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US Presidents on Presidential Power

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the stuff-to-think-about dept.

Tod Landis writes "Responding to George Bush's statement that he will preserve executive power for his "predecessors", I've assembled a collection of quotes from those predecessors. Most saw executive power differently..."

18 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. Ok, even I have to cry "Lefty" on this one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What, has slashdot become so anti-Bush that we're taking plain text documents written by the submitter as "news" in the politics section now?

    While I admit this is a good resource, the predecessor mistake was *YEARS* ago- this is hardly new or any more relevant than yet another "Bush is an idiot" post. Those of us who care about intelligence in a president already know Bush is an idiot- those who don't care just like the fact that they've got a president with the same intelligence and learning disabilities that they have. This issue isn't going to change anybody's vote one way or the other.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Ok, even I have to cry "Lefty" on this one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except...for both the Afghani Theater and the Iraqi theater Bush DID go to Congress and got approval. Sure, there's some argument as to approval for what and under what conditions on Iraq, but approval from Congress WAS sought and obtained. So all that we're left with is Bush protecting priviledge for his "predicessors"....

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:Ok, even I have to cry "Lefty" on this one by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Informative
      Actually, to be fair, Roosevelt started the doctrine that troops could be deployed by the president without congress' approval. He did ask congress about sending the fleet around the globe, but was rejected. Well, he decided he could deploy them anyway. When they got half-way around the world and ran out of money, he went back to congress with "Well, how about some money to bring the fleet back?". Of course it was approved.

      Truman presided over the first major armed conflict that did not involve a declaration of war, by convening a UN security council meeting and immediately committing troops to the conflict. This after the secretary of state declaring the Korea really did not fall into the US's "sphere of protection" in the east-asian region.

      Truman also first got the country involved in Vietnam, after the French got over their heads in the conflict and asked the US for help. By 1954, 80% of the war costs were borne the the US.

      Vietnam became a major conflict during Johnson's administration, as he reinstated the draft and dramatically increased the commitment of troops.

      WWII was the last US conflict that involved a formal declaration of war by congress. IMHO, it should not be OK for a president to commit troops to ANY conflict outside of our own borders without a declaration of war from congress. Don't expect ANY president to follow this doctrine.

      The Eisenhower quote is interesting, as he was the last president that recognized deploying troops without congressional authority was not intended by the constitution. He was the LAST president to recognize this (and probably always will be).

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
  2. Come on... by the+darn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm no fan of the Dub, but any collection of quotes can easily manipulated to suit your viewpoint via selection bias. It would be better to examine the actions previous presidents took with regard to defending the presidential "turf."

    --
    Ceci n'est pas un post.
  3. uh, one small detail concerning your quotes... by avi33 · · Score: 3, Informative

    These quotes seem to suggest it's unconstitutional for anyone other than Congress to declare war.

    Congress still has (and did have) the right to declare war, and they turned it over to Bush to use at his disposal. (In theory, at least, I don't think he actually declared anything.)

    Why not a collection of quotes about how Congresspeople are lemmings?

    gears? we don't need no stinking gears.

    1. Re:uh, one small detail concerning your quotes... by Jahf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just because "Congress still has" the right doesn't change the fact that before the (never declared) Korean war the Congress was the -only- body that could do so.

      Since Truman involved the US in the Korean war, presidents have simply bypassed the intent of the Constitution by no officially declaring war. Instead they invoke military police actions or similar.

      The War Powers act in 1973 tried to change this, but so far the legality and constitutionality of both has not changed.

      Fact of the matter is, before 1950 it was assumed that -only- Congress could declare war. Since 1950 it has been assumed that declaring war is red tape and can be bypassed.

      --
      It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  4. I can do the same. by nes11 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sitting here with a book on my desk call "Presidential Power and the Modern Presidents" by Richard E. Neustadt. Perhaps you should read it. It's very easy to pick & choose random quotes & show an agreement that's really not there. Give me a few minutes & I could create a list of quotes that shows that Bush has a very conservative view of President Power.

    In case you're seriously interested, a few other good books are
    "The Paradox of the American Presidency" by Thomas E. Cronin
    and
    "The Ferocious Engine of Democracy" (2 volumes) by Michael P. Riccards.

  5. It Ain't that hard. by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is the the Politics section of /. or the Kerry cheering section? I thought that the editors said they would have a balanced selection of stories in this section?

    WTF has happened to /.? I wish they would hurry up and close the pending sale.

    1. Re:It Ain't that hard. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      They are still looking for a beliveable pro Bush story. May take them a while.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  6. Oh, come on now... by CXI · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't CmdrTaco have a personal blog somewhere to bash Bush instead of doing so on what was once a good news site?

    Not only are the quotes out of context, but they are used in error. Furthermore, congress hasn't declared war since WWII, so it's hard to pretend that Bush doesn't have any precedent if he did go in without approval. Of course, there was approval so this whole "news story" is a farce. Way to go and pull a Dan Rather. At least he finally had to apologize.

  7. Humph by elmegil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can we mod an entire article as -1 flamebait? Please? And I don't even like the shrub....

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  8. Whoa! by the_skywise · · Score: 5, Informative

    This article has nothing to do with "executive power".

    The President has the power to write "Executive Orders". These were meant to be used as quick action rules to act on certain situations before congress and the Senate could debate and decide on a proper strategy (because committees are slow).

    Congress has been trying to restrict those abilities and THAT'S what Bush is defending.

    WAR POWERS (which W is NOT talking about in his quote) are a still hotly debated topic. Executive Orders can be used to facilitate combat (as has been done with Iraq) but the President has combat powers above and beyond the Executive Orders so restricting those doesn't necessarily stop the other.

    Bush is not the first to have done this. Clinton did it with Bosnia, Bush Sr. did it with Panama, Reagan did it with Grenada, etc;

    The whole power structure of wars, waging wars, military action, etc is still a hotly debated topic in congress and this article does no justice in bringing out the real issues.

  9. See what extremism (liberal or conservative) does? by Fished · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A confused George Bush once said "I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for my predecessors as well". Here is a sampler of what those predecessors had to say about the war powers.

    And I have gone to the trouble of examining each quote only to find it misapplied.

    "The constitution vests the power of declaring war in Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until they shall have deliberated upon the subject, and authorized such a measure. " George Washington

    You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    "Congress must be called upon to take [reprisal on a nation]; the right of reprisal being expressly lodged with them by the Constitution, and not with the Executive". Thomas Jefferson

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "Whether the United States shall continue passive under these progressive usurpations and these accumulating wrongs, or, opposing force to force in defense of their national rights, shall commit a just cause into the hands of the Almighty Disposer of Events ... is a solemn question which the Constitution wisely confides to the legislative department of the Government" James Madison

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems in necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure." Abraham Lincoln

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "By an act of war, committed with the participation of a diplomatic representative of the United States and without authority of Congress, the Government of a feeble but friendly and confiding people has been overthrown. A substantial wrong has thus been done..." Grover Cleveland

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "The remedy for this state of things can only be supplied by Congress, since the Constitution has confided to that body alone the power to make war." James Buchanan

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "The issue [of war with Spain] is now with the Congress. ... Prepared to execute every obligation imposed upon me by the Constitution and the law, I await your action" William McKinley

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

    "The assumption by the press that I contemplate intervention in Mexico soil to protect American lives is of course gratuitous, because I seriously doubt whether I have such authority under any circumstances, and if I had I would not exercise it without congressional approval" Howard Taft

    "You mean that Bush should have ... gotten congressional authority before he went to war? You mean ... like he did in Iraq and Afg

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
  10. Both the Senate and House of Reps.... by Nagatzhul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    authorized Bush to go after Iraq. He did not make the choice on his own. The House of Representatives voted 296-133 in favor and the Senate voted 77-23 in favor. How was this a unilateral decision on Bush's part?

    More Bush Bashing on /.

    --
    "All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power." - Ashleigh Brilliant
    1. Re:Both the Senate and House of Reps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Both the Senate and House of Reps.... authorized Bush to go after Iraq.

      They authorized him to make the decision. He made the bad decision by himself.

    2. Re:Both the Senate and House of Reps.... by gothzilla · · Score: 3, Informative

      They did not tell Bush to go after anyone. They gave them the authority to declare war if he felt it was needed. If he did, then he had to justify going to war to congress.

      From http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/
      The resolution requires Bush to declare to Congress either before or within 48 hours after beginning military action that diplomatic efforts to enforce the U.N. resolutions have failed.

      Bush also must certify that action against Iraq would not hinder efforts to pursue the al Qaeda terrorist network that attacked New York and Washington last year. And it requires the administration to report to Congress on the progress of any war with Iraq every 60 days.

      They wanted a diplomatic solution before war and they wanted to make sure the invasion wouldn't disrupt the war on terror.

      This happened on Oct 11, 2002. A month later The UN passed resolution 1441 with tough new arms inspections on Iraq.

      Dec 7, 2002 Iraq submitted its 12,000 page report that says they had no weapons.

      Jan. 16, 2003 UN inspectors discover 11 undeclared empty chemical warheads in Iraq.

      Feb. 22, 2003 Hans Blix orders Iraq to destroy its Al Samoud 2 missiles by March 1.

      March 1, 2003 Iraq begins to destroy its Al Samoud missiles.
      (kinda like telling your kid "I'm going to count to 5" and watching then scurry when you say FIVE!"

      Feb. 24-March 14, 2003 The US tried and failed to get UN support to invade Iraq.

      March 19, 2003 US invades Iraq.

      As you can see, it took 5 months from the time Bush was authorized to invade to the time he actually did invade. If he had invaded within a couple weeks of the authorization then it would be a totally different story. I'm not trying to say it was right or wrong to invade, but the facts say that Bush did have the choice whether to invade or not.

      Whether it was right or wrong won't be known until the history books are written that our grandkids and greatgrandkids use in school. :)

  11. Call for civility by jgardn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am getting quite tired of the baseless claims that people are making. We complain and complain because of the poison that is in politics. Well, let's get our act together and fix it.

    Starting right now, let's all be a lot more civil.

    Despite our political differences, we are all countrymen, in the national sense and in the sense that we all live in this world. We should respect each other and never ever attack someone's character. Let their actions speak for their character. People will be smart enough to judge for themselves. This includes everyone from John Kerry to George Bush to Saddam Hussein down to everybody in this forum.

    We are all able to share our opinions. When we do, let's be clear by prefacing such statements with "I believe" or "I think" or "My opinion is". Let's never ever try to represent opinion as fact.

    When we do discuss fact and logic, let's be very careful to get things right the first time. Quote your sources accurately.

    The way you attack factual and logical arguments is by attacking the individual claims. For instance, if I claimed that Sadr City is now peaceful, you would attack that claim by showing me reports that it is not. You wouldn't attack that claim by calling me a liar.

    If you want to end the poison in politics, you end it with yourself first. Here are my points again.

    1. NEVER attack a person or their character.

    2. ALWAYS preface your opinions with "It is my opinion that..." or "I feel that...".

    3. ALWAYS support claims of fact with evidence, and always quote that evidence accurately. Show your logic in clear steps.

    4. ALWAYS attack the claims and the logical steps people make with more or contrary evidence.

    --
    The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
  12. HUH? by arkham6 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did i accidentaly type cbs.slashdot.org instead of politics.slashdot.org?