fact that it was a 900+ page "volume one of three" was clue one.
Naming the trilogy "baroque" was clue 2.

Main Entry: 1baroque
Pronunciation: b&-'rOk, ba-, -'räk, -'rok
Function: adjective
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: French, from Middle French barroque irregularly shaped (of a pearl), from Portuguese barroco irregularly shaped pearl
1 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of a style of artistic expression prevalent especially in the 17th century that is marked generally by use of complex forms, bold ornamentation, and the juxtaposition of contrasting elements often conveying a sense of drama, movement, and tension
2 : characterized by grotesqueness, extravagance, complexity, or flamboyance

It was really long.
Instead of complaining that it is very long, you should not buy very long books. I complain that it was a bit drawn out too, but I finished it, and the second one, and I'm waiting for the third one. I feel I'm getting my mony's worth, personally.
: )

Re:The meaning of "baroque"

[ePhil_One]

Naming the trilogy "baroque" was clue 2.

ROTFLMAO

I slugged my way through the last third of Quicksilver too. The Confusion was definately better, and I'm glad I didn't give up. Definately worth the read. While I'm sure it could be written in a lighter, faster style, it wouldn't really match the the subject, and well, it wouldn't really be Neal Stephenson.

Re:The meaning of "baroque"

[lidocaineus]

Just because a book has a huge amount of pages doesn't mean it has to be "long". Long, in this context, means arduous and painful. There are plenty of long volumes (page count wise) that don't feel long (arduous and painful).

In other words, what the grandparent is saying is that the book was written like crap by an author who is in love with his supposed wittiness (which doesn't show itself as much as he thinks it does). I'd have to agree.

Re:The meaning of "baroque"

[Silburn_Luke]

Just because a book has a huge amount of pages doesn't mean it has to be "long". Long, in this context, means arduous and painful. There are plenty of long volumes (page count wise) that don't feel long (arduous and painful).

I agree on the basic point and yet, having just finished reading Quicksilver on holiday last week, I can report that, for me, it wasn't long at all.

Clearly, what you think is crappy overwriting and ego indulgence I think is immersive world-building and well-crafted, detailed exposition. Tastes vary. Who would have guessed it?

Regards Luke

quicksilver

[the evaluator]

i have to admit, like a few people have expressed already, i had a really hard time getting through quicksilver. i too found it long winded and overly detailed, if gibson can wax poetic about some fetish techno object, it almost seemed like stephenson tried to accomplish the same with historical detail. but- i picked up "the confusion" (volume two of the baroque cycle), and i couldnt put it down, dunno why as i never even really finished quicksilver. i recommend anyone who gave up on the trilogy give this one a try- even those who don't find the series as light as snowcrash can't deny theres some classic stephenson wackiness with the story arc, and it seems like it moves along much better than its predecessor, which established the characters, rather than let them out to play.

Re:A defence of apparent karma whoring (-1, offtop

[Anonymous Coward]

It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

In the Beginning...

[FiloEleven]

...was the Command Line has got to be one of the best informative essays I have read. Nominally he's talking about operating systems, but he manages to throw in Batmobiles, Disney World, quake-proofing San Fran, and the venerable Hole Hawg drill. Quite entertaining even if you've already got the knowledge.

See? Now I'm reading it again instead of sleeping.

Re:In the Beginning...

[machineghost]

*minor spoiler*

In The Beginning Was The Command Line was, IMHO, awesome. Probably my favorite part is when Stephenson does the operating systems as cars analogy, and get's to Linux. He says something like "and then down the street from the dealerships are the Linux guys with a giant sign that says FREE TANKs. But everyone sees it and goes 'I don't know how to drive a tank' so they just pass on by." To me that summed up incredibly vividly how the mainstream looks at open source software.

Re:In the Beginning...

[hcdejong]

ITBWTCL very nearly made me not want to read anything by Stephenson ever again. I enjoyed the books I'd read up to then, but IMO his whole line of reasoning in ITB was Just Plain Wrong. How someone who can write Cryptonomicon can lose the plot so completely is beyond me. It reads like he swapped sanity for zealotry in anger over his Powerbook crashing.

Re:Baroque Cycle SPOILERISH

[Scrameustache]

Eliza was a totally one dimensional PerfectFemale.

I disagree.

She was also totally portrayed like a modern American Woman

She is neither fat nor ignorant of world matters.

very far from the reality at the time.

He repeatedly describes the reality of women in those times. Eliza is an extraordinary person who manages to navigate this society to her advantage despite it all.
I am normally the first to compain about one-dimentional "girl power" strong women stereotyped characters. She isn't one.

And one dimensional?
She has at least 2 dimensions: Buisness woman and slavery abolitionist.
Oh, and double agent spy... and socialite...etc.

Eighteenth century my arse!

Most of it was in the 17th century, actually.

Another opinion piece

[Calroth]

I've always thought of The Baroque Cycle as Stephenson's masterpiece. Much like other masterpieces, it's long, inscrutable, and not meant to be read by mere mortals (insofar as a mass-market novel can be). It's long-winded, but if you can slow down and relax enough to read it, it's rewarding. However, readers of Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon have reflexes of lightning (as do Slashdotters), which is why they don't tend to like it.

As some sort of thought experiment, I gave Quicksilver to one of my friends, with the intention of giving her Cryptonomicon later (since most people have read them the other way around). She got bored and gave up on it.

I found Quicksilver to be long and tedious, but The Confusion lifted things; Stephenson even wrote a half-decent ending! So here's hoping that The System of the World is as good or better.

He's Evolved a Good Deal...

[Blic]

I find it quite common that people that really liked Snow Crash dislike his current work, especially the Baroque Cycle.

Conversely, from someone who doesn't read much Sci-Fi, I found Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle much more interesting than Snow Crash which seems such a bit of Cyberpunk fluff.

While he still has technology and its role in history and human lives as a pervading theme, he's pretty much stopped writing Sci-Fi in the narrowest definition.

Though it's a tough transition - Sci-Fi fans dislike his current work, and yet he still has to shed that pulpy Sci-Fi stigma that would keep his books from reaching a larger audience - i.e. in most bookstores he's still in the Sci-Fi section...

Stephenson and Pynchon

[stevemm81]

I keep thinking there's an amazing parallel between Neal Stephenson and Thomas Pynchon. Both wrote a couple of fairly easy to read, shorter humorous novels (OK, Stephenson's are much easier to read than Pynchon's, but you get the point...)Then, they both wrote long but excellent novels involving math, sex, World War II and a million other things; obviously, Cryptonomicon was influenced by Gravity's Rainbow.

But then, they both started writing long, excessively cute historical/science fiction about the Enlightenment. Pynchon had Mason&Dixon, which, for those who haven't read it, featured Vladimir&Estragon versions of the surveyors, in addition to every historical figure from that era, some anachronisms and other weirdness (a talking dog, a Feng Shui master...) a "Reverend Cherrycoke" and some other not-so-funny jokes like that.

Similarly, Quicksilver, which I could not even begin to penetrate, makes the mistake of being too cute, yet simultaneously dry, with all the Harvard/MIT references and every possible plot from the era (Leibniz/Newton, pirates, Ben Franklin, puritanism, etc.) I think I might have been able to finish it if it weren't for all those references to the "Massachusetts Institute of Technickal Arts."

Re:Stephenson and Pynchon

[DrSbaitso]

I think I might have been able to finish it if it weren't for all those references to the "Massachusetts Institute of Technickal Arts."

Those only last about 100 pages. Somehow, if that's all you could stomach, I don't think you could finish it even if he'd called the school CalTech.

Re:For the slashdotted

[Moofie]

DUDE! Look into some paragraph breaks! Come on!

Is it Jazz, or is it Memorex?

[bild]

There's a particular aesthetic impression you get from jazz that you can identify and recognize right away. It's the same with SF -- once you get used to it, you just know.
- Neal Stephenson, 2004

I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it.
- Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, 1964

I guess I'm not entirely satisfied with the 'know it if you see it' argument ... certainly, the aesthetic he carries from earlier work is present in Quicksilver, but that could simply be his writing style, showing through.

If Quicksilver can be described as SciFi, it's definitely an outlier in the category. It is obviously fiction, of a historical bent, and it has a lot of science in it, but one could imagine writing imaginary conversations between Newton and Liebnitz, for example, without it being considered Science Fiction.

For inspiration I think of Walter Murphey's 1976 disco classic 'A Fifth of Beethoven'. This reworking of an historical classic is disco for recognizable reasons: the beat, the instrumentation, the structural changes, its length, etc. Similarly, Quicksilver can be seen as a SciFi riff on a historical material for recognizable reasons. Later in the article, he articulates one of those reasons:

How is it going to be used, not just by engineers who design products but by regular people who pick this stuff up and turn it to their own weird ends?

So, science fiction could perhaps be described as speculative writing in which science/technology plays a central role, and in which characters in the story turn the science to their own ends.

dear GPL'd lord! Re: Re:greatest living writer?

[Finkbug]

"Neal Stephenson is a lot of fun to read, but greatest living writer? I think even Neal (no, not Cowboy) would take issue with that statement." I'd rank him the sixth or tenth best cyberpunk writer. Never had understood the crazed hooplah. If you want to go with steampunk none of the cyberpunks are in contention: Tim Powers is the master with Anubis Gates the devesatiting The Stress of Her Regard. Strictly within SF Gene Wolfe, Thomas Disch, David Avramson, Richard McKenna, Benford, Malzberg, Silverberg, Sturgeon and others have written circles around him. Not only on "lit" values but in "hard" SF too. Half those listed still live; I could replace those dead easily enough. (I enjoy his work! don't get me wrong. I've bought all the books and will buy more.) Stephenson is a better fiction writer than, say, Asimov. Faint praise in my book. Leave the SF ghetto (my den) and the Slashdot crowd looks ever more ridiculous. So much for computer science as the new liberal arts degree, eh?

Whats different?

[torpor]

Different period, different characters, different plot, different subject.

Same style.

I'm reading "Pattern Recognition" now, and I don't frankly see much difference between "Neuromancers" Case, and PR's Cayce.

Cyberpunk authors get stuck in ruts. Paint a box different colors, its still a box ...

Re:Whats different?

[Bullet-Dodger]

Well, Stephenson wrote 1, maybe 2 Cyberpunk books (I think Diamond Age is debatable). I wouldn't exactly call him a "Cyberpunk author".

Free Society

[dudeBaron]

When I stop having to monitor my children's email accounts for fear of having lewd images greeting them or ads for organ enlargements, etc. will email and the web really be a worthwhile thing.

Readers need to relearn patience!

[kraut]

I loved Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, and Quicksilver - my only complaint is that I can't read novels that size on the train because they're too heavy to comfortably carry around ;)

Yes, Snow Crash is faster paced - but it's a much simpler story, with fewer characters and developments. I enjoy that, but I also enjoy it when an author takes more space to explore the story. And don't forget, it covers an entire lifetime!

Re:Fiction Vs Non

[Bullet-Dodger]

Where the hell did he say his work is 100% fiction? It's called Historical Fiction for a reason, dude. (And if you think his work is 100% accurate, you're off your nut)

Re:A defence of apparent karma whoring (-1, offtop

[Anonymous Coward]

It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Re-read your metaphor. You are a dumbass. Anyway, the GP was joking.

Bah. Stick to "Finux" hackers, Neal

[seafoodforklift]

Cryptonomicon was fantastic, but I couldn't get halfway through Quicksilver. The characters are inconsistent and incoherent, particularly the protagonist - who only remembers his religious views when it's convenient for the plot, but otherwise is just a random dude meeting famous peoplem having deep conversations with them and never expresses his own opinions. The view of european history presented is also a caricature, extremely americanised and at times very silly. In addition, alhtough interesting, Stephenson's descriptions present London from the viewpoint of a modern tourist who wants to understand where it all came from. It feels like reading the Lonely Planet guide. And he clearly does not understand Cambridge. Although he talks a lot about Trinity. I doubt he's ever even visited it. 99% crap. Big disappointment.

Re:Baroque Cycle SPOILERISH

[pixieluv]

I am a modern American woman and I am not fat and I am not ignorant. Sterotyping is a form of ignorance, especially when there is no basis or merit for it.

The Confusion was great

[bobaferret]

I enjoyed parts of Quicksilver, but a lot of it was slow, still a very good book. Ah, but "the Confusion," this was the first book that I have ever read that trully had me rivited to my seat. It trully has parts in it that make me think it is one of the best books I've ever read. The scene where they are feeling across the Mediterranean is both an amazing chase as well as grotesquely beautiful prose at times.

damn

[Anonymous Coward]

I should have previewed!

I am a very patient reader.

But there is an opportunity cost here; 500 pages is several hours and if you're still building up, I have to ask myself whether my time is better spent on something that may pay off a little faster. Books are not a scarce resource, and while I don't demand wham-bang-boom by page 3, how much do you expect me to wade through?

You can read 500 pages in three hours?

Anyway, for being such patient a patient reader, your tastes are much more geared to Hollywood movies. The formula there is much more predictable, and I'm sure you'll find that you are spending your time much more efficiently.

Personally, I struggled with Quicksilver at first, but by the end I was completely engaged. To my mind, it's just great writing. Still, I quite understand that it's not to everyone's taste. I will check out A Deepness in the Sky, though. Thanks for the recommendation.

Re:Baroque Cycle, Shakespeare and Apostol

[Anonymous Coward]

Neal just wants to break out of the SF ghetto with the Baroque Cycle.

If you can change enough ganglia to wrap the remains of your head around the Enlightenment, then the Baroque Cycle is a thoroughly enjoying read. But if you can do that then you can do the same thing with even more worthwhile books such as the complete works of Bill Shakespeare or of Tom Apostol.

Care To Expand A Bit On Your Criticisms?

[Silburn_Luke]

As someone who's just finished reading Quicksilver (and thoroughly enjoyed it BTW) I'm intrigued by some of your criticisms. I know a fair bit about the Smoke (and been living here for a while) and I thought he got the London bits down very well, especially for a non-native and a foreigner, but I don't know that much about Cambridge (neither Cantab. or Mass.) - could you give a bit more detail on how he got Cambridge/Trinity wrong IYO?

Also which bits of the history were especially Americanised or silly? I'm by no means well read in the period, so I'd like a better idea of where you think he went off the rails there.

Regards
Luke

Re:Care To Expand A Bit On Your Criticisms?

[seafoodforklift]

Hi Luke.

Well, related to my previous comments the following are some parts of the book that I found really frustrating and made me put it down:

• Leibniz, Newton and other Royal Society characters are presented as the 17 century equivalent of hackers. They stay up all night having the time's equivalent of LAN parties, erm, dissecting dogs. The way he describes them, they feel more like MIT sophomores cramming to finish a mid-term CS project than 17th century philosophers. There's just a historic context that makes this parallel a bit silly. I mean, Oxford and Cambridge were monasteries not long before that; a lot of these people probably spent half their day in church and took their religion and Latin pretty seriously. This hardly features in their debates and work in the book. It's all cool for the sake of an exciting story, but, 99% accurate?
• The german witch-pagan-forest stuff+drugs+falling down a mine part+ending up covered in phosphorus and bumping into friends underground was, well, just plain crazy, to say the least. Similarily, the siege of Vienna was just too mental. It's this Eurodisney and Hollywood approach to european history that annoyed me - take a swashbuckler, add a Turk with a scimitar and a hot chick, stir vigorously, serve. I mean, it's cool in a Tom Clancy novel or Indiana Jones, but I think Stephenson takes himself too seriously.
• Woodhouse's dad dies in a totally random way (blown up or something, if I recall correctly), but his death does not really seem to emotionally register with his son or affect his views or politics (which he never stands up for, at any point halfway through the book, despite frequent proclamations that he was a puritan especially in the Boston part of the story etc.), although, to his credit, I do recall some tears.
• Isn't the king of England a bit too accessible for 99% real?
• It is impossible to tell that Eliza's character is a woman. She talks, walks, behaves and has sex like a man, and you can tell it's because the book is written by a man who can't write women, let alone 17th century women. That was the case with some of the female characters in Cryptonomicon too
• In my view, what's cool about Tolkien is that he never goes into tiny, minute detail in, say, the Silmarillion (an equally complex in number of characters and ambition book). He does not describe every single rock and street on Middle Earth. He often just drops peoples' and places' names as if it's obvious what he means. That, in a sense, makes Middle Earth more real, because your imagination fills in the gaps. On the other hand, Stephenson describes every other building down the Strand, who built it, why there was smoke coming up the chimney, how much gold there was in each basement on Cheapside, what the decoration was like in the local pub etc. It gets frustrating after a while, and just isn't very sophisticated.

Anyway. Perhaps I'm being too anal, but I found my patience wearing thin pretty quickly. it's a big book and demands a lot of attention and time. In short, I think that Stephenson tries to tackle more than he can handle, and gets sidetracked. I think he is aiming too high, trying to write a momentous work, but fails because he gets bogged down too much on pointless details and misses the spirit of the time. I was just dissapointed very early, and gave up.

Religion and Moderation

[thegameiam]

>>Since I consider all religions quite offensive, and fervent believers of any faith to be slime equal to the Taliban,

Clearly the comments of a rational, moderate mind.
It might be worth drawing a distinction between Mother Teresa and Osama bin Laden, don't you think?

Re:Religion and Moderation

[plover]

[ don't feed the trolls, John, resist the urge ... ]

[ can't help myself! ]

The reason I consider fanatics slime is for committing the crime of fanaticism itself. I'm not differentiating between "good slime" and "evil slime" here -- lies are lies regardless of the noble intentions of their source. And like anything else, lies can be used for good or evil purposes.

And since you bring it up, they were not as different as the blindly faithful might wish them to be:

• They both rabidly believed/believe in their respective views of god and allah.
• They both would stand in front of crowds of incredibly impoverished people, telling them stories that would make them feel empowered, and promising them greatness in afterlife. It's important to note that this promise is one which neither Theresa nor bin Laden actually had/has to personally deliver.
• They both recognized the power their position gave them, and both used it unstintingly to further their ends.

The big difference, of course, is that bin Laden believes that the end justifies the means no matter how violent, whereas Mother Theresa respected life in every case that I'm aware of. Since that's pretty much the current Western standard definition of evil vs. good, it's quite easy for us to pass judgement. Yes, of course I'd rather have a world of Mother Theresas than bin Ladens, but religiously speaking she was spouting just as much nonsense as bin Laden and the mullahs. Her nonsense was simply of a flavor more socially palatable to us.

Re:Religion and Moderation

[thegameiam]

I'd have to say that I'm not a troll - I vehemently disagree with the outlook you're espousing, and thought that the [[extreme views]] should not pass by un-commented-upon.

In your hatred of religion of all stripes, you're as guilty of fanaticism as any of those you criticize.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world of Mother Teresas than a world of rabid anti-religionists or a world of bin Ladens, even though I thoroughly disagree with her outlook and am most certainly not a Christian.

I'd recommend a thorough exploration of the good and bad of all viewpoints, and while religion has certainly produced some seriously evil and screwed up people, it has also done tremendous good for the world. On the other hand, the prominent secular ideologies of the prior century didn't turn out so well (Facism, Communism, National Socialism). The Gripping hand, however, is that you can't judge a cause by the quality of the people following it (Heinlein).

In summary, you stated that you view adherents of any religion to be the equivalent of the taliban, and seem to think that that viewpoint is defensible. It would be laughable, except you seem to be a decent writer, which makes it instead a pity.

Re:Religion and Moderation

[plover]

Those are all good points, and I have to agree with you for the most part; at least except the part where you claim the churches have done tremendous "good." Instead all I see is the evil they bring -- zealots murdering in the names of their various gods; coercion of the poor; self-induced perversions brought on by misinterpretations of their own words that result in the abuse of children; and the current rabid following of the Machiavellian Mayberrys occupying the White House, simply because they perform the rituals the religious right wants to see.

The only "good" I see churches providing is that they offer comfort to the most unfortunate people -- homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc. The price they charge is to get these indigents to pledge allegiance to their bunk, and to spread it further. That's a lot of strings attached to that "good."

But the worst part of all is that I know some otherwise very bright kids who are taught by their parents to "just ignore that evolution stuff in school, because you know the Real Truth." They make it sound like Jesus made the dinosaur bones to confuse the damned. These are otherwise nice, normal people who just think they're doing their kid a favor by making them rationalize away reason and scientific thought. It really, really saddens me to see the corruption passed from parent to child.

Anyway, that's how I feel about religion (obviously.) So when I read it in Stephenson's books, I get no "hope" from seeing someone join whichever religion-of-the-plotline, because it only strikes a very dissonant chord inside me.

Thus, the Taliban analogy. Sorry if it made you uncomfortable. I promise I'll shut up now.

A Conversation with Eliza

[Embedded Geek]

I can see it now:

Eliza was a totally one dimensional PerfectFemale.
But why do you think Eliza is a totally one dimensional female?
Because she's too perfect
Does that make you feel threatened?
Well, no. Well, maybe. Somewhat.
Interesting. Do you think this has anything to do with your parents?

Of course, the notion of Eliza as a long winded character all depends on what you ask her in the first place.

Re:A Conversation with Eliza

[payslee]

Thank you for making me laugh out loud!

I had wondered if this "perfect" woman was named after that perfect listener, but you captured the spirit of it, well, perfectly.

Sadly, no mod points today.

Re:A Conversation with Eliza

[Embedded Geek]

Glad you liked it. It gave me an excuse to go out and find an online version of Eliza. I was sure someone must've done it and I was glad to discover I was right. I'll have to keep it on hand, maybe send it around to old timers like myself.

P.S. Love your .sig.

Stephenson's Best

[Sw0rdfiche]

I been reading this guy for a long time and enjoying most of his work. For the sheer depth of imagination, "The Diamnond Age" is still the best extrapolation of what nanotech might grow up to be. The concept of the "matter compiler" in itself is remarkable. Writing as Stephen Bury, "The Cobweb" is great political fiction about Washington, Iraq and the general bravery of the common American citizen. Everyone knows "Snow Crash." Next to Gibson's "Neuromancer," it is the classic cyberpunk novel. "Cryptonomicon" fascinated me because in addition to being a polemic about encryption technology, when it was published it intentionally broke the encryption tech laws it was challenging because it had an algorithim in the book that could be considered a "munition" if exported abroad. The Baroque Cycle, I must admit, scares me. I have been in discussion for months with a fellow Stephenson fan who has plowed through both volumes. He reports the kind of frustration and fascination echoed in this discussion thread. Seems like Neal has fallen in love with his own voice and could use a good editor. I may change my mind when I actually read them, but there were signs of this tendency in "Cryptonomicron," ie the infamous Penthouse Forum letter that went on for days. Let's here it for fishnet stockings and antique furniture.

Re:Stephenson's Best

[bob_herrick]

I read NS in order: 1. Snow Crash, 2. Diamond Age, 3. Zodiac, 4.Big U, 5. Interface, 6. Command Line, 7. Cyrptonomicon, 8. Quicksiler, and 8. Confusion. From this order it should bbe obvious that I am an SF fan who likes to read the entire work of an author. I've read Snow Crash several times and Cryptonomican at least three times. Cryptonomicon matched an interest in cryptography so I could relate fact and fiction in the historical pieces. My reading of the Baroque Cycle coincided with reading bios of Newton and Franklin, ditto. That's all for context. I recognize that not everyone will have the taste for the Baroque Cycle, but as I actually enjoyed the first book, and like some others, could barely put down part II (I preordered it and part III from Amazon at the same time), I have to say that so far the series has been well worth the read. It is unusual for me to have interest in historically oriented fiction, so to some extent NS should be credited with opening access to a literature that otherwise I would have overlooked. My copy of The System of the World should show up any day now. I highly anticipate its arrival, I say to any /. reader that if it is half the book (not in pages, but content) Confusion is, set aside a couple of days for it. I know I will.

The Diamond Age

[IncohereD]

That said, mega-kudos to Neal for getting the computer science right; it of course isn't a formal introduction but it is heads and shoulders above most attempts to convey a real science in a novel form. But if the material is old hat, it isn't going to be much fun.

Have you by chance read The Diamond Age? He deals with the introduction to computer science in a much subtler and more interesting way, that I didn't even really fully appreciate in high school. Reading it again somewhere around year 4 of engineering was much more interesting.

Re:The Diamond Age

[Jerf]

No. Based on what I've heard, I do hope to get to that and Snow Crash sometime. I also liked "In the Beginning was the Command Line".

(It's not like I hate the guy personally :-) I just don't like where he is going. I feel the same about Michael Crichton; early stuff is cool, but later works come off too much like movie novelizations. Actually they aren't too bad, I'd just rather see the movie itself. :-) Hmmm... nope, nothing yet... I'm sure it is just a matter of time.)

Stephenson's sex scenes

[David Gould]

A lot of Stephenson's sex scenes aren't really bad. They're just... weird. For one thing, they're rarely anything that you'd call "erotic" -- if anything, he seems to try his best to avoid making it erotic. And yet, he'll succeed at making it very clear how intensely erotic it is for the characters; there's plenty of excitement for them, just none for you. He also has a way of emphasizing some of the less pornogenic but more realistic aspects of sex, like premature ejaculation, prostate issues, and the post-coital need to pee ("...to flush the remaining semen out of your urethra, lest it dry in there...").

But you know the single most disconcerting thing he's ever done? I've been needing to get this off my chest since the first time I read Cryptonomicon, (circa 1999) and whenever I think about it, I still get all twitchy. It's the Randy/Amy scene near the end: Randy was sleeping in the passenger seat of the SUV, when (to make a short story even shorter) Amy climbed in, had her way with him, and "exited stage left."

Waitasec... 'Left'? I thought he was in the passeng-- AAAAARRGHHHH!!!! IT'S AN SUV BUILT FOR A COUNTRY WHERE THEY DRIVE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD! THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ON THE RIGHT AND THE PASSENGER SEAT IS ON THE LEFT! MY ENTIRE MENTAL IMAGE OF THE SCENE HAS BEEN FLIPPED BACKWARDS ALL ALONG!

Before you tell me to lay off the coffee (just had my second double latte for the day, thanks), think about it for a minute: The way the story is written (not just that scene, but the whole narrative flow), it had me pretty deeply "in the zone", with a very vivid mental screenplay following along. Then comes the sex scene, making it even more vivid. Then at the end of the scene, when I'm visualizing the inside of the vehicle (something that one can visualize very clearly because it's such a small and familiar environment), I suddenly realize that I've had everything the wrong way around. The door that she came through is on his left; the driver's console is on his right; he's been sleeping with his body slumped the other way; the kink in his back, the crick in his neck, and the cold spot on his temple from leaning against the window are on the opposite sides, etc., etc.

Believe me, it was a physically painful sensation, like my brain was trying to turn sideways in my skull. I had to go back and try to mentally re-choreograph the scene, but I just couldn't make it feel right.

I'm almost certain Stephenson did this deliberately -- he seems to love playing that sort of mind-games on his readers and burying little Easter eggs all over the place. I wonder what percentage of readers noticed it. (Anyone?)

Re:Stephenson's sex scenes

[FiloEleven]

Totally didn't catch that. My take on it was that in stage terms, "exit stage left" means go off the RIGHT side of the stage from the audience's point of view. My "vantage point" during this section of narrative was basically above the center console, almost between the two seats, so for me "exit stage left" fit perfectly well =) Incidentally, as I don't have the book with me, what country was this in, and have you verified that the seating is the opposite of the USA?

Re:Stephenson's sex scenes

[David Gould]

My "vantage point" during this section of narrative was basically above the center console

You mean, you weren't reading in "first-person shooter" mode, from Randy's point of view? I'm pretty sure the reader is supposed to be identifying with Randy there (or is it just us male geeks?).

Let me see -- so you were looking at them from the side, so you saw them in profile, with Randy on the right and Amy on the left? Oh, I think I get it -- you were also a bit forward, looking back at them, so you could see past her to the door? Okay, the door would be on the left edge of the screen from that point of view in a normal (i.e., American) vehicle. I can see how that could work.

Not sure I buy it, though. Like I said, I'm pretty sure the scene was supposed to be seen from Randy's point of view. (I know I was in first-person mode, seeing it through his eyes, which is also why it was so disorienting to have the whole scene suddenly twisted around.) And if I were filming it, I think I'd put a camera on the driver's side back seat, looking diagonally forward over Randy's shoulder, so it'd see part of his face and see Amy almost head-on. That way, "stage left" equals "Randy's left" equals "vehicle left". And if that's where the passenger-side door is, that makes is a non-USian vehicle.

In short, I still think it was one of Stephenson's deliberate head-games. There's no denying he likes messing with his readers that way. Not that I'm complaining -- it's actually one of the things I love most about his writing. Ok, now I need an official answer from him. If Slashdot ever does an interview with him, I'll repost this.

Incidentally, as I don't have the book with me, what country was this in, and have you verified that the seating is the opposite of the USA?

They were in the Philippines at this point (having snuck back there to look for the big gold cache). I don't know how people drive in the Philippines, but this part was set in a back-country area, and the origin of the vehicle was not known -- I remember getting a vague impression that it might have been brought in directly from somewhere else anyway, not bought in that country.

Re:Stephenson's sex scenes

[Anonymous Coward]

Left, right, I've always had problems with that one.
How about the whole sex-change operation that has to happen to be in first-person receiver mode.

3rd stage

[Scrameustache]

The characters are inconsistent and incoherent

Yeah, that guy with syphilis who's drugged without his knowledge sure is inconsistent and incoherent...

I couldn't get halfway through Quicksilver [..] 99% crap. Big disappointment.

Something you have not seen the half of is, in your opinion, 99% crap? Really? You're a master of extrapolation.

readability

[Scrameustache]

And there is no reason why your earlier, informative post got modded down.

That huge block of text was unreadable and therefore just noise in the thread.
He attempted karma whoring and got modded down "troll" because he posted something unpleasant in an attempt to get validation.

With all the people complaining about Quicksilver's supposedly unbearable lenght, you should expect quite a bit of intolerance for large blocks of unformatted text. They don't have the patience for a 900 page novel, they won't tolerate this kind of crap. And we don't care if you're at work, if you don't have time to post it right, don't.

spam

[butane_bob2003]

I get about 30 penis enlargement spam per day, I'd say that is a pretty accurate number for this week. Stephenson has a finger on the pulse of technology all right. (the other 60 were for misc discount drugs and cracked microsoft products)

I'm on the second chapter of 'Confusion' after just having read 'Quicksilver'. I will put these up there with some of the best fiction I've ever read. And it's a great deal more informative than most of them, which is a plus. I find accurate and interesting historical references tied into the story on almost every page.