California AG Says He'll Sue Diebold

Just hope he doesn't have the case in Florida... by jmcmunn · 2004-09-07 12:41 · Score: 5, Funny

Or the jury will have to count their votes ten times.

From TFA... by nuclear305 · 2004-09-07 12:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

"Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California."

From the sounds of it, the person(s) involved with authorizing the installation gave in to Diebold's hype without bothering to give system a thourough inspection/review prior to making the decision. In addition to suing Diebold, maybe the AG should be looking for some heads to chop for making a bad situation[company pushing false claims] even worse[installation and failure of product]?

Re:And then what? by nharmon · 2004-09-07 12:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

Actually, it would be fitting for Diebold to refuse to sell to California.

This would be similiar to when governments began sueing Ford Motor company because their Crown Victoria police cars would explode after being hit in the rear by vehicles traveling at highway speeds. When the state filed charges, Ford stopped selling them cars.

So, this begs the question,...is California still buying diebold machines? Because if they are, then this lawsuit is nothing about ensuring voting integrity.

Recoup some of our money by tonydiesel · 2004-09-07 12:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Good. With California (still) facing rather sizable budget deficits and having paid Diebold so much money to begin with, this seems like a good step. I'm worried about the 2004 election in our state, we don't have enough machines, volunteers or money to solve the problems. Since my taxes went toward paying for those machines in the first place, I'd be happy to see the state get some of my money back so it can put it towards the stuff it really needs.

Too bad about the criminal case though, it may not be fair, but Diebold sure seem like a bunch of crooks to me!

Upset? by buckhead_buddy · 2004-09-07 12:47 · Score: 5, Informative

Well, the President of Diebold did claim in 2003 that his company was

committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.

I suppose the California officials are upset that Diebold didn't include their state in the obvious corruptions of an opaque and unmonitorable voting system.

Sued "Out the Ying-Yang" by Performer+Guy · 2004-09-07 12:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is going to be entertaining. The developer memo that Diebold should "Charge them Out the Ying-Yang" for paper copies because it was a new feature will surely come back to haunt the company. Such a disgusting attempt to exploit the customer over product deficiencies will not sit well with a jury.

I think the damages in this case may be "Out the Ying-Yang". That's a phrase that really grows on you when the shoe is on the other foot. Come on say it with me Diebold, "Out the Ying-Yang".

Backdoor by bluelarva · 2004-09-07 12:54 · Score: 5, Informative

You might be also interested to know that their system has a HUGE security hole (backdoor).

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/?q=node/view/78

Re:Is this the right way to go about it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-07 12:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

If Diebold were not an appropriately qualified organisation, California state would have determined that in testing trials and switched to another provider. They aren't the only organisation to provide this civic service.

You're assuming that there is a company with a good voting machine package available and the ability to ramp up production quickly. From what I've read, the only reason most states are even looking at these machines are because they're being forced to do so by a stupid, reactionary federal law inspired by the 2000 FL problems. Here in Washington state, our government has been aggressively attacking the voting machine manufacturers because none of them make a good product but we have to buy at least one electronic voting machine per county by either 2006 or 2008 (I forget) or break federal law.

This is a clear case of reactionary legislation mandating solutions worse than the problems.

And now for the finger-pointing! by Brian_Warner · 2004-09-07 12:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

I was wondering when the blamestorming was going to finally hit the Diebold fiasco. At what stage will people realise that with something as important as a voting machine, independently checking its secrity would be a good idea? Sure, Diebold is partially responsible, but so are the people that decided to pay for their flawed systems.

Re:Is this the right way to go about it? by AuMatar · 2004-09-07 13:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

Umm, what the fuck planet do you come from. Diebold claimed to have a product that fit the purposes of the state (a secure electronic voting system). They marketed the system as that. The system has been found NOT to be secure, and that they knew it wasn't secure. Claiming a produuct is fit for a purpse when you know it isn't is fraud. They shouldn't just be sued, there should be people in jail over this.

As for not dragging a corporation through the courts because youy have a beef with their practices- thats THE FUCKING PURPOSE OF A COURT SYSTEM. If you think someone is breaking the law, you bring them to court and see if the judge agrees. You think when someone lies about there product and commits fraud, we shouldn't sue their asses for our money back? We sure as hell should.

--
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?

Re:Is this the right way to go about it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-07 13:22 · Score: 5, Informative

> They don't deliberately insert loopholes into their electronic voting systems

How would you know? It's closed-source, trade-secret code.

> and it's only because of relentless pounding that a periodic vulnerability is found.

If you actually bother to read the sordid history of Diebold's voting products, you'll see they've been bug-ridden and insecure from the get-go. Yay for our MS Access-backed product!

"For a demonstration I suggest you fake it. Progam them both so they look the same, and then just do the upload fro [sic] the AV. That is what we did in the last AT/AV demo."

Read the memos at any number of sites, like http://www.hacksonville.org/diebold/

Re:Is this the right way to go about it? by K1-V116 · 2004-09-07 14:25 · Score: 5, Funny

Do you really want to think how many people would be killed if we a madman in the Whitehouse?

I know some might answer that question "Over a thousand and still counting...." ;) *innocent whistle*

--

Got mead?

What about conspiracy to commit election fraud? by nietzsche_freak · 2004-09-07 14:33 · Score: 5, Informative

California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said on Tuesday he would sue electronic voting machine maker Diebold Inc. on charges it defrauded the state with false claims about its products.

A good start, maybe, but what about the election fraud backdoor built into Diebold machines? From my link:

By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location [on the vote tabulation machine], a second set of votes is created. This set of votes can be changed, so that it no longer matches the correct votes. The voting system will then read the totals from the bogus vote set.

Now I (who ANAL) would call building such a backdoor into a voting machine conspiracy to commit election fraud, which is, by the way, a felony in California.

Why isn't the attorney general taking them to court over that?

Re:Is this the right way to go about it? by JimMarch(equalccw) · 2004-09-07 16:07 · Score: 5, Informative

The problem with this "blaming of the victims" (California and it's "customer counties") is that they weren't allowed to see the source code for the product!

Only the Federally approved "Independent Testing Authorities" (ITAs) are allowed to see voting product source code. In the case of Diebold, this was Wyle Labs and Ciber Inc. (formerly "Metamor"), both in Huntsville Alabama and often relying on the same pool of employees. These agencies are approved for this "certification" process by the Federal Elections Commission.

These two acted as the "Arthur Andersons" to Diebold's "Enron".

We know that in at least two cases Diebold specifically decieved the testing labs. We have Diebold's internal memos in which managers instructed lower-level people to lie to the labs; in one case Ken Clark (Sr. Engineer and head of the tech support group) didn't think that the BS they were to pass off would fly, but the report came back from the underling that it did.

For detailed quotes of all this and technical analysis, see also my first two letters to the California Secretary of State, archived in the yellow table, right column:

http://www.equalccw.com/voteprar.html

Without the ability to even see source code, it's rather hard to blame anybody in California for this fiasco.

Diebold on the other hand had a contractual duty to provide software that obeys the Federal certification process sans fraud AND California's election laws (which require high-security products). They blew off both contractual elements, so this isn't "tort law", it's "contract law", a much more cast-in-stone (and legitimate) area of law.

Jim March / jmarch@prodigy.net

Re:Just hope he doesn't have the case in Florida.. by McNally · 2004-09-07 16:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

Except it's California. If Kerry doesn't take the state easily, that's a red flag to investigate

I know that the Bush v. Kerry battle is the main event on the political calendar this year but it's important for people to remember that we have three branches of government in this country, two of them elected, and it's just as important who controls the other two. (And that's just at the federal level! State and local races matter, too!)

Both federal legislative houses are fairly evenly divided and the Senate in particular is completely up for grabs. But a few closely contested House seats that get swung the wrong way while everyone's eye is on the big show could have a huge effect, too..

I don't believe the tinfoil hats are called for just yet, but please try to remember that there's more than one election taking place this fall.

Re:Download the election software - author's reply by JimMarch(equalccw) · 2004-09-07 18:27 · Score: 5, Informative

As the author, I can tell you that's a good page and the links to actual code still work.

The information therein should be supplemented with this later data:

http://www.equalccw.com/deandemo.html

That's a "walkthrough" of the "hack demo" Bev Harris did with Howard Dean on CNBC a bit over a month ago. Complete with screenshots. It can be replicated with pieces downloaded from the "Dieboldtestnotes" page.

Putting the actual code and sample data online REALLY pissed Diebold off something fierce; they filed a cease'n'desist notice against my ISP.

Which did NOT succeed in taking my site down; on the contrary, mine is the only site to have completely survived a Diebold C&D with no downtime.

To see how I pulled that trick off:

http://www.equalccw.com/liebold.html

My main "Diebold page" is at:

http://www.equalccw.com/voteprar.html - the "Dean Demo" page will be linked from there soon (prolly tomorrow).

Jim March

Re:4 more years of Dubya guaranteed? by JimMarch(equalccw) · 2004-09-07 19:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

It's a weeee bit more complicated than that.

OK.

Everybody is looking at how Diebold "Corporate" in Canton OH (the parent company) is riddled with Bush/GOP links. And that's true.

But it's NOT true of Global Election Systems, the Canadian company that Diebold bought in 2002 and renamed "Diebold Election Systems" (still based in Vancouver BC to this day). Diebold corp of Ohio had been investing slightly before buying them outright but the investments do NOT go all the way back to Oct. of 2000.

Late Oct. 2000, GEMS version 1.17.5 was released. Per Bev Harris, this was the earliest version she could find that had the "double set of books" hack in it apparantly designed for election fraud. See also:

http://www.equalccw.com/deandemo.html ...for a more complete demo.

Early Oct. of 2000, Global hired a new head programmer for GEMS: Jeffrey Dean.

During the mid to late '80s, Dean embezzled more than $400,000 from a Seattle law firm he was doing computer consulting for. Dean was convicted in the early '90s of 23 counts of computer-aided accounting fraud in what the court called a "sophisticated scheme".

How did he end up hooked up with Global?

He shared a jail cell with another of the founders during the '90s.

Upshot: Global appears to have been run by a genuine bunch of crooks. *Not* political crooks, just plain ol' crooks. Diebold corporate didn't do enough background checks at the time of the buyout and I doubt they understood what sort of pirates they'd swallowed.

I can't be sure of course, 'cuz maybe the Canton boys DID know what they were getting involved in. But if they didn't, then the whole "Bush/GOP connection thing" that the Diebold Corporate people in Ohio are now famous for was a deeply unfortunate coincidence and God only *knows* what's going to happen in November!

Keeerist.

Think this is unlikely?

The big MONEY in election fraud involves rigging *local* elections, esp. building projects, construction bonds and the like. And people don't pay near the attention to that like they do national races.

I suspect that's what Global was really after. And I suspect keeping a secret all the way up to the Bush White House would be...unmanagable and dangerous as hell.

Am I certain Bush is "clean" (of this, at any rate)? Hell no. I *do* know that a heck of a lot of Democrats in various places have pushed for Diebold (starting with Georgia) and I know that county election officials can use the "cheats" Diebold built in very damned easily. Guys, I've personally seen MS-Access loaded onto GEMS boxes within counties - Fresno County's elections staff let me peek at their systems some months back (but the MS-Access was an older version (97) not compatible with the more recent GEMS databases so any ill with it happened some time ago, not recent).

Anyways. I don't want to end up betting on whether or not Diebold will "win out" in "hacking contests" with county elections officials :(. This crap has to go regardless.

Jim March

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