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Windows XP To Get Longhorn Technologies
SilentChris writes "According to CNet, Microsoft is revising their plan for Longhorn. In addition to scaling back WinFS, they will also have separate releases of Avalon (the new graphical system) and Indigo (a new network architecture) for Windows XP and 2003. If most of the updates will be available for current versions of Windows, what is the incentive to upgrade?"
I have changed my plans. Pray I do not alter them any further.
-MSFT
Wwell it seems longhon keeps falling behind schedule, and Microsoft keeps cutting back features to keep the same release date. Maybe Longhorn will be another Windows Me, just something to hold everyone over until they get another release out.
If most of the updates will be available for current versions of Windows, what is the incentive to upgrade?"
That it will WORK!
I didn't know about Avalon, but Microsoft has said for quite a while they were going to be releasing Indigo for platforms other than Longhorn. Indigo is a technology that will be replacing .NET remoting and it allows for secure, reliable and transactional communication between .NET applications. It only made sense to have a version available for other versions of Windows to make sure that applications could communicate.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
What the the reason to upgrade to ME from 98? What was the reason to upgrade to XP from 2000? People like upgrades. Upgrades, no matter how small, bring features. Upgrades have the appearance of better quality and more "on-the-edge."
Plus, even if two technologies get ported, Longhorn is supposed to be a "unified" desktop with Internet, mail, etc. This is one major reason to upgrade for the tech-newbies and possibly the tech-geeks.
What was the incentive to upgrade from Windows 2000 to XP*. Let's see, we had:
- Rearranged control panel
- A new theme
- Ummm...the search puppy?
The die-hard fans will upgrade because it's the latest and greatest, everyone else will get it with their next computer, and the corporate world will wait 3 years and then take the plunge.
This is still a blow to Microsoft, but not a major one. Maybe another baby step away from the OS monoculture.
*I know there was more incentive to upgrade from Windows ME, but I'm sure many a 2000 user switched over as well.
Microsoft is adding these features to Windows XP and Windows 2003 server in order to give developers a reason to use these technologies. So they can use Avalon and Indigo in their applications and still have people on older OS's be able to use their applications. Much like how .NET was backported to Windows 98. Developers wouldn't develop applications in .NET if they knew that only a small percentage of Windows users would be able to use it.
It's a win-win IMHO, Windows developers get to use new features and develop application using more intuitive and powerful tools and Microsoft gets a larger application base for Longhorn.
-- D3X
I suppose they do this so that developers can deploy their new apps (based on Avalon and Indigo) on the XP platform as well. It makes sense - and will give a more rapid transistion. (Instead of waiting for Longhorn to get the marketshare needed to have custom Avalon/Indigo-apps written for it).
;)
But what do I know?
(The color theme for it.slashdot.org needs a revision btw)
Win98SE? This is a Linux site :-)
Seriously, there is no 'incentive to upgrade'. How many people replace one version of Windows by another? Maybe some do to get away from an unsupported version like Win95, or a version which does not support new peripherals like Win98, but not that many people upgrade. The market has moved on from the days where the choice was between Win 3.11 and Win95.
The market is in new systems. The natural (non-)decision is to get the newest version available, and that will eventually be Longhorn. Microsoft would save themselves a lot of money by not bothering to produce a new version of Windows. Then again, how long has WinXP been on sale? Maybe they are doing exactly that.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
...because MS and Adobe would work together just to screw you over.
Chances are the Adobe app is making use of features _new_ to XP. So, what you are essentially bitching about is that these new features were not back ported to whatever previous version of MS OS you used.
And of course, if MS did back port these new features, you'd be bitching how MS is always adding new fangled features to released version of OS that do nothing but add bugs, insecurity, and instability.
Just admit there is nothing MS could ever do to appease you, and quit fucking using their software. That's why god gave you Linux.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
This is a smart move. First they schedule the release way ahead in the future, so the competition thinks they have plenty of time. Then, they release the new futures early, so that they are first to market. By the time Longwait is released, there will be plenty of application support already. In the meantime, the hype their technologies sky high so people will forget about looking for alternatives, let alone implement them. Wow, respect.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
... but the joy of hacking the latest Microsoft license registration procedure.
My best sig is this one.
Nothing's forcing you not to use Vegas, Cleaner, and Combustion. All 3 blow the doors off the Adobe equivalent. Vote with your wallet.
If you envied the work Apple did in the Quartz graphics layer, or are supportive of the work Keith Packard is doing for X.org, then Avalon is right up your alley. Goodbye, old GDI. (Well, almost. GDI will now be .dlls that can be called up by Avalon, to display GDI in a window for old apps.
I understand a modicum of cynicism - but claims that these changes are for arbitrary lack of compatibility betray an unalloyed ignorance.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Longhorn will automatically render the Slashdot IT page in a better colour. It might even get people to switch from Linux to Windows.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
While I realize that the majority of the /. crowd is from the UNIX world, I also realize that it would be more professional to replace the broken window graphic with something more appropriate.
The technologies coming out of Microsoft might not be as innovative as they claim it to be, but it's certainly groundbreaking for a company with such magnitude as Microsoft to consent to the superiority of researched technologies.
Longhorn is going to include some exciting new technologies such as Avalon, WinFS, Indigo, and most importantly their new Monad (you really must research this, as it could do for Longhorn what BASIC did for Microsoft's first operating systems). While these are just codenames for abstract ideas (and possibly just buzzwords) it will certainly be exciting to see some of these things deployed.
This is the longest Microsoft has ever waited to release an OS. Windows 95 to Windows 98 took only 3 years, as the names describe. Windows Longhorn looks as if it will take up to 7 years. What can be done in seven years' time with hundreds of emplyees? Amazing stuff.
Linux has some serious issues. I'm not going to argue how many compared to Windows, because that argument would be futile. Instead I will offer my "credibility" as an unbiased commentator:
I'm 17 and have been using Linux since 2001 after getting my first computer sometime in '98. It didn't take long for me to fall in love with it. Since then, I've been using Debian GNU/Linux for the past few years, and enjoy it's breadth of developer friendly software. I've used FreeBSD, and plan to play around with BSD's like OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, and even get a Mac G5. I also plan to make my own Linux from Scratch, an embedded uClinux distro with BusyBox, and other fun things like that; eventually working my way up to hacking on the Linux kernel. I would also enjoy testing out Hurd, as well.
However, if what's coming out of Microsoft is as developer friendly as advertised to be (what really IS these days anyways, but that's not for me to predict) then Linux might have a problem. If people are really going to be able to hack up some XML applicaton like what's hyped, there might be some serious problems, no matter how many Mono's or GNU DotNETs there are.
Until the community stops getting cocky and starts getting worried, nothing will ever go anywhere. Being afraid is a good thing(tm), because it gets people working harder.
So, again, I emplore somebody to please change the graphic to more accurately represent what we have to fear this new century.
-Devin Torres
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. -- Larry Wall
Will Microsoft use activation to force me to upgrade? In other words, will Microsoft ever stop giving out activation codes for any of the products that require activation?
No, Microsoft will not use activation as a tool to force people to upgrade. Activation is merely an anti-piracy tool, nothing else.
Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product's lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.
Indeed, this is the facet not often considered when anyone upgrades -- beyond the announced features, what other things are creeping into my system. "Oh, I've got XML for Office! Neat!" as opposed to "Oh, I'm stuck with their bastardized and copyrighted version of XML! Shit!"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
They're not scaling back WinFS. There's no where in the article it even states this. All it says is that it will be available in beta form upon the client release.
For some reason, Slashdot has trouble reporting anything accurately on WinfS. Anyone remember the previous case where Microsoft decided not to include some of the more esoteric features (like some networking functions). Slashdot, of course, picked it up and reported it as "WinFS cancelled," and other tech news sites picked it up. For months, people on Slashdot continued to refer to WinFS as cancelled, when they were blissfully ignorant to the fact it wasn't. Sigh. All it takes is a little basic research first.
What are you attempting to say? That XP SP1 and SP2 cost money? That W2K sp1-4 cost money? That NT4 SP1-6 cost money? I don't get what you're saying.
;)
And SP1 broke XP machines? I've never heard of that, and I've upgraded around 20 AND read slashdot regularly
Jeez, if I had mod points I would mod you "unintelligible"
Okay, so I know that is the kind of thing that the FLOSS zealots say all the time. But it is so obviously true in this case.
MS is betting the company on Longhorn. No really. Their two major revenue streams, and the foundation of the modern MS is Windows and Office. Windows is a twisty maze of backwards compatibility all alike to keep both users and developers favorable to the platform. Office is packed full of enterprise features that Joe User never needs because Joe CEO does.
MS down to it's ancient roots with custom programming languages and tools, is firmly in the realm of the rich client. Linux and BSD and OS X (and SkyOS and BeOS, and Syllable and . . . ) are becoming more prevalent because suddenly fully half of a users apps are portable! No not Office or Photoshop, but Yahoo and Google. Thin clients!
The gigahertz war between AMD and Intel last left MS with a glut of processing power and no software capable of using it. Once MS caught up with the processor, they drove home the power of the rich client, and reestablished their platform as the primary environment for building them.
It's happened again. Processor power is far beyond what 90% of the increasingly computer literate public needs, just like when x86 procs hit 1Ghz. But this time there is a growing base of truly alternative development and user platforms (not just OS/2 and MacOS 8, but the various POSIX and embedded platforms) while on the other side, the thin client has a solid hold in several key applications (email, dictionaries, encyclopedias, hell, even video games).
MS wants to emulate the success of Windows 95. They want to bring an enterprise technology to the masses (NT, XP was really just a dry run for that), show users that there is a reason for all this new hardware, and reestablish themselves as THE application development environment for rich clients. It's not just getting users to upgrade (though that would make them super happy) its getting developers to use the technology.
And they've realized that they can't bet on a huge upgrade kick to make Avalon and Indigo dominant, XP taught and continues to teach them that. So bringing these heavy investment technologies to a wider audience is the only way that MS can continue to be the largest software company in the world, and see any kind of rapid return on Longorn. If they loose this battle, they become the desktop version of Sun Microsystems. A giant, who still does good work, and whose technologies still have some milage, but ultimately in it's final days
The name of Longhorn is pretty easy to track if you look at the previous version of Windows (Whistler) and the blue-sky version of Windows (Blackcomb), and know a bit about the Pacific Northwest (specifically, the Whistler ski resort up in Canada). At the Whistler resort, there are two mountains, Whistler and Blackcomb. Between the lifts for the two mountains, there is a tavern called Longhorn. The initial plan for Windows was supposed to have Longhorn be a small release between XP (Whistler) and Blackcomb, with Blackcomb coming around 2006 or 2007. Thus, Longhorn, because it's a stop on your way from Whistler to Blackcomb. Somewhere along the line, Longhorn became a much more prominant release, so the codename is no longer as appropriate, but that's the root of the name.
Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows has an entry in the XP FAQ (near the top, scroll down about 1/5th of the page) and in the Longhorn FAQ (near the bottom) that mention this in lesser detail, though he gets the location of Longhorn wrong. The Garibaldi Lift Co. is the tavern at the base of Whistler. Quite a nice little tavern, too, if you've got friends who are into skiing or mountain biking and you're not.
What is easy to do is turn on automatic update so Microsoft can install and run anything they want on my machines anytime they want. No, thanks.
/., why don't you check your facts first? Aparently you missed options 2-4.
You're kidding right? The very first time automatic update tries to turn on, it asks you if you want to:
1. Have it download and install updates automatically (great for grandma)
2. Just download, but ask me before installing
3. Notify me, but don't download or install anything.
4. Totally turn off automatic updates
Before you join the, "windows sucks no matter what" group on
I'm sick of this tripe. I don't mean to jump on you alone, but I've seen way too much of this FUD parroted around Slashdot, and you're the winner of my rant. :-)
If Microsoft doesn't innovate, then why is it that the list of improvements in the Linux 2.6 kernel reads like a feature list of NT from the early 90's?
That's just comparing the kernel, and I won't even go into the features that NT has that Linux still hasn't implemented.
You probably didn't know that NT already had those features, because most people don't seem to know much about Windows beyond the GUI. They assume that what they see on the surface is all that goes on. (And don't make the mistake that the NT kernel is the only innovative part about Windows.)
My point is that you shouldn't yell about the lack of innovation in a product just because the feature you're looking for isn't there.
I don't understand what is so bad about NT GDI.
Scaling? World transformations that provide scaling, rotation and shearing have always (since NT3.1) existed. Why isn't it used more often? IDK, but I'm sure they could start using it without a complete rewrite.
Acceleration? Driver capability negotiation has always been implemented. DirectX also supports many optimizations.
Possible movement of the window manager into user mode? I'm sure that win32k.sys could be moved back into winsrv.dll like it was before NT4.
Graphics composition (IE caching of window data to avoid application refresh)? Trivial redirection of video ops to a memory DC and the fact that transparency is already supported without refreshing the lower window, tell me that this could be accomplished without a rewrite too. Besides, I don't know if I like the idea of spending all that memory on storing large bitmaps of how each window looks.
Vector based drawing? Enhanced Metafiles have always been supported in NT. You can easily redirect the output (all GDI commands can be recorded) of a progam into a EMF, view/edit the records and play it back any time, even with a world transformation.
Use 3d polygons instead of a 2d frame buffer? This would require considerable modification but only to the way that regions are computed; you can already put direct3d objects in a window with a polygonal region around the edges. One way or the other, you are still outputting to a 2d surface. And really, what is the point? Woo 3d icons.
Really, what is so broken about GDI that it needs to be replaced? IMO, there are far more important things to be overhauled in Windows than the video system. Rewriting a major component to provide eye candy should be a very low priority.
Another thing is that Avalon does not fill the same role as GDI does; Avalon also does what USER does and some shell stuff too. I'm saying that the important things in Avalon could be implemented using GDI.