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Open Source: Facts and Figures

Eloquence writes "Much of the debate about GNU/Linux and open source is dominated by rhetoric rather than facts. David Wheeler has just released a new version of his "paper" (which, at 440,000 characters, is more of an e-book now) 'Why Open Source Software / Free Software (OSS/FS)? Look at the Numbers!'. According to David, this paper 'examines market share, reliability, performance, scalability, security, and total cost of ownership. It also has sections on non-quantitative issues, unnecessary fears, OSS/FS on the desktop, usage reports, other sites providing related information, and ends with some conclusions.' May come in handy when talking to your boss about Linux."

28 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. good... by Bin_jammin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this seems like something that needs the "validation" of print. It would make for a very informative read, clear up a lot of misconceptions, and not suffer from the "I read it on the internet" stigma. People are more likely to believe something if it doesn't glow when they read it.

  2. 440,000 characters?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    More like War and Peace... :p

  3. a 400 meg document by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Funny

    To describe why we don't need a lot of rhetoric to support linux.

    I know "irony" isn't the correct word to use, but I don't feel like thinking of the right one.

    To summarize: Some blowhard likes linux and wont shut up about it

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:a 400 meg document by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      i think you mean 400k. 400,000 characters.

      Unless each "character" is a 1k chinese pictogram image or something

    2. Re:a 400 meg document by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think that he's just assuming that it's in MS Word format.

  4. At the end of the day... by angst7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I dont need 440,000 words, and neither do most others. I use Linux because it makes me feel happy. And I feel like I'm in control.

    That said, kudos to the wordy crowd too.

    --
    StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
    1. Re:At the end of the day... by Nos. · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem that a paper like this might help solve is convincing others in a corporate/government environment that there are viable alternatives. Only a couple years ago a co-op student was considering writing his paper on Linux vs. Microsoft and wanted to know if he could ask me some questions (being the only Linux guy in the office). I gave him a lot of information and some links. When he presented the idea of the paper and his initial research, the dean laughed at him. The student was told that any competent 3rd or 4th year CS student should be able to crack a Linux box.

      If this kind of attitude and mis conceptions exist in University CS departments, how do you expect our managers and directors to have a realistic view of Linux and OSS in general?

    2. Re:At the end of the day... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are plenty of people who are clever enough to have found something that makes them feel happy and pay the bills at the same time. It's not an either/or situation.

  5. why indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    why indeed. look at these numbers. i'll no doubt me modded down as a troll or something but when the linux community can make a powerful desktop thats not SLOWER than windows2k/xp then i will switch.

    Windows XP: 233 MHZ 64MB min, 300 MHZ 128MB recommended

    Xandros: PII 64MB min, 450 MHZ 128MB recomended
    Mandrake: 64MB min, 128MB recommended
    Fedora Core: PI 192MB min, 400 MHZ 256MB recommended
    SUSE: 128MB min, 256MB recommended
    Sun Java System: 266 MHZ 128MB min, 600 MHZ 256MB recommended
    Turbolinux 10F: 1GHZ 512MB recommended
    Linspire: 128MB min, 800 MHz 256MB recommended

    1. Re:why indeed by sqlrob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, try each on that 300 MHz 128 MB and see what is best.

      Most software I've seen on Windows severely underestimates "recommended", and I'm assuming Windows itself does the same.

    2. Re:why indeed by rxmd · · Score: 4, Interesting
      So, try each on that 300 MHz 128 MB and see what is best.
      Been there, done that. I had Debian unstable alongside Windows XP on a Thinkpad 240 with 128, later 192 MB of RAM.

      XP was workable; it didn't break any speed records, but it was OK to work with.

      Debian was workable only after I kicked KDE off the hard drive and went for an slim X setup with Ion as window manager. With Ion it was working OK, as long as I refrained from using Qt and GTK applications at the same time. But then, I wouldn't want to force Ion on an inexperienced user.
      --
      As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
    3. Re:why indeed by BoomerSooner · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why?

      You can get a 2.4GHz machine for $350 Dell

      Who cares if it runs on 1997 hardware? I want it to run well on todays hardware.

    4. Re:why indeed by fitten · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depends on what you install. I feel sorry for you if you install Linux on that and try to use KDE or Gnome. We couldn't even get Mandrake 9.2 to install on a machine with 64M because the installer crashed repeatedly. I've found that I need a machine with 256M to run KDE or Gnome at a non-frustrating speed for the GUI. I had a P3-450 w/ 384M for a while running Mandrake 9.2 w/ KDE and it was usable but not very fast. The same machine running Windows ran fine. I suspect that a bit of it was video card support though.

      In any case, I've found that lately, most Linux distros (with GUI) to require the same or greater resources to have a similar experience to Windows (not waiting for redraws and such). This didn't used to be the case. 100% of my job is developing on Linux and has been for a year now and my Linux roots go back to pre-1.0 kernel days so I've played around with it a bit.

  6. No usability or features? by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "this paper 'examines market share, reliability, performance, scalability, security, and total cost of ownership'."

    Cant help but notice that usability and features aren't listed. There's a reason I still use Photoshop. Its features and ease of use make it worth the price.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:No usability or features? by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Best guess I can make is that "usability" and "features" are too subjective to comment on. At least with the other categories, you can generate some hard numbers based on records and tests instead of opinions.

      =Smidge=

  7. Open source is great and all... by scaaven · · Score: 4, Insightful
    but where is the financial incentive for programmers? I love open source, and even though programmers contribute to the greater good of the world, how do you survive? I guess it's just one of those questions I never really got.

    I work in a small medical device company writing java, and I could not imagine them using my software for free -- I need to eat too.

    --
    I know I'm going to be modded up on this
    1. Re:Open source is great and all... by Yaztromo · · Score: 5, Informative

      You had to post this just as I got mod points, and was going to start using them in this forum...:).

      I find what you have to say very topical, because I was in talks earlier today with an MD who holds a chair at a west-coast University who is interested in contracting me out to write Open Source code based on my Open Source, pure-Java jSyncManager Project.

      Oh the parallels :). This project is receiving some public funding, so the doctors and developers currently involved are striving to use as much OSS as possible, and to release their custom code pieces as Open Source software. They want to contract my services to help them integrate handheld systems into their groupware/messaging applications they're building.

      As such, it looks like I'm about to start getting paid to write Open Source Java code for the medical field. Yay for me!

      Yaz.

    2. Re:Open source is great and all... by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      . . .even though programmers contribute to the greater good of the world. . .

      And that is one of the often overlooked benefits of Open Source(tm) software, people actually will pay you to write it if it contributes to the greater good of the world.

      What they won't often do is pay you to write piece of uneeded and ill conceived piece of dreck just because the company needs something new to sell.

      YMMV, of course, but I don't enjoy tossing rocks over a wall then tossing them back again simply as an excuse to earn wages. I'd rather flip burgers than write that kind of software, because at least I'd be contributing the greater good. People have to eat. They don't have to have software that they only bought because some salesman who thinks he has to do it to eat convinces them they need it.

      There are better ways to run an economy than filching money from each other's pockets.

      And sometimes, here and there, people don't get to do what they want, but rather what is needed. Good people actually like it that way.

      KFG

    3. Re:Open source is great and all... by abreauj · · Score: 5, Insightful
      but where is the financial incentive for programmers? I love open source, and even though programmers contribute to the greater good of the world, how do you survive? I guess it's just one of those questions I never really got. I work in a small medical device company writing java, and I could not imagine them using my software for free -- I need to eat too.

      Think of programming as necessary infrastructure for a business, not as its core business. Businesses have a lot of costs that aren't related to the core business.

      For instance, employees need a place to park their cars when they come to work. Most businesses don't charge their employees to park; they don't consider the employee parking lot as a profit center. And yet, the people who build and maintain the parking lot have to eat too.

      Just because the business doesn't charge its employees money to park, doesn't mean the guy laying down the tar and painting the lines in the parking lot has to work for free. And just because the business makes its software open-source, doesn't mean the programmer that did the work-for-hire won't get paid.

  8. Yeah but... by PincheGab · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Much of the debate about GNU/Linux and open source is dominated by rhetoric rather than facts

    You'll have rhetoric as long as you allow people to make sense out of facts... For example, the same fact (let's say, "source code available to the world") can be interpreted two ways: "More secure because it has been scrutinized by all sorts of people" and "Less secure because it can be scrutinized by every possible hacker."

    What follows is the rhetoric...

  9. Why do people care so much? by BillFarber · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I use OSS and propietary software.
    I've developed both.
    I'm not a disciple of either.
    They both have their place.

    As a wise man once said, can't we all just get along?

    1. Re:Why do people care so much? by gosand · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I use OSS and propietary software. I've developed both. I'm not a disciple of either. They both have their place.

      As do I, although most of what I use is on Linux. That may be hard for Windows people to believe, but it is true. I fire up the Windows box when I want to render videos (tmpgenc) or burn DVDs. That is where the DVD burner is installed. (Although k3b is AWESOME). I wish that Irfanview was available on Linux, it just rocks. I haven't found anything I like as much on Linux.

      As a wise man once said, can't we all just get along?

      Well, that is the kicker. We should all just be able to get along, but then you get proprietary software companies (no names mentioned) that have a heavily vested interest in NOT getting along. The OSS community is more than willing to just get along, but all parties have to be willing.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  10. OSS has definitely produced good language tools by ShatteredDream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't even imagine where the web would be today without Perl, PHP and Python. Perl and Python are excellent CGI languages and PHP 5.0/5.1 is a great substitute for commercial products like ASP.NET in many cases. Small businesses and home users simply don't need all of the wiz bang features of something like ASP/JSP. OSS has definitely stepped in to provide a lot of power to the little guys who want it. Now Mono is rapidly becoming a viable alternative to Microsoft's .NET and Tomcat has been for a long time a very solid basis for J2EE web projects.

    But perhaps the best thing about OSS is that it has helped to return a bit of an "ownership society" to software development. The GPL despite its problems says that it doesn't apply to you if you are just a regular user who isn't going to modify the code and redistribute the changed binaries. For all intents and purposes, you "own" that code until you do something public with it that takes commercial advantage of it without meeting the GPL's requirements. That's a hell of a lot more property rights-centered than a typical industry EULA.

  11. Why is open source usually about OS? by prostoalex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The thing that gets me is how open-source vs closed-source debate is always OS-centric. True, you have Microsoft on one end and Linux OS family is one of the most succcessful open source products, but what's wrong with promoting open-source product on top of Windows platform?

    OpenOffice.org, Mozilla Firefox and many other products off the SourceForge.net have a Windows binary available for download. Windows itself provides great hardware support with almost anything imaginable out there, and has nice OS-level features like fast GUIs and built-in support for burning CDs and what not.

    If you look at a Linux box and a Windows box, the price difference from the vendor is generally $50-60. If you use the computer for 5 years, the cost of Windows is $10-12 a year. What's the incentive to go "free" and deal with ugly fonts, hardware issues and other problems related to Linux nowadays?

    Moreover, promoting open source on Windows nowadays would set the ground for switch to Linux in the future. Guess what - the aforementioned OO, Mozilla and other apps work exactly the same way either with Linux or Windows. Thus a switch to Linux later on would not require such huge re-education costs, since the user lives in app world, not in OS world, and doesn't care whether it's kernel32.dll or kernel.org latest version, that's running on his machine.

  12. Damned Statistics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Numbers exchanged among people are also rhetoric, though clever. Quantative selections and qualitative exaggerations are equally misleading. Debate, as opposed to argument (or mere contradiction, or being hit on the head), requires consensus on facts, or at least values and rationale in evaluating statements. Marketers don't care about consensus, and most purchasers/consumers have a catch-22 with consensus before decision. What really counts is results. Especially because the cost of the switch itself, between any platforms, is so high, only when the benefit of one over the other is easily demonstrable will enough people be convinced to matter.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  13. Re:Yes indeed... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This trend is changing, especially in light of the quick peer review that the Inet offers, and such scandals as the whole CBS faked document issue.

    Remember it took less than a day for REAL document experts to examine and expose the nature of those documents, while it took CBS nearly two full weeks to reach the same conclusion, with a certain person NEVER really able to admit that the documents are forged.

    Personally, I trust the INSTANT peer review of the Inet more than CBSNBCABCCNNFOXMSNBCNYTIMES .... combined. While some of the INFO on the Inet is wrong, it is easily verifiable with alternate resources.

    If your Boss is stil looking for documentation that filters through the publishing channels, then he/she is likely to miss the curve on important issues.

    If they really need a paper version, then PRINT one and hand it to them. Take it to Kinkos and have them Bind it nice and Professional. Help keep your boss on the curve.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  14. ends with what? by eddeye · · Score: 4, Funny
    It also ... ends with some conclusions.'

    You fools! That's exactly what they expect! You can't fight the system playing by their rules! It should end with a tangent. Or an introduction. They'll never see that coming!

    You damned fools, you've played right into their hands! We're doomed, doomed, doomed ...

    --
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
  15. Facts have a date, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll openly admit I didn't RTEFA. Still, through "critical skim" (a frequent management trick), this doesn't seem to be very persuasive.

    GNU/Linux is the #1 server OS on the public Internet (counting by domain name), according to a 1999 survey of primarily European and educational sites
    Interesting -- using a survey prior to the release of Windows 2000, XP, or 2003 server as the basis for trends today. Reading the article critically (as the hypothetical "boss" would), those numbers aren't as significant as the state of the world today. I may be completely ignorant to research turnaround, but doesn't it seem more recent data would be more relevant?

    Consider this one as well:
    GNU/Linux is more reliable than Windows NT, according to a 10-month ZDnet experiment

    How many companies today are deciding between Linux and Windows NT?

    Clearly there are reasons today that companies / governments / users are seriously considering OSS. However, to try to convince through comparison with 5 year old OS is probably not very effective.