MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary

An anonymous reader writes "How can people who parody people sue people who parody them? Mr. Sinus is being sued by Best Brains Inc. the owners of the rights to Mystery Science Theatre 3000 because they are using a name/format that is too similar to their own. Here is the story." Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.

Comments

Um, because.

[MoxCamel]

How can people who parody people sue people who parody them?

That's an easy one. Because the people who are being sued are not parodying them. They're blatantly using the MST3k formula. At one point they even called the show "Mister Sinus Theater 3000." They also tried to license rights to MST3k. They knew what they were doing. Duh.

Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?

Re:Um, because.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, dumbass, instead no one can:
1) Go ask to be licensed by some guys to do the same thing they were doing *and* doing it in the same way *and* use almost the exact same way
2) get turned down
3) go ahead and do it anyway and just hope no one will notice.

IF you were to *read* the (brief!) article, you would note the plantiffs just want the Mister Sinus guys to not use the Mister Sinus 3000 style name. It doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

People can still make fun of movies all they want--just don't call yourself MST3K without permission. (Unless, perhaps if you really *are* parodying them... which is not what the Mister Sinus guys are doing (apparently... although perhaps they'll claim different in court, if it gets to court).)

Yes. I *am* an anonymous coward.

Re:Um, because.

[ePhil_One]

Seems to me it's the name AND format Best Brains is complaining about-

To paraphrase from the article:

"All we want is for them to stop using our name"

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure if they don't defend their trademark, they lose it. And if they license to this group they'll be diluting the brand, since they can't guarantee the quality of humor, there's no mad scientists, no sketches, etc. In other words, it's not MST3k, it's MST3k-like.

Re:Um, because.

[Mattcelt]

Did you even RTFA? The MST3K owners don't even want them to stop doing the show - they just want them to use a different name, one that isn't so close to the original!

This isn't about copyright AT ALL - it's about trademark infringement, which is a wholly different beast!

Re:Um, because.

[Dun Malg]

BTW, didn't the original guy who did this show get screwed by rightsholders?

Apparently not. From the official MST3K site: (boldface added by me)

Q: Why did Joel leave MST3K?
A: Hodgson, who had created the series and labored on it ceaselessly for five years, asked off the show, pleading burnout. In the press release announcing his departure, Hodgson summed it up by saying:

"It's time for me to hang up my red jump suit and move behind the camera. Besides, there's an old show business adage I once heard Adam West say: 'Stay in the same costume and before you know it, you end up signing pictures at an R.V. show.' Maybe it was Clayton Moore, now that I think of it."

Q: When he left the show, didn't they say that Joel was going to continue working behind the scenes? But that never happened. Why?
A: Yes, the press release about Joel's departure did say that Joel would "remain a member of the MST3K writing team and...also direct several episodes." Best Brains staffers later said that was the intention, but, as they tell it, almost immediately Joel got an opportunity to work on some other projects in Los Angeles, and he plunged into work on them. He soon was working full-time there on these other projects, and found there was no time to return to Minneapolis. Eventually, Joel had only a financial stake in the series, but no longer offered creative input.

Q: I've heard rumors that Joel was fired and that there was bad blood between him and the rest of the cast and crew.
A: Joel could not be fired. He was the show's creator. No one could have made him leave if he hadn't wanted to go.
Although he covered as best he could during his time on the show, those that know him well say Joel is a shy person who was very uncomfortable in front of the camera, and was even more uncomfortable with his growing fame. Joel also reportedly prefers creating concepts to the day-to-day work of maintaining them. Once a project is up and running, those close to him say, he likes to move on to a new creation. "I want to become a behind-the-camera guy," Joel explained when he left. "I want to get on to the NEXT weird show. I want to bean idea man."
Jim Mallon, however, resisted Joel's attempts to step away from the series, and felt it was Joel's responsibility, as host, to devote himself to the MST3K franchise. Ultimately the two parted ways. In retrospect, we think all sides now realize it was a healthy change for the series, and all the former cast members are on good terms with one another. That was certainly apparent during Joel's 1998 visit to the BBI studios to shoot his appearances in episode 1001- SOULTAKER. The authors of this FAQ were present at the taping, and Joel and the current cast got along comfortably and there was no tension at all during the taping.

Speaking As a Local

[the darn]

These guys are the best...I've seen them abuse Masters of the Universe, Dirty Dancing, and Top Gun. The Xmas Clip Show is supposed to be INSANE. I always have wondered how they manage to get away with the name in this litigious age, though. It seems not even comedy is safe from stupidity.

An Austin resident speaking here...

[rarose]

Mr. Sinus is done at 9pm to midnight on Friday and Satuday nights... in the Club district... in a drafthouse.

Ain't nobody taking their kids there by accident.

Re:live performances are different

[tgd]

Want to bet?

You absolutely have to pay royalties/licensing to ASCAP or other organization managing the licensing for the music in question to perform that music legally.

Most professional bands do. Schlocky local bands don't, but they are breaking the law as much as anyone is stealing music online.

Re:Not exactly...

[Jason One]

I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right.

Best Brains is not a "big corporation." Ever since MST3K was cancelled, Best Brains basically just sells merchandise and licenses the occasional episode to Rhino for VHS/DVD release. As far as I know, they currently consist of about three people, including Jim Mallon (president of the company, formerly a producer for the show and the original voice of Gypsy).

This is hardly a case of a huge behemoth looking to crush the little guy.

Interesting

[antifoidulus]

that they are suing over this, but have given their blessings to The Digital Archive Project which encodes and shares the shows that were not released commerically on DVD.
I remember a quote from Kevin Murphy(one of the few founding members of the show to stay with it the whole time) "Ideas are free my friend"

Re:that's just wrong

[ewhac]

All but about ten of the episodes are in public domain now.

The term "public domain" has a very specific legal meaning. MST3K episodes are definitely not public domain. Although it may be strongly inferred that Best Brains doesn't mind unsanctioned copying (the phrase, "Keep circulating the tapes," appears prominently in the end credits of many shows), the shows themselves do not enjoy public domain status.

Some of the shows are available commercially on DVD. That should be the first place MST3K fans look for episodes.

Schwab

Wow, what a backlash

[PhracturedBlue]

Seeing as how Mr. Sinus is local to Austin, most people here will never have seen it. However, the comments here are relaly harsh. Did they rip off the concept? Yes. Did they rip off the name? Yes. But to claim that MST3K should have exclusive rights to poking fun at a movie is absurd. These guys pay hommage to MST3K in their intro, the show is somewhat interactive, has a decent comedy routine in the middle, and is certainly original (they do lots of movies the MST3K guys would never touch) While I lived in Austin, I saw every Mr. Sinus show, and they are generally hillarious (Red Dawn was one of my personal favorites, the Village People Special was probably the worst of the bunch). They started doing the show after MST3K was pulled from the air. The show is mostly for adults, as there is almost always adult humor and language (The Christmas Specials bring this to an extreme). They are a comedy troupe doing original work in a stylistic format. And it is pretty damn funny.

Re:live performances are different

[gilroy]

You know what I really love on slashdot? When someone posts a link to "prove" their point, and end up pointing out how wrong they are. From the linked FAQ:

I know that I need permission for live performances

Later in the same FAQ

2. How much will it cost to obtain an ASCAP license to perform music?

The annual rate depends on the type of business. Generally, rates are based on the manner in which music is performed (live, recorded or audio only or audio/visual) and the size of the establishment or potential audience for the music. For example, rates for restaurants, nightclubs, bars and similar establishments depend on whether the music is live or recorded, whether it's audio only or audio visual, the seating capacity of the bar or restaurant, the number of nights per week music is offered, the number of musicians, whether admission is charged and several other factors. ...
Concert rates are based on the ticket revenue and seating capacity of the facility.

Oh, I'd say it's pretty clear that even for live music, they expect their cut.

Re:"deceptively similar"???

[rjstanford]

I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic.

Their name may be parodic. Their act (I live in Austin) is damn near identical. If it was a true parody, they would be doing a send-up of people who made fun of movies. They're not. They're making fun of movices themselves, just like the MST3K people do. That's the difference.

Look at it this way. Creating a mock product called Queen-ex that proported to be a way to remove makeup from people in drag with amusing side effects like automatically applying facial hair? That's a parody. Creating a product called Queenex that's a facial tissue? That's trademark infringement, plain and simple.

Besides, say out loud, "I'm going to go and see the Mr. Sinus Theatre guys as they make fun of Top Gun." If someone heard you say that, and wasn't a regular Alamo Drafthouse attendee, they'd think that you were talking about MST3K. Worse, what about, "I went to see the Mr. Sinus Theatre people do Top Gun, and it sucked balls." Same problem, but now with a negative connetation that's not Best Brains' fault. That's what the Best Brains folks don't want happening.

For the record, the Mr. Sinus sendup of Top Gun rocks. It was just an example.