Mushroom Cloud Reported Over North Korea

cbrocious writes "Yahoo! News is reporting a mushroom cloud over North Korea that occured on Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. 'The explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county blasted a crater big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.'"

Comments

Misleading

[b0lt]

This probably isn't a nuclear detonation, since they would be instantly detected, due to the huge flash created. Back in the 80s, we had satellite technology to detect nuclear explosions. Don't you think we have it now?

Little Known Fact

[Anonymous Coward]

All GPS satellites have detectors for a nuclear flash.

http://ares.redsword.com/GPS/old/sum_sat.htm

Online seismometers

[uberdave]

Are there any online seismometers that show this blast. A nuclear explosion would show one big spike, but large ordnance would show a series of smaller spikes.

Re:Online seismometers

[isolation]

Yes.....
Look at the data marked 3 days ago and compare it to the others. There is a spike.

http://www.physics.hmc.edu/research/geo/seismo.h tm l#days

CNN: "North Korea cloud 'not nuke blast'"

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the article.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/11/nk orea.blast/

Re:It's a good thing...

[Wyatt Earp]

To respond to myself

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oplan -5 027-1.htm

"The DPRK will seek force ratios of 3-5 to 1 in armor, 6-8 to 1 in artillery, and 4-6 to 1 in infantry forces to mount an attack. In attempting to breach a well-prepared defensive position, the DPRK may be expected to seek even larger ratios. This undoubtedly would be the case in attempting to break through DMZ defenses.

Combined-arms operations constitute the foundation of tactical battle in DPRK doctrine. Utilization of the forward conventional corps, reinforced by the mechanized and armor corps, to fight from the DMZ to Pusan is called the Strike Force concept. This concept embodies how the DPRK is expected to fight, especially south of Seoul or in defense of the DPRK."

"Without moving any of its more than 12,000 artillery pieces, "Pyongyang could sustain up to 500,000 rounds per hour against Combined Forces Command defenses and Seoul for several hours" Gen. Thomas A. Schwartz said in testimony in March 2001 before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Schwartz heads the United Nations and ROK-US Combined Forces Commands and US Forces Korea.

Towards the end of the Korean War fighting in 1953, the Chinese were able to fire approximately 100,000 rounds per day against US forces, and the number of rounds per day was increasing. A 100,000 round day would be a light day in a new war.

In 1993 and 1994, when the North Korean nuclear question emerged as an international issue, the North deployed large numbers of improved 170mm self-propelled guns and 240mm multiple rocket launchers to forward positions close to the DMZ. This was apparently meant to threaten South Korea's security while calling for nuclear negotiations with the US."

"A major air campaign against northern forces would be required before the counteroffensive could begin. A US Marine Expeditionary Force (in division strength) and the 82nd Air Assault Division, along with ROK divisions, would launch an overland offensive north toward Wonsan from the east coast. Soon thereafter, a combined US-ROK force would likely stage an amphibious landing near Wonsan, and advance to Pyongyang. Subsequently, a combined US-ROK force would execute a major counteroffensive from north of Seoul aimed at seizing Pyongyang. This would be achieved either by linking up with the force at Wonsan, or meeting it at Pyongyang."

Re:Well....From the TFA-

[gad_zuki!]

>"implemented cosmetic measures which allowed these crazy dictators to build up the weapons technology and arsenal's their unveiling now."

NK broke the reactor seals under Bush.

NK lauched long range missiles under Bush.

Rumors of NK's nuclear program growing in the past three years were under Bush of course.

Saddam disarmed under Bush I and Clinton. Saddam's own son-in-law told Newsweek they had no WMD anymore and the UN agreed that the "threat" Bush played up was a seriously distorting the facts. After the invasion, guess who was right?

Yeah, there is proliferation going on for two main reasons:

The Bush admin is focused on the middle east region and only cares about WMD as pro-war propaganda.

Other nations realized the lessons of the Iraq war weren't "with us or against us" it was "countries who really have WMD survive and don't get invaded." Works for Israel, it will work for everyone else.

No, the time is wrong

[El Puerco Loco]

The spike is at 16:10 UTC which would be 2:10 AM in Korea. The article says the explosion happened at 11:00 AM.

Re:No, the time is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Fine Check out this Sizeooetwhatever in Japan http://www.fnet.bosai.go.jp/freesia/waveform/prev. html Set for "Selected Window" IZH 1day plot Date: 2004/09/10 (UT) Something bighappened at 2 AM, Same as the HMC plot, but this one is a hell of alot bigger. AKA so it was closer to this one than the HMC one. North Korea? Perhaps.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Forest fire? Don't think so. - WRONG

[lombre]

This CNN story claims that a US official suggests that the mushroom cloud might be caused by a forest fire. A little bit of physics knowledge [layman/common-sense] makes this suggestion laughable

pictures speak a 1000 words

ex 1

ex 2

you can find 100's of recountings of forest fires that have mushroom clouds

Or you need to do some more reading.

[tgd]

The US tested many sub-kiloton devices.

I suggest as a minimum reading a bool called the Curve of Binding Energy... I'm pretty sure its got a chapter talking about Ted Taylor's efforts to build micro-yield devices.

Either way, your comment is completely wrong. Its far more complicated to created small yield devices, but not even remotely impossible. Its extremely unlikely that North Korea did that, though. While creating a nuclear detonation is simple given enough raw fissionable material (US and Russia both had no failed tests with primitive technology until we started pushing the envelope for smaller and smaller explosions), creating micro-yield explosions is, and the details is one of the closest kept nuclear secrets in the US.

since the 1950's

[evenprime]

In practical terms it's impossible to build a nuclear bomb that yields less than about 5 kilotons.

We've had smaller nukes than that since the late 1950's. Our AIM-26A and AIR-2A air to air missiles typically had 1.5 nuclear warheads. Some of these had the even smaller 0.25 KT warheads.

More Info:

http://www.milnet.com/aamtab.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm16.htm

http://www.hill.af.mil/museum/photos/coldwar/genie .htm