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The OS Community Embraces IBM

Joel Dutt writes "IBM... 'the corporation known as Big Blue has seen its reputation in the global open-source community shift from suspect sugar daddy to knight in shining armor.' Newsweek has an interesting article in its latest issue, discussing the relationship between the open-source community and the corporate giant."

41 of 305 comments (clear)

  1. I swear I'm not trolling, but by justkarl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    hasn't IBM stood behind Linux for quite some time? They've always pushed hardware that is somewhat Linux specific.
    Not to mention, no dork I've ever met didn't like IBM. They make solid machines. Pretty good software. So what's the problem?

    1. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So what's the problem?

      There isn't a problem. It's more of an "odd couple" pairing sort of thing.

    2. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by ValiantSoul · · Score: 4, Funny

      "They make solid machines"

      Not to mention heavy as hell

    3. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by DrSkwid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      no dork I've ever met didn't like IBM

      You should try some of us history dorks.

      <quote

      IBM and the Holocaust is the stunning story of IBM's strategic alliance with Nazi Germany -- beginning in 1933 in the first weeks that Hitler came to power and continuing well into World War II. As the Third Reich embarked upon its plan of conquest and genocide, IBM and its subsidiaries helped create enabling technologies, step-by-step, from the identification and cataloging programs of the 1930s to the selections of the 1940s.

      </quote

      The book is a treatise on why we should be concerned with electronic privacy and data retention. You might trust your current government but who's going to be reading *your* census forms in 50 years.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    4. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by tonywong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As someone who has worked with and against Big Blue (note, not for), it appears that most of IBM's margins now come from offering services on top of their products, whereas in the past their profit came from hardware and products.

      This inversion means that IBM likes to vend their hardware and software in order to make a lot more money on the upsell of services in the guise of business integration.

      Now I know this can be perceived negatively, but Linux, from IBM's point of view, is a product that is offered for free, without any tier 1 service provider to make an upsell.

      Their existing marketing still relies on the adage that 'no one ever got fired for going with IBM.' And it's worked well against other Tier 1 vendors, let alone smaller shops.

      Now, they've got an open playing field by using free software, with free updates, and they get to profit from it for literally nothing.

      This is a bargain as even their in-house products require money to be invested for support and development, let alone production and packaging.

      The bottom line is as long as IBM can make $$$ from linux without any real competition they will stand behind Linux, and it looks like this situation will be a mutually beneficial one for a while.

    5. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by b17bmbr · · Score: 4, Informative

      the final solution was finalized in 1942 at the Wanssee conference. The man who devised the plan was Reinhardt Heydrich. He was at the time #3 in the Nazi party, a fanatical hitler supporter, a deputy reichsfuhrer, and in charge of bohmeia and moravia (sudetenland). He was later killed by czech resistance members who flew in from england. he was killed by a bomb on a corner in prague. hitler responded by razing the city of lidice (http://www.lidice-memorial.cz/index_uk.htm).

      as for pencil/paper accounting, yes, it can and was done. keep in mind german fanaticalness regarding order. it was possible also because most of the prisoners went into ghettos, then later, to a final camp. (sorry to be so objective and analytical). the records were kept at each place. the germans checked in and checked out everyone who came and went. it wasn't like they let them leave or anything. now, did the nazis use ibm adding machines and stuff. hell, at that time, who wasn't?

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    6. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by aelbric · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nor the Egyptians, Greeks, Mongols, Spaniards, English, French, Chinese, Russians (Stalin), etc.

      Computerization was never the prerequisite for effieciency. It facilitates it but, unfortunately, hatred and ignorance have no boundaries.

      --
      nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
    7. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by hugesmile · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Not to mention, no dork I've ever met didn't like IBM.

      I disagree. Way back in the early 80's when I was graduating from college, IBM was thought of by the "smart" tech crowd in VERY much the same way as Microsoft is thought of today. If there were a slashdot crowd in 1981, they would have bashed IBM left and right for monopolistic behaviors.

      The geeks were enthusiastic about Dec, HP, and later Sun.

      I remember my college interview with IBM. Our college had a bidding system to land the coveted job interviews with the campus recruiters. MANY Seniors bid ALL their points for the year to get an interview with IBM. (I wouldn't necessarily call these people the "smart" crowd.)

      I scooped up an interview slot for no bid-points when there was an interview candidate who didn't show. Even though I had deep-seated negative feelings toward Big Blue, I knew it could be a great job out of school. Toward the beginning of the interview, I asked the guy about the position he was interviewing for. "Oh, there's no position available. We just do these interviews for the P.R." I ended the interview, politely telling him what I thought of that! No sense in wasting my time. The 25 students that wasted all their interview bid points were furious when I walked out and told them!

      Of course, I got a "ding letter" a couple weeks later.

    8. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by peawee03 · · Score: 3, Informative

      In case you haven't really noticed, IBM's big thing (except for a small abbaration known as the PC *wink*) has never been PCs, but large-scale systems, like the zSeries today. And large server class systems have never been and will never be "point-and-click" easy. In addition, just about every large corporate buyer, likes support contracts. If something seriously borks, you can expect IBM to fix it ASAP. The closest analogy a support contract can be made to (for an organization with an already well-seasoned IT staff) is insurance, because when your company is loosing $10,000/hr on a borked computer, you better damn well make sure you have every resource available to keep downtime to a minimum.

      --
      I wish I could write clever and witty sigs.
    9. Re:I swear I'm not trolling, but by catwh0re · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yeah they're better now, but in the 80's they were notorious for going around bullying other companies with their massive patent portfolio, something which many suspect MS is planning.(With MS patenting sorting images by date for example.)

      Since then however IBM have found much better ways to stay in business, one of them is by being a good IT global citizen. Simply selling products in growing fields, rather than trying to use the american justice system to stamp out a new innovation & a new way of thinking.
      By using the american justice system to get what you want (rather than competing for it) will only foster the growth in countries outside of the USA, and ultimately put USA behind these other countries. (An example is RIAA vs P2P, imagine what would happen if the RIAA got their way.)

  2. IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    10. I've Been Moved
    9. Idiots Become Managers
    8. Idiots Buy More
    7. Impossible to Buy Machine
    6. Incredibly Big Machine
    5. Industry's Biggest Mistake
    4. International Brotherhood of Mercenaries
    3. It Boggles the Mind
    2. It's Better Manually
    1. Itty-Bitty Monopoly

  3. Fighting evil everyday... by chrispyman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well ofcourse they're well liked, I mean they fight off the evil SCOmonsters that try and terrorize the city everyday.

    1. Re:Fighting evil everyday... by PimpBot · · Score: 4, Funny

      City?!?!?! I thought there was only a cathedral and a bazaar!!!

      </joke>

  4. Not to be a troll by Stevyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But IBM is still a company. They may stand behind open source and believe in it's potential and power. However, they are still a company with shareholders and responsibilities. If something unforseeable happened in the near future and open source software didn't have the potential for them to make billions a year on it, wouldn't they adapt too?

    1. Re:Not to be a troll by The_Mystic_For_Real · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Open Source is not a panacea, requirement for life, or any sort of deity. Therefore, it seems foolish to treat it like one.

      Of course they are a company, with shareholders and the the desire to make a profit. So are Red Hat, VA Linux, and Mandrake.

      There is nothing wrong with a company supporting Linux, that's exactly what Linux needs to bring it to the attention of the general public. IBM has essentially been advertising Linux for a while now. They've put more money into Linux than pretty much anyone else has. This is what Linux has lacked: big money supporting Linux.

      --

      _____

      Thank you.

    2. Re:Not to be a troll by stevesliva · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Interestingly enough, this Newsweek article hints at a material impact to IBM's bottom line that I haven't heard mentioned elsewhere. IBM's support of Linux plus IT professionals' and CS students' love of Linux creates goodwill that translates into some tangible gain when the IBM, HP, Dell and Sun sales reps come calling.

      Everywhere else, the press hacks mention IBM's billions of dollars in Linux-related revenue, but they don't mention that an IT staffer told to buy Windoze servers from either HP or IBM might inexplicably favor IBM because they're a Groklaw reader.

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    3. Re:Not to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
      But that's very doubtful. These are the guys who HP's been the Microsoft mouthpiece against open source since that June 2002 memo. Any lip service they give Linux is merely a way of not offending people while their actiions speak on behalf of microsoft.
  5. It still seems so strange. by bersl2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IBM---the mega-corporation to end all technological mega-corporations---seeing ANY benefit in Linux?

    Then Sun, when they're not against us, is with us.

    Finally, Novell sees positives in what we do.

    We've all shown the belief that Free software can be profitable. But seeing it in action is something entirely weird and unusual, but in a very satisfying way.

  6. IBM has something to gain though. by mind21_98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They really have done some great things for the open-source community. Howerver, by being affilated with the open-source community, they ultimately get more buyers of their products. This helps erase the market share of its competitors. Just something to think about.

  7. The enemy of my enemy by jhylkema · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is my friend.

    Linux and IBM, strange bedfellows indeed. IBM is every bit the big, evil, monopolist corporation that RMS and the rest of the Linux zealots rail against. IIRC, IBM, too, is a "convicted monopolist" just as M$ is and Apple tried to be. The only difference is, IBM succeeded where Apple failed - they had the hardware *and* the software lock-in. What was the saying? Oh yeah, "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." Today, replace IBM with Microsoft. By the way, how many American jobs has IBM shipped to India or replaced with H1Bs under the pretext of a labor shortage? And how much of the same has IBM helped others do under the same pretext through their consultancy, IBM Global Services? But since they've chosen to embrace Linux because it's in their short-term self-interest to do so, all of their many sins are forgiven.

    Make no mistake about it, IBM doesn't give a ripshit about "the community" or anyone/thing else other than the Almighty Dollar. The only reason they're fighting SCO is because they're heavily invested in Linux as a way to compete with Microsoft. If IBM felt that it was in their short-term best interest to wipe Linux off of the face of the Earth, they would.

    1. Re:The enemy of my enemy by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Make no mistake about it, IBM doesn't give a ripshit about "the community" or anyone/thing else other than the Almighty Dollar.

      You're right, but you completely miss the point.

      Free software has never been about "it's free but you must pay your way by worshipping the software ideals and community", no matter how much some may with that to be true. Free software has been about "use it, but keep it free" (and sometimes, "share your changes" as well).

      IBM is using free software as it has always envisioned to be used. Commercial use is not merely tolerated, but has always been a GOAL. The free software ideals want corporations to rely (and play by the rules of) free software, instead of creating their own non-free solutions for people to become dependent of.

      IBM is playing by the rules - not by being forced or threatened, but in good faith to the ideals and rules of free software.

  8. Flashbacks by aelbric · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why do I half expect to hear one day soon:

    IBM: Linus, I am your father!
    (Queue Imperial March)

    --
    nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
  9. Sun Jealousy towards IBM by gmajor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am a frequent reader of Jonathan Schwartz' blog, and one of his constant themes/rants is that the open source community respects IBM more than it deserves.

    In my opinion, other companies (i.e. Sun) are jealous of IBM's unique position and would like nothing more than to ruin that relationship.

    IBM, while not entirely faultless, has taken a huge risk in tying some of its business and marketing campaigns to the success of Linux. Even while having AIX. I wish the same could be said for Sun. Glad to see it's paying of for IBM, in the form of profits and community goodwill.

    1. Re:Sun Jealousy towards IBM by Brian+Blessed · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think this could be a good thing; Schwartz' jealousy of IBM's reputation could bring out some competitiveness.

      The Open Source community will benefit greatly from two companies vying to outdo each other in a quest for our affections by seeing who can contribute the most.

      - Brian.

    2. Re:Sun Jealousy towards IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am a frequent reader of Jonathan Schwartz' blog, and one of his constant themes/rants is that the open source community respects IBM more than it deserves. ... In my opinion, other companies (i.e. Sun) are jealous of IBM's unique position and would like nothing more than to ruin that relationship.

      The funny thing is, this is exactly WHY the open source community respects IBM and not Sun. Rather than fixating on "how can I make Sun positive to the open source community" Schwartz is fixating on "how can I get the open source community to like Sun instead of IBM".

      Sun doesn't view the open source community as people, or equals, it views them as statistics-- it views "the goodwill of the open source community" as just another asset, something IBM has and Sun doesn't. They can recognize they have a problem in their relations with the open source community, but then they misunderstand it by viewing it as a PR problem. The reason Sun because Sun continues to think they can repair their relations with the OSS community just by talking and gestures, rather than actions...

  10. Show me the money by sql*kitten · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IBM, last time I checked, made something like 45% of its revenue from hardware and 35% from consulting. Software accounts for a paltry 15% (the rest they make from finance). IBM is not in the software business, really. They make AIX so they can sell RS/6000s. They make VisualAge so people can write desktop applications for DB/2 databases, and they make DB/2 so people will buy mainframes. The consulting part of IBM is fairly vendor-neutral; I've worked with them to implement BEA WebLogic on Solaris instead of WebSphere on AIX for example.

    Software is an overhead for IBM. It's a distraction from hardware and services. Open Source allows IBM to sell hardware and services without having to pay to develop the software to run on it and/or implement on behalf of customers. That's the reason, and the only reason, IBM is into Linux.

    1. Re:Show me the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And they make Lotus Notes to irritate people all around the globe.

  11. Who else to go to? by ShatteredDream · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sun: we build and get you to contribute to open source products to use as the foundation for our for-profit products and then let the "Evil Empire" get said open source project firmly in its sights. Sometimes we are going super hardcore for open source, othertimes we are terrified of it and attack it with wild-eyed zeal.

    HP: When we're not whoring to Microsoft, we'll be more than happy to sell Linux to our cutomsters, but then we'll go right back to our buddies in Redmond.

    Dell: We are such corporatist tools that if it is remotely risky we won't touch it with less than a 10 foot pole. We'll sell a few Linux boxes, but claim the way most families claim a gay cousin.

    Microsoft: I really hope no one has to explain this one to you.

    IBM: Linux lets us standardize and save money. We build on Linux a little, we save tons of money, thrash our competition and make tons of money. Invest over $1B today, and we make many times more than that. Not only that, but Linux is a great stick to beat Microsoft with.

    I wonder why IBM looks like such a good ally. Maybe it has to do with them seeing the growth of a robust Linux platform and community as the fastest way to them not only getting revenge, but being the preeminent IT company in the world.

    No company will actually side with OSS for altruistic reasons, but it isn't hard to guage motives. IBM's motives are the most sympathetic of all of the big IT companies to Linux. IBM sees guiding Linux into the big time as the best way to become a massive force unto itself. Most other companies like to ride the fence and only occassionally flirt with Linux which is the enemy of their ally, Microsoft.

    The problem with most OEMs IMO is that Microsoft is more than just a supplier to them. They don't have the business sense to see that dependence on Microsoft Windows means that they cannot act in their own interests if Microsoft makes the XBox2 essentially a real computer for John Q. Citizen. It makes them like a cheap fuck buddy, and when Microsoft is through with Dell, HP, etc they will be discarded as quickly.

    The only thing I personally wish that an OEM had the foresight to do, was for Apple to give a few million dollars to the OSI with a tacit purpose of working on the OSX port of open office and general open office improvement beyond that.

  12. IBM is in the service industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sure, they make hardware and sure, they sell software. However, they have legions of consultants that make money providing SERVICE to their clientele. Supporting software and tools that are both inexpensive/free and easily (freely?) maintained only helps their consulting business which is probably where their highest margins are. You have to sell LOTS of computers and peripherals to make the same profit you make by parking a dozen consultants at a customer location for 6 months.

    Cheers,

  13. Compared to HP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ... compared to those companies, IBM is wonderful in their respect for open source licenses.

    Since HP killed thier Open Source strategy thanks to signing "new patent cross license with Microsoft that protects HP in the sort term", they've been nothing but a mouthpiece for MSFT fud.

    Remember, HP are the guys who saw the SCO opportunity as a way of trying to scare people into paying HP more for "indemnification from SCO" than SCO was even asking for! And they had the gall to claim that this extortion fee was "support" of linux and accused IBM of not doing the same.

    IBM certainly won my respect, thanks to their respect of the GPL.

  14. Re:Fits IBM's plans nicely. by MonsterChicharo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My impression of IBM is that they would prefer not to be in the operating system business.

    Even more, it is my impression that IBM would also be out of the software market as well, and comoditize it instead. The most profitable part of a solution is in professional services.

  15. IBM is not your friend by consumer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked at a large publishing company where IBM was pitching a new e-commerce system. They succeeded in concvincing our gullible CTO to buys their whole package, including proprietary hardware and AIX to run on it. When I suggested that Linux on Intel systems would be a better choice for a relatively low-traffic web service like this, they immediately starting running down Linux. They had nothing good to say about open source software in general, implying that the apache server they bundle is somehow a different species from the one anyone can download. In short, they like Linux when they can make money off it, and will rip it to shreds if they think they can sell you something more expensive.

    1. Re:IBM is not your friend by Blastrogath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >In short, they like Linux when they can make money off it, and will rip it to shreds if they think they can sell you something more expensive.

      To be fair, you were talking to sales people. There are few sales people who don't have this kind of attitude.

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
  16. Typical major media take on linux by QCompson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Open-source geeks are devout in their belief that software should be free to all..."

    "...and what the open-source community sees as a Microsoft front company bent on destroying their free paradise."

    Once again, the linux community is portrayed as a bunch of geeks pinching pennies, not worried so much about free software but rather free (as in healthy beer) software.

  17. Kudos to IBM for vision by cpu_fusion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's not often that a large company or organization manages to read the writing on the wall and adjust a business model accordingly. Just look at the RIAA, MPAA, Microsoft, etc.

    IBM realized that the software industry would change the most from the era of the Internet, unlike hardware and consulting services. A company expecting to make its bread and butter from software will be in a constant rush to stay one step ahead of thousands, if not millions, of unpaid software developers who write software for no other purpose than to have it the way they want. The Internet made it possible for those legions of volunteers to congregate internationally, as well as publicize and distribute for free.

    If only other companies had the vision to look that far ahead and make the hard decisions necessary to evolve.

  18. IBM and OSS by pfriedma · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What many people have failed to notice is that IBM provides more to the OSS community than just a corporate image. For the most part, the OSS community little way of inforcing the GPL or for that matter has very little force of it's own (both of these need to change) to protect itself from larger companies (MSFT, SCO, etc). IBM (and it's legal team, money, etc) provide an incubational service to the OSS community by offering a bit of corporate [legal/monitary/etc] power while we build some of our own.

    --
    Mak'tal shree lok'tak mek'ta sa'tak Oz! - Daniel Jackson
  19. foil my head by scottking · · Score: 4, Insightful


    "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

    - Verbal, The Usual Suspects

    --
    scott king
  20. Rubicon of Open Source: IBM Supporting Linux by reporter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The key point in the history of open source is IBM embracing Linux. Without the support of IBM, most commercial companies simply saw Linux as interesting software with reliability approaching a toy. Regardless of whether this perception is true, once IBM supported Linux and shipped mainframes with it installed, commercial companies were willing to entertain the idea of running Linux in their datacenters. These companies have faith that even if any problem with Linux arise, then IBM would surely fix the problem within 24 hours. Even if Linux were initially unreliable, IBM would ensure that it has 6 sigma reliability. Such is the reputation and commitment of IBM.

    The rest is open-source history.

    Interestingly, IBM's embracing Linux is one of the factors eliminating Sun as a viable competitor in the market for highend servers. 6-sigma Linux, backed by an army of free programmers and advice-givers, versus closed proprietary Solaris is tantamount to a battle between a F-22 (stealth fighter) and a Mig 17. No contest.

  21. I beg to differ by intx13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    says free-software guru Eric Raymond. "Folks like me have an ingrained hatred for lawyers. But at that point hackers will lift IBM's lawyers on their shoulders."

    they tend to be anti-corporate types

    I would suggest that only a small number of the free software advocates are anti-corporation, anti-business, anti-everything-not-free. It may appear so when you look at Linux distros like Debian, who makes such a big deal out of the idea and purpose behind the software, but I believe that the average FLOSSer is just you're average joe. Well maybe not average...

    From looking at the comments posted on slashdot, it seems that most of us are reasonable people, able to understand the benefits of an open market. The only thing is that we believe that free software can be part of this market. From TFA, you'd think we're all living in communes!

    Therefore I don't find it that unbelievable that the OSS community would accept IBM as our knight. The only thing we object to is a company taking advantage of the freedoms that our software and the GPL provide. We don't hate the idea of a big company (after all, many of us get our paychecks from one!), we just don't like being abused by them.

    On a slightly different tact, I would also suggest that Novell has been a strong defender, perhaps taking bigger risks than IBM. Novell is in direct competition with Microsoft, and has been so for years! And more to the point, they still pull a profit! IBM has a different focus than Microsoft, but Novell is right in the line of fire. Despite that, Novell manages to completely embrace SUSE and Ximian and turn it into a corporate backed project with a real future. Now there's a hero!

    Either way, seeing the media begin to accept FLOSS as a viable business method is a good step. We've known it for years, and clearly some corporations (IBM, Novell) knew it as well. The only real hurdle left is the media and the public. When these are overcome, we'll start to see real competition between the proprietary and the open source camps.

  22. They did by jbolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft did save us from the hardware lock-in single vendor world that IBM was trying to create. The result is that "PC" hardware sells at just above cost and is available from a widge range of vendors offering an even wider range of possible products.

    Now we just have to do the same thing at the OS and office suite levels and...

  23. Where's the conflict? by mariox19 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What would Ayn Rand have against Linux? Linux isn't communism.

    Open source is either a hobby or a different business model -- and that includes the GPL. Programmers contribute to open source or free software for a number of reasons. Sometimes it's to acquire status (i.e. make business connections); sometimes it is to develop a product and establish themselves as experts in that product, which will then make it easy to position themselves as consultants; and sometimes it is merely for the joy of working on something cutting edge with a group of other intelligent, motivated people.

    What in the above is anti-capitalistic?

    The phenomenon that is open source or free software merely illustrates that there are a lot of talented, motivated, and ambitious individuals in programming. Additionally, it arises from the fact that software is difficult to design. A small shop or lone consultant could not design meaningful, robust software (barring very few exceptions). Open source is a way for small entrepreneurs to strike out on their own.

    Sure, there are "hippies" in open source -- but so what? A capitalistic society makes room for free software as it does "free love."

    --

    quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.