Spyware Fines OKed By House

glimmy writes "The US House of Represenatives passed a bill that imposes fines on the use of Spyware by a majority of 399-1. This bill excludes programs used by the FBI or spy agencies, though."

Comments

Please define spy agencies?

[mpost4]

How tight or loss will this definition be??? can any organization apply for it. Or will it be only for government spy agencies? How about foreign ones? The article has this line in it " The House bill approved Tuesday explicitly permits snooping software built by the FBI (news - web sites) or spy agencies secretly collecting information under a court order or other legal permissions affecting federal departments." Ok which courts? US? ones, how about if N. Kora spy agency got court orders to investigate some one in the US (ya right really like this will happen but just for the sake of the question please give me this one) will that be allowed? Now how about company X higher a company in China, that gets a general court order there to do spy ware, and lets say for further argument, lets say this chines corp gets "classified" a spy agency? Is that legal, or is the lay written that only US spy agencies? How about the spy agencies ones from our friends to the North Canada, lets say they are investigating some one that is part of organized crime there, but lives in the US? Or is this just another feel good law, like the can spam law? I would hope this does decrease spyware (but how many of these spyware organizations are just going to move off shore?) I am tired of cleaning it off of friends computers, (one reason I make it a part of my procedure, no mater what I do, I install spywareblaster)

Put on tin foil hats now?

Re:Please define spy agencies?

[baximus]

Better yet - Please define "spyware". A lot of internet users and anti-spyware companies consider browser cookies to be a form of spyware. Does this mean that I will end up having to recode all my web pages to not use cookies, in order to avoid a fine?

Re:Please define spy agencies?

[FrYGuY101]

The House bill approved Tuesday explicitly permits snooping software built by the FBI (news - web sites) or spy agencies secretly collecting information under a court order or other legal permissions affecting federal departments." Ok which courts? US? ones, how about if N. Kora spy agency got court orders to investigate some one in the US (ya right really like this will happen but just for the sake of the question please give me this one) will that be allowed?

This is an American law affecting American companies, american citizens, and american institutions. Set up shop outside the border and you're immune, sadly.

Re:Please define spy agencies?

[heli0]

Please define "spyware"

Here are the criteria specified in the bill

http://thomas.loc.gov
H.R. 2929

(1) Taking control of the computer by--

(A) utilizing such computer to send unsolicited information or material from the protected computer to others;

(B) diverting the Internet browser of the computer, or similar program of the computer used to access and navigate the Internet, away from the site the user intended to view, to one or more other Web pages, such that the user is prevented from viewing the content at the intended Web page;

(C) accessing or using the modem, or Internet connection or service, for the computer and thereby causing damage to the computer or causing the owner or authorized user to incur unauthorized financial charges;

(D) using the computer as part of an activity performed by a group of computers that causes damage to another computer; or

(E) delivering advertisements that a user of the computer cannot close without turning off the computer or closing all sessions of the Internet browser for the computer.

(2) Modifying settings related to use of the computer or to the computer's access to or use of the Internet by altering--

(A) the Web page that appears when the owner or authorized user launches an Internet browser or similar program used to access and navigate the Internet;

(B) the default provider used to access or search the Internet, or other existing Internet connections settings;

(C) a list of bookmarks used by the computer to access Web pages; or

(D) security or other settings of the computer that protect information about the owner or authorized user.

(3) Collecting personally identifiable information through the use of a keystroke logging function or similar function.

(4) Inducing the owner or authorized user to install a computer software component onto the computer, or preventing reasonable efforts to block the installation or execution of, or to disable, a computer software component by--

(A) presenting the owner or authorized user with an option to decline installation of a software component such that, when the option is selected by the owner or authorized user, the installation nevertheless proceeds; or

(B) causing a computer software component that the owner or authorized user has properly removed or disabled to automatically reinstall or reactivate on the computer.

(5) Misrepresenting that installing a separate software component or providing log-in and password information is necessary for security or privacy reasons, or that installing a separate software component is necessary to open, view, or play a particular type of content.

(6) Inducing the owner or authorized user to install or execute computer software by misrepresenting the identity or authority of the person or entity providing the computer software to the owner or user.

(7) Inducing the owner or authorized user to provide personally identifiable information to another person by misrepresenting the identity or authority of the person seeking the information.

(8) Removing, disabling, or rendering inoperative a security, anti-spyware, or anti-virus technology installed on the computer.

(9) Installing or executing on the computer one or more additional computer software components with the intent of causing a person to use such components in a way that violates any other provision of this section.

Re:Please define spy agencies?

[xs650]

Iraq. Next question.

Re:Please define spy agencies?

[jginspace]

Yes, this is the "Spy Act", as opposed to the "I-Spy" act (4661).

Looking at the provisions it seems the attribution "Spyware" is more a case of hype though. The act is much wider in its scope than what a /. reader would define as spyware.

1B,C,D,E could be paraphrased in a nanosecond by the average /. reader. Leaving the most important provision: "utilizing such computer to send unsolicited information or material from the protected computer to others".

And yes it does contain a provision banning "Collecting personally identifiable information through the use of a keystroke logging function or similar function."

This part, "Removing, disabling, or rendering inoperative a security, anti-spyware, or anti-virus technology installed on the computer." ...would be easy to break. I suppose the action has to be "wilful".

By clicking OK...

[JorDan Clock]

Spyware isn't as secretive as they seem to think it was. Much of it is installed with full knowledge of it's existance, but many people ignore the functions of what they download. I really doubt this will do anything at all because people will keep downloading things like WeatherBug, and think that all it's doing is reporting the weather...

Re:By clicking OK...

[brxndxn]

If I download a program called Weatherbug because it tells me that it will give me quick access to the weather, and then I find out that there were also many other stipulations in the 'user agreement' that 1% of people read, it's spyware.

IMO, Realplayer is spyware, AOL Instant Messenger is spyware. There oughta be a crackdown on dishonest software. When Realplayer starts with all the subscription defaults as deactivated, except for the ones conveniently out of view, SPYWARE. When AOL Instant Messenger wants to put wild tangent bullshit on my computer when AIM used to be for IM'ing people, SPYWARE. Sorry, but it's dishonest programming and doesn't give people enough options for how to disable it or even realize that it's there. Weatherbug does not have anything other than small text about its spyware.

Also, Microsoft is at fault. It's usually just one-click 'yes or no' that decides whether or not the average user has infinite spam, goes to coolwebsearch.com at default, and loses a reliable internet connection... 'Install on Demand' should be disabled by default. I once had spyware installed.. turns out I clicked 'yes' one time when I was just quickly closing popup windows.

They ought to impose the same kinds of restrictions that credit card companies have. When I get a CC add, I can instantly sort through all the bullshit. When Capital One sends me their junk mail, I can open it up and instantly see that $79 a year credit card membership fee is a ripoff. In software, you have to read through a longwinded user agreement - often only available after the software is already downloaded and installed.

The average user is stupid. But, it's not always only stupid users that are being deceived. The software itself lies about its purpose.

spy agencies?

[osho_gg]

Let me guess, microsoft will be the first officially US government sanctioned spy agency?

Osho

Great but...

[Stevyn]

These companies like Claria (Gator) will just hire lawyers to make sure the agreement you click yes to will protect them from any legal action. I would love to see these companies put out of business, but the bottom line is people agree to installing this software. It sucks for me to remove it from my friends' computers, but that's just the way it is. No matter how much I convince them not to install free windows software or use firefox, they won't change their habits any time soon.

Still, it's a step in the "right direction."

Definition of spyware ?

[SuneSpeg]

I wonder what the exact definition of spyware is according to that bill ?

Theoretically the cookie set by /. when you read this is spyware, while the gator and 30 browserhijacks/toolbars/etc you volunteerly installed and accepted thru a 30 pages long eula isnt ?

Not to mention various pieces of software that installs on windows machines when you try play a regular audio CD..

Its imho a good thing to ban spyware, but im just really unsure what to ban..

Re:Rep. Ron Paul and why he voted against it.

[DAldredge]

Osama has sold out Islam as portions of the Quron teach against what he has done.

Bush has sold out per his dealings and love of China even though they have a forced abortion policy.

Kill-Jonh Il has sold out as he is a professed commie and he doesn't follow the teachings of that system (not that any commie leader in history has)

Get The Facts Straight

[Pave Low]

This bill excludes programs used by the FBI or spy agencies, though.

You left this out from the article:
The House bill approved Tuesday explicitly permits snooping software built by the FBI (news - web sites) or spy agencies secretly collecting information under a court order or other legal permissions affecting federal departments. There excluded when they have a court order, issued by a judge for cause. They can't just do it willy nilly for kicks.

You know, cops can also run red lights and speed when they're chasing suspects too. On no! abuse of power!! Sheesh.

Re:who was the holdout

[fdiskne1]

According to this article at News.com, it was "Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, a vocal libertarian who frequently says the federal government should not be policing the Internet, was the lone dissenter."

Re:The lone hold out...

[Brandybuck]

Maybe Ron Paul (L-Texas) actually read the full text of the bill and understood that beneath it's geek-friendly title was a freedom-unfriendly law.

You may think its funny to criminalize spyware, but that's the first step down a very slippery slope. Spywares are not viruses or trojans. They only get installed via user consent. A government that has the power to criminalize spyware between a consenting user and publisher has the power to criminalize [insert any consensual activity here].

You don't outlaw mere annoyances. That's taking the power of government way too far, no matter what political stripe you are. Do we ban nose picking next? Belching at the table? Spyware may be annoying, but if it's on your system, you have only yourself to blame. If you're an admin and it's running amock on your wee 'bairns then look to your users and not to the spyware publishers.

Get your worms the MSN way!

[heybo]

Funny how this story came up on a day like today.

Today I got a call from one of our clients we take care of about spyware problems. Now they have all the latest and greatest in cleaning tools. They all are net savy and don't click every box that pops up. Well some got so bad today they wouldn't function. The woman's in charge was the worst and I know this lady does know how not to screw things up and she was swearing up and down. "I haven't done anything!"

Well 4 hours later for 2 people we get everything cleaned back up. I set the "Tea Timer" on Spybot S&D and set it to show a prompt when it hit something. (setting the prompt is something I have never done before). I fire up IE and the home page is msn.com and BANG "Cannot download file AvenueA, Inc". FROM MSN!!!! Yes folks trying to download in the background from an ad image. Coming from machine name view.atdmt.com and it hiding behind the image trying to sell you msn broadband service!!!

They call this "Trusted Computing"?

Yes friends not only will MS sell you a holey OS but then we will pirate it from you using their own exploits in their browser!

I called MS and of course it wasn't us. (even offer to send them the logs and the captures from the network, but I don't know what I am talking about...) After 3 hours I talked with a supervisor that "acted" like he cared. Well log files don't lie and neither do I.

No this is no joke. I wish it was. At least the problem is solved for our client. We blocked msn at the firewall

A point about this I'm not really a M$ basher hell I've made my living on NT since 3.51. True I perfer Linux but have always siad that M$ was ok and you could TRUST them. Well that ended that today. As I said I don't lie especially to people who are paying me and putting their trust in me so the next time I am asked "Can you trust Microsoft?" the answer will be NO!

Mod Parent Down

[MrNonchalant]

Dude, it was a cookie. I've gotten plenty of Spybot warnings about Avenue A as well and every last one of them have been about cookies. What you're seeing is a third party advertiser attempt to set a cookie from their ad in order to track you. I think I'm not alone in saying that I'd prefer not to be tracked, but wouldn't call it Spyware and wouldn't blame Microsoft one bit for allowing a cookie to be set.