halligas writes "You may have noticed that last month McAfeeacquired security firm Foundstone. Not to be outdone, McAfee rival Symantec has gone out a bought up their very own bunch of hackers, @Stake."
IIRC, @Stake used to be the hacker group l0pht which claimed they were able to "shut down the internet with the tap of a button". It's interesting that Symantec has aquired this group, its a bit ironic.
@stake was never the l0pht guys. The l0pht was the heart of @stake's R&D department, but there are many more people involved with that company than just the 10 or so guys who make up what's left of the hacker group. The whole "shut down the internet" thing was also part of a testimony to Congress, when they were discussing the lack of appropriate security for critical networks and systems. It wasn't just a Usenet boast.:)
-- We who were living are now dying
With a little patience
Re:Outcomes ?
by
Martin+Blank
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Considering how dead @Stake has been since they changed their name (aside from a couple of minor tool releases [LC4 notwithstanding], some me-too advisories, and an attempt to launch a quarterly security magazine for WAY too much money), I don't think it will change anything other than a few bank accounts.
-- You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
I've got to disagree here. I think that the best thing a genuine hacker can do is to join into the industry as a position of influence. While a single individual has little influence preaching to the choir here on/. we [hacker community] do have power and influence once we enter the professional world. While we can not make single huge altruistic decisions that affect the world in a big way, we can steer our small portion of the world into the right direction, one little nudge at a time.
Think of it this way: The Exploratorium in San Francisco is a museum dedicated to science (recommended visit if you are ever in the city). They have an exhibit where a one ton concrete pillar is suspended by a chain from an arched support. A steel band girdles the pillar. All around the exhibit is a handrail so you can not touch the pillar directly. There are many small/weak refrigerator magnets on strings at the handrail. The "object" is to effect a movement on the pillar using these weak magnets. It takes time and patience, but I've successfully made the pillar nearly hit the handrail (it's designed so the pillar will not reach the rail to prevent the real possibility of injury).
We hackers in industry, @stake included, are those little magnets. Given time and direction we can achieve anything. For example I am nudging the division of my employer I work at to provide OSS drivers and code for the one product family I work with. The fear is that by OS'ing our drivers we'll allow competitors too much visibility into our product. My response was that we can release a binary and an OSS layer of source to interface that binary to the kernel. I've been gaining ground slowly, but I work in a very large company so change is slow. Eventually I hope to propagate this to other groups.
[/soapbox] -nB
-- whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Whether or not they can use the actual knowledge of the people who made up that company is yet to be seen.
It has just been in my experience that often when a larger company takes over a smaller one, often management egos and power interfere with creativity and the first ones to leave are the creative genius that made the company mean something in the first place.
In my career, I have seen this happen dozens of times. It happened at two places I personally worked. When the tie-guys took over, there was no way we could continue functioning at the level we once were, and the only amicable settlement was to give up and walk away.
Its gonna be interesting just to watch this one as "hacker" culture collides with "business marketing" culture.
-- "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Re:No.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0, Insightful
No. Don't do that (binary layer). NVIDIA only got away with it because they're who they are.
But Linus hates you and people like you. Your drivers will not get merged, because they are NOT open-source.
Open-source them, or publish open specs.
Your competitors already paid hackers to reverse-engineer your product anyway.
Re:Good and bad
by
Code+Dark
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
You seem to think that they are doing this with integrity in mind. Although I agree that @Stake is a good, integrity-filled organization (at the moment, anyway), but that doesn't necessarily have to change with Symantec taking them over.
Also, remember that they aren't doing this for fame, honor, anything; they're doing this for money.
Slashdot Mirror
Anyone else shedding a tear at what l0pht heavy industries has become?
they've found a way to legally make money hacking?
It's been a while...
I used to read HNN at school during lunch time.
The change in direction to it being simply @Stake was already a early sign of its new approach to bring in a more conservative audience.
IIRC, @Stake used to be the hacker group l0pht which claimed they were able to "shut down the internet with the tap of a button". It's interesting that Symantec has aquired this group, its a bit ironic.
Considering how dead @Stake has been since they changed their name (aside from a couple of minor tool releases [LC4 notwithstanding], some me-too advisories, and an attempt to launch a quarterly security magazine for WAY too much money), I don't think it will change anything other than a few bank accounts.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Sell-outs.
/. we [hacker community] do have power and influence once we enter the professional world. While we can not make single huge altruistic decisions that affect the world in a big way, we can steer our small portion of the world into the right direction, one little nudge at a time.
I've got to disagree here. I think that the best thing a genuine hacker can do is to join into the industry as a position of influence. While a single individual has little influence preaching to the choir here on
Think of it this way: The Exploratorium in San Francisco is a museum dedicated to science (recommended visit if you are ever in the city). They have an exhibit where a one ton concrete pillar is suspended by a chain from an arched support. A steel band girdles the pillar. All around the exhibit is a handrail so you can not touch the pillar directly. There are many small/weak refrigerator magnets on strings at the handrail. The "object" is to effect a movement on the pillar using these weak magnets. It takes time and patience, but I've successfully made the pillar nearly hit the handrail (it's designed so the pillar will not reach the rail to prevent the real possibility of injury).
We hackers in industry, @stake included, are those little magnets. Given time and direction we can achieve anything. For example I am nudging the division of my employer I work at to provide OSS drivers and code for the one product family I work with. The fear is that by OS'ing our drivers we'll allow competitors too much visibility into our product. My response was that we can release a binary and an OSS layer of source to interface that binary to the kernel. I've been gaining ground slowly, but I work in a very large company so change is slow. Eventually I hope to propagate this to other groups.
[/soapbox]
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Whether or not they can use the actual knowledge of the people who made up that company is yet to be seen.
It has just been in my experience that often when a larger company takes over a smaller one, often management egos and power interfere with creativity and the first ones to leave are the creative genius that made the company mean something in the first place.
In my career, I have seen this happen dozens of times. It happened at two places I personally worked. When the tie-guys took over, there was no way we could continue functioning at the level we once were, and the only amicable settlement was to give up and walk away.
Its gonna be interesting just to watch this one as "hacker" culture collides with "business marketing" culture.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
No. Don't do that (binary layer). NVIDIA only got away with it because they're who they are.
But Linus hates you and people like you. Your drivers will not get merged, because they are NOT open-source.
Open-source them, or publish open specs.
Your competitors already paid hackers to reverse-engineer your product anyway.
You seem to think that they are doing this with integrity in mind. Although I agree that @Stake is a good, integrity-filled organization (at the moment, anyway), but that doesn't necessarily have to change with Symantec taking them over. Also, remember that they aren't doing this for fame, honor, anything; they're doing this for money.
- Code Dark