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The 2004 Nobel Prize in Physics

azatht writes "The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has decided to award the Nobel Prize in Physics for 2004 "for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction" jointly to David J. Gross, Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, USA, H. David Politzer California Institute of Technology (Caltech), Pasadena, USThe 2004 Nobel Prize in Physics, and Frank Wilczek Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cambridge, USA."

40 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Some quicky info by gowen · · Score: 5, Informative
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    1. Re:Some quicky info by yourmom16 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It has absolutely nothing to do with the normal use of color, except the name. All it is is a quantum number with 3 possible values, which Gell-Mann decided to call red, green, and blue.

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  2. Eat my Karma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
  3. Well . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    This discovery cemented the theory of quantum chromodynamics, which describes the interactions of quarks and other subatomic particles inside the atomic nucleus.

    It also filled a critical remaining gap in what physicists refer to as the Standard Model, the theory that governs physics at the microscopic scale. It accounts for the behavior of three out of nature's four fundamental forces - electromagnetism, the strong force and the weak force, which governs radioactive decay. Which brings us a few step forwards towards the answer of 42.

    1. Re:Well . . . by gowen · · Score: 4, Informative
      It accounts for the behavior of three out of nature's four fundamental forces
      Err, no. QCD accounts for one of the fundamental forces, the strong force. Quarks (and their asymptotic freedom) don't really have anything to do with the electroweak forces, which are carried by W and Z bosons and photons.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    2. Re:Well . . . by Pi_0's+don't+shower · · Score: 4, Informative
      This discovery cemented the theory of quantum chromodynamics...
      Not to be too nit-picky, but it's worth mentioning that their work shows that quantum chromodynamics (QCD) accurately describes the strong force only at HIGH energies. The use of asymptotic freedom, or QCD at large energy scales, agrees very well with experiment. However, the theory does not give reliable predictions in the low-energy (sometimes non-perturbative) regime. To say that QCD is now completely understood ignores this problem, which is the most serious problem left (other than the Higgs) in the Standard Model today. Some possible solutions to the low-energy QCD problem (or the confinement problem) are the people working on Lattice QCD and the people working on the B-T worldsheet formalism. Sorry for the deluge of information, but I thought it was worth pointing out that there is still plenty of work to be done in understanding this theory. And as an interesting aside, even with these three brilliant men and their work, theoretical calculations only agree with experiment to about a 10% level!
  4. Where will this take us ? by mirko · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it some 100% theoretical stuff or will it have technical repercussions in the short term ?

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    1. Re:Where will this take us ? by Gil-galad55 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is of immense importance to the theory of elementary particles, but the forces it governs involve quark interactions, and it is doubtful any technology will explicitly need a model of quark interactions for some time! Then again, I could be shortly eating my shorts...

      --

      To follow knowledge like a sinking star, / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought. ("Ulysses", Tennyson)

    2. Re:Where will this take us ? by tgibbs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it some 100% theoretical stuff or will it have technical repercussions in the short term ?

      Generally, by the time somebody receives the Nobel Prize for a discovery, the "short term" is already over.

    3. Re:Where will this take us ? by daveaitel · · Score: 3, Funny

      Due to, ya know, quantum tunnelling and stuff, some of the atoms in your shorts are, kinda, in your mouth. So technically you already are.

      -dave

    4. Re:Where will this take us ? by Theory+of+Everything · · Score: 5, Informative

      Is it some 100% theoretical stuff or will it have technical repercussions in the short term ?

      I just attended Frank Wilczek's press conference. He was asked this very question. His answer, in short, was "No." In medium, "The are no real-world applications I can think of." In long, "Maybe, someday, it could benefit nuclear power production because we better understand the nucleus. And there are side-benefits: the WWW was developed at CERN, and young people are inspired to science-related careers."

  5. How can you select a couple people anymore..... by Sethseekstruth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It just seems to me,with what little I know of research and physics, that these things are now such large scale enterprises that the awards should actually go to the institions and not the people.

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    1. Re:How can you select a couple people anymore..... by trtmrt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These guys were theorists. For what they came up with they didn't need an army of graduate students and engineers turning bolts on an accelerator. Fortunately there is still some room for people that just know a lot and are smart enough to do discover things by themselves (of course in the context of other people's work).

    2. Re:How can you select a couple people anymore..... by QuantumMajo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good point, but these guys really did pioneer a huge field ... quantum chromodynamics. Which is not interior design for quantum physicists by the way, but how quarks join together to create the particle zoo we have. As good as CERN or SLAC is, for example, without these three guys, the accelerators at those labs would have nothing to do. Many of my friends in high energy physics work at experiments specifically designed to probe the QCD effects that David Gross, David Politzer and Frank Wilczek theorized. So ... should we give the award to the numerous validators or to the first pioneers. I go for the first pioneers. But hey, I am a theorist.

    3. Re:How can you select a couple people anymore..... by footNipple · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It just seems to me,with what little I know of research and physics, that these things are now such large scale enterprises that the awards should actually go to the institions and not the people.

      Why does this comment aggrevate me so? Maybe it's because political correctness has run amok, Maybe it's because the importance of individual acheivement is being marginalized because we don't want others to feel "left out".

      These prizes damned well should be awarded to individuals in recognition of their acheivement. Then, by proxy, their institutions will will receive their due recognition. Just my $.02

    4. Re:How can you select a couple people anymore..... by mmmmmhotpants · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what little I know of research

      At a research university you will have many departments (Physics, Chemistry, Biology). And within those departments you will have many Professors each probably working on few topics, but mostly different from what other Professors are working on (or from a different perspective). So what one lab - The Professor, his post-docs, staff, and grad-students - works on is completely separate than what any one else in the institute works on, ignoring occassional collaborations.

      Furthermore, the research university rarely gives the lab funding for the project. So each Professor is like an independent entrepeneur who needs to find agencies and organizations to fund his or her ideas.

      The institution does receive a lot of glory and capitalizes on it as much as possible. However, its responsibility is to provide the framework and facilities for research. Everything else is done by the Professor and lab.

      Therefore, most research is not a large scale enterprise. Exceptions are institutes like the Whitehead Institute at MIT. But still, if a Nobel Prize is given for the human genome project, Eric Lander of the Whitehead will deservedly be one of the recepients and not the whole institute because it was his leadership and key ideas which deserve recognition.

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  6. I need to catch up on my physics by FLOOBYDUST · · Score: 5, Informative

    It always amazes me how little I know when I look at what these folks do. http://web.mit.edu/physics/facultyandstaff/faculty /frank_wilczek.html/ Interesting reading.

    1. Re:I need to catch up on my physics by huge · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please remove the trailing slash.

      --
      -- Reality checks don't bounce.
  7. Re:Coralised link by Jugalator · · Score: 3, Informative

    Umm, mods... That one wasn't coralized...

    Try this instead:
    http://nobelprize.org.nyud.net:8090/physics/laurea tes/2004/press.html

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  8. The Elegant Universe by MonkeyDev · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want a good description of what Superstrings is all about, read Brian Greene's book "The Elegant Universe". It's about superstrings, hidden dimensions, and the quest for the ultimate theory. His book was also made into a PBS special a few months ago. Brian Greene is a master at making these complex issues understandable. And he's fun to watch too. I'm not sure how much pure research he does anymore, but he's probably one of the best things that's ever happened to science because he helps people like me understand what people like him do - and tells us why we should care!

    1. Re:The Elegant Universe by Too+Much+Noise · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, he's actually a master at giving you the impression of understanding. No offense - with the scarce funding that's going into String Theory right now, it's a necessary skill.

      Just because he paints a picture it doesn't imply one understands its meaning.

  9. After T'Hooft prize by colores · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is long waited prize in the the High Energy Physics comunity. It wasn't awarded before because some dispute about the original idea claimed by Gerard T'Hooft but never published. Only after T'Hooft got the nobel prize in 1999 the path to the "QCD nobel prize" was really open.

  10. Well... by Chaotic+Evil+Cleric · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... I'm glad to see freedom is alive SOMEWHERE.

  11. Or watch the show by Baron+Eekman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Although this is slightly offtopic, I recommend spending three hours behind your computer to watch Greene's NOVA program The Elegant Universe

  12. Re:After 'T Hooft prize by colores · · Score: 2, Informative

    The full history is here: Gerardus 't Hooft - Autobiography:

    "At CERN, I became interested in the quark confinement problem. I could not understand why none of the expert theoreticians would embrace quantum field theories for quarks. When I asked them, why not just a pure Yang-Mills theory?, they said that field theories were inconsistent with what J.D. Bjorken had found out about scaling in the strong interactions. This puzzled me, because when I computed the scaling properties of Yang-Mills fields, they seemed to be just what one needs. I simply could not believe that no-one besides me knew how Yang-Mills theories scale. I mentioned my result verbally at a small conference at Marseille, in 1972. The only person who listened to what I said was Kurt Symanzik. He urged me to publish my result about scaling. 1f you don't, someone else will", he warned. I ignored his sensible advice. I had also made a remark about scaling in my 1971 paper on massive Yang-Mills fields. No-one had taken notice.

    Veltman told me that my theory would be worthless if I could not explain why quarks cannot be isolated. He attached more importance to another project we had embarked upon: we had started a lengthy calculation concerning the renormalizability of quantum gravity models. Although complete renormalization would never be possible, it was still worth-while to study these theories at the one-loop level, and there were some important things to be learned. Our work would be continued by Stanley Deser and a fellow PhD student of Veltman's, Peter van Nieuwenhuizen, who discovered patterns in the renormalization counter terms that would lead to the discovery of supergravity theories.

    But I also continued to think of gauge theories for the strong interaction. Quark confinement was indeed a problem, and I started to work on it. It was this question that led me to discover the magnetic monopole solutions in Higgs theories, the large N behaviour for theories with N colours (instead of 3, the physical number), and later the very important effects due to instantons. In the mean time, the scaling properties were rediscovered by H. David Politzer and by David Gross and Frank Wilczek in 1973, who now realized that this invalidated the age-old objections against simple, pure Yang-Mills theories for the strong interactions. The pure Yang-Mills theory with gauge group SU (3) was finally being accepted as the most likely explanation for the strong interactions, and it received the beautiful name "Quantum Chromodynamics" (QCD). "

  13. Prize money?? by wetlettuce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hadn't realised that the Nobel Prize actually had a cash prize. Considering these guys were just doing there job, the payout is not bad. 10M swedish krona (763K GBP or 1.36M USD).

    1. Re:Prize money?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hadn't realised that the Nobel Prize actually had a cash prize. Considering these guys were just doing there job, the payout is not bad. 10M swedish krona (763K GBP or 1.36M USD).

      Excuse me? "Considering these guys were just doing there job"? What does that have to do with anything?

      1. Your grammar needs improvement: you should have written "their" and "jobs".

      2. Anyone that wins the Nobel prize in physics is an awful lot smarter and has done an awful lot more work than "just doing his job".

      3. You imply that a prizewinner would deserve a larger sum if he was an amateur working in his shed. Can you justify yourself?

  14. That is the same as my girlfriend by lcsjk · · Score: 2, Funny

    "for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction" It's her way of saying you can approach freedom, but you will never quite get there. - not as long as I'm around.

  15. A plug for Caltech and good teaching. by DrRobin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hey! One of these guys (Politzer) was my Phys 1 prof when I was a frosh at Caltech *cough* 27 years ago, and I actually _remember_ his explanation of asymptotic freedom to us (even though I am a only a biology guy)! I also remember Feynman's guest lecture on numerical methods for "solving" otherwise impossible problems in Quantum Mechanics (which he demonstrated with a hand calculator!). We (the undergrads) were for the most part cocky know-it-alls with no clue what a privilege it was to have these folks (and many others of their caliber) teaching us up close and personal. Now, I look back with amazement at being able to discuss/joke/plead with these folks like it was no big deal. Seriously, if there are any gung-ho Slashlings out there looking for an intense science education, Caltech is hard to beat. Of course, if hazy memory serves in this matter, more than half the class flunked that first Phys1 midterm, so this is not for the faint of heart...

    1. Re:A plug for Caltech and good teaching. by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hey! One of these guys (Politzer) was my Phys 1 prof when I was a frosh at Caltech *cough* 27 years ago

      I remember taking "Track B" with Politzer and Gomez back about that time, with class notes distributed on pink paper, brutal take-home quizzes on relativity, etc.

      Politzer is a pretty good and patient prof, answering questions, explaining basic physics points, etc. although one time he did get annoyed at a cocky youngster (I don't think it was you - this was 26 years ago) slouched up in the front row.

      Cocky youngster: "I don't see why you just don't use Stoke's Theorem."

      Politzer: "I could just do this, too! (writes down what I later learned was manifestly covariant form for Maxwell's equations), but I'm teaching the class (erases equations) and this is how I want to do it."

      The silenced cocky youngster sitting up front was spared the further embarrassment of seeing his classmates behind smiling at his long overdue comeuppance.

      I agree - Caltech can't be beat for pure science education. It helps, too, that the freshman year is graded Pass/Fail and that they have an honor system, unlike most any other school, actually trusts you to take a closed-book, limited-time,take-homeexamination.

      --
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  16. Begone, ye troll! by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I realise I may be feeding a troll, but too many people have that serious opinion. Let me jsut layout some coutner arguements:

    Relativity is not 'useless' satalite communication would not be work if we didn't make relitivistic corrections. So unless you consider cellphones "worthless", then the theory is worthwhile. Not only does cellphone technology rely on satalites, but also on the precise atomic clocks contained with in them. And those atomic clocks rely on our quantum mechanical understanding of atoms. Thats not to say that this particular research directly led to our widespread cellphone usage, but its just an example of how much basic research affects our daily lives.

    Now, every now and then pure mathematicians will come up with an obscure field that they will decalre as being unaplicable to anything ever ( see group theory). Then a few years later a group of physicsists will discover that it has a real application in physics. Then they will speculate wildly about the potential applications in an attempt to gain greater funding, while privately thinking that it has no possible use. Then some crazy engineer will discover some such use ( usually one the physicists never thought of) and whoila it has a real world benifit to all of mankind. The more tools we have to solve problems, the easier the problems become. The tools have a trickle down effect. More mathematical tools lead to more physics tools which lead to more engineering tools which lead to more solutions to our everyday problems.

    --
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    1. Re:Begone, ye troll! by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 4, Informative

      Einstein never won a Nobel prize for Relativity, he won it for the photoelectric effect.

    2. Re:Begone, ye troll! by Cryogenes · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Now, every now and then pure mathematicians will come up with an obscure field that they will decalre as being unaplicable to anything ever ( see group theory)

      Group theory is not an obscure field of mathematics. It is mainstream and some of it is taught to math students in their first year. The obscure areas are where it takes you two decades to study just to get to the problem statement. There's lots of those and the potential for applications is often very small.

      My take is that society does need mathematicians because hard theoretical problems do come up once in a while. Those mathematicians have to keep sharp even if they don't have anything "real" to do for the moment. In the meantime, they will push the theoretical boundaries in some obscure corner. As a bonus, something useful is produced occasionally.
  17. Re:These guys need to get out more by UnHolier+than+ever · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In fact, the original name (and one that is still used by many physicists) for the top and bottom quarks were Truth and Beauty. Now, of course, joykillers like you say that's not technical enough and that it can't be serious. As if Top and Bottom meant something more....If you want to do any anything technical, they should be called 1,2,3,4,5, and 6. Otherwise, give any name you want, they're just names.

  18. Re:These guys need to get out more by mdp1173 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Joykiller?

    If anyone deserves to be a little whimsical from time to time, it's the guys who sit around and figure out why the Universe is the way it is. I wasn't saying that the names aren't technical or serious enough, there's enough complexity in the name Quantum Chromodynamics to make most undergrads head's spin, they don't need the names of the elementry particles to be alpha, beta, gamma, etc.

    I just find it funny that in trying to discover a theory of everything, we use a phrase from Finnegan's Wake

  19. ah yes, highbrow for a day by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is where we pretend we care about the nobel prize in physics for a day.

    Now back to Linux.

  20. English by tod_miller · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The closer the quarks are, the more free they reign.

    The farther apart the more force is exerted on them.

    They describe it as an elastic band. It sound more like the 'proximity' provides some kind of countering effect, which is removed when they drift apart, or indeed, merely they reach the boundary of thier movement (this is me know knows nothing about all this stuff)

    But it does say that we know nothing about gravity, where it comes form, what its favourite colour is, or, perhaps topically, who it will vote for.

    It says something about humanity, they don't see something until it falls on thier head (literally).

    I used to think that gravity shouldn't be explained, but bouyancy. If you know why things float, you know why things fall.

    c'mon I was like 4 years old. The only rubber sheet I had heard of was my matress. Yes, I wet the bed. *hands head in shame*

    I stopped well before my 22nd birthday though :-)

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  21. The scary part by Ancient+Devices+King · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Two of the winners are in their mid 50's. But the work they won the prize for was done over 30 years ago. That means they were in their early to mid 20's at the time!

    --
    -"It seems like you're trying to exploit a security hole. Would you like help?"
  22. Dr. P. is a Rap Singer Too by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 2, Funny
    David Politzer's name sure sounded familiar to me. Then I remembered:

    Back when I was at CalTech in the early 80's (studying physics myself), a friend named Scott Lewicki, and his friend Doug Priest got David Politzer to record a rap song called The Simple Harmonic Oscillator Rap.

    Google doesn't find me an MP3 of it, but the lyrics are in this PDF document. Search in the text of the document for "Politzer" and you'll find the lyrics.

    You can purchase it on a CD called Physics Pholk Songs for $15.00.

    Here's the first verse:

    I want to talk today about things that shake,
    And I hope my words aren't too opaque.
    One degree of freedom moving to and fro,
    Just how it moves, we'd like to know.
    We can represent all kinds of things
    By a single mass between ideal springs.
    Each spring's connected to a wall.
    So the outer ends don't move at all.

    Enjoy!

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  23. What we see... by writermike · · Score: 2, Funny

    The physics person sees...

    azatht writes "The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has decided to award the Nobel Prize in Physics for 2004 "for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction" jointly to David J. Gross, Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, USA, H. David Politzer California Institute of Technology (Caltech), Pasadena, USThe 2004 Nobel Prize in Physics, and Frank Wilczek Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cambridge, USA."

    The others see...

    azatht writes "The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has decided to award the Nobel Prize in Physics ...(uuuhhh words, words, words, uh... blah).

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