Man, that's messed up. That's way worse than the Florida ballot. It's really truly incorrect. At least with half a brain you could figure out the Florida ballot.
Luckily it seems that properly printed ballots have been sent out to replace these incorrect ones...
See the whole ballot
by
waynegoode
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I find it sad that anyone would want to use the straight party ticket (as depicted in the parent's link) and that the ballot even has one. How mindless do you have to be to not even consider each candidate on their own merits rather than just the party to which they belong?
-- Yoda of Borg am I! Assimilated shall you be! Futile resistance is, hmm?
Re:See the whole ballot
by
superyooser
·
· Score: 1
The last time I went to vote there were over 40 positions up for election. Federal and state representatives, judges, justice of the peace, city council, school board, sheriff, county tax assessor, etc., etc. I have no idea who half of those people were, nor do I honestly have the time to research their various qualifications and suitability for the job. The cumulation of all those candidates is simply overwhelming. You HAVE to find the few positions for which you have the most interest and educate yourself about them. For the rest it's simply guesswork.
With straight party voting you are at least given the (semi) guarantee that the person you are voting for approves of the party platform. It's better than a shot in the dark. Sanctimony aside, careful consideration of each candidate for every position is simply not a realistic expectation.
Re:See the whole ballot
by
siriuskase
·
· Score: 1
I've never voted straight party, but I did check into how it works. Obviously, if you choose Democrat, you have elected the Democrat in every position, but then if you go and select someone who isn't a Democrat, that overrides the straight ticket selection. So basicly, it is vote for the Democrat in every race unless I select someone else. It's a default that can be overriden.
-- If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
I can see the bumper sticker now...
by
k4_pacific
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Don't blame me, I voted for
------------------- <==
-- Unknown host pong.
Did the Dems design it?
by
DAldredge
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
Did the DEMS design it? After all they did design the florida one.
Re:Did the Dems design it?
by
ghereheade
·
· Score: 1
Wrong-o Buckeroo,
The ballots are designed by committees of both republicans and democrats. And to make the FLA ballot worse, it was designed in a way that violated FLA state law. So, queue your favorite joke/diatribe here:
* The intellegence of a meeting is inversly proportional to the number people in attendance. * Politician's aren't very smart. If they were, they'd be able to hold down a real honest job. * Neo-con FUD is used to blame democrats for all voting evils even though they conspire to limit access for "third" parties just as much. * Vote straight party line - it's easier than thinking.
those-who-don't-study-history
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
-- *
Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Re:Obviously it is corrupt.
by
PunchSix
·
· Score: 1
Ralph Nader is on the ballot because thousands of people signed petitions indicating they wanted him there. The Nader ticket is currently in court over dems trying to keep him off the ballot despite having met all requirements. http://www.votenader.org/ballot_acc ess/michigan/
If you read through the comments, you'll see info detailing that it has been fixed.
And no, this isn't the same as the 'butterfly ballot' or 'hanging chad' problems. Those were due to the stupidity of the user and a general inability to read and follow fairly simple directions. This is a typographical error.
Still, I bet people will manage to screw up the connecting of an arrow.
Re:It's Fixed.
by
fatmonkeyboy
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Those were due to the stupidity of the user and a general inability to read and follow fairly simple directions.
I hope you're not an engineer.
The one thing I took away from my "User Interface" class in college is that if someone has trouble using something, it's the fault of the designer and not the fault of the user.
I assume you have, at least once, pulled on a door, only to look down and see a big "PUSH" sign on it. A door can (and should) be designed so that you would never try to pull on it in the first place (e.g., don't put anything you can grab on the "push" side).
The same with the Florida ballots in the last election. They were, quite simply, poorly designed. Yes, you can figure them out by looking at them closely and following the directions. That's not the point.
Just as when you walked up to pull on the "PUSH" door, you didn't expect to need to read a sign to use it, the voters didn't expect to need to read the directions in order to punch in the correct hole. So they didn't...
Of course people are going to screw up the connecting of an arrow: that election form has a terrible design.
It is dead obvious that the district head of elections doesn't feel that the election is worth calling in someone with a solid record of excellence in form design.
I suppose that's no surprise. More and more, it looks like the USA doesn't take its elections and democracy seriously. And, no, guys, that's not a troll: it's a fact.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Re:It's Fixed.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I don't agree that the butterfly ballot only hurt stupid people. It was a very confusing ballot. I could see very smart people punching the second hole for the second candidate. Smart people are some of the more careless people I know. That said, being stupid is not a reason to not count someone's vote correctly.
I find it very offensive that anyone would say it's ok that a ballot cheated stupid people out of their votes. Who else do you think it's ok to not count?
You are right about one thing. This mistake was a typographical error, while the butterfly ballot was printed as designed.
the voters didn't expect to need to read the directions in order to punch in the correct hole
Yet these are the same people that will cause another 12 warning stickers (and $500,000,000 in payouts) to be placed on every day items so they don't try to use the snow-blower on the roof or use their crotch to hold boiling coffee or play catch with Jarts.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that stupid. How can we even be sure they knew who they were voting for?
-- You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Let's say there are two way to design something. One way, you pick it up and you know how to use it. It just works...
The other way, unless you read the instructions first you will break it if you try something simple and obvious.
True, the people who broke the second one didn't read all the instructions first (these are the things that require your warning stickers). But why not do it the first way?
There are some things that can not be made simple. But for those things that can be... KISS
Apparently the ballot wasn't tested with random people... but wait! Someone else mentioned that they've been using the same thing in California for 20 years. I don't know if that's true, but I have to think that this style of ballot is not unique to that location in Florida by virtue of the fact that the counting machinery that uses the ballots is probably used in a lot of places.
Here's my theory: If the super-tight election had happened in almost every other state, the same kinds of problems would have shown up.
I don't understand why we can't use the type of ballot we have here in Virginia. It's a letter-sized piece of paper with all the different votes clearly written out and nice little circles for each candidate or choice. You use a black marker to fill them out and then stick them face down into the machine. Simple, easy to read, mechanical counting and a paper trail. What could be easier?
It bothers me that we have to design voting ballots for people who are figuratively, if not literally, retarded. I have a hard time believing there's any kind of intelligent decision-making going on there. Still, this is America and you have a God-given right to be an idiot.
-- You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Worse than the design, is the fact that you don't get to see the names of the electors you're actually voting for. I mean, their vote may be pretty much a foregone conclusion, but I'd like to know who I'm picking just in case.
-- Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
In New York, you don't get the names of the electors on the ballot either, it just says "Electors for" in tiny print above the candidate's name.
I don't know exactly how to find out this information. My first guess would be to call or write your state's Board of Elections. My second guess would be to call or write each statewide party headquarters in your state.
--
----
Open mind, insert foot.
It's a screwed up ballot, BUT....
by
DesScorp
·
· Score: 2, Informative
...please, no consipracy theories. It was a misprint, and it's been fixed. Plus, Bush is the one that didn't have a mark next to his name.
-- Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Re:It's a screwed up ballot, BUT....
by
Sancho
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
But in the event of a recount, where does the vote go? There's a notation for every candidate, it's just shifted down one. People who are going to vote for Bush would probably recognize the problem (since their notation is missing) and vote for the topmost one, which is correct for Bush. People voting for Kerry would not even look for the place to vote for Bush and would just mark the topmost one because it looks like it goes to Kerry.
Re:It's a screwed up ballot, BUT....
by
DesScorp
·
· Score: 1
" But in the event of a recount, where does the vote go? "
It doesn't matter. The misprinted ballots have been recalled.
-- Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Re:It's a screwed up ballot, BUT....
by
Sancho
·
· Score: 1
When discussing whether or not there is some "conspiracy", yes, it does in fact matter.
Re:It's a screwed up ballot, BUT....
by
gumbi+west
·
· Score: 1
Dude, the Kerry people might see that bush doesn't have an arrow (it's right above theirs).
Thik of the people who want to vote for Badnarik and end up getting counted as Peroutka voters!
I mean, to have your irrelevant vote changed on you like that... that's just not a democracy.
I think that design was intend. Well first, the e-voting machines will take care of the Bush-Cheney count, so no need for an arrow there it will just add 65535 votes (unsigned of course) to their ticket on each machine. Second, "congressional" is probably a vote for all the candidates if there's no challengers, simple, I like. Third, it says "vote for not more than one". What if I want to vote for Kerry and Edwards? Definitely it's to confuse the savvy and well informed voter from messing up the election.
Looking back at the Florida butterfly ballot, you can't vote for a write-in candidate (no punch hole). Gary Coleman would be disappointed.
I agree totally. Ever since the first time I saw a ballot with that I thought only idiots would use it. If you look at the candidates and your choice in each race is the same party, that's okay. Just blindly voting for candidates without even knowing who they are hurts democracy.
In the SE, I think it is used mostly by Yellow-Dog Democrats. (They would vote for the Democrat even if it was a yellow dog.) There are a lot of these in Alabama. It's leftover from reconstruction. (Them Republican carpet-baggers!)
My wife has a degree in broadcast communications from a college in Tennessee. As part of one of her classes, she helped the local newspaper conduct a poll. The topic was metro schools (city & county school systems combined), a very non-partisan issue. She had one respondent say, "Whichever is Democrat." She tried to explain that there was not a "Democrat" choice, but the lady insisted, "Whichever is Democrat."
Ballot spell-check
by
joranbelar
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Anyone notice that this ballot has the misspelled phrase "No Party Afiliation" under Nader? Official ballot, and they can't even spell right?;)
osted on Wed, Sep. 01, 2004 Click here to find out more!
Designer of infamous butterfly ballot loses re-election bid
HILARY ROXE
Associated Press
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Palm Beach County Elections Supervisor Theresa LePore, the inventor of the butterfly ballot that became a national joke during the 2000 presidential recount, lost her re-election bid.
With all precincts reporting, challenger Arthur Anderson had 91,134 votes, or 52 percent, while LePore had 85,601 votes, or 48 percent.
Despite the loss, LePore will remain in office until Jan. 3 and will oversee the November election in the county.
LePore spokesman Marty Rogol said a "media blitz" by Anderson supporters over the last week, including appearances by some out-of-state Democratic heavyweights, was partly responsible for her showing.
LePore refused to meet with reporters early Wednesday, but as the polls closed Tuesday she said she was too busy overseeing the counting of ballots to think about her own race.
"I just want to win so I can continue doing the job I love," LePore said.
Anderson said voters remembered the criticism LePore, and by extension their county, received four years ago.
"The public had lost trust in the operation and management of this particular office," Anderson said. "There were too many glitches... people just lost confidence in the voting process."
LePore, 49, has worked in the elections office for more than three decades, and in the top job since 1996. A Democrat when she ran unopposed in the 2000 election, she was angered by statements party leaders made during the recount and had since declared herself independent.
She became the focus of national attention and the subject of death threats in 2000 after some Palm Beach County voters said a confusing butterfly ballot, which listed the names of presidential candidates on opposing pages, led them to mistakenly select conservative third-party candidate Pat Buchanan instead of Democrat Al Gore. The design provided fodder for political cartoonists and late-night comedians. Gore lost the election in Florida to President Bush by 537 votes.
Still reeling from that narrow defeat, Democrats rallied behind Anderson, a professor and former county school board member. Florida U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and Gore's running mate, U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, all stumped for Anderson.
Despite all the trouble in 2000, LePore's supporters pointed during the campaign to more recent history. In 2002, LePore ran a smooth election on new touchscreen voting machines while her counterparts in Broward and Miami-Dade counties again made Florida the punchline of national jokes because of voting problems in the gubernatorial election.
Miami-Dade elections chief David Leahy resigned after being heavily criticized for weeklong delays in tallying the votes and opening precincts hours late. In Broward, Gov. Jeb Bush suspended election chief Miriam Oliphant for incompetence, including opening polls late, never counting absentee ballots and failing to maintain accurate voting rolls. She lost badly Tuesday in an attempt to reclaim her position.
Anderson, 63, has no experience overseeing elections and was criticized during the campaign for failing to pay federal taxes for years. He said the tax problems are being resolved and that his past management positions qualify him for the supervisor's job.
Speaking of a "continuous erosion" in citizens' confidence in the voting process, he said he ran against LePore to protect "the right to have our votes count."
Anderson's chief campaign issue was also Wexler's focus - adding printers to the county's voting machines to ensure a paper trail exists in case of a recount. Wexler has sued LePore and others to add the printers. LePore, who doesn't oppose the printers but thinks they are unnecessary, needed state approval to add the paper trail.
So then, you were wrong above; the "DEMS" did not design it, but rather one official who was a Democrat at one time but had a falling out with the party. In addition, I think it would be stretching it to say that this person was the only person who saw the new design. It was a fatally flawed design, of course; nobody is denying that, but it seems disingenuous to blame it on "the Democrats" (especially when it obviously did not work to their benefit!)
Re:Here are the facts...
by
DAldredge
·
· Score: 1
Why? People on/. all the time blame the GOP for the design. Funny, I do not see you correcting them.
A Democrat
when she ran [...] in the 2000 election
Emphasis mine. Before she ran in that election, she had been a Republican, then an Independant.
-- Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Good thing they don't count absentee ballots
by
quinto2000
·
· Score: 1
[n/t]
-- Ceci n'est pas un post
That's my ballot
by
Piersnica
·
· Score: 2, Informative
That is the ballot I received on September 29th. My congressman said less than 70 affected ballots were mailed out, and the company was printing new ones to be mailed out within a week.
http://www.umich.edu/~mlafler
It may be a small problem, but I feel people should be aware of it, and please make sure to check your ballot carefully when you vote this November.
...that this is mearly a misprint from the printing company?
raise your hand if you have hand misprinted business cards or inivitations. oh, quite a few out there.
-- always mosh clockwise
maybe i'm an arrogent asshole but.....
by
Lehk228
·
· Score: 0
do we really want people too fucking stupid to understand an arrow to be voting in the first place? if there were a way to design an intelligence test that would be unbiased along social and racial lines i would support requiring a test to register to vote, now i wouldn't expect a particularly high intelligence, but at the very least some glimmer of cognitive activity.
-- Snowden and Manning are heroes.
That's why I prefer yellow
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
At that point I'd just take a highlighter and let them figure out who I "intended" to give my vote to.
Seriously, someone actually looked at this and decided it was okay?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Numerous reports state that the company that sent out the ballot already mailed corrections. Also, it appears to be limited in scope.
Man, that's messed up. That's way worse than the Florida ballot. It's really truly incorrect. At least with half a brain you could figure out the Florida ballot.
Luckily it seems that properly printed ballots have been sent out to replace these incorrect ones...
You can see the whole ballot at The Daily Kos.
Don't blame me, I voted for
------------------- <==
Unknown host pong.
Did the DEMS design it? After all they did design the florida one.
... get to repeat it in summer school
Ralph Nader is on there!
How did that happen?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
If you read through the comments, you'll see info detailing that it has been fixed.
And no, this isn't the same as the 'butterfly ballot' or 'hanging chad' problems. Those were due to the stupidity of the user and a general inability to read and follow fairly simple directions. This is a typographical error.
Still, I bet people will manage to screw up the connecting of an arrow.
Worse than the design, is the fact that you don't get to see the names of the electors you're actually voting for. I mean, their vote may be pretty much a foregone conclusion, but I'd like to know who I'm picking just in case.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
...please, no consipracy theories. It was a misprint, and it's been fixed. Plus, Bush is the one that didn't have a mark next to his name.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Looking back at the Florida butterfly ballot, you can't vote for a write-in candidate (no punch hole). Gary Coleman would be disappointed.
I agree totally. Ever since the first time I saw a ballot with that I thought only idiots would use it. If you look at the candidates and your choice in each race is the same party, that's okay. Just blindly voting for candidates without even knowing who they are hurts democracy.
In the SE, I think it is used mostly by Yellow-Dog Democrats. (They would vote for the Democrat even if it was a yellow dog.) There are a lot of these in Alabama. It's leftover from reconstruction. (Them Republican carpet-baggers!)
My wife has a degree in broadcast communications from a college in Tennessee. As part of one of her classes, she helped the local newspaper conduct a poll. The topic was metro schools (city & county school systems combined), a very non-partisan issue. She had one respondent say, "Whichever is Democrat." She tried to explain that there was not a "Democrat" choice, but the lady insisted, "Whichever is Democrat."
Anyone notice that this ballot has the misspelled phrase "No Party Afiliation" under Nader? Official ballot, and they can't even spell right? ;)
Gotta love a party whose campaign platform is largely unconstitutional.
osted on Wed, Sep. 01, 2004
... people just lost confidence in the voting process."
Click here to find out more!
Designer of infamous butterfly ballot loses re-election bid
HILARY ROXE
Associated Press
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Palm Beach County Elections Supervisor Theresa LePore, the inventor of the butterfly ballot that became a national joke during the 2000 presidential recount, lost her re-election bid.
With all precincts reporting, challenger Arthur Anderson had 91,134 votes, or 52 percent, while LePore had 85,601 votes, or 48 percent.
Despite the loss, LePore will remain in office until Jan. 3 and will oversee the November election in the county.
LePore spokesman Marty Rogol said a "media blitz" by Anderson supporters over the last week, including appearances by some out-of-state Democratic heavyweights, was partly responsible for her showing.
LePore refused to meet with reporters early Wednesday, but as the polls closed Tuesday she said she was too busy overseeing the counting of ballots to think about her own race.
"I just want to win so I can continue doing the job I love," LePore said.
Anderson said voters remembered the criticism LePore, and by extension their county, received four years ago.
"The public had lost trust in the operation and management of this particular office," Anderson said. "There were too many glitches
LePore, 49, has worked in the elections office for more than three decades, and in the top job since 1996. A Democrat when she ran unopposed in the 2000 election, she was angered by statements party leaders made during the recount and had since declared herself independent.
She became the focus of national attention and the subject of death threats in 2000 after some Palm Beach County voters said a confusing butterfly ballot, which listed the names of presidential candidates on opposing pages, led them to mistakenly select conservative third-party candidate Pat Buchanan instead of Democrat Al Gore. The design provided fodder for political cartoonists and late-night comedians. Gore lost the election in Florida to President Bush by 537 votes.
Still reeling from that narrow defeat, Democrats rallied behind Anderson, a professor and former county school board member. Florida U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and Gore's running mate, U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, all stumped for Anderson.
Despite all the trouble in 2000, LePore's supporters pointed during the campaign to more recent history. In 2002, LePore ran a smooth election on new touchscreen voting machines while her counterparts in Broward and Miami-Dade counties again made Florida the punchline of national jokes because of voting problems in the gubernatorial election.
Miami-Dade elections chief David Leahy resigned after being heavily criticized for weeklong delays in tallying the votes and opening precincts hours late. In Broward, Gov. Jeb Bush suspended election chief Miriam Oliphant for incompetence, including opening polls late, never counting absentee ballots and failing to maintain accurate voting rolls. She lost badly Tuesday in an attempt to reclaim her position.
Anderson, 63, has no experience overseeing elections and was criticized during the campaign for failing to pay federal taxes for years. He said the tax problems are being resolved and that his past management positions qualify him for the supervisor's job.
Speaking of a "continuous erosion" in citizens' confidence in the voting process, he said he ran against LePore to protect "the right to have our votes count."
Anderson's chief campaign issue was also Wexler's focus - adding printers to the county's voting machines to ensure a paper trail exists in case of a recount. Wexler has sued LePore and others to add the printers. LePore, who doesn't oppose the printers but thinks they are unnecessary, needed state approval to add the paper trail.
[n/t]
Ceci n'est pas un post
That is the ballot I received on September 29th. My congressman said less than 70 affected ballots were mailed out, and the company was printing new ones to be mailed out within a week. http://www.umich.edu/~mlafler It may be a small problem, but I feel people should be aware of it, and please make sure to check your ballot carefully when you vote this November.
...that this is mearly a misprint from the printing company? raise your hand if you have hand misprinted business cards or inivitations. oh, quite a few out there.
always mosh clockwise
do we really want people too fucking stupid to understand an arrow to be voting in the first place? if there were a way to design an intelligence test that would be unbiased along social and racial lines i would support requiring a test to register to vote, now i wouldn't expect a particularly high intelligence, but at the very least some glimmer of cognitive activity.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
At that point I'd just take a highlighter and let them figure out who I "intended" to give my vote to.