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Star Wars Minutiae

Class Act Dynamo writes "CNN does a story on some of the finer points of making the Star Wars flicks. I like the part where Mark Hamill discusses the theoretical logistics of employing janitorial staff for the entire Death Star. Enjoy."

22 of 290 comments (clear)

  1. Janatorial staff? by Spudley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Janatorial staff? I thought that's why they invented droids.

    --
    (Spudley Strikes Again!)
  2. Telling quote... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Kershner, who studies Buddhism as a hobby, said the "Star Wars" movies have a homespun wisdom, but that people shouldn't look too seriously to the Force to solve their problems.

    "Yoda's philosophy was quite simplistic. 'If you get angry, you're gonna lose.' 'Don't try, do.' He has a basic philosophy that is very charming. Not very profound, although young people consider it profound. I wish they would read more."[emphases mine]
    AMEN!
    1. Re:Telling quote... by Illserve · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thing is, that's not really the philosophy.

      It's more like: if you get angry, you're gonna win, but the price in karma won't be worth it.

      And that bit about "luminous beings, not this crude matter" etc, that's a few steps more sophistiticated than the philosophy of many modern day religions.

  3. Worn to death by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Je-heee-zuz H. Christ.

    This was a mediocre story which used advanced techniques for about two years and was quickly eclipsed by much better stories using the same and better techniques.

    SW is much like Flash Gordon. Put it on the shelf and relive it with a buzz on every five years or so.

    Elsewise, get a life, get a life, get a life.

  4. Re:The logistics of building the Death Star by gl4ss · · Score: 1, Insightful

    actually..

    there's a shitload of civilians above every bigger imperial vessel.

    or maybe not in lucas's universe. maybe he'll change storm troopers to be robots some day too(like he "meant to do in the first place").

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  5. The Iraq Kidnappings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The recent spate of kidnappings in Iraq represent a horrific, real-world example of the situation laid out by the parent. A number of friends/associates of mine have been offered exceptionally high paying jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan. None of them have accepted as they regard the risk as too great, but I have found myself wondering:

    * The pay is high because the risk is high - anybody who takes on such a job must realise this. Is it thus their fault if they are harmed/kidnapped/killed?

    * Also, since they are working for/in-the-name-of people whom some Iraq's would regard as the enemy (they do this knowingly) and since by mutual admission of both sides, this is a war - are they legitimate targets?

    I would like to point out that I am referring to people working for western corporations, rather than people performing aid work - the fact medecins sans frontiers and aid workers are being targeted is in my opinion, one of the saddest aspects of this conflict.

    1. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by cybpunks3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the Japanese kidnapped and shot at everyone who came in to rebuild that country after World War II they never would have gone anywhere as a country.

      At some point you have to realize that it's in your best interest to lay down your guns and MOVE ON.

    2. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by innerweb · · Score: 3, Insightful
      True, but it must look like you are defeated, not slowly turning the tide of battle against the US. So far, it seems, we are doing a wonderful job of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq. Winning the ground war with troops is not a victory in this case. We have to win the hearts and minds of the people.

      InnerWeb

      --
      Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
    3. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Win the hearts and minds of the people who cheered in the street when saddam was toppled? Or win the hearts and minds of the zealots that wish to take the country for their own to impose their will?

      Really, I'm not trying to defend the war. At this point, things are very fucked, and the way out is unclear - but things aren't anything like simplistic, and it's a little too early to jerk a knee and declare Iraq a defeat.

      The main problem, I think, is fear. Understandable, tremendous fear - after all, the people of Iraq have lived under the iron fist of arbitrary dictatorship for a long time. It's not an easy transition to make - just ask an abused woman who finally leave her walking, talking asshole. This is just a matter of scaling the situation out.

    4. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IMO entirely wrong.

      We didn't win "hearts and minds" of the Germans, or the Japanese. We (the allies collectively) kicked the crap out of them, killed millions of them (including, inevitably, a lot of people who didn't deserve it), and levelled their countries.

      Then, when everything is destroyed and the people are exhausted, then we rebuilt the countries.

      This whole idea of "hearts and minds" is Cold War BS implemented because the idea of total war was impossible with an enemy Superpower always willing to backstop the existence of the enemy. Now there is no superpower to insure that Iraq remains.

      Sorry to say, but any conflict which we've fought SINCE WW2 has been a halfassed joke. To put it bluntly, we should have used our whole military, sealed off the country, and levelled every major city, annihilate (not simply defeat) every military formation that existed, and smash their infrastructure entirely, making peace only when something crawled out of the rubble begging us to stop.

      One might point out that perhaps if a country never waged 'sort of' wars, but only committed to war that was total (wartime economy, draft, etc.) and to the finish (i.e. annihilation of the enemy, utter destruction of his society), then perhaps that country would:
      a) be less likely to resort to war as a convenience
      b) be taken far, far more seriously when it DID finally threaten war.

      Hm?

      --
      -Styopa
    5. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by JudgeFurious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And this is exactly why warfare in the conventional sense simply doesn't work the way it used to. The US pretty much ran the table against the Iraqi army in what? A matter of weeks? Did it even take that long? The Iraqi army was defeated easily. The Iraqi people though were not defeated in any way, shape, or form. They were inconvienienced. They were without electricity. They were basically put it an bad spot but they weren't beaten.

      Modern warfare, in it's attempt to spare non-combatants from unnecessary suffering has allowed us to wipe out an army while leaving a nation completely "intact" in terms of it's will to fight. Now don't get me wrong about this. Trying not to kill innocent civilians is a good thing in principal. I'm firmly on the "For" side when it comes to not bombing orphans and hospitals. It's just that when you spare the civilian population from that you don't leave them in the position that the post WWII Germans and Japanese were and that leads to a very crappy environment for nation building.

      The US in general sucks at nation building. We've (I'm an American) been good at it twice and that was when we literally blew the holy shit out of everything in sight in Japan and Germany. Once the people in a defeated nation are in complete "Fuck this shit, I don't want to fight anymore. Where do I vote?" mode you can impose a system on them. When they're in "Hey when do I get my power back on and why are you still here?" mode it's impossible.

      Bush & Co. screwed up on this one. They seem to have had in mind that they could get WWII era results using 21st century rules of war.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    6. Re:The Iraq Kidnappings by JWhitlock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sorry to say, but any conflict which we've fought SINCE WW2 has been a halfassed joke. To put it bluntly, we should have used our whole military, sealed off the country, and levelled every major city, annihilate (not simply defeat) every military formation that existed, and smash their infrastructure entirely, making peace only when something crawled out of the rubble begging us to stop.

      First, the Funny: Ah, the Civ3 answer.

      And now the Troll: Good Final Solution, Hitler. It's too bad:

      1. Iraq didn't have terrorists (except for areas protected from Baghdad by the UN no-fly zone),
      2. they didn't have any weapons of mass destruction to speak of, because
      3. the inspections were keeping Saddam from accumulating any, and
      4. Saddam would never give the people that hate his regime a thimble of nerve gas, much less a nuclear device, but of course
      5. Saddam wasn't anywhere near a nuclear device. And, of course,
      6. Iraq was a distraction from the fact that a full ground offensive in Afghanistan couldn't find Osama Bin Laden, because he was probably hiding in the backyard of our ally, Pakistan.

      And, perhaps the Insightful: If we had done like we did for the Germans and Japanese, and relocated all the military personnel to Prisoner of War camps in the Midwest, giving them a chance to acclimate to a life without war, then maybe we would have had a chance to rebuild the country. Accountants and Idealists lost these particular wars for the US.

      So, there ya go mods. Have fun, and please wait for "Overrated" until it gets a few points...

  6. Re:The logistics of building the Death Star by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Randal: Well, the thing is, the first Death Star was manned by the Imperial army-storm troopers, dignitaries- the only people onboard were Imperials.

    Even that is not true - we know that Death Star had lots of prison cells (we know that there are more cell blocks than just the one where Lea is kept. It's safe to assume that on Death Star there were at least dozens (if not hundreds) of prisoners of the Empire. Now, some of them could be also evil, like drunken stormtroopers or a lousy TIE-fighter pilot who scratched paint on Vader's machine while parking, but many of them were probably genuine freedom fighters - the prisoners from blocade runner, for example.

  7. Re:the extras dvd is impressive... by madmancarman · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And for the trailers - they are ruly insufferable - hard to believe anyone went to see ANH on the strength of the trailer - the ROTJ trailer is just tolerable by today's standards,

    It was probably sometime in the late 80s or early 90s when movie trailers began to be tolerable. Often, I prefer watching the trailer to sitting through the actual movie, so I used to try to show up early to the theater to catch all the trailers. Now, of course, they beat you over the head with 20-30 minutes of trailers and stupid MovieTickets.com commercials. It's easier to watch them at Apple's Quicktime movie trailers page.

    For a while in the 90s, every movie trailer that I ever saw seemed to be done by the guy who did the voice for Optimus Prime in the original Transformers series, Peter Cullen. You could pretty much tell whether or not a movie studio took the trailer seriously if they used him for the voiceovers....

    "(rising voice) A time of prosperity.... (lowering voice) A place of peace. (slow, heavily enunciated lower voice) Now.... one man... threatens.. it.. all." Fun stuff, even though there seem to be more trailers now that don't use voiceovers at all but instead rely on screens of text to piece things together.

    My major pet peeve about trailers, though, is when they show the entire movie plot in the trailer. It completely removes any element of surprise, and makes it almost pointless to go see the movie. For example, the new trailer for Flight of the Phoenix does just that - the entire story is compressed down into a two minute version, sort of like a Readers Digest condensed book. It's sort of how trailers for comedy flicks show you the funniest parts of the movie in the hopes that you'll shell out $9 to see it, but then have nothing additional to offer.

    --
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
  8. Are you totally stupid? by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (Yeah, yeah, off-topic but you've got to respond when someone asks that kind of question.)

    The US occupiers in post-WWII weren't calling in air strikes on cities and killing innocent men, women and children in the process. If you're American, you hear about every US soldier that dies but how often do you hear about Iraqi deaths at American hands?

    According to some estimates, this war has killed over 25,000 Iraqi civilians so far. Note, those are estimates, because nobody's been keeping an official count of Iraqi dead probably because - and this is the honest truth that most politicians wouldn't admit - most people in positions of responsibility don't give a shit.

    Now, answer honestly, if you're an average Joe, and your wife and kids are killed in by an American air strike that flattens you home and you neighbourhood, just how hurt, how frustrated and how angry are you going to feel? And what are you more likely to do: take it lying down or want to fight back.

    300 Iraqis civilians are dying every week as a result of the ongoing fighting. That's 300 people per week in a country with less than 10 percent of America's population. In other words, that's the Iraqi equivalent of a September 11th every damn week.

    Now do you get an idea of why the country is so fucked up?

    Did I mention that the war's illegal? That there never were WMDs? That there never was any link between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's regime? That September 11th had nothing to do with Iraq? Etc, etc.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Are you totally stupid? by servognome · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US occupiers in post-WWII weren't calling in air strikes on cities and killing innocent men, women and children in the process.
      That's because Japan/Germany were beaten into submission. Drop 2 atomic bombs on Iraq, and firebomb Baghdad and things might change.
      The US should never have gone into Iraq. You cannot occupy a country without breaking the will of the people, and to do that, you pretty much have to decimate it. The war made no sense to begin with, and there was no coherent strategy post defeat of the standing goverment.
      Unfortunately the US is stuck keeping troops in Iraq, otherwise, the power vaccuum would most likely lead to civil war and there'd be thousands of deaths a week. So now the US is stuck sacrificing money and lives to try and keep the peace in a situation it caused. We have GWB to thank for running our country into a deficit on a war we didn't need, and for alienating the rest of the world.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    2. Re:Are you totally stupid? by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *** Drop 2 atomic bombs on Iraq, and firebomb Baghdad and things might change.***

      and half the iraq would celebrate, and all of them hate americans even more...

      that's the problem, they're not centralised, and neither is it a stabilised region. the only thing holding it together was saddam and his goons. it is not an old 'natural nation. they have a tradition of not getting along.

      if you take a look at the quite recent history anyone with brains would stay the fuck out and let them duke it out and form more natural nations(this takes time, can't be sped up and might not never happen). but alas, because of the oil(and some other political happenings in the region that made usa back up hussein earlier) they can't just be let alone.

      lose/lose..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  9. Re:The logistics of building the Death Star by rd_syringe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They don't wear uniforms

    Really? The rebels even have their own insignia!

    they are not commanded by a government,

    Then how was a princess involved? Leia's own mother was a queen of a government on Naboo.

  10. Re:Contractor Discussion Relevant by kurfu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The guerillas are actively targeting the reconstruction crews in Iraq. They view them in the same light that they view the armed forces. Now that we sit on the Empire's side of the whole contractor debate, do we view the death of the contractor's as any more or less tragic then the death of the soldiers?

    Very simple...

    The contractor's working on The Death Star were building a weapon capable of detroying entire planets.

    The contractor's in Iraq are trying to rebuild a country as to provide a better life for it's citizens.

    Any questions?

  11. Re:the extras dvd is impressive... by MacGod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My major pet peeve about trailers, though, is when they show the entire movie plot in the trailer. It completely removes any element of surprise, and makes it almost pointless to go see the movie. For example, the new trailer for Flight of the Phoenix does just that - the entire story is compressed down into a two minute version, sort of like a Readers Digest condensed book. It's sort of how trailers for comedy flicks show you the funniest parts of the movie in the hopes that you'll shell out $9 to see it, but then have nothing additional to offer.

    In general, I agree this is true. I think a far worse case is when comedies have every funny bit in the trailer

    However, sometimes, the movie itself is worth watching; especially if the spectacle outweighs the story. Remember, for example, that Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet gave a summary of the entire plot in the opening sonnet. You knew what happend, you knew how it ended. It was watching the characters get there that was worth seeing

    --
    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
  12. Re:The logistics of building the Death Star by eidechse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow. You might want to lay off Fox News for a while. You seem to be getting a bit worked up if you think that anyone (except the occasional serial killer or vampire) engages in that sort of activity for absolutely no reason.

  13. Re:The logistics of building the Death Star by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What reason could possibly justify terrorism?

    You're engaging in circular reasoning. If your defintion of terrorism is, as you state, "[w]hat makes a terrorist a terrorist is the fact that he [kills] for absolutely no reason," then the answer if trivial, but you have the problem that your defintion applies to almost no one we usually label terrorists.

    Let's look at another defintion from the FBI: "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives"

    Note the qualifier "unlawful". So all I have to do is pass a law saying what I do is ok. But if we remove that qualifier, no doubt that most major governments are terrorist organizations. Ooops.

    And that's the problem. Every state uses force and terror for political goals. There is no clean shining line between "freedom fighter" and "terrorist".

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood