Posted by
michael
on from the wi-fi-all-the-way dept.
rookie1 writes "According to this article and this, Ericsson has shut down its Bluetooth division. Ericsson has not made any formal announcement. Considering SonyEricsson is a major supporter of Bluetooth technology, will this have a huge impact on its adoption?"
Between 802.11 and the upcoming Zigbee stuff, it won't be missed by many.
-- "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
Re:Few will miss it...
by
Maxon
·
· Score: 2, Informative
802.15.4 (the protocol Zigbee is based on) does not have enough bandwidth or the QoS to perform voice communications the way Bluetooth does.
Re:Few will miss it...
by
Maxon
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Oops, hit submit too early... To finish my thoughts..
Zigbee (802.15.4) was designed for long battery life time and simple design. It achieves this long battery life goal with keep the receivers off most of the time. Depending upon configuration and the accuracy of you're timers, you're receiver might only be on a few milliseconds every couple of minutes. Not good for low latency or high bandwidth, but works wonders for making batteries last a year or more.
Bluetooth is about speed and QoS. Eats much more power than Zigbee, and only supports 7 devices in a Piconet. Zigbee is designed to support thousands of devices in a network.
Bluetooth and Zigbee are complementary technologies, not competitive. Even the IEEE says so (Bluetooth is on top of 802.15.1).
(An early 802.15.4 adopter)
Bluetooth is not dying (ignore Netcraft)
by
plover
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Well, according to both of the articles it's the research team that created Bluetooth, and the technologies around it. They are not the group that is responsible for incorporating Bluetooth into the other products.
It could be as simple as "the standard has been set, the goals have been accomplished, move on to new things." Since Ericsson is no longer the sole creative force behind Bluetooth, it makes financial sense to not keep 125 people employed to argue one seat on the Bluetooth Special Interest Group.
It's too bad for Bluetooth in that I think Ericsson had some brilliant visionaries doing this work, and that those people are no longer focused on Bluetooth. However, they're being incorporated into other units which can only help them overall.
It's not good news, it's not bad news. It's just news. The timing is interesting as I see Bluetooth now on the cusp of adoption by every cell phone maker for their mid- and possibly even low-end phones.
( And Michael, wi-fi is not necessarily a good replacement for Bluetooth. The higher power requirements for wi-fi mean shorter battery life, which is death for cell phones. And Bluetooth incorporates discovery protocols which are all geared toward personal networking, not internet networking. I think wi-fi would be a really chatty way to accomplish those goals, again at the expense of battery life. )
-- John
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
mccalli
·
· Score: 5, Informative
When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Well, admittedly typing this reply on a bluetooth keyboard might not count as useful, so I'll have to go for an hour ago when I used it transfer photos. Before that I'd have to stretch a whole two hours ago when I used the built-in bluetooth on this Powerbook to communicate with a bluetooth mobile in order to send an SMS. And before that, it would be about five hours ago when I synchronised my address books. Without taking the phone out of my pocket.
Enough yet? Or shall I cast my memory as far back as this morning to dig out some more usage?
Eericsson shifted the bleutooth work to a difrferent division folks..no stopping bluetooth at ericsson but a shifting of resources..
Micahel why did you avoid reading the 2nd paragraph?
-- Don't Tread on OpenSource
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
RapmasterT
·
· Score: 4, Informative
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Last time? I'd guess about 5 minutes ago.
1. I use a bluetooth connection to my laptop to edit my cell phone contact list with a real keyboard.
2. I use a bluetooth headset to talk on my cell phone without a wire catching on everything.
3. I have a bluetooth GPS unit that I use map routing with my pocketpc.
4. I have a bluetooth router on my home network to provide LAN access to my pocketpc (WiFi drains the battery in about 1.5 hours, bluetooth in 5.5).
Too many people make the mistake of thinking that since THEY don't use a technology, nobody does. Bluetooth is not only gaining wide acceptance, but it's very useful as well. Short range, low power consumption is a killer combination for many many uses.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
MrDalliard
·
· Score: 2, Informative
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
...like using my Bluetooth enabled mobile with my PB G4 to pick up e-mail and web-browse ?
Or using a Bluetooth headset in conjunction with my phone? (As it's illegal to drive in the UK whilst holding/operating a phone in your hand ?)
I use it- but perhaps GPS and Windows CE 3.0 isn't a significant number of devices to you. Personally, I'm waiting to get a GPS phone to start programming and testing a GPS-aware Web Browser for Windows CE- I think such a beast could be quite usefull.
-- SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
Enry
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Sheesh. Just as I get my Mac, Linux box, and Palm T3 talking bluetooth wirelessly to my GSM phone.
Bluetooth = 802.11 but low cost, low power, low bandwidth.
I can control what devices connect to my BT devices. I can control what services on each device I want to offer. I can write SMS (text messages) from my PDA and have the phone send them.
No nearby 802.11 hotspot? No problem, go data through the phone.
I can sync the contacts on my laptop with those on my phone with those on my PDA. No more having different contacts all over the place.
There's various BT apps for PalmOS that allow you to have a small whiteboard/chat over BT. Great for meetings.
All without a wire. Not one is needed for communicating.
BT is currently languishing because Windows doesn't really support it. Linux has okay support (still needs some help) but Macs and embedded devices are doing pretty good with it.
Re:I doubt it...
by
kev0153
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I use my bluetooth enabled phone to synch my address books. It is so much easier typing contact info on a real keyboard and then moving it to the phone. I also use my phone as a modem. I can establish a wireless connection between my GPRS/Bluetooh enabled phone and my Powerbook and surf the internet. Not at any blazing speeds (yet) but as long as I can get a GPRS signal I have an internet connection at my disposal.
Re:Bluetooth going away?
by
Smitty825
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· Score: 4, Informative
The CDMA providers/phone manufactures are just getting a clue about Bluetooth. In the US, Verizon should be selling a Bluetooth Motorola phone. Sprint has sold a Bluetooth Sony Ericsson phone (with lots of BT bugs), and Nokia has announced a CDMA flip-phone with bluetooth...
--
Doh!
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
davinciII
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Agreed. I love my bluetooth phone.
I love my bluetooth headset. My phone can be in my armrest in the car, and I can dial and answer by the press of a button -- with no wires.
Or if I'm on a conference call and need others to hear, I can simply make the connection to my laptop and use its microphone and speakers for my phone.
To my knowledge, the word "promoter" means someone in the second line of development. Either someone funding, or advertising it.
For example, a promoter of art is usually some rich guy, not necessarily the poor chap, who actually paints the pictures.
-- "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Re:Might not be bad
by
shaka
·
· Score: 4, Informative
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson.
Also, what's the relationship of Sony to SonyEricsson? I've had a lot of frustration with Sony and Bluetooth support in the USA.
Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications was established in 2001 by telecommunications leader Ericsson and consumer electronics powerhouse Sony Corporation. The company is equally owned by Ericsson and Sony.
-- :wq!
Re:Bluetooth not "adopting"
by
mccalli
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· Score: 4, Informative
Are the data transmissions are encrypted in any way?
Yes, they are. Not certain of the standard though, so I don't know how difficult it is to brute force.
How do you select which device you are exchanging data with?
Interface depends on device, but normally you browse for them - a list is presented, and each device is named. Of course, you have to rely on the user having set the name to something more useful than "Nokia 3650" so you can identify which Nokia 3650...
Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
Yes, you can specify that devices need to a passkey to pair with each other. The neighbours don't get the key.
Can you limit which devices can and cannot communicate with each other to prevent the nosy neighbors from listening in?
Yes - you put your device in non-discoverable mode (similar to not broadcasting the SSID of a wireless network)
How do you enter a secret access password into a headset?
Or, indeed, a mouse as I had to set up for this machine. The answer is that the passkey is fixed on such devices, but they're also tied in with a hardware id (analogous to a MAC address). Thus another, similar headset with the same passkey still wouldn't successfully pair with your device - different hardware id
You can already do that. Get an iMac with a Bluetooth module in it and buy the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. To connect your speakers and printer, get an AirPort Express. The AirPort Express also doubles (or would that be "triples") as an 802.11 basestation so you don't need a network cable either.
Re:Might not be bad
by
Hast
·
· Score: 2, Informative
If you notice those are developed by SonyEricsson. That is a different company (although AFAIK completely owned by Ericsson and Sony) and the people working at Ericsson have very little (or rather nothing) to do with people working at SE.
Eg, Ericsson make mobile hardware platforms, the stuff that is inside a mobile phone, and sell it to different phone companies. They then make a phone around that (and add stuff). SonyEricsson is one of those companies.
Ericsson also make and sell Bluetooth systems for integration into Bluetooth products. Other companies that does this are Widcomm and CSR. (CSR being the biggest IIRC.)
It is SonyEricsson that make the car and stuff. I recon they intend to keep on doing that.
Other companies make BT phones now
by
CptChipJew
·
· Score: 2, Informative
And since Sony Ericcson is one of the lesser phone makers in terms of units sold, I think the technology will be fine.
Another big step in making sure BT is here to stay is to ensure that home PC's come with adapters by default. Apple has been doing this with PowerBooks for over a year now, and that has helped the technology grow.
-- Vonal Declosion
Ericsson and SonyEricsson (was Re:Might not be bad
by
boster
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I'm a little fuzzy on the relationship between Ericsson and SonyEricsson.
Ericsson is primarily a telecom network infrastructure company. They make, for example, the base stations for wireless networks. They used to make handsets but haven't for a long time. It's not part of their core business.
They long ago entered into a 50/50 joint venture with Sony, called SonyEricsson, to make handsets -- what with Sony being a consumer electronics giant and all.
-- Madness takes its toll. Exact change please.
Re:Promoting?
by
watanuki
·
· Score: 3, Informative
"Promoter" is a membership level (the highest one, Ericsson did came up with the technology after all) of the Bluetooth SIG, and this seems to be the context of the quote.
Also notice that it says "chip" customers. The 2nd article mentioned Ericsson will still do software development.
Yes, ERICSSON drops bluetooth
by
tesmako
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Indeed this is correct, Ericsson, a company that makes neither handsets nor bluetooth peripherals are dropping their division for the Bluetooth standard.
Ericsson, and note that while Ericsson does own half of SonyEricsson it does not itself make phones anymore, were a big initiative-taker in the Bluetooth standard, which is why the division was kicking around for so long after the company really lost all reason to deal with Bluetooth itself. This is a huge non-event. It will affect Bluetooth in no way.
Not really. The speed difference is humoungous between the three. Firewire 800 trounces all, but is expensive and not omnipresent. USB 2.0 is pretty fast with its 480 MBit/sec (though FW 400 can be faster due to a better implementation) and is found in almost any (host) device. Bluetooth, with 721 Kbit/sec does not even come in close. Even with 2.1 Mbit/sec it would be a dog compared with the other too.
To top things off, FW 800 can have multiple hosts, while USB and Bluetooth are Master/Slave configurations, with the limits thereof. My BT phone can talk to other BT phones though, so it seems that they can both be master and slave at the same time, making the bluetooth spec pretty usefull in that respect.
In other words, they are quite complementary, though Firewire might only be left in specialized products in the time to come. Note that USB to Serial/Parallel convertors can be found almost anywhere. And bugger IrDA.
Slashdot Mirror
Between 802.11 and the upcoming Zigbee stuff, it won't be missed by many.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
It could be as simple as "the standard has been set, the goals have been accomplished, move on to new things." Since Ericsson is no longer the sole creative force behind Bluetooth, it makes financial sense to not keep 125 people employed to argue one seat on the Bluetooth Special Interest Group.
It's too bad for Bluetooth in that I think Ericsson had some brilliant visionaries doing this work, and that those people are no longer focused on Bluetooth. However, they're being incorporated into other units which can only help them overall.
It's not good news, it's not bad news. It's just news. The timing is interesting as I see Bluetooth now on the cusp of adoption by every cell phone maker for their mid- and possibly even low-end phones.
( And Michael, wi-fi is not necessarily a good replacement for Bluetooth. The higher power requirements for wi-fi mean shorter battery life, which is death for cell phones. And Bluetooth incorporates discovery protocols which are all geared toward personal networking, not internet networking. I think wi-fi would be a really chatty way to accomplish those goals, again at the expense of battery life. )
John
Well, admittedly typing this reply on a bluetooth keyboard might not count as useful, so I'll have to go for an hour ago when I used it transfer photos. Before that I'd have to stretch a whole two hours ago when I used the built-in bluetooth on this Powerbook to communicate with a bluetooth mobile in order to send an SMS. And before that, it would be about five hours ago when I synchronised my address books. Without taking the phone out of my pocket.
Enough yet? Or shall I cast my memory as far back as this morning to dig out some more usage?
Cheers,
Ian
Please reread the article
Eericsson shifted the bleutooth work to a difrferent division folks..no stopping bluetooth at ericsson but a shifting of resources..
Micahel why did you avoid reading the 2nd paragraph?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
What adoption? When was the last time you used a Bluetooth-enabled device to do anything useful?
Last time? I'd guess about 5 minutes ago.
1. I use a bluetooth connection to my laptop to edit my cell phone contact list with a real keyboard.
2. I use a bluetooth headset to talk on my cell phone without a wire catching on everything.
3. I have a bluetooth GPS unit that I use map routing with my pocketpc.
4. I have a bluetooth router on my home network to provide LAN access to my pocketpc (WiFi drains the battery in about 1.5 hours, bluetooth in 5.5).
Too many people make the mistake of thinking that since THEY don't use a technology, nobody does. Bluetooth is not only gaining wide acceptance, but it's very useful as well. Short range, low power consumption is a killer combination for many many uses.
Or using a Bluetooth headset in conjunction with my phone? (As it's illegal to drive in the UK whilst holding/operating a phone in your hand ?)
I'd say that was useful.
I use it- but perhaps GPS and Windows CE 3.0 isn't a significant number of devices to you. Personally, I'm waiting to get a GPS phone to start programming and testing a GPS-aware Web Browser for Windows CE- I think such a beast could be quite usefull.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Sheesh. Just as I get my Mac, Linux box, and Palm T3 talking bluetooth wirelessly to my GSM phone.
Bluetooth = 802.11 but low cost, low power, low bandwidth.
I can control what devices connect to my BT devices. I can control what services on each device I want to offer. I can write SMS (text messages) from my PDA and have the phone send them.
No nearby 802.11 hotspot? No problem, go data through the phone.
I can sync the contacts on my laptop with those on my phone with those on my PDA. No more having different contacts all over the place.
There's various BT apps for PalmOS that allow you to have a small whiteboard/chat over BT. Great for meetings.
All without a wire. Not one is needed for communicating.
BT is currently languishing because Windows doesn't really support it. Linux has okay support (still needs some help) but Macs and embedded devices are doing pretty good with it.
I use my bluetooth enabled phone to synch my address books. It is so much easier typing contact info on a real keyboard and then moving it to the phone. I also use my phone as a modem. I can establish a wireless connection between my GPRS/Bluetooh enabled phone and my Powerbook and surf the internet. Not at any blazing speeds (yet) but as long as I can get a GPRS signal I have an internet connection at my disposal.
The CDMA providers/phone manufactures are just getting a clue about Bluetooth. In the US, Verizon should be selling a Bluetooth Motorola phone. Sprint has sold a Bluetooth Sony Ericsson phone (with lots of BT bugs), and Nokia has announced a CDMA flip-phone with bluetooth...
Doh!
Agreed. I love my bluetooth phone.
I love my bluetooth headset. My phone can be in my armrest in the car, and I can dial and answer by the press of a button -- with no wires.
Or if I'm on a conference call and need others to hear, I can simply make the connection to my laptop and use its microphone and speakers for my phone.
Or all of the above in the parent post.
To my knowledge, the word "promoter" means someone in the second line of development. Either someone funding, or advertising it.
For example, a promoter of art is usually some rich guy, not necessarily the poor chap, who actually paints the pictures.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications was established in 2001 by telecommunications leader Ericsson and consumer electronics powerhouse Sony Corporation. The company is equally owned by Ericsson and Sony.
:wq!
Yes, they are. Not certain of the standard though, so I don't know how difficult it is to brute force.
Interface depends on device, but normally you browse for them - a list is presented, and each device is named. Of course, you have to rely on the user having set the name to something more useful than "Nokia 3650" so you can identify which Nokia 3650...
Yes, you can specify that devices need to a passkey to pair with each other. The neighbours don't get the key.
Yes - you put your device in non-discoverable mode (similar to not broadcasting the SSID of a wireless network)
Or, indeed, a mouse as I had to set up for this machine. The answer is that the passkey is fixed on such devices, but they're also tied in with a hardware id (analogous to a MAC address). Thus another, similar headset with the same passkey still wouldn't successfully pair with your device - different hardware id
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ian
You can already do that. Get an iMac with a Bluetooth module in it and buy the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. To connect your speakers and printer, get an AirPort Express. The AirPort Express also doubles (or would that be "triples") as an 802.11 basestation so you don't need a network cable either.
Shades of Grayden
If you notice those are developed by SonyEricsson. That is a different company (although AFAIK completely owned by Ericsson and Sony) and the people working at Ericsson have very little (or rather nothing) to do with people working at SE.
Eg, Ericsson make mobile hardware platforms, the stuff that is inside a mobile phone, and sell it to different phone companies. They then make a phone around that (and add stuff). SonyEricsson is one of those companies.
Ericsson also make and sell Bluetooth systems for integration into Bluetooth products. Other companies that does this are Widcomm and CSR. (CSR being the biggest IIRC.)
It is SonyEricsson that make the car and stuff. I recon they intend to keep on doing that.
And since Sony Ericcson is one of the lesser phone makers in terms of units sold, I think the technology will be fine.
Another big step in making sure BT is here to stay is to ensure that home PC's come with adapters by default. Apple has been doing this with PowerBooks for over a year now, and that has helped the technology grow.
Vonal Declosion
Ericsson is primarily a telecom network infrastructure company. They make, for example, the base stations for wireless networks. They used to make handsets but haven't for a long time. It's not part of their core business.
They long ago entered into a 50/50 joint venture with Sony, called SonyEricsson, to make handsets -- what with Sony being a consumer electronics giant and all.
Madness takes its toll. Exact change please.
"Promoter" is a membership level (the highest one, Ericsson did came up with the technology after all) of the Bluetooth SIG, and this seems to be the context of the quote. Also notice that it says "chip" customers. The 2nd article mentioned Ericsson will still do software development.
Ericsson, and note that while Ericsson does own half of SonyEricsson it does not itself make phones anymore, were a big initiative-taker in the Bluetooth standard, which is why the division was kicking around for so long after the company really lost all reason to deal with Bluetooth itself. This is a huge non-event. It will affect Bluetooth in no way.
Not really. The speed difference is humoungous between the three. Firewire 800 trounces all, but is expensive and not omnipresent. USB 2.0 is pretty fast with its 480 MBit/sec (though FW 400 can be faster due to a better implementation) and is found in almost any (host) device. Bluetooth, with 721 Kbit/sec does not even come in close. Even with 2.1 Mbit/sec it would be a dog compared with the other too.
To top things off, FW 800 can have multiple hosts, while USB and Bluetooth are Master/Slave configurations, with the limits thereof. My BT phone can talk to other BT phones though, so it seems that they can both be master and slave at the same time, making the bluetooth spec pretty usefull in that respect.
In other words, they are quite complementary, though Firewire might only be left in specialized products in the time to come. Note that USB to Serial/Parallel convertors can be found almost anywhere. And bugger IrDA.