Pumps Without Moving Parts

madprof writes "A researcher at Cambridge University has developed a usefully efficient thermofluidic pump to benefit some of the world's poorest people by performing irrigation and other tasks. Tom Smith has been awarded Science Graduate of the Year by the Royal Institution of Great Britain for this breakthrough and is giving a public lecture on 6th October in London. A great example of scientific innovation directly benefiting people."

Comments

Sounds like the "Red October"

[TykeClone]

and its "caterpillar" drive.

First Post!

Re:Sounds like the "Red October"

[drinkypoo]

Actually the caterpillar drive exists in the civilian sector, I saw a thing on TV about some guys in japan (read: some megacorporation) who have a little boat that uses it. Unfortunately it takes a ridiculous amount of energy and runs about five knots. Still, once you have it working at all, it's only a matter of time before technology makes it feasible. Just think, one day we could have near-silent personal watercraft (like electric cars, perhaps they should be designed to emit noise) that don't ever dump petrochemicals into the water...

Re:Sounds like the "Red October"

[TykeClone]

In the case of the Red October, I'm sure that the amount of power required really didn't matter as they had a nuclear reactor on board.

Didn't realize that there was actually a working model of the drive, though.

Re:Sounds like the "Red October"

[drinkypoo]

Right, it's pretty feasible in a sub because subs are big and heavy and have nuclear reactors in them. It's just not useful in basically any other scenario right now due to our lack of a practical electrical power storage and/or generation system for this purpose.

Huh

[Anonymous Coward]

Pumping without moving? What's the point?

Re:Huh

[memco]

The pump will last longer, and is theoretically cheaper to use in the long run as they won't need maintenance. It's more cost effective.

Re:Huh

[ScrewMaster]

I, uh, think the parent was making a joke.

"Under Construction"

[Engineer-Poet]

It's a pity that we don't get to see the thing he's going to be talking about; there is nothing informative on the page.

Thermally driven pumps without SOLID moving parts:

[Hartree]

have been known for a long time.

They work fine in some cases. A ramjet is one such. If you want to be picky and want one that uses just heat rather than an injected fuel as an input, then the nuclear thermal ramjet that was looked at in the 50s for Project Pluto.

Apparently he's figured out how to make one that's more effective for liquids in more day to day environments. The site gives few details on it though. He won a prize for it, but I'm a little leary of the hype factor with no technical details.

Cynical?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, it might be yet another hyped no-news filler but ugh! /.ers pour silly remarks on the latest SCO news, flame away while discussing cpu archs, compete for -5 funny on the latest M$ exploit... preach to the choir on the latest distro... and here we have 4 comments... Hmm... don't blame FOX for the shit it pours... you get what you deserve....

How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[jc42]

I mean, how are fluid oscillations not "moving parts".

OK; I understand what they're trying to say, and I also understand that this is hardly news (since the basic idea has been around for a couple of centuries).

But the phrase "moving parts" seems like sometime really in need of replacement by something that's a bit less misleading. The functional parts of this pump are quite definitely moving.

Re:How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[Polo]

The terminology sounds ok to me -- moving parts implies that there are parts that wear out and have to be replaced because of friction or whatever. Like a metal piston and so forth.

Saying this engine has no moving parts makes senes and seems fair.

Do they count gasoline or coolant or oil as a moving part in car engines? I think THAT would be overly pedantic.

Re:How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[torpor]

'fluid' is not a part.

Re:How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[drinkypoo]

Gasoline is fuel. Coolant is... coolant. Oil is lubricant. However, each of them are definitely considered in the context of motion because none of them are useful when standing still. It still doesn't make them a moving part, of course.

Re:How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[gr8_phk]

"No moving parts" makes me think of MHD pumps which are not terribly efficent and only work on conducting/ionised fluids. MHD truely has no moving parts unless you count electons flowing in wire.

Re:How about some less fuzzy terminology?

[jc42]

Well, usually the fluids wouldn't be considered a "part" of a pump. But in this case, the actual pump consists of oscillations in the fluid, while the solid-phase components are merely the "case" that contains the pump. So it would seem reasonable to list the fluid (or more specifically the wave fronts in the fluid) as the "parts" of the pump.

Yeah, I know; it's "Picky, picky." But the history of science and engineering is full of examples where the detailed definitions of the terms are very important to full understanding.

OTOH, we're talking about a media report here, so I suppose one can't expect precise terminology.

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

"A great example of scientific innovation directly benefiting people."

Interesting, is that supposed to mean that scientific innovation doesn't benefit people?

"benefit some of the world's poorest people"

[Teclis]

Why would this benefit the poorest people? It still takes energy to pump the liquid. If they are poor, they need power to pump water and in case you don't know, water is heavy. Ever tried lifting a barrel full of water? The only benefit over conventional pumps is that it has a long lifetime and fewer parts. The cost is probually much higher and the energy to run it is not free.

On the other hand, if you can run this off solar power (assuming you can generate enough power), this would be great!

Re:"benefit some of the world's poorest people"

[SteveAstro]

RTFL to the article - there is immense potential for these things to be solar powered.

Steve

Re:"benefit some of the world's poorest people"

[stevelinton]

It runs off relatively low-grade heat. Solar (paint the relevant part of
the pump black and stick it in the Sun) is one option. Light a small fire under it
is another. For all I know it might be enough to shovel a pile of fresh buffalo-dung onto the "hot" end, or tuck it under your sleeping yak.

Power is not always electricity or oil.

Re:"benefit some of the world's poorest people"

[Teclis]

Perhaps you don't understand my point. I mean that the number of Watts required to pump water for irrigation is so large, that the sun may not be a viable source.

Re:"benefit some of the world's poorest people"

[stevelinton]

I think drinking water is more the issue than irrigation.

Submarines?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, can this be scaled and get an almost-silent submarine? On the other hand, having a silent sub with nukes could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

This is total vaporware

[Animats]

When you finally find the paper, it says

• Abstract - The commercial feasibility of small scale solar ORC for distributed generation and CHP is demonstrated. This has been achieved with an exergy analysis of over 150 commercially available solar hot water collectors, a survey of candidate working fluids and by adapting rotary refrigeration compressors to run in reverse direction as expanders/asynchronous generators. A computer code combining the results of these sub-studies has demonstrated that self-stabilisation close to optimum conditions for given irradiance may be possible without electronic feedback control. The principle obstacles encountered included oil migration, face and tip sealing problems and low expansion ratios.

"Commercial feasibility" is total bullshit. They haven't even built a prototype.

If you want solar powered water pumps, they're commercially available. A complete kit, including solar panels, is $1,697. But they're not really cost-effective. Windmill pumps still outperform solar, and newer pumps will work at low wind speeds.

Re:This is total vaporware

[anubi]

Remember those old lever-operated water pumps? A long rod went down to where the water was and the weight of the rod was counterbalanced at the handle, so when you pushed the handle down, you effectively lifted the column of water above the piston toward you?

We had those kind down at grandpa's farm.

And yes, the windmill. It was an old tractor differential with one of the "tire" ends welded shut, as well as the "tail" assembly fin welded there as to always keep the other end facing into the wind. The drive shaft was oriented vertically, transmitting its torque down to a crank that operated this kind of pump. The faster the wind blew, the more furiously the pump cranked.

The whole differential assembly was only supported by the drive shaft so the entire assembly would face whatever way the wind was blowing. The torque actually put on the "drive shaft" ( long piece of irrigation pipe, actually ) was miniscule compared to the force of the wind against the tail assembly, which was bent just a bit to compensate for this torque.

Grandpa designed it and welded it together. All out of farm scrap. Well, I think he had the fan assembly prefab, but the rest of the whole shebang was homegrown.

It damn near always had a small creek of water overflowing from the trough Grandpa had put there to hold the water for his horses and cows, and any other living creature stopping by for a drink.

Grandpa didn't have an engineering degree, yet to me he was a true engineer. I thought my Grandpa could build anything. Still do.

Re:This is total vaporware

[Almost-Retired]

You had one like that? So did I. When the maytag backfired and broke grandmas ankle as she was stepping on the starter lever, grandpa went to town and came back with enough stuff to get started on a delco/wincharger 32 volt electric system and one of its first jobs was to replace that contankerous old maytag putt putt miss miss miss putt miss miss engine with an electric motor. So we had the first electric washing machine in Madison County Ia, within walking distance to many of the bridges they made a movie out of 60 years later.

Yeah, grandpa was like that. I would like to think I got some of my own common sense and technical ability from him.

Cheers, Gene

Re:This is total vaporware

[anubi]

Yeh.. I remember my Grandpa talking about AC and DC.

It seems when electrification was first coming to the cities, they used DC. So everyone went out and bought motors. Then the power companies started switching to AC, and it fouled a lot of people up who had bought DC technology. Of course, the knowledgeable ones would build power converters, but without the internet and rapid means of disseminating information, this knowledge was in little pockets here and there.

Yes, a lot of DC motors will run on AC, but you now need to take into account things like inductive reactance and adjust things accordingly.

I am not familiar with the 32 volt DC, but I could sure see where it could exist in localized areas. Back in those days, the standards for power seemed just about as nebulous as today's standards for file formats.

I sure miss my Grandpa. He had more "toys" on that farm... I ended up growing up in the city, and my dad signed papers and told other people to do the neat stuff. Yeh, he got paid more to tell other people to do things, but I feel I really missed out a lot on the pure therapeutic value of doing things. Dad never quite understood the fascination I had with building things... and could not talk with me of such things - so he would spend his weekends with his buddies on the fishing boats.

He was one of those types who liked everything neat and tidy - like goods on shelves in a store. That is - unused. He lived in a suit and tie world where others ministered to their support infrastructures.

And me, I am happiest in a nest of stuff, in use, trying things out. Experimenting to find out how something *really* works.

Oh God, don't cha wish we could bring these old guys back just to talk to them? I think I would get a big kick from talking to your Grandpa.

I get so aggravated talking to most of my contempories... as all they seem to be interested in is meaningless drivel like fashion trends.

My ancestors grew up in a completely different environment where substance was far more important. It seems they had a far more acute sense for discriminating wheat from chaff.

Re:This is total vaporware

[Almost-Retired]

I think we are in violent agreement about whats important. My grandpa was a farmer, but one who always seemed to know what it took to make this or that work, often better than new. He also knew his animals better than most, got that from his dad I think, who had a reputation for never coming back from town with the same team he took to town, and it seemed he always made a little cash in the trading even if the team he brought home wasn't worth peddling to the glue factory.

He was rarely without a good team though, tending to hang onto a decent pair of Percherons a lot longer than anything else because when push comes to shove, its a bit hard to argue with 2 tons of them when they leaned into the traces with nothing more than a tsk tsk to get them going. I buried a case LA tractor & a plow with 3 16" bottoms down in the south 40 one day, and those two horses had nearly 100 feet of 1/2" log chain up in the air by about 18" in the middle of the span from them to the tractor when the tractor finally came loose and crawled out of the hole I'd made. To say they were leaning into it is an understatement as I still remember their bellies only a foot off the ground to this day. Gentle giants they were, 4200 lbs between them. I rode them bareback many times, and caught hell from grandpa once when he saw one with me on it, running on hard ground, that was abuse in his eyes.

Yeah, I wish he weas still around, he could, if people wanted to learn, teach them a lot about living, where a mans handshake was better than a signature on a contract today. There was no such thing as fileing for bankruptcy to avoid makeing that handshake good then. If you were still breathing, you made good on it, it was that simple.

Unforch, even todays modern medicine couldn't save him from the cancer that killed him when he was 3 years younger than I am now. The big C also took my mother a bit ahead of her time, and a daughter of mine already, so I sometimes wonder if I'm running on borrowed time. I'll be 70 a week from today.

Anyway, thanks for the opportuniuty to reminisce a bit.

Cheers, Gene

Re:This is total vaporware

[madprof]

Er, the research that has gone into this thermofluidic pump is *absolutely new*. You cannot find a pump of this nature anywhere else. Tom has developed something entirely new, so give it a chance.

Re:This is total vaporware

[madprof]

Oh yo've not noticed that this doesn't run using electricity have you?
Solar powered water pumps use electric motors currently.
This doesn't.
The only moving "part" is the fluid....

No moving Parts

[bobcote]

Didn't Einstein patent a refrigeration unit based on these principals? (Scientific America Jan 199)

Re:Thermally driven pumps without SOLID moving par

[madprof]

Well we'll all be a lot more wise after tonight!