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Intel says Internet needs to change

Nurgled writes "At a recent Intel conference, CTO Pat Gelsinger said that something needs to be done to avoid the Internet buckling under the strain of new technologies and millions of new users. The BBC reports that Intel is attempting to layer a 'new Internet' over the existing network which can detect and counteract things like worm outbreaks and route traffic more intelligently during low and high traffic periods. Intel's prototype, PlanetLab, has 441 nodes but claims to be an open platform with documentation available on the site. What's in it for Intel, though?"

23 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. IPv6? by Cyberax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why not just boost adoption of IPv6?

    1. Re:IPv6? by tchuladdiass · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, ipv6 can help reduce the spread of worms. Right now, most worms will target random subnets, and all hosts within those subnets. Since the address range if ipv6 is so large it will make it that much harder for a worm to find a target host to infect. And the routers could then be programed to put in a logirithmic delay between connections everytime a host tries to contact a non-existant ip address (i.e., a few bad guesses will have no effect on the connection speed, but when it starts to get into the thousands, the router could slow the connection quite a bit, up to the point of stopping the worm spread).

    2. Re:IPv6? by donscarletti · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You probably don't want a logarithmic delay, logarithmic curves pretty much flatten off as they go along. You would probably want an exponential delay with a very low base (like 1.01 or so) that way it will start off with a very very small delay, but when the errors get big, the delays will get real big, real fast.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    3. Re:IPv6? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, logarithmic would be better. It would keep innocent guesses at fairly low delays. Only when there were a substantial number of wrong guesses would the router start introducing longer and longer delays. I think that would probably be sufficient.

      I mean, once you start delaying 1000ms per packet, there ain't gonna be much going on.

    4. Re:IPv6? by duguk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, you're probably right, with the phase in of IPv6, IPv4 won't go away overnight, and running both IPv4 and IPv6 at the same time hopefully will become more and more common.

      My point was that it was my understanding that if you were to run IPv6, then a router or other internet connection device could enable an internet user to connect to a client directly without transversing any subnets; as each machine is defined uniquely.

      To me, this would imply that a IPv6-enabled TCP/IP worm (like blaster was for IPv4, for example) could therefore connect to any IPv6 machine connected to the internet, unless it's firewalled.

      Windows + IPv6... could be an interesting prospect, and running each one uniquely on the 'net might just be a bad idea... for the moment.

      Personally, I'm still avoiding IPv6 as it offers no advantage at home to me at present. Could be interesting to mention at work, if there are any advantages?

      Dug

    5. Re:IPv6? by negative0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Implementing IPv6 does not mean that NAT will go away. We use it for security more than getting a few more ip addresses. NAT *can* be used to share a single ip over multiple machines, but mapping ports and allowing games to work and such is a pain. We use NAT as a 1 to 1 mapping, allowing the internal hosts to be shielded, and our internal topology to be hidden. Also, all the internal equipment (switches, routers, printers) are protected from external access and don't use an external ip. I don't see IPv6 making any difference in the way we do things.

  2. Applications... by leonmergen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is, a lot of the internet is dated from way back. You not only see it in 'the internet' and the main protocol being used (tcp/ip, which is, as far as I can see, the thing intel wants to change), but also how some applications talk to each other.

    For example, the SMTP protocol. It was designed WAY back, and only a few people had problems with not being able to verify the sender of an email, but that was being ignored. If someone would want to make such a protocol nowadays, it would contain a HELL lot more security measures. But if you want to change the protocol right now, you will need a pretty big front of important people in order to do that...

    My point is: Intel can say they want to make a new layer on top of the internet, which is all fine, but I think in order to really make a 'better' internet, you need to change the way application communicate with each other too...

    --
    - Leon Mergen
    http://www.solatis.com
  3. IPv6 by comwiz56 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why don't they just support and push the adoption of IPv6 and build it correctly from the ground up vs. changing whats already in place?

  4. "What's in it for Intel, though?" by reporter · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article starting this discussion asks, "What's in it for Intel, though?"

    Obvious is the answer: total domination of the next generation of technologies. Intel realizes that microprocessors, the market on which it built its business, is fast becoming a mature industry. Margins will drop as competition between AMD64 and Intel64 heat up. In search of new areas of grow, Intel is branching out into other areas: routers, WI-FI, etc.

    Intel does nothing out of generosity. More than 30% of the company is H-1B workers, and they retain the same ruthlessly competitive attitude that they had in their homelands (e.g. China, India, etc.)

    1. Re:"What's in it for Intel, though?" by RonnyJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From the article:

      'Mr Gelsinger said Intel wanted its hardware to be at the heart of this overlay system. "If the net grows to 100 billion devices connected to it, our goal is to have a piece of Intel inside in every one of those hundred billion," he said.'

  5. More Wintelmac Monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Monopolies always want to keep customers in a jail like Windows or , if they are less easy to control, a half-way house like OS/X. The internet is the new API and Bill Gates and his allies like Intel and Apple still have the upper hand. Regardess, platfrom agnostic technolgies like Mozilla represent a real threat. If richer applications find their way into browser land, then there's no rely on big software and hardware suppliers. If they can embrace, extend and destroy the internet protocols, then they can maintain their grip on user's wallets.

  6. Can't change the internet by KB1GHC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I like Intel's new concept. Alot of the internet is still running old hardware, you can't just change the internet, because it's impossible to change all the routers/etc at once but if they do it this way, they can just wait for the old internet to deteriorate.

    but does this article have anything to do with "Internet2"? i'm a little confused, because the description sounds like Internet2.

  7. Reminds me of when Microsoft... by gd23ka · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... built a GUI on DOS and called it Windows and that sucked. What the internet needs right now is more and more bandwidth both on the backbone networks, in the near future more bandwidth to individual workstations and maybe in five years from now IPV6. What the Internet does not need is censorship, TCPA/Palladium Digital Rights Management, Taxes, Microsoft and least of all Intel.

  8. Too lazy to switch by KB1GHC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because, not everyone is gonna switch to it, no matter how hard we beg, there are probably parts of the internet that haven't been updated in years. The thing to remember is people are lazy, if everything is working OK for them, they don't want to mess with it.

  9. What's in it for Intel? by Paralizer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    A buyout from the greedy Microsoft?

  10. Oh no... by X3J11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's probably been said already, in one way or another, but you'd think that Intel would have learned by now that taking something and adding just a little bit more to it usually results in more headaches than it's worth. What's the old saying? "Intel puts the backwards in backwards-compatability."

    They need to rebuild Internet. Make it better, faster, stronger. A 6 million dollar Internet!

  11. Keep It Simple, Intel by dre23 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Intel seems to think that networks need to get smarter. But networks need to get dumber (i.e. more simple). Systems need to be more like OpenBSD and less like [bloated] Linux or Windows. Applications need to be smaller and more precise.

    As everything becomes more and more embedded, we need to strip functionality that we don't use anymore and build applications to what we do, not what we did five (or ten, or twenty) years ago.

    Open-source has always strived to provide less bloated and overall better quality software. This comes from the Unix mentality. Intel does not yet understand this approach to computing. Intel provided a hardware architecture that rivaled IBM for monolithic and for lack of innovation and growth. This is mostly thanks to Microsoft and the users of Microsoft products.

    We in the open-source world and of the Unix generation have never had severe problems with viruses. We learned from the mistakes of the [original] Internet worm, and we haven't made those same mistakes again. We don't neet smart networks. We need streamlined networks, systems, and applications. Small progams with single purposes: to do one thing well.

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  12. Re:PR from the Investor Relations Dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What do you expect? Their stock is stuck in a rut and their products have become commoditized and China Inc., begins to play on their court.

    They need something that looks like a new huge market to try to stem the bleeding and loss in investor confidence.

    Its unlikely that the likes of Cisco and Juniper and Huwei are simply going to stand still anytime soon. Indeed Cisco just indicated that they will attempt to double their product offerings and rate of introduction of new products over the next 5 years. Juniper continues to move forward on the high end and Huwei is busy outpricing everyone worldwide on the low end and begining to ramp up into higher end products. The PC market is stalled as our president has successfully diverted much IT spending toward paying for higher energy and borrowing costs.

    Current investments in existing infrastructure including the steamroller of lobbyists behind the new internet 2 roll out are out of Intel's control. The core of their business model is now under attack by AMD and its Opteron, so announcements like this are critical for them to keep their heads above water.

    The real issue here is whether they can win any of the super-scret contracts to route and anlyze all internet traffic through the new NSA mainframe filters that are straining to keep up with the explosion of foreign and domestic internet use or whether they can win any of the contracts larger corporations are now issuing to keep track of everyones internet device and VOIP use on a 24/7 basis. Now that is where the real new growth in the market is not on selling to the few folks who still have a little money to spend on IT.

  13. Misleading article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article is very misleading. PlanetLab is primarily developed by Princeton University. The claim that the network was "funded by Intel" is a huge exaggeration: Intel has merely donated some of the original servers, which are now only a fraction of the total number of PlanetLab servers.

    You can read a more informative article about the background here:
    http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/03/q2/0624-planet lab.htm

    Furthermore, I'd like to point out that most of the work on the PlanetLab infrastructure is done by grad students at Princeton University, not by Intel.

  14. Umm, what if Intel's wrong? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I see the major flaw in Intel's idea right there where they say their network would be optimized for web services. Umm, what if web services aren't the big thing in a couple of years? IBM optimized SNA for the kinds of networks they knew were going to be built, but we don't see much SNA outside mainframe data centers. Corporate America doesn't have a very good track record of predicting how things will actually turn out. The Internet's strength is that it isn't optimized or designed for any one application, so while it may not be ideal for any one application it's at least usable for all of them. I'd be wary of changing that.

    As far as worm outbreaks, those don't require fundamental changes in the Internet. Stopping them requires the people responsible, the ordinary users, to get a clue. It doesn't even have to be much of a clue, just something on the level of "Running that red light at a busy intersection might be a bad idea." or "Putting my hand on the red-hot stove burner might hurt.". That's not asking that much. (NB: that wasn't in the nature of a question.)

  15. OT: firewalls in NICs by davidwr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a bit off-topic, but if you want to help quash viruses and the like, incorporate a basic ip4/ip6 firewall in NIC chipsets.

    Home-user PC manufacturers could set to to
    "block all unrequested inbound traffic and block all outbound traffic except:
    web, ftp, ssh, dns, bootp, tftp, dhcp" and maybe a few others, and provide a web interface where the 1st question after "please enter password" is "who is your email provider" to open up email ONLY to that location. Better yet, if the email provider isn't configured, beep during POST and give the user an opportunity to enter the NIC-bios-setup screen to set it.

    Of course, it would need to be at least as configurable as the firewalls built into most "home routers."

    The technology to do this is already there, and you can argue it's already been done given that a PC with a network-interface and a software firewall amounts to the same thing, and it's "obvious" that such a system can be burned to firmware. As such, any patents would be narrow and probably serve only to prevent cloning of a specific chipset.

    Anyone working on any of the http://www.aloha.com/~knowtree/links.html#BIOSopen -source BIOS projects is welcome to take these ideas and run with them. Granted, if it's in the system BIOS rather than the NIC BIOS it may only work with 1 NIC and as such, be only a proof of concept.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  16. Redundant by Glendale2x · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Hey, I know how to fix the internet!"
    "How?"
    "Build a new internet on top of the old one!"
    "Uhh..."

    The internet doesn't need fixing, it seems to run just fine. What it does need are less people running virus magnets and creating all kinds of problems. The lack of security is *not* the internet's fault; it already does what it needs to do. Security should not be the job of the transport. The job of the transport is to transport stuff, be it unencrypted data or the next generation of uber-encrypted VPN for those who want security. (This is my gripe with all these "wireless security" methods. Just build a damn base station with a built in VPN server and be done with it. But then they couldn't introduce "new and improved security" every other month and sell more stuff.)

    Got virus problems? It's not the internet's falut, nor its responsibility. The responsibility for that should be on the client side. I see attempted windows exploits coming to my network all the time: in my denied connections for my firewall. Packets dropped, no harm done. Same with my Apache logs. I scan my incoming and outgoing email for viruses, firewall everything, and make those in my family who use Windows aware of issues like don't click on random shit in your email you know nothing about. And guess what? Everything works smoothly and plays nice.

    The idea is nothing more than buzz to create some interest from people who have money in the hope that they'll part with their money. "Look what we can do, we can fix the internet! Now, we'll just need you to write a check for..." Besides, how long will it be before an internet tunneled over an internet gets overloaded? Then what? Tunnel another internet over the internet tunneled over the internet? If you want a new, faster, better network, you gotta build one from the ground up.

    --
    this is my sig
  17. Re:Stick to making computer chips by Angostura · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What has this to do with Intel "owning the Internet"? Nada. From what I can tell, this is Intel saying 'hey what you need is application layer analysis of every packet going across the net, at wirespeed in every core router.... what do you mean that will take a lot of processing power?", and then opening it's jacket to reveal ... what?.

    If I was going to make a guess, it would be that Intel was about to launch a new series of network processor, and this is the start of the sales pitch.