Online Dating Advice?

404 Advice not found by secolactico · 2004-09-29 15:30 · Score: 5, Funny

HA! It is bad enough when people ask for legal advice on slashdot, but now they are asking for dating advice?

What would be the IANAL equivalent? IASAV (still a virgin)?

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eHarmony is religous by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:30 · Score: 4, Informative

eHarmony is run by a religious guy as I remember. You spend like an hour or two going through this huge questionaire which promises to match you with somebody compatible.

Then at the end of it basically if you are not strongly xtian (it figures from the questions) you are likely as not to get a message saying that they are unable to provide service to you.

I wouldn't mind them only serving the religous, but they should say so up front to save people wasting a couple hours for no good reason!

Google usenet and you'll find many cases such as this one.

Re:eHarmony is religous by Orion · 2004-09-29 15:33 · Score: 2, Informative

That's a rather unfair statement.

Yes, it is run by a guy who follows a religion. No, he doesn't push that on you at all. Supposidly, the people rejected are because they are not looking for relationships, just dates. That's a very different thing.

Of course, the information on how the matching is done is proprietary, so we'll never know for sure.

Still, the site is definitly *not* religiously based.
Re:eHarmony is religous by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:56 · Score: 4, Informative

I've meet Pagans and Wiccans through eHarmony. It may be run by someone with a strong religious point of view, but the purpose is to match people with their best possible partners.

I am NOT Christian, and had no problem joining and getting matches. Actually, I prefer it, because it is one site where I know that I, as a non-Christian, won't be matched with someone who will try to save me.

I don't know where you got your info, but my experience tells me you are 100% wrong.
Re:eHarmony is religous by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:59 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, after thinking about it, I remember reading that they do tell some people they are not eligible for their service. For example, something like 90% of all marriages where at least one person is under 20 end in divorce, so they don't match people under 21, people with over a certain number of divorces (I don't know if it's 2 or 3), AND (this is the one that will really tick you off), they use the questionaire to evaluate your own stability and your ability to function well in a stable relationship. You might have gotten turned down, but it is only your assumption that it was because of religion. My experience tells me the accept athiests, Pagans, and even members of Eastern religions (from matches I've had). Perhaps you're too young, too many divorces, or not at a point where you're ready for a healthy relationship. (Their tests are good at screen for such situations!)
Re:eHarmony is religous by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 22:31 · Score: 3, Informative

Then at the end of it basically if you are not strongly xtian (it figures from the questions) you are likely as not to get a message saying that they are unable to provide service to you.
This is false. Eharmony rejects some people after they fill out the profile. I have yet to see anyone provide a good explanation of who gets chosen for rejection. It certainly doesn't reject you based on your religious beliefs. I think many people made this up becuase they were pissed off at getting rejected by the system after spending 20 minutes answering questions.
Re:eHarmony is religous by caseydk · 2004-09-30 01:47 · Score: 2, Informative

The EHarmony guy has given lots and lots of interviews where he has said pretty clearly that they want to match people with similar morals, values, etc...

http://www.catholicdaters.com/ is specifically targetted at Catholics and works on the same premise, but is targetted at a particular denomination.
Re:eHarmony is religous by WildFire42 · 2004-09-30 02:48 · Score: 4, Informative

I personally used eHarmony for several months, and ran into many problems with it, regardless of any religious issues that it may incur (which I never experienced).

Technically, the site is slow, buggy, and difficult to work with. The web-based UI is terrible, and sorting and searching matches was annoying at best.

Match-wise, eHarmony is good for East-Coast residents. Mid-west and West-Coast patrons, from what I've seen, are basically up a creek.

I had nearly a hundred "matches" in about 4 months, most of which never responded.

Here is my full write-up of the service.

While I think the methodology and concept behind eHarmony is solid, the execution needs a lot of work. Instead, you'd probably be better off in DreamMates or American Singles.

Stay the hell away from Friend Finder, btw.
Re:eHarmony is religous by Nyyght · 2004-09-30 17:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

Personally I am a very non-religious sort. Out of the curiosity this string of comments had brought to light I decided to go and take the test myself.

I am not religious, not spiritual, and the only thing I feel strongly about is my computer. I answered the questions accordingly and I was accepted, with 4 matches in a 300-500 mile radius. All of these matches were 10-20 years older than me.

This leads me to believe that maybe it isn't so much that eHarmony is religious (though that does seem to play a large part), but that most of the people who use it are in an older demographic. Or perhaps those who have applied and were rejected just weren't very datable.

They seem to be relying heavily on common interests and "kindness". I personally think that is a mistake, as people are not always great at analyzing themselves. I'm sure more than one person has put that they consider themselves amazingly kind... when truthfully they're a total ass. Or even more common is the person who considers themselves to be a cold evil bastard... when they have a good heart.

In the end no one is very good at deciding on a level from 1-7 how good or bad they are at anything. Dating in this format, as with so many other dating sites, quizzes, and polls... are completely and utterly pointless.

Religious or not, it is highly unlikely that you will find anything more than another lost hopeless feeling individual who you may or may not end up meeting in the future. So then, perhaps you should be glad if you're rejected. Be thankful that you aren't filled with the qualities that would allow you to fall victim to their sick "match-making" game.

Pedaling off false hope for money.
Re:eHarmony is religous by Kymermosst · 2004-09-30 18:26 · Score: 2, Funny

While I think the methodology and concept behind eHarmony is solid, the execution needs a lot of work. Instead, you'd probably be better off in DreamMates or American Singles.

American Singles???

--
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

strange.... by moosesocks · 2004-09-29 15:30 · Score: 4, Funny

you seem to make it seem like an accomplishment.

sorry to break it to you buddy

you're an ametur in a crowd of professionals. if that's an accomplishment, all of /. should be nominated for the nobel prize.

and let's not turn this into a 200-reply thread about marriage. it seems to happen a lot whenever the issue is raised.

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-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose

Funniest thing I've heard today by Spoing · 2004-09-29 15:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

I plan on staying single for a while into the future, but I am considering online dating in addition to other methods of meeting local women for casual dating.

What-r-u-nuts? Get married NOW. That way, you can get that much close to your second marrage; the one that you will be happy with. (Just don't have kids in the first one.)

(Go ahead...mod this as funny. The old guys know I'm not joking.)

--
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.

Re:Funniest thing I've heard today by gcaseye6677 · 2004-09-29 16:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

Consider the type of guys who usually hit on women in public. It's often times not a pretty site. I know several girls that are moderately to extremely good looking who use online dating. It's not that they can't get a date otherwise, but they want to find a better guy than they would typically meet in a bar. Not to mention they have a lot more control over the process, like being able to get to know someone over a period of time before meeting up with them. Some chicks do the online dating thing for the same reason as most guys (to get laid), but most of them are probably looking for quality, which is hard to find in bars, malls, or what have you.

Yahoo Personals by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Having tried online personals for a while, I can tell you this: Most of the ads are fake -- escort services, fake pictures, lame assholes trying to f with people. You'll have better luck down at the local bar.

Re:Yahoo Personals by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-09-29 16:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'd have to agree. If you want to try Internet dating, or personal ads, or dating services:

DON'T.

It's that simple. In my part time job I deal with a HUGE number of people in troubled relationships. Here's some of what I've learned from my experience with dating businesses and seen from people I've worked with:

1) On Internet dating, people chat, e-mail, and talk on the phone. If you do try this, meet the person ASAP. Otherwise you don't get a full image of them in your mind and your imagination fills in the blanks with wishful thinking, instead of the fully rounded personality of a true human, complete with foibles. This is especially true for long distance relationships.

2) A large amount of what you see online, in personal ads, through a dating service is misleading. People often either present themselves as they think will look good, as they want to be, or as they see themselves (which is often inaccurate). Then they try to maintain that personality while they're with you.

3) Dating services can be as bad, or worse, than anything else. I tried Together (this was over 10 years ago), and ended up meeting a lawyer elsewhere who helped me sue Together because they did such a rotten job. I got back more than I paid them!

4) Most of the online services are run by people that know little about relationships and how intricate they are (other than their own experiences -- which does not show most of us how delicate many other relationships are). They are more into marketing than into helping people find soulmates (which is really a stupid term and leads people to think there is just one person for them and this person would be a perfect match).

5) If you have to try this, try eHarmony. I saw another thread where someone said they only match Christians. Not true. I took 45 minutes once to take their tests, and register for 1 month to see what they had. Their questionaires are valid (that's from someone who spent about 10 years working in treatment programs), they do a good job at weeding out kooks and people too unstable for a healthy relationship, and they do a good job at matching you with people who are close enough for you to feel comfortable. They won't match a Buddist with a 7th Day Adventist (unless you, as a Buddist, say it's okay!). Actually, one difference is eHarmony picks your matches, based on what psychologists know works. Their tests are complex enough to make it hard to mis-represent yourself (or be fooled by others), so instead of being fooled by the hot blonde who will suck your wallet dry without ever giving you a thing (and who seemed compatible), eHarmony will match you with people highly likely to get along with you.

I have never seen good matches come from dating services (just complaints), rarely from personal ads, and hardly ever from web sites. I have, though, seen many people who have ended up in screwed up relationships through all of the above.
Re:Yahoo Personals by dasunt · 2004-09-29 17:39 · Score: 3, Funny

They won't match a Buddist with a 7th Day Adventist...

Why not? Both tend towards vegetarianism. :)
Re:Yahoo Personals by Eminence · 2004-09-29 21:54 · Score: 2, Informative
After reading your post I tried eHarmony personality test out of curiosity and this is what it said in the end:
- Unable to Match You at This Time
  eHarmony is based upon a complex matching system developed through extensive testing of married individuals. One of the requirements for it to work successfully is for participants to fall into our rigorously defined profiles. If we aren't able to match a user well using these profiles, the most considerate approach is to inform them early in the process.
  We are so convinced of the importance of creating compatible matches to help people establish and enjoy happy, lasting relationships that we choose not to provide service rather than risk an uncertain match.
  Unfortunately, we are not able to make our profiles work for you. Our matching system is not suitable for about 20% of potential users, so 1 in 5 people simply would not benefit from our service. We hope that you understand that we regret our inability to provide service for you at this time.
So, it looks like I'm doomed.
Re:Yahoo Personals by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-09-30 03:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have to strenuously disagree with you here.

1) I agree, it's best to meet face to face as soon as practical. However, you can know someone for years and still fill in a lot of their personality with wishful thinking. The best advice is to be extremely honest extremely early, and hit the topics that could cause problems as quickly as possible.

2) <sarcasm$gt;Good thing this only happens over the Internet.</sarcasm$gt; Admittedly, in face to face conversation it's impossible for a 300-lb. guy from Detroit to pretend to be a fifteen year old girl, but the point stands. It's the same as any other forum: watch out for falseness and pretension, and don't take anyone at their word.

3) Was this an online dating service? Or a real life one? I've never tried the latter.

4) Evidence? I don't see a huge advantage to having an online service run by someone with a masters in psychology or family counseling, because it's so difficult to apply anything they've learned in their studies to Internet dating. Those who think too highly of their own knowledge will end up running something like eHarmony.com, which (according to another poster) writes off 20% of their potential customers as hopeless.

5) Screw eHarmony. Try OKCupid. The system is pretty straightforward. You create an account, then answer as many of the hundreds of questions in their database as you like. You can also say how your ideal match would answer, and how important it is that they answer properly. Then it looks for people who match you well. It works pretty well so long as you're honest with yourself and actually know what you want.

It's absolutely free. No "Premium Memberships" crap.

To summarize my post: I met my girlfriend there, and I resent the implication that this automatically means our relationship is "screwed up".

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You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Re:Yahoo Personals by dubl-u · 2004-09-30 04:57 · Score: 3, Funny

Why not? Both tend towards vegetarianism. :)

In addition, those I've met from both groups tend to be pretty thoughtful, honest, respectful, and are used to being outside the mainstream without a burning need to disengage from or denigrate the mainstream. It wouldn't be my first matchmakery choice, but I could see them getting along.

On the other hand, I'd pay good money to see the dating adventures of a Jehovah's Witness and a Hare Krishna.
Re:Yahoo Personals by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-10-01 10:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

You can't ask a girl her religion on the first date? I don't think that's true at all. I knew my girlfriend's religion, views on sex, marriage, and children, her favorite authors, her hobbies and interests, her scientific mindset, and most all the other big questions before we even met face to face. We discussed everything from every angle, and I think we were brutally honest with each other. It worked.

OKCupid is great for finding a bunch of people who are a lot like you. eHarmony sounds to me like a good choice for those who are willing to pay a premium in order to avoid the risk of a bad date. I think both approaches are valid.

I met my girlfriend there, and I resent the implication that this automatically means our relationship is "screwed up".
Hmmm... You seem touchy on this topic. Maybe you're the one in 1,000 that works well. On the other hand, if you know you have a good relationship, why is this enough of a tender spot for you that you have to justify it, much less, even pay any attention to what I say?
The reason I got touchy is because you're trying to convince people that meeting people online isn't viable, a claim with which I strongly disagree. But if you'd rather turn it into a sign that I'm insecure about my relationship, you go right ahead.

My impression is, you want the comfort of meeting someone who shares all your most important values, without the discomfort of actually asking the questions needed to find out those values.

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You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

Sounds like you already know by Orion · 2004-09-29 15:37 · Score: 5, Informative

If you're looking for "casual" dating, eHarmony is out. Even they will tell you that. Match.com is probably the best known, and so it's probably also your best bet.

This sounds like a technical spec by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

"but I am considering online dating in addition to other methods of meeting local women for casual dating."

Your post reads like a functional spec for some implementation:

"the approproiate function should directly or indirectly provide methods to locate female interaction in convenient proximity to the user's house in timely manner."

That's just weird, man.

Stop working so much. Get out and interact and live! Stop thinking like an engineer and treat other people like normal human, living creatures.

Re:For those in the Tribe by Spoing · 2004-09-29 15:47 · Score: 3, Informative

jdate.com is 'j' as in 'Jewish'. If you're not, that service might not accept you. If you are, it could be quite good since you'd have something to talk about right away...even if you're not too interested in religon.

--
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.

Under the Huppah... by phraktyl · 2004-09-29 15:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have heard a lot of good things about http://www.underthehuppah.com. Several friends have found dating parters there they are very happy with on the site (I am fortunate enough to already have a wonderful partner, or I would sign up as well).

It's a site geared towards Hebrew Christian and Messianic Jewish dating, but even if you don't fall under one of these categories, it's a great site, with a lot of people.

Good luck!

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Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)

Advice by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 15:56 · Score: 5, Informative

A few comments on the sites I've tried.

eharmony.com: only for people who are abjectly terrified of meeting people. They jump through tons of hoops to make sure you won't ever have to talk to people you might not like. This site is only for people who are unwilling to take risks. Frankly, I don't know how one can date at all without taking risks so I think this site is dumb.

match.com: the biggest, but also one of the most annoying. Their user interface is horrible (you may have to try several browsers or (eek) IE), they delete your emails, and it's expensive ($20/month). Frankly after sending messages to people for a while it's useful to go back and see who you've emailed before and what you said. Because most of the time, the first email will go unanswered.

Spring Street Networks: These guys have a number of sites including personals.theonion.com, personals.nerve.com, and about 12 others. This has some of the most clever, interesting personals out there. They're also cheap. You buy "credits" and use them when you want to (usually $1 to email someone -- but only the first time). So unless you're contacting a lot of people, It's very difficult to work up to the $20/month the other sites charge.

personals.yahoo.com: Also a decent site, personals are less interesting than spring street, but they have more people. The link to yahoo's instant messenger is nice too.

hotornot.com: (and similar) So simple even a monkey could figure it out, so monkeys generally do. It's nice because it's noncommittal. On the other sites, many people are basically looking for a husband, or a commitment from the first. Personally, I can't meet people under those kind of expectations. Maybe after a while, but not up front. So it's eas(ier) to meet people casually. It's also pretty cheap. $6/month, IIRC.

Online dating is a weird thing. It went basically nowhere for me and I gave up after about a year. I moved to a new place and didn't know anyone so thought this might be interesting. However you end up only meeting people one-on-one. Nobody wants to invite someone they met online to go out in a group of friends. Everyone feels weird about it. So, it was an awful way to build a circle of friends in a new place. Expect that you will only get responses about 1/10 of the time. The ratio of guys to girls on these sites is terrible. Also guys will have to write people, often. You have to work hard at it.

Lastly, work on your profile. Most profiles are shit. Pay attention to what you like and dislike in other profiles, and continue to improve yours. Chances are it will suck at the start, but will get better. Also get a good picture of yourself. It's important.

From a generation raised by women... by Associate · 2004-09-29 15:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

My suggestion is to not let others, ie your friends and family, dictate to you what you should be doing socially. My friends collectively concern themselves more with my singleness than I do. I know my mother prays for her heathen son to find a nice Christian girl. They think it's a big deal that I've been single for so long, and I'm sure they think I'm getting desperate. Yet one even said I don't look desperate. I actually love not having to answer to anyone about where I am or what I'm doing. Even with the most casual relationship, this tension is apparent. I'm not saying don't 'get married' or 'stay away from women, they're all gold diggers'. Make up your own mind about what you want.

--
Someone hates these cans.

My eHarmony Experience by Orion · 2004-09-29 16:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

I already posted that I don't think eHarmony is right for this particular person, but perhaps it'll work for someone else. So here's my experience with it, so far.

First, you fill out a *very* long questionare. Once that was done ( over an hour ), it came back and said it had no matches for me. That's pretty depressing. I gradually expanded the search parameters (there are a few things, such as location, that you can control)... before long I had eHarmony telling me there was no one anywhere in the world for me! I had always suspected it, but you hate to have a computer confirm it.

About three or four days later, it got a hit. The next day, it got four more hits. I've yet to figure out the algorithm.... it's not rate limiting, but the hits seem to come in batches. Some people just signed up, but others seem to have been there for awhile.

Anyway, I've been a member since June, and have gotten over 50 hits with it. Of those 50, only 5 have I dismissed right away. Most of the rest never respond to me (if you take the questionaire, you show up as a match, but can't communicate unless you pay the money. No doubt a lot of the never-responders are people who aren't interested enough to pay).

I've actually communicated with only four people from the system, and only gone on any dates with one of them. It's too early to say how that's going... :)

For me, it works. I'm not the sort of person who wants to date casually... I'm not going to go out with someone just to have a date on Saturday night. If I'm going out with someone, it's because I'm really interested in them, or at least interested in becoming more interested.

I'm not sure I agree with all the tenants of eHarmony... I think they are more interested in creating "stable" relationships then they are in "good" relationships. Their argument would probably be that they can do the "stable" with statistics, and it's up to the people to decide on the "good". Maybe that's fair.

Re:My eHarmony Experience by nusratt · 2004-09-30 06:27 · Score: 2, Informative

"I'm not sure I agree with all the tenants of eHarmony"

tenants != tenets

sorry, can't help myself, and some people recognize that i'm not just trying to be an asshole or embarass people.
Re:My eHarmony Experience by angeles13 · 2004-09-30 06:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

My eHarmony experience was not terrible, but not great either. As another posted noted, I think location is part and parcel with the success of eHarmony. After 6 months, I had only one match that seemed to be progressing, until the coversations time. That is where it fell apart.

Right now, I am using Match.com. I have had better succes with this one. I've gone out on several dates with different guys yeah, I am one of the few /. females here.

Best advice that I can give as a woman -- be honest in your description and your profile. I don't want to recall how many guys I have caught in lies or misinformation about themself. For someone that is shy or has difficulty in public spaces meeting people, then yes, the online dating does make it easier to find someone.

Read the profiles of the women you wish to go out with. On Match, they also have a personality profile very similar to eHarmony. I don't think the algorithims are the same. What I do like about Match.com over eHarmony is the ability to do my own searches.

oh -- and yes my /. name is my sign on name on Match.

--
design is art - art is design

Free is better by drewbradford · 2004-09-29 16:08 · Score: 2, Informative

www.orkut.com
and
www.okcupid.com

For friends or dating.

Read the ladder theory first by bretharder · 2004-09-29 16:12 · Score: 3, Funny

Read the ladder theory first

"The ladder theory is a theory of adult male/female interaction.
It has its basis in many years of sociological field testing.
It was first conceptualized in 1994 in Exeter, CA.
My acknowledgements to Jared Whitson for his role in formalizing the theory"

Three years experience... by singularity · 2004-09-29 16:13 · Score: 4, Informative

I have had a profile up on a Spring Street Networks affiliate. I signed up through Nerve.com about three years ago. That means I have had a profile up on that site longer than most other people.

Springstreet handles the personals for a billion sites, including boston.com, the Onion, Fark, and others.

I have gone on about a dozen "dates" during that time, and met some really cool people. I dated a couple for over three months. Springstreet does cater to a somewhat older crowd than your typical Yahoo! personals. It also has a wide variety, since it pulls from so many sites.

I also have a profile on okcupid.com. It is a little more cheesy, but... I have met a few people off of there. More of them are going for "online penpals", to some degree.

Some suggestions: As a male, you have to really work to set your profile apart from others. Be funny, be original. Look at a bunch of ads and see what catches your eye. Look through both males and females. Copy that. Change it regularly. Quantity is good.

PUT UP A PICTURE. Make it a normal headshot, nothing too strange.

BE HONEST! If you are planning on ever meeting these people, they will figure out what is true and not very quickly. Also, honesty helps make your profile even more appealing. It makes you more human, and more approachable.

Read through personals. Read a lot of them before you ever write to someone. Figure out what you like and what you do not like.

When you start writing to someone, comment on their profile. Ask them questions about it. Usually after about 4-5 days of conversing online (usually via email), I will suggest meeting in person. Suggest going out for coffee, at a public location. Make them feel safe. Do not have a first meeting be too involved - dinner might be too much commitment to someone they have never met. Maybe miniature golf. Something where you are able to talk - a movie is not a good idea.

DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY DISMISS ANYONE! if someone writes you, take the courtesy of writing back. I always wait until I meet them in person before making my final decision. Some people just go not come across well online.

BE PATIENT! I have responded to a ton of people, and had a ton of people respond to me (I was a "featured personal of the day" on boston.com one weekend. Got about eight responses in as many hours). A lot of times they do not pan out. The emails stop, or the first meeting is awkward, or... Get used to rejection. Remember - practice makes perfect! Each time I meet a new person for the first time, it is easier than the last. I am now pretty conformable with it, and I am comfortable when I know it is not going well.

[Oh, and I met one person this past weekend. It did not go really well. I am meeting one person tomorrow for the first time (we first started talking back in June!), and another one this Saturday. That is right, I am single again!]

--
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman

What's with the editors? by GOD_ALMIGHTY · 2004-09-29 16:27 · Score: 3, Funny

They forgot to put the Monty Python foot icon on this story.
Asking /. for advice on getting laid? What, are you new here?

Seriously though, who put you up to this? Shouldn't you have waited till late March to submit this?

--
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me

ballroom dancing by Parsec · 2004-09-29 16:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

See if your local university has a ballroom dance club or other strongly coed hobby you could pick up. It'll get you first-hand social experience with the opposite sex. I wouldn't use it as a pool of potential mates (that's just not the right frame of mind to go into it), but it should expand your social circle.

Stick to jacking off... by bergeron76 · 2004-09-29 16:58 · Score: 4, Funny

Seriously.

[no pun intended]

It's virtually impossible to find a girl that will put up with a man that does what he want's when he wants (translation: online gaming, working late, etc).

In the beginning, ALL WOMEN are very considerate and "understanding" of your work/play habits. However, as the relationship [inevitably] matures (aka, after the first 6 months), they will begin to pull in the reigns. I've gone into every relationship I've had thinking, "I'm not going to let this one be like the last one; I'm going to call the shots, and do what I want to do; and when I want to do it.".

However, here's the cold hard reality: I will be probably be married within 12 months and my freedom(s) will be gone forever.

Seriously, much like many other geeks, I'm not sure how I let things get to this point. You enter a relationship knowing exactly how things are going to happen, however, within a few months you find yourself fighting tooth and nail just to have a few hours for goofing-off, gaming, etc. My girl gives me plenty of space, and I love her more than anything on the planet - I wouldn't change it for anything...

... however ...

... take my advice: jerk off alone [or with friends], buy a hooker every now and then, but don't, don't, don't, get your heart wrapped up in a girl. No matter how strong you are going into the relationship, you will NOT be able to maintain it, and you'll ultimately become a slave to the vagina.

Disclaimer: Sweetie, if you're reading this, I'm just kidding. hehe.

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

Re:Stick to jacking off... by Elsebet · 2004-10-01 08:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

My uncle and his girlfriend of 28+ years (as long as I've been alive) have what I consider to be the ultimate relationship. They live and work separately yet are together more days out of the week than not. They each keep their own home, pay their own bills, etc. Every event they show up together and just seem comfortable and happy to be around each other rather than scurrying to opposing corners to bitch about each other.

If only I could convince the current live-in boyfriend, I'd opt for that style over marriage any day. Granted I don't want kids, that would complicate such an arrangement. :)

Coupling just seems to mash identities together instead of simply blending them slightly and allowing the individual to remain thus, yet augmented by the the partner.

--
Sacré-bleu! Where is me mama?

Don't. Just don't. by Yaztromo · 2004-09-29 18:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

Online dating has been one of the most dehumanizing processes I've ever been through. And I used to be in the military.

First things first -- unless you look like a movie star and are super rich, and spend your time jet setting around the world, resign yourself to spending a good deal of money on online dating now. Most dating sites are "controlled" by a subset of women who don't need to spend any money because every Tom, Dick, and Harry is using their credits to contact them. They won't spend a whole lot of time looking for you, because they don't need to. You'll be in a darwinian struggle with a pile of other guys, and if you're not picture-perfect, your not going to get that date you need to show them your personality.

Also remember there are sometimes very good reasons why some of the women you'll meet online are single. I've wound up dating two women who were out patients from psychiatric institions. Now I'm not the kind of guy who stigmatizes people with mental illness, and I think they diserve love and support too -- but these women were too unstable to support any form of relationship, and had serious problems they needed to deal with before they could consider any form of stable relationship.

Also remember that the women you do wind up getting in touch with online often feel like they have a lot of other choices, so if you don't wow them and fill their hearts with desire on the very first date, your chances of a second date are virtually nil. Very, very, very few of the women you meet online are going to take the time to really get to know you -- if you don't immediately fit their expectations, most (in my experience at least) aren't going to invest the time to get to know you.

And if you hold any tenents outside societal norm, you're probably already out of the race. Online dating sites give people the ability to search on specific qualities, and if you don't show up in the average search, you're not going to get anywhere. I'm an athiest and a non-drinker (neither of which I enforce on or expect of others, BTW). My profile doesn't tend to get too many hits (more for the latter than the former, sad to say). I actually had one woman walk out on a date with me when I told her I was an athiest (the site I use doesn't have a selection in their religion combo box for "athiest" -- the closest is "non religious").

(I really hate to pick on so many women as I seem to have done so in this post. I can only guess that many men on online dating sites are the same -- but I don't date men, so I have no experience with their foibles. What few dates I have been on over the years I've been on online dating sites have usually shared their previous experiences, and one common theme with them is meeting men who are nothing like they claim, especially in the looks department).

Remember as well that you're going to be competing with a lot of people who are lying about themselves to make themselves sound better than they are. You can do the same thing -- but most women aren't going to date you again if/when they discover your dishonesty. Still, you're competing with the geekoid down the street who claims he looks like Mel Gibson and Tom Cuise combined, and that makes it exceedingly difficult for you to compete if you're truuthful (and, presumably, don't look like Mel Gibson and/or Tom Cruise).

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter over my experiences. I quit online dating for a long time, but after leaving the military recently signed back on, just to see if things had changed. I'm sad to say that, based on my experience these past few months, they haven't. Now I'm just a bitter old coot nobody would want to date anyway who hangs around /. telling whomever will listen him sad and loney online dating tale :).

Yaz.

Great site for desperate women: by Solder+Fumes · 2004-09-29 18:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Here ya go, http://www.meet-an-inmate.com/. Some of those chicks are cute! At least they were before they went in! Some are getting out in a few months, wait outside the gate with a bouquet of roses and she'll be yours forever. Or at least until your computer gets pawned for crack.

Really good dating advice... by dmayle · 2004-09-29 18:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm posting here on Slashdot, so obviously my sources of credibility are a little bit shot from the beginning, but hang with me on this, because not only is this good advice, but when you listen to it, you'll realize that it's good advice.

Back when I was 12, I had a crush on a girl in my class, but, like many of you here, I was shy, and embarrassed. Also, at the time, I was a little overweight. (Okay, more than a little ;) ) I had a friend who was cool, and definitely more on the 'in' side of things, and I told him about liking her.

At that point, he told me the most useful dating advice I've ever heard, from then, and up till now. He said, "Ask her out. What's the worse she could say? 'No.'" I've found this to be the key to successful dating, and I'll explain why.

All of the guys who are having trouble dating are like school kids who can't ride a bike, but see other people riding bikes and really want to. The problem is, they're all so afraid of getting skinned knees, that they never even bother to give it a chance. Just like any difficult undertaking, there will always be a chance of getting a little hurt, but, when it comes right down to it, skinned knees aren't the end of the world, and neither is the word 'No'.

So, next time you're out on the street, or at a bar, pool hall, etc., and you see someone you find attractive, walk over to them and ask for their phone number. You know what they'll say? 'No.' But keep doing it for awhile, and you'll soon find that you're a little more comfortable with it, and it doesn't hurt so much. Keep doing it, and you'll learn how to present yourself so she/he is interested, which opens up the dating possibilities.

Doing well with regards to dating doesn't mean you never get hurt, and it doesn't mean you're always successful, but if you get out there and keep trying, you'll meet some really cool people (and some not so cool ones), and you'll end up meeting the woman/man of your dreams. (And sometimes just the woman/man of your dreams for that night ;) ) Good luck!

Easiest ways to meet women.. by spineboy · 2004-09-29 18:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

Go to parties - have your male friends bring their women friends from work and vise versa - that way you avoid the whole "Don't sh*t where you eat" thing.
Join a band - that's good for a number or two per show you play out. This worked very well for me. The success of Billy Joel, Lyle Lovett and Ric Ocasek should provide enough incentive.
Adult education classes - Don't take ANYTHING geek related - that's why you're having trouble in the first place. Take art history - it'll make you more well rounded.
Practice makes perfect, after MANY failures you'll find out what works for you. Always hit on the best looking women in the place - women like confidence. You'll get shot down, but do you really care what some stranger thinks - you shouldn't, so get over it and don't be embarrassed.

Make it a rule that you attempt to get a number EVERYTIME you go out at night - no excuses. Even if she's only a 5 or 6, she may have friends who are a 8,9 or a 10 that you can meet later on if you stay friends. Work out your moves on the low stress situation with the 5 or 6 so that when it really counts, you'll be ok.
Have fun!

--
..........FULL STOP.

Re:Easiest ways to meet women.. by russint · 2004-09-29 22:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Even if she's only a 5 or 6, she may have friends who are a 8,9 or a 10 that you can meet later on if you stay friends. Work out your moves on the low stress situation with the 5 or 6 so that when it really counts, you'll be ok.

I actually dont feel that 10 year olds are mature enough for me :(

--
^^
Re:Easiest ways to meet women.. by Elsebet · 2004-10-01 08:19 · Score: 2, Funny

I cannot advocate this strategy enough. Surely you will gain the adoration of many 9's when they discover your clever ruse with the 5.

Also be sure and make public your ratings to women around you, nothing says classy quite like it.

--
Sacré-bleu! Where is me mama?

I failed the eHarmony personality test. by Inominate · 2004-09-29 19:02 · Score: 3, Funny

Seriously. They offered me a refund saying they couldn't help me.

Overrated advice by Roman_(ajvvs) · 2004-09-29 20:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

From what you're saying, you spend your time dealing with the 'lower end of the scale', with regards to the effects of online dating.
Because you deal with troubled relationships for work, then you're seeing a higher proportion of failures than successes. Would someone go to a doctor to declare themselves 100% fit (besides hypochondriacs obviously)?

I still agree that there are sites which only serve to push porn, prostitutes and phoneys, but if you find a site that's good and you make the effort to do something, I see that as a positive step.

If personal ads and dating services truly didn't work then why are they still around? There are too many positive stories to simply discount it as a misleading direction. It's not the only by any means, and there are a number of other non-site-related options discussed in this thread, but online dating is no less or no more effective than anything else. It's partly a stigma issue that we're still not certain what the effects are.

--
click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.

Re:Overrated advice by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-09-30 01:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

From what you're saying, you spend your time dealing with the 'lower end of the scale'

Actually, no. But I realized my post would be long enough, so I didn't go into detail. I won't go into what I do part-time, other than to say that it's work I love, and even though my own business does well, I still enjoy my part-time job. I see people in good relationships, but I've seen the same patterns over and over from Internet daters and personal ad daters. I've seen patterns in my real life that indicate the patterns are "normal". For example, I used to be in a singles group that was made up of average to above average people, in regards to intelligence (a big part of the montlhy gatherings involved discussion of current events and/or relationship issues -- it wasn't just a meat market), and people there who had tried web sites or personal ads found a lack of success in generally the same percentage of others I worked with.

If personal ads and dating services truly didn't work then why are they still around?

Because they make money. Because there are always people who can't find a date or sex partner and they're willing to try anything other than honestly risking a relationship. Because there are more people everyday who are getting old enough to use them and are willing to pay to take a chance. Because there are more newly single people every day (from divorce or whatever) who haven't dated in so long they think they can use personals or websites to special order the perfect match and get it without any effort (you'd be surprised of how much of this I see).

Dating sites offer a shot at romance and/or sex. There will always be millions of people willing to pay for that, even if they haven't heard everyone raving about them.

Re:tweak??? by KDan · 2004-09-29 20:43 · Score: 2, Funny

Relationships are too important to be taken seriously.

Daniel

--
Carpe Diem

Don't knock single parents by Silver+Sloth · 2004-09-29 20:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

Just because someone is a single parent doesn't make them inelligable for the human race, neither does being divorced for that matter. However being a single parent does limit your social time and mean that you want to maximise the potential outcome of any date. Hence a reliance on on-line or other dating services. As to all desparate to get married - isn't this the oldest cliche in the book, the myth that all women want a stableand secure relationship whereas all men just want a quick shag. Whist this myth is patently untrue and unfair it does have a basis in reality and would be nearer the truth with those chosing dating services. At the end of the day you have to remember that the people you meet through ANY means will have their own agenda.

--
init 11 - for when you need that edge.

It isn't perfect... by Anti_Climax · 2004-09-29 22:39 · Score: 2, Informative

But check out www.okcupid.com. It's free for all, so you don't have the imbalance you see with pay sites.

They perpetually test your personality, and provide you with a list of likely matches in your area. Dating isn't the primary focus, but for your purposes it should do nicely.

Spend a few days answering the matching questions and browsing through the profiles of people in your area, you'll find some girls to hang out with in no time.

--
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.

okcupid.com by blackcoot · 2004-09-29 23:03 · Score: 4, Informative

try http://okcupid.com/, it's at least free and (in my experience at least) pretty decent at finding people. it's kinda quirky, kinda funny, and they at least explain their matching rationale. they start with a mbti-esque personality profile which takes a while to fill out. after that, you're free to answer as many questions as you want to. answering questions works like this: you choose 1) your answer, 2) what acceptable answers for your match would be, and 3) how important their answer is to you. this all gets mushed together and they come out with two scores. you choose if you want people ranked by how compatible you are as friends or as lovers/dating material. also, if you don't like the questions that are asked, you can ask some of your own.

Re:okcupid.com by ClickNMix · 2004-09-30 01:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Since it's all math based at the core, and you can see how and why you are getting the results, I would think this would appeal to alot of slashdot folks, some of it's a bit silly, and it doesn't take it's self very seriously on the surface, but digging deeper there is a really nifty system running it all.

--
I saw the light at the end of the tunnel... But it was just someone with a flashlight bringing more work.

I've found eHarmony to be the best one out there. by Cherveny · 2004-09-30 01:03 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm an athiest myself, and got matched to someone quite agnostic.

I have been amazed at who I was matched with at eHarmony. I had the most compatible matches of any service I have ever tried. In fact, I'm now engaged to a match I made over eHarmony.

Forcing you to go through the personality tests and multiple choice questions before you actually get to meet the person really helps ensure the person you meet at the other side of the process will be of a similar way of thinking to yo.

--
--- It's not my fault this post looks redundant. I just type too slow.

speed dating by caliente3 · 2004-09-30 01:19 · Score: 2, Informative

Online dating is a waste of time. You spend a lot of time trading emails for very little payoff.

Try speed dating. You get to talk face-to-face and decide who you want to date. See 8minutedating.com, rapiddating.com, hurrydate.com, etc.

I have found this to be very successful. It took me about a half a dozen tries with varying degrees of success to get the hang of it, but I eventually reached the point where I can make a love connection about half the time (where "love" = in bed by the third date). I coached a buddy of mine through it who hadn't been laid in two years, and after 10 events, he now has three regular maters.

The key is to be real, genuine, relaxed and self-confident. That doesn't come naturally--like any other skill (programming, engineering, athletics, public speaking, etc.), it has to be developed and practiced. The woman has to see you as safe, interesting and attractive, otherwise you will go no where.

For more tips and coaching, see steelballs.com. You can learn everything you need to know there.

Good "luck".

Re:Maybe you have a suggestion by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-09-30 02:49 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm not a psychologist. I taught emotionally disturbed teens. That included being qualified to give a lot of tests for learning abilities, IQ Tests (not that IQ tests are actually worth while, but you get a lot of other info that tells you a lot about the person than just an IQ number), and a few other tests. Added to that, I had to be able to understand and use the results of a good deal of other tests, which also included becoming familiar with the testing methods used, as well as the tests. (If you stay in some types of residential treatment for a long time, you have no choice but to learn the whole thing, take extra classes, and sometimes add another degree.)

Most of the tests in the magazines you've seen are simple tests that I'm sure you've noticed are almost what is often called "no shit research." It's the kind of stuff the gov. spends millions on and comes to a conclusion (like "pet owners have fun playing with their pets") and everyone hears the results and says, "No shit!" A lot of the tests in mags are more to appeal to a point of view than to be valid.

While a lot of people call it pop psychology, you might want to look into the Myers-Briggs test. I've found versions online that you can take for free. It breaks down everyone into 4 general and 16 specific personality types. It's not about who is compatible with whom, but it does give you an interesting insight into different types of personalities and how other people think -- which helps with communication.

This guy is right by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-30 03:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Just about four years ago, after 12 years of absolutely zero success with dating (meeting people online or offline) I gave up completely on dating. I decided to focus my energies on advancing my career instead, since at least there I knew my efforts would pay off.

In the ensuing four years I have met a few women that I like enough that I would have asked them out if I hadn't sworn off dating. I even briefly toyed with taking another shot at dating, but my willpower held. All I had to do to convince myself it was a bad idea was mentally review the 12-year string of failures I once optimistically referred to as a "love life."

These days when I get lonely and want something resembling female affection, I head for a strip club. At least there, the terms are clearly defined and nobody has any illusions about what is or isn't going to happen-- I talk to the stripper for a while, buy her a drink or two and then I get to see some T&A (instead of getting the "I like you as a friend" speech like I did when I was dating). And strippers stop loving you when you run out of $20s, not at some arbitrary point for reasons that will never truly be known to you.

And yes, I AM bitter about my dating experiences, and if anyone reading this had been put through the same shit I was, you'd be the same way.

It can work well, if done right. by Abraxis · 2004-09-30 04:35 · Score: 4, Informative

Firstly, I should disclaim that I'm not the "dating" type -- when I'm on the prowl, it's for a "relationship" -- so the following may or may not apply to you if you're more of a casual dating type. Also this is coming from the perspective of a straight guy -- the experience for other demographic may very widely.

Secondly, my online dating resume: Currently living with my girlfriend of two years (definately not too distant future fiance -- just a timing thing) who I met through match.com. Had several other longer term and relationships with women I met online through such services. Also have had relationships that started "in real life" (we met at the rock concert type stories). My honest opinion is that it really doesn't matter how you make initial contact with somebody -- once you've met a person, the circumstances under which you happened to have come in contact are pretty irrelivant.

Anyway, first some observations:

1) Meeting people online is mainstream these days -- there's a perception that there's a social stigma, and that only freaks meet people online -- but I found both of these, while they may have been true in the past, to no longer hold much water. You definately don't have to make an excuse as to why you've resorted to looking online -- if done correctly, it's one of the best ways to get exposed to a large pool of people in a short amount of time -- and the more people you come in contact with, the greater chance that you'll bump into somebody compatible.

2) My own observation, and confirmed over and over again by women I know who use online singles sites: The experience for women on these sites is radically different from men. Women get TONS of messages from men. So to get a reply you really have to make yourself stand out. The good news is that most of the contact the women receive are either cut and pasted blurbs that some guy sends to a ton of women, from guys that come across as sleazeballs just looking to get laid, or otherwise just generally undesireable messages. Guys on the other hand generally very rarely get messages unless they initiate the contact.

So advice (based on my own experience, and the experience of women who I met online, or friends I know who look for relationships online):

* Your online profile is VERY important. As a guy, it isn't likely to get many people to contact you on its own, but it's vital for making yourself stand out from others when you contact somebody and want to hear back from them -- take the time to really describe who you are as much as possible, and include the things that make you different from other people -- write with a voice that shows your personality, and be honest (but leave out unnecessary self criticism). Everybody says post a picture -- but I think I've had just as much success either way. I think that most cases where having a picture posted would make a difference as to whether you get a reply or not, it's probably not a person something would work out with anyway.

* Be picky about who you contact. You're going to have to spend a significant amount of time preparing a message to them (see below) if you want a response, so find somebody who's profile really interests you and inspires you to write something interesting to them. Also want to try to find people who look like they're interested in somebody like you -- If all somebody talks about is they're love of the outdoors, and you never leave the city-- then you're probably not going to have a lot of luck. You'll server yourself well trying to find profiles that stand out from the generic ones (you'll learn the generic ones pretty quick).

* When you contact somebody, take the time to REALLY write them or your changes of getting a reply are small. Don't just tell somebody that you "liked their profile"-- tell them WHY, what about them interested you-- and be sincere. Also, tell them why you think that they might like you... not generic stuff, but specific things about you that seem to fit who thi

Re:Don't. Just don't. by HeyLaughingBoy · 2004-09-30 05:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter over my experiences

I'm saying this in the most polite manner I can, but if you come across in your personal ad the way you did in that post, it's no wonder you had such bad experiences.

I'm no Adonis. Sure, I was in a bit better shape when I was single, but looks really don't mean much, either in meatspace or online and I met more than my share of fun, attractive, lusty women. One of them I couldn't live without, so I married her.

It took me most of my life to figure this out, but dating is all about attitude. Not looks, not money, not fame. Project a confident, self-assured attitude and it's amazing how differently the world responds to you.

Don't pay a dime by Rude+Turnip · 2004-09-30 05:25 · Score: 2

There are lots of girls in your area on:

1. your college's Unix network (who, finger and talk are all you need to meet girls) (personal score: 2)

2. IRC: become a regular on a channel or two (personal score: 4)

3. Is Yahoo Personals still free? (personal score: 2)

4. ivisit...just buy a decent webcam (personal score 1)

The most important thing to keep in mind is to not be in "desperately seeking" mode, just be yourself.

--
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!

25 Tips for Edating by rjnagle · 2004-10-01 06:06 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually I know a lot about this subject even though I haven't yet met Ms. Right. I run a relationship weblog called Unsolved Heart which covers these sort of relationship issues.

One of my essays, 25 Tips for Edating is probably helpful.

YOu should check out edatereview for inside tips (and a fun laugh).

Postscript: one reason I decided to give up on edating is that it's frustrating to get such a miserable response rate. Also, I had a programming project that has been occupying all my time as of late. That's the typical geek life for you.

--
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston

Good Lord, no!! by Scorchio · 2004-10-01 06:32 · Score: 2, Funny

You've got to warn everyone and tell them! Women is made of people! You've got to tell them! Women is people!

Ask Charlton Heston.

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