The Giants of Anime are Coming

Wired is running a story about the Giants of Anime which discusses numerous things happening on the anime front, including the new Ghost in the Shell movie, and the upcoming Miyazaki release "Howl's Moving Castle". This is something of a background piece for people somewhat unfamiliar, but it also covers a lot of interesting bits that the fans might enjoy as well.

Comments

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[NorthernMinx]

I'd say Ghost in the Shell! A lot of people are going to say Spirited Away because on the exposure it got.

Greater influence

[StevenHenderson]

Personally, I find it interesting to see how anime is having a greater influence in all art forms with time. It has gone from a cult-ish art form to now being featured in music videos (Linkin Park's sensational "Breaking the Habit") as well as a majestic scene in Tarantino's Kill Bill. And these are the obvious ones. As the article says, we have seen it in the Matrix, etc. This is not something that is going away anytime soon...

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[cabazorro]

I'm truly split between
Ghost in the Shell
and
my Neighboor Totoro
and I'm not anywhere near
to make up my damn mind.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[supun]

End of Evangelion

A great (second) ending to the Neon Genesis Evangelion series.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[mirko]

I don't like anime which I consider dull and boring.
Akira was a fantasdtic comic but didn't make it on a screen.
I do not know the other you mention but there's ONE anime which actually carried me, it was Hotaru no haka".
Very few anime were THAT convincing.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[Soul-Burn666]

Honestly, though, I think no full-length anime film can ever come close to a full-length anime series with 26~ episodes.
Sure, the movie can be amazing and very cinematic, but 1.5-2 hours is not enough time to build a character with the sophistication some anime builds them.
Sure, movies can build very complex ideas and characters (regardless if it's JP or US movie/series) but usually it makes you think "well, that's a character I only seen for the first time an hour ago..." instead of learning about the character from 10-20 episodes, in many different situations and mini-stories.

Ofcourse, this applies to movies vs series regardless of their origin and ofcourse there are also stupid, shallow series and good, complex movies.

Re:What's the fun...

[ObjectiveGiant]

"...what's exactly the fun of watching a cartoon in a category where a lot of real movies are, imho, better ?"

A lot? I'll give it to you that there are a few out there but when you look at the ratio of good anime titles to the entire catalogue and do the same comparison with a comparable movie category, I believe anime wins by a landslide. If nothing else, you have a large volume of enjoyable material.

I think the downside to Anime is the translation factor. I know that when I'm watching even the good flicks that I'm missing so much because I don't speak the native language. The phenominal visuals and character depth can easily be undermined by poor dialogue.

My favorite plus in regards to Anime is that it offers the ability to have rediculous character/monster design that would be impossible to fund/produce in the same live action genre. (At least in volume anyway.)

Are there any live action movies out there that have ninja's fighting horribly grotesque monster villians? Not that I know of... (If there are, I would bet the production quality and special effects are very poor compared against something like Ninja Scroll for example.)

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[Mprx]

Akira has the most impressive animation, but My Neighbor Totoro is the greatest. It proves you don't need violence and conflict to have a great story, only great characters. I've seen it compared to the Winnie The Pooh stories (the originals, not the Disney crap), which also show how a flawless children's story can be enjoyed by everybody.

Why are geeks so fascinated by anime?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I didn't like some anime movies I've seen, but a lot of people seem to be really obsessed with it. And a lot of those obsessed seem to fall into the geek category.

So here is my question:
What is so fascinating about anime (as compared to other movie genres) and why do animes have such an geek appeal?

Re:Why are geeks so fascinated by anime?

[azmodean]

The primary reason I tend to enjoy anime more than I enjoy hollywood produced movies is the lack of pandering present in much of anime (much, not all, there are many anime that do pander, but I digress). The reason this is so was touched on briefly in the article. Many artists have total or near-total control of their story from the time they first think of it untill it is released, that just doesn't happen too often in hollywood (and when it does, I tend to like those movies) Many anime producers are allowed to do their work unhampered by focus groups or executives telling them what can and cannot be in their work.

Another reason I like anime is that much of it is not watered down as most hollywood fare is, when someone dies it isn't some quick event that is glossed over; it's messy, it's gory, and it looks painful. I think one of the most unhealthy concepts I have ever seen in mass media is the "looney tunes" treatment of violence. Portraying violence as harmless and fun is much more disturbing to me than seeing more realistic violence with reprecussions attached. I could go on and on, but it would likely fall on deaf ears anyway.

Re:Why are geeks so fascinated by anime?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anime is more likely to have depth than American produced works. It's not an inherent property of either. It's just the way it works out. The overall artistic value of anime is just generally higher.

There's also that fact that it tends to get filtered multiple times before coming over here. First, the series that end up over here were also at least moderately popular in Japan. Second, anything that comes over here has already appealed to somebody over here. Either a distribution company thinks it will sell, or a fansubber likes it enough to work on.

Definitely, there's some real crap that's produced over there. Anything brought over here is pretty much guaranteed to be the best of the best. If you did the same thing with American shows, they'd start to look a little more equal. Still, I haven't seen more than a handful of American shows that are as appealing as a good anime series that you can find at least once a year.

Re:Why are geeks so fascinated by anime?

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned directly is duration. Standard series lengths are 13 or 26 episodes (about 5 or 10 hours), plus an attached movie. Standard American faire comes in a stand-alone 2 hour movie, or a indefinite-length series.

What I've noticed is that in 10 hours, you can introduce characters, introduce the world, wander around to get used to them all, then develop a real storyline within that setting. You have time to do it all without rushing, and have depth. Then add an attached movie, where you don't have to do character and world introductions, and you get 2 hours of plot.

Once you get used to that sort of pacing, a 2 hour movie seems really short. A good director can pull it off, but most end up with characters that you don't know well enough to relate to and a plot too short to have any depth. Compare Lord of the Rings, or the Star Wars trilogy, where you had more time to get to know the characters and the world.

As for American TV, they try to make it to last forever, so there's very little plot/development. They have lots of writers, with turnover, working on different episodes, and rarely a central plotline. It can be entertaining, but it can't compare with the intensity you get when the plot of a show you're interested in reaches the climax (or false-climax, or whatever), and the rest of the series depends on what happens in the next few moments. The comparison here would be Buffy or Babylon 5, where they had lots of development and season-level plots, such that watching season 3 is totally different than watching season 1.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[jandrese]

Ah yes, Grave of the Fireflies. I've traumatized several people into never ever watching animation again with that film. It's not the sort of movie I just whip out when people ask what they should see, it's definatly something you need to get mentally prepared for first.

What a loaded question. What makes a movie great?

[SmallFurryCreature]

Should it be purely entertaining? Tell a involving story? Make you think? Is the animation important?

Even then you aren't finished. Exactly what do you find entertaining. What does make a story involving. What stuff have you already thought about and don't need to be reminded by a movie?

The one that made me think was "Grave of the fireflies" a movie you could compare with the western "Empire of the sun". Both tell the what happens to kids in times of war. I liked one review that claimed fireflies was the best movie he ever watched and never wanted to watch again.

Of course if you like Akira and Ghost in the shell you might find fireflies very slow moving even boring. Perhaps. Depends for what reason you like the first two.

Another highly regarded movie you don't list is "Angels egg". One of the few movies you could watch without knowing any japanese and still be able to "understand" what is going on.

This will probabaly get me modded down but the movies you list are the typical "hollywood approved" anime movies people in the west have heard about. Doesn't mean the movies are bad or any less then their more unknown, in the west, siblings but if you really want to find the greatest anime movie ever you need to do a little bit more watching. Akira may then still be the greatest to you but at least you will have a longer list to show you watched anime other then the ones with a western approved release.

Oh and my favorite movie? I don't really have such a thing. There are far to many great movies I have seen that I like for different reasons. I am afraid that if I pick a single movie that "scores" best in all my catogories that I am falling into the hollywood trap of creating movies to appeal to everyone that end up appealing to no-one. Just saw a docu on Red Dwarf. American movie studie wants to cast Hugh Grant as Lister.

You don't understand the power of animation

[SmallFurryCreature]

With animation you can do things that can't be done in real life.

I am not talking giant robots here. I am talking far simpler things. Scene at an airport. Scene at the busiest crossing in tokyo. Scene with a kid.

Ever notice how many of the live action series take place INSIDE? Because it is cheaper to film in a studio then on location. Canadian cities are very popular to shoot series that pretend to be in american cities because it is cheaper to close down a street for a shoot.

You might also notice that many anime involve childeren as the leads. This is a huge problem in live action as there are very strict laws about what you can and cannot make a child do. You might have noticed that series in the west about high school students have actors in their 30's.

Ultimately anime is just another media through wich a story teller can tell their story. There are a lot. Just like you can be told the story of "The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" through a radio-play, a series of books, a series of comics, a tv series, an upcoming movie and even a computer game. All have their own charms and give their own capabilities to the story teller.

I get the idea that you can't imagine those capabilites as you seem to think that only "real" movies are worth it.

• A radioplay is very cheap to setup. You simply "tell" the audience you are on a different planet, make some noises and that creates a different planet. A budget of a pound will do it. You only need actors who sound like their part. The ugliest actor can play the most beautifull character. Disadvantage. You need a listener with imagination. A radioplay can also break the 4th wall (I think it is called) and talk to the audience.
• Books are even cheaper as you don't even need actors or sound effects. What you write is the world, if the reader has the imagination and you are skilled enough the entire set is created in the mind. People can imagine far more then even the fanciest CG can generate. Even better. A beautifull girl can be the beauty of the reader not the writer. Books don't have a fourth wall. Yo u can talk the reader all you want. Thought by a character is very very easy to express.
• Comics/manga take away some of the freedom to imagine but gather the power of "a picture is worth a thousand words". But this comes at the expense of extra effort. You know need two skill sets, telling a story and drawing, wich you didn't need with a plain text book. The 4th wall is starting to close in but thought by a character can still be easily expressed.
• TV and movie live action give you to power to create a world and have the viewer experience your vision. You loose some of the imagination, good horror movies don't show horror they make you imagine it, but gain the power of a moving picture speaks a million words. Disadvantage is that you are going to be restricted to the real world. There are only so many things you are allowed to do with actors. You now also need an actor who sounds the part, can act the part and looks like the part.
• A computer game gives you that rarest of capabilties. To give the reader, a tiny amount, of control on the story. The text only hitchhiker adventure was much like a book but with the idea of control. A style of storytelling that is not yet fully explored.

Animation comes in with the live action but removes the need to find suitable looking actors and the need to build complex sets or get permission to film in real world location.

Animation gains the power of movie images without the restraint on the imagination of the author. If the author can imagine it then it can be done in animation.

As I said before this isn't just about special effects but about simple things like a war movie involving childeren. Filming in real life locations.

Ultimatly only a snob would dismiss a story telling media. It is the story that matters and how well it is told. If war and peace had been done in a comic would you not have read it? Read Lone wolf and cub sometime

I forgot to add Graveof the fireflies.

[mandrake*rpgdx]

An excellent film that my wife will never ever watch again. Another good one is Chinese Ghost Story.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[myc_lykaon]

As far as depth of story goes I have always prefered 'Roujin Z'. A somewhat bizarre but pointed message about the issues of an aging population.

just my 2p

Re:My Guess

[UserGoogol]

Dragonball Z is to Anime as Poison Sandwiches are to Food.

Re:Greatest Anime Film?

[bircho]

Pushing too hard? It's based in a true story. That's hard...

"It is the fault of disney"

[SmallFurryCreature]

Well not really wich is why it is in quotes. Rather it is the fault of the people who watch disney.

For some reason the idea is in the west that only live action is capable of telling "real" stories. These people just like the author of this article always have to point out the turd fighting super giant robot girls. At the same time neatly forgetting that this kinda stuff appears in hollywood movies as well. Or exactly what is "Attack of the 50 foot woman" about again?

There are other reasons to, so here is my bullet lists of reason why anime isn't being seen in the rest of the world.

• Cartoons are for kids. Partly the reason but doesn't explain then why not more anime is shown in childerens programs.
• Language barrier. Japanese is a very difficult language. Not just to learn but also to translate. Americans ain't good with foreign languages. The german detective series derrick is highly regarded. Do americans know it? Doubt it. So either you dub it, hard to fit english into japenese mouths, sub it, americans can't read, edit it, get pokemon and turn anime into american kid cartoon.
• Culture flows naturally from the above. Sex is the simpest. Compare the pokemon manga as released in japan and in the west. In japan the girl got BOOBS. The american release has that edited out so they appear almost flat chested or at least showing a lot less cleavage. More then a few manga/anime I read have underaged drinking. Japan is a nation of boozers and it doesn't seem to considered a problem although it is illegal. That however is a nono in america.

  But while nudity and sexyness is more accepted in japanese anime, sex itself is far more restricted. Not at all unusual for at least one of the leads to be a virgin.

  Simply put the people in manga/anime can behave to different for western tastes. Or at least that is what tv/movie bosses think.

All this may make it difficult to show most manga/anime in the west. Exactly how do you market an extremely popular series like Ranma? At kids? It got nudity. At adults? The main chars don't even kiss. Do you translate typical japanese things to their western equivalent even if that ruins any chance of the joke coming across? Do you explain the joke? Make up your own?

I already see such things when I watch The Muppets on dutch tv. 2 stories for the price of one. The english audio and the dutch subs.

Disney was a business man and story teller who really studied the art of animation. He certainly has tried to create animation that was not just for kids but sadly most people think disney == kids. There fore cartoon == kids.

To bad those people will miss out but it is there loss not mine. Disney isn't to blame. People that dismiss intresting forms of story telling because it takes a certain form are. It is like saying casablance is slapstick because laurel & hardy is black & white.

If you are going to blame anyone blaim the catogorirs. Who on earth would put Shindlers List in a category with Police Academy? Then why is Grave of the fireflies listed in the same category as Pokemon?