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Revenge Really Does Taste Sweet
Wizzy Wig writes "The Toronto Star is reporting on scientific experiments showing a link between revenge and the 'pleasure center' of the human brain, thus putting a nature spin on something heretofore thought of as a nurture based, or learned, emotion."
Revenge is always one of those things that, besides are better ethics not too, always makes one feel good.
.
It's never a matter of being right or wrong, it's that feeling of justice I suppose, the feeling that we have, in our eyes, made things right in the world
Of course, it's also immensely selfish and one sided.
Cheers,
James Carr
After 17 years of marriage, a man dumped his wife for a younger woman.
...including the curtain rods.
The downtown luxury apartment was in his name and he wanted to remain there with his new love so he asked the wife to move out and then he would buy her another place.
The wife agreed to this, but asked that she be given 3 days on her own there, to pack up her things.
While he was gone, the first day she lovingly put her personal belongings into boxes and crates and suitcases.
On the second day, she had the movers come and collect her things.
On the third day, she sat down for the last time at their candlelit Dining table, soft music playing in the background, and feasted on a pound of shrimp and a bottle of Chardonnay.
When she had finished, she went into each room and deposited a few of the resulting shrimp shells into the hollow of the curtain rods. She then cleaned up the kitchen and left.
The husband came back, with his new girl, and all was bliss for the first few days. Then it started, slowly but surely. Clueless, the man could not explain why the place smelled so bad.
They tried everything; cleaned &mopped and aired the place out. Vents were checked for dead rodents, carpets were steam cleaned, Air fresheners were hung everywhere. Exterminators were brought in; the carpets were replaced, and on it went.
Finally, they could take it no more and decided to move. The Moving Company arrived and did a very professional packing job, taking everything to their new home...
What this means to me is that, if we want to be civilized humans, we have to go against these basic, animalistic instincts. There are lots of things that feel good in the short term, that we'd all love to do, that stimulate the same pleasure centers in our brain... but if we want to be able to function as a society, we pretty much have to learn to value the common good over petty revenge. Then again, there might be a logical reason for this connection. Take the highway example mentioned. Perhaps, by not letting the person back in, we're making it so that he won't be in a position to cut more people off... thus increasing the common good. So, do we let him back in and face his poor driving once more, or do we respond in kind? On a basic, primal level, we choose the second. However, I think that revenge tactics like this are only effective in the short term. In more long-term situations, like trying to function in a community where you interact with the same people every day, revenge only invites escalation, whereas forgiveness diffuses the problem before it can. Is anyone else here thinking "Prisoner's dilemma"?
Love the Third Amendment?
Many animals display social behavior - from ants and termites to blue jays, llamas, dolphins, monkeys, and people. Is it really so surprising that these organisms (including people) might have a built-in, evolved accounting system for social relationships -- if A cheats me, it feels good the cheat A back. The basic tit-for-tat strategy is very well known in iterated game theory so its no surprise that it might be hardwired into social organisms.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
A woman finds out that her husband is cheating on her while stationed in Saudi Arabia. So she sends him a very special care package. He is very excited to get a package from his wife back home. He finds that it contains a batch of home made cookies and a VHS tape of his favorite TV shows.
He invites a couple of his buddies over and they're all sitting around having a great time eating the cookies and watching some episodes of South Park.
Right in the middle of one episode the tape cuts to a home video of his wife on her knees giving his best friend oral sex.
After a few seconds, he does his business in her mouth and she turns and spits the load right into the mixing bowl of cookie dough. She then looks at the camera and says, "By the way, I want a divorce."
Now we know why every movie villain takes two minutes two tell the protagonist how he is going to finish him off, and proceed to take over the world. ...even though it usually leads to their destructiong. You're wired to feel good about doing it. And here I thought that was -bad- writing.
JERRY: What is the point of all this?
GEORGE: Revenge.
JERRY: Oh, the best revenge is living well.
GEORGE: There's no chance of that.
Free XBox, PS2
One of (American or British, can't remember) soldiers that fought in WWII said in one interview "Yes. I was killing. And I enjoyed that. And I feel ashamed.". It was first and last interview, he refused to give any after that.
Many things can give pleasure. Take a look at computer games, their aim (let's say DOOM3) and realize the fact, that this - not "winning" the whole game itself (as it's impossible in most multiplayer games) - is pleasant.
Killing, destroying, burning, making money in not-always-legal ways, ruining other people. Yes, that can give pleasure. Thanks to computer games everyone can do these things without harming anyone.
I remember reading an interesting game-theory book (Robert Axelrod) that stated, basically, that reciprocity promotes cooperation. In other words, tit-for-tat is a good strategy.
After I read the book in college, I actually employed the strategy in everyday life. My experience also suggests tit-for-tat works. One guy did a bad deed; and I responded in kind. It did feel very satisfying to get revenge-- like an intrinsic form of justice. He didn't do it again.
As long as you respond proportionally third parties don't look down on you and you don't have to worry about the same person screwing with you again because they learn the lesson of reciprocity.
ONE CAVEAT: Don't use tit-for-tat on crazy / unstable people. They're liable to respond again disproportionately. There the strategy doesn't work so well.
That's my experience.
Sadly evolution has probably coded that revenge is sweet, as long as it is somebody lower in the pecking order.
Letter To Iran
The point is that revenge has a biological basis; it's not a learned behavior, as was previously thought. This has serious implications about human behavior and society.
WWD4D?
How is this slashdot worthy? Are we all a bunch of revenge-warring geeks looking for some deserved payback on the bullies of yesteryear?
DIE SCO DIE *stab stab stab*
ahhhhhh.
of course not.
South africa had seen a very bitter and long conflict not just between white and black but between whites and whites. Brown and black. Black and black. Zulus where used by the white goverment as a way to keep the ANC down. People from india where put in a middle position. Jews were on the outside white but just as prosecuted.
So why was there no revenge? Their sure was enough on all sides to be bitter about.
Because all sides realized that revenge was not an option. Even the neo-nazis realized that either there was peace or they were going to get slaughtered.
Peace was possible because no side wanted to risk war.
An example to the world that we can rise above ourselves. And sadly one that is almost impossible to duplicate. Usually at least one side thinks that he will win the war. The person cutting you off doesn't consider that he will die horribly in an accident or that you will gun him down. The rapist does not consider he will go to jail. The troll does not consider that someone will look him up and punch his face in.
South africa didn't take revenge because they were afraid of what revenge would do to them.
So I disagree with out. I think revenge is very usefull. Most usefull when both sides fear the potential of revenge.
The extreme side of the lack of fear of revenge are terrorist attacks. Al Quada could attack because they didn't fear anything america could do back. Or do you really think Osama Bin Laden gives a damn about the people on his side killed?
On the other hand america can act like a real prick because it does not live in fear that someday the world will get revenge. Look at vietnam. America slaughtered yet lives free from ever having to face the consequences.
Revenge is sweet but the fear of revenge keeps humans "civilized" where civilized translates as "from bashing each others head in".
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It's too bad that in many western societies Justice is almost equivalent to Revenge.
This may be a little offtopic...
Justice should never appeal to the "lower" human feeling, but rather be designed to prevent crime from happending in the first place. Revenge has no place in Justice as it does nothing to "undo" the crime after it happened.
Crimes are prevented by:
- Eliminating the reason (for example poverty and social inequalities).
- Education (for example learn to deal with jealousy, envy, and other desires and feelings in a non-violent way)
- Deterrance (if you commit a crime, face the consequences).
- Reparation (not preventing anything, but necessary to repair the damage caused - this is not revenge!)
This is a big difference, although in practise the differences are subtle; i.e. are you locking somebody up because of revenge or deterrance?When somebody is punished for a crime, there should be no pleasure and no feeling of revenge or even accomblishment! Rather there should be the urge to understand why the crime happened and the understanding that this is necessary to deter the next.