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RMS On How To Fight Software Patents

rimberg writes "Richard M. Stallman has a article on NewsForge talking about ways to fight software patents. It mentions the Public Patent Foundation (and why it's a good idea), but argues that fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria." (Newsforge, like Slashdot, is part of OSTG.)

17 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. It's very easy, actually. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Just make sure your legislator aren't bought by big croporations in the first place.

    This involves watching public affairs and politics closely, however, not an easy thing to do now that croporations have managed to make democracy look bad during the last 20-25 years...

    1. Re:It's very easy, actually. by flossie · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Just make sure your legislator aren't bought by big croporations in the first place.

      Even that isn't really enough. Many of the people who will be voting on this don't really understand the issue. Furthermore, the people who are pushing for software patents are being very deceptive. I have had correspondence with politicians who seem to honestly believe that they are voting for restrictions on software patentability when they are doing no such thing.

      The important thing is to educate the politicians. Make them understand why the issue is so important and make them understand what the legislation before them really says.

      A great battle was won when the European Parliament amended the Commission's directive, but there is still a lot more to do if we are to see final victory.

      Get writing!

    2. Re:It's very easy, actually. by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Canada (which is in America, by the way) is a -spit- monarchy.

      Parlimentary monarchy. A wee difference between the Queen being an all-powerful tyrant and a mere figurehead. For your information, we happen to have 4 major political parties and a few small ones. Minority governments are possible (we have one presently). Although people always complain, I take this system any night and day over the "one two-headed horse race" you got going over there since ... well ... basically day one. Which seemed to bother noone, only until recently, when it is became apparent that both of these entrenched choices are getting desperately lame. USA was extremely fortunate for most of its history that this Democrat/Republican farce did not go bad much earlier.

  2. Geek Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    To make a part of the castle safe, you've got to do more than kill the monsters as they appear -- you have to wipe out the generator that produces them.

    But you'd get a lot more experience points if you leave the generator running and ambush the monsters one-by-one as they emerge.

    And this Stallman guy thinks he's a geek. Sheesh!

  3. Patent Generators by yintercept · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fact that the patent generation is separate from invention and discovery is one of the main things that will destroy the machine. Personally, I think the solution to the patent process is not to stage a revolution against property rights but to continue to drive the issue that the system for issuing titles for intellectual property is out of kilter.

    Fighting and pointing out the absurdities of patent abuse are a very good first step.

    BTW, I suspect the typical car has more than 300 patents involved in its creation and manufacture. However, the shear number of patents developers face is a good method to show the problems faced by small businesses...as it is next to impossible to design any idea without touching on a patent of some sort.

  4. Re:Software patents by Halo1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    are what happens when our legislators make laws about things they know nothing about
    Actually, in the US they are what happened because the legislators did not make any laws about them. Their introduction happened entirely through case law, i.e. court decisions.
    a for loop or some such stupid thing, ends up getting patented which sums up ranges of numbers.
    Pretty much all software patents are about summing up ranges of numbers. After all, all a computer can do is mathematics, and you can present any mathematical function as a transformation of one bunch of numbers to another bunch of numbers.

    Some guy even proved using lambda calculus that because of this property, several assumptions about the patent system are in contradiction with each other when applied to computer programs.

    --
    Donate free food here
  5. Ask the USPTO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There are no shortage of examiners who think patenting software is a bad idea. The problem is that examiners do not have the final say in what is or is not granted a patent.

    All patent attorneys know that they can take an application to the board of appeals (or higher) if they want to bother. The only reason they wouldn't is if the examiner builds an airtight case that convinces the attorney that it would be a waste of his time to try. The attorneys know that the people who sit on the board of appeals are patent law experts but not software experts.

    If you want to stop software patents, you need to lay off the examiners (they agree with half the stuff said on Slashdot and the other half isn't even close to accurate) and focus on the patent attorneys and the appeal process. Any examiner who has been at the USPTO has issued patents for ideas they believe they have rejected but the board doesn't agree that "simultaneous" means the same thing as "doing two things at once" or some garbage like that. So the patent gets issued and from a legal standpoint, it's a perfectly valid patent. The examiner hates to do it, but the examiner doesn't have a choice.

    If you want to fix software patents, focus on the attorneys and the appeal process. The examiners are just trying to do their job without being burnt out by the moronic arguments they deal with on a daily basis.

  6. Derailing the train by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is also important to take a two pronged defense/attack on software patents. Giving the analytical arguments against patents, educating developers, and trying to give businesses a real business case why patents neither protects them, nor helps them competitively is the first approach, and a very important one. The second approach is the quantative and qualitative approach giving real figures and projected outcomes. A scientific approach. Here in Aus we are trying to set up a patents watch, now that we are locked into US style patents legislation. This means that in a year, or two years, we have real data on the amounts of trivial patents being attempted, and can realistically speculate on the impact of suh patents if they had been granted. Plus we get the open source community working directly with the people who need help in filtering patents.

    A good eg of what is current in Australian patents:
    > Australian Application Number 2004205327
    > Title Programming interface for a computer platform

    Through this we can hopefully prove that patents should simply not apply to software methods. It makes no sense, stifles innovation, and is an anti-competitive too of the most scary dimensions :( We can't convince them just with argument, we need to give them proof they can't argue against.

  7. Re:I agree with the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Also seriously insightful.

    RMS wrote (or had EM write) the GPL at a time that I and many other techies thought it was just a bunch of lawyering interfering with code fragments we were just posting on usenet with no copyright/license info. Now the GPL probably helped Linux beat BSD (since companies wouldn't have shared as much if the GPL didn't encourage them to), and may be important to protecting Linux survive.

    RMS wrote The Right To Read back in 1997 at a time when DRM was a relatively new technology, and I dismissed him as being paranoid again. Note this was before the DMCA (1998). Long after, when the e-book DRM issues started I remembered his article. Now in the day of the increasing RIAA and MPAA presence, his article is more scarry than ludicrous.

    If I were to read this article, I'm sure I'd think he's paranoid again; only to once again see 5 years later that he was actually just years ahead of me again.

  8. Re:Make more prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    At the very least, PUT A DATE ON YOUR STUFF. If you have webpages from college where you explain what you did for your senior project, make sure it is clearly dated. If you have a PDF of a research paper you wrote, freaking date the thing on the first page. If you maintain a FAQ for a ubiquitous software concept, keep a "updated on: " line in each section.

    You won't know it when you're cited in an examiner's rejection of a patent, but I promise you that many times an examiner finds a great piece of art on the internet that they would love to use except it isn't dated. There are mountains of people's research papers in PDF form that are on the internet but do not clearly display a date. If it doesn't have a date, it's useless to the examiner.

    This is the number one thing that "everybody" can do to help prevent questionable patents and it only takes a tiny bit of time.

  9. Re:Nothing to see here by flossie · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Nothing this brief note says is unique to software. Stallman might as well be arguing that any time you design a machine, you might infringe someone's mechanical patent without knowing.

    There is, however, a very great difference between designing and building a car and writing software. Designing a car requires some fairly expensive machinary and requires a lot of legal hoop-jumping to get it certified as safe. It is very expensive for companies to launch a new range of cars and the patent costs are relatively small in comparison to some of the more capital intensive parts of the project.

    With software, there is currently no such barrier to entry. Software can be, and is, written by hobbyists and very small companies as well as the software giants. The introduction of software patents would effectively remove the ability of some of the most innovative workers to compete.

  10. Re:Nothing to see here by belmolis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While RMS isn't very explicit about it in the Newsforge piece, one distinction between software patents and mechanical patents to which he alludes is that, arguably, a piece of software of any complexity is likely to involve many more potentially patentable components than a comparable mechanical device. To the extent this is true, it means that it is much more difficult to know when one is infringing a patent when writing software and that it would be much more difficult to set up a system for paying royalties.

    It's true that patents don't seem to have prevented the Industrial Revolution, but there may be some critical differences. One is that, it seems to me, patents didn't come to be widely used until a great many fundamentals were already in the public domain. That meant that everybody had a large base of ideas that they were free to work with. Where very basic ideas were patented, those patents did indeed pose a danger to progress. An example is the AT&T patent on the transistor, which the US government forced AT&T effectively to give up precisely because it was such a basic thing that it would have given AT&T a stranglehold on the semiconductor industry.

    The other factor is that for much of the Industrial Revolution there were generally fairly large costs and/or specialized skills needed to implement a new idea, and the means of communication were relatively slow. As a result, the duration of a patent was relatively short in comparison to the time needed for ideas to diffuse. In contrast, implementing a new idea in software costs very little and requires no skills beyond those of the average programmer, and communication is very fast. As a result, people can adopt a new idea very quickly. The time for ideas to diffuse is small in relationship to the duration of patent, so patents become a bottleneck.

    If this latter idea is correct, it means that the problems with software patents should arise in other areas in which costs of adoption are low and communication rapid. I wonder if genetic technology is not coming to be similar to software in this respect.

  11. I agree with the article-Deep Root. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes it's insightful to say that RMS is smart. It would be even more insightful to ask ourselves "Why do we treat him the way we do?" then.

    1. Re:I agree with the article-Deep Root. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
      It would be even more insightful to ask ourselves "Why do we treat him the way we do?" then.

      I think your parent post answered that.

      We treat him as a paranoid nutcase because he sees these trends in intellectual property law about 3-5 years before they affect us users of the system. Since we don't have the same context, we don't understand what he's saying.

      For example, he probably wrote The Right to Read back when the DMCA was being drafted; and he probably had some exposure to the debates that were part of its drafting. We, on the other hand, didn't know anything about the DMCA when we first read the article. Without this context it sounded quite paranoid. Only after the DMCA passed as law did the popular media (/.) notice the law, and only after that point did RMS's article make sense.

  12. Counterattacking the patent system? by Richard_J_N · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is it possible to use the patent system against itself, in the same way that the GPL counteracts the principle of copyright using copyright law itself?

    For example, a public foundation dedicated to holding patents in the public interest. Anyone with an idea could submit it to them; they would then obtain a patent on it, and license it freely to the public, with the exception of companies who use their patent portfolios offensively.

    Also, as an attack against software patents, would it be possible for a free developer to patent their own algorithms/widgets etc, and license it *only* for use in GPL'd software?

    Is the above legally possible? There's an obvious problem in that most FOSS developers have neither the time nor the expertise, nor the money to apply for patents, but if an organisation could be formed to do that part, I have no doubt that the intellectual citizens of the world can out-invent the corporations obtaining patents.

    [I am personally convinced that patents per se are a very bad thing, in any field of endeavour. They run contrary to the spirit of scientific endeavour, and they create a "tragedy of the commons" on a global scale. They also lead to monopolies. Pragamatically, one might make a special exemption for pharmaceutical patents, on the grounds of the huge investment required up front, but even then, such patents should be unenforceable in the 3rd world on grounds of humanitarian necessity.]

  13. Re:Nothing to see here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The patent system didn't cause the collapse of the entire Industrial Revolution due to patent infringement

    But it may have concentrated power into the hands of very few and slowed it down, and changed its direction to favour the interests of the establishment of the time.

    As a mechanical engineer, I detest all patents, not just software ones. You wouldn't _believe_ the stuff engineers aren't allowed to do because of patents, particularly sealed patents (patents that have been indefinitely extended and simultaneously removed in whole or in part from public records for reasons of "national security" - (i.e. corporate cronies requested it) This is intensely irritating - the patent still applies, so you can still be stopped from creating whatever it is you have rediscovered, but unlike with an ordinary patent, you don't know when/if it'll expire (typically when a citizen in another country independently reinvents it and _doesn't_ also keep it secret), and because there's little public record, people think you're being paranoid if you try to fight it.)

  14. We must fight them.. otherwise it will come true! by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Right to read

    This article appeared in the February 1997 issue of Communications of the ACM (Volume 40, Number 2).

    (from "The Road To Tycho", a collection of articles about the antecedents of the Lunarian Revolution, published in Luna City in 2096)

    For Dan Halbert, the road to Tycho began in college--when Lissa Lenz asked to borrow his computer. Hers had broken down, and unless she could borrow another, she would fail her midterm project. There was no one she dared ask, except Dan.

    This put Dan in a dilemma. He had to help her--but if he lent her his computer, she might read his books. Aside from the fact that you could go to prison for many years for letting someone else read your books, the very idea shocked him at first. Like everyone, he had been taught since elementary school that sharing books was nasty and wrong--something that only pirates would do.(poisoning of our school system, remember BSA?)

    And there wasn't much chance that the SPA--the Software Protection Authority--would fail to catch him. In his software class, Dan had learned that each book had a copyright monitor that reported when and where it was read, and by whom, to Central Licensing. (They used this information to catch reading pirates, but also to sell personal interest profiles to retailers.) The next time his computer was networked, Central Licensing would find out. He, as computer owner, would receive the harshest punishment--for not taking pains to prevent the crime. (DRM-OS! Any takers for palladium?)

    Of course, Lissa did not necessarily intend to read his books. She might want the computer only to write her midterm. But Dan knew she came from a middle-class family and could hardly afford the tuition, let alone her reading fees. Reading his books might be the only way she could graduate. He understood this situation; he himself had had to borrow to pay for all the research papers he read. (10% of those fees went to the researchers who wrote the papers; since Dan aimed for an academic career, he could hope that his own research papers, if frequently referenced, would bring in enough to repay this loan.)(Per use licensing! Bill Gates and the RIAA hoos probably masturbate to this every day!!!)

    Later on, Dan would learn there was a time when anyone could go to the library and read journal articles, and even books, without having to pay. There were independent scholars who read thousands of pages without government library grants. But in the 1990s, both commercial and nonprofit journal publishers had begun charging fees for access. By 2047, libraries offering free public access to scholarly literature were a dim memory.(The OTHER 1984)

    There were ways, of course, to get around the SPA and Central Licensing. They were themselves illegal. Dan had had a classmate in software, Frank Martucci, who had obtained an illicit debugging tool, and used it to skip over the copyright monitor code when reading books. But he had told too many friends about it, and one of them turned him in to the SPA for a reward (students deep in debt were easily tempted into betrayal). In 2047, Frank was in prison, not for pirate reading, but for possessing a debugger.(Well well.. INDUCE ACT?)

    Dan would later learn that there was a time when anyone could have debugging tools. There were even free debugging tools available on CD or downloadable over the net. But ordinary users started using them to bypass copyright monitors, and eventually a judge ruled that this had become their principal use in actual practice. This meant they were illegal; the debuggers' developers were sent to prison.(Up to 10 years for downloading a mp3 today under the PIRATE act, 'nuff said!)

    Programmers still needed debugging tools, of course, but debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers. The debugger Dan used in software class was kept behind a special firewall so that it could be used only for