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RFID Drivers' Licenses Debated

Posted by michael on from the mylar-wallets-suddenly-popular dept.

meganthom writes "How would you feel about having an RFID chip in your driver's license? Virginia is considering just such a measure, largely because several of the 9/11 hijackers were licensed there. Civil rights advocates are obviously unhappy with this turn of events, and it seems the ACLU has already taken the case. Proponents claim it would help law enforcement determine that you are who you claim to be and would make forgeries less common. The Federal government is also considering uniform 'smart card' standards."

11 of 514 comments (clear)

  1. I wouldn't mind by mod_critical · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't particularily like the Big Brother idea, but I have no qualms about this. You carry your licence so that people know who you are, and this would just provide a better way to verify that information. It would also be a nice way to lower the costs of corporate identification systems. I have a few workstations I manage for students to use at my college in the Physics office. I had gotten some old card readers and just set people's passwords to the raw string of text that their driver's licence would read out. It worked really well to keep them secure and the make it easy for people to log in, and if RFID tags were in our driver's licences it would make keyless entry systems and RFID based computer security systems a lot less expensive to get started with if there was enough secure information on the RFID tag.

    Of course there are problems with the fact of how much data would be on there. Could I walk past a pillar in a mall that would read my address and phone number off my licence and sign me up to receive unsolicited calls and mailings? Also, would the data be secure enough if it were to be implemented in a security system? If these concerns were taken care of (well, the security system one less so, probably actually not that feasible, that's just the old hobbiest ticking inside me), then I wouldn't have a problem at all with a more secure and harder to forge driver's licence.

    1. Re:I wouldn't mind by Jo3sh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "You carry your licence so that people know who you are"

      I think this is a mis-statement. I carry my ID so I can provide evidence of my identity and of my qualification to drive an automobile to those who I believe have a need to know. I do not carry my ID so passersby can sniff my wallet (probably one of the worst turns of phrase I've ever made) and track me without my knowledge.

    2. Re:I wouldn't mind by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course it's a non sequitur. It's all a part of the "If you don't support my harebrained scheme, you're with the terrorists" line of thinking, which has become way too common lately. You'd think people would wise up and see right through this, but I guess there are a lot of slow learners out there.

    3. Re:I wouldn't mind by baudilus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not only that, but with licenses as they are, the police/gestapo/etc. have to ASK for your license to see who you are - that's the big difference. You know who is requesting your license information, and if you so desire, you can deny them this access. Not so with RFID. If a cop pulls you over, he gets all your driver information and anyone else in the vehicle carrying this RFID as he walks to your car (maybe even before he gets out of HIS car, without even talking to you.

      Might not trouble some, but being a minority I've had my "fair" share of profiling. This brings it to a whole new level.

    4. Re:I wouldn't mind by CreatureComfort · · Score: 3, Interesting


      The point is that all of those are activities that where I can make a decision whether to give that information or not. I walk into a place for a job application that looks shady... I just walk right back out and they don't get my info. With an RFID tag broadcasting my info, you remove that choice from me. Not only that, but you enable the covert theft of identity to an absurd degree. It's bad enough that to use my credit card at a restaurant I have to let the waitress take the card out of my site, but to now allow anyone with the sklill to build/buy a remote sniffer to gather the information necessary to apply for new cards in my name....

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
  2. New wallets for everybody! by erick99 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Can you imagine how quickly wallet manufacturers would come out with new wallets that either sandwich your drivers license between two pieces of metal (aluminum foil I guess) or shield the entire wallet? I don't usually get too excited about privacy issues because I don't believe we have any these days. But, it is way too easy to imagine thieves walking around with readers and harvesting drivers licenses numbers and info in crowds. A drivers license often has all you need to get a credit card, especially if your state uses your social security number as your drivers license number (do any states do that anymore?).

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  3. Re:This isn't much different by FrankSchwab · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure it's different - as long as I leave my driver's license in my pocket, no one can read that mag stripe off the back. And, frankly, I don't give my driver's license to anyone who doesn't have the legal authority to compel me to give it to them. Cashiers get to look at it. They don't get to touch. With RFID, anyone and everyone can read my driver's license number (or a number that corresponds to my driver's license number). There have been times in my life when anonymity was important to me; there will be times in the future when it will be also. /frank

    --
    And the worms ate into his brain.
  4. not for me..... by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    200,000 volt stun gun will tune that puppy up.
    I took my current DL and bulk erased the mag stripe, then threw it on the concrete and stood on it and twisted my foot, grinding the barcode up so that it is no longer machine readable.
    Visually, my DL still functions, it shows my ID correctly, it just can't be read by a machine.
    If they want to check it against some DB, they have to call it in the old fashioned way.
    "Sir, your DL is damaged, you need to have it replaced" "Gee, imagine that, I guess I better do something about that huh?" and that's that.

    Resistance is NOT futile.

    1. Re:not for me..... by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't drink but I do know that you are right, they do this in Texas. In some counties they are "dry" but restaurants can serve alcohol if you purchase a "license to drink" in that dry county.
      When you go to eat and want a margarita, they swipe your DL through a machine and Xref it to a county DB to see if you are paid up on your "license to drink". If you are, the bring you your drink. If there are any warrants out for you, no matter how trivial they may be, such as a traffic ticket or you are on probation, the waitress/waiter holds your DL and the police show up there to collect you. The county keeps a DB of your drinking habits too. I've seen this happen to friends. They submit to this because they feel the need to drink outweighs the need for privacy.

      And what about when you buy groceries and they swipe your DL? Do you folks really, really think that a DB of your purchases isn't being compiled?

      Get real. Go cash. Ditch the system, it's evil...

  5. Re:Oh great... by Jhon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I understand just fine. Perhaps you dont understand the danger? Unless my RFID card does on the fly two-way communications with pass-key encryption, all someone would need to do is CAPTURE that 200 digit 'unique identifier' and clone it. You can viewed 'remotely' as me if you walk by a scanner. Or worse, knowing my name/address, you could construct a pretty convicing fake ID with your picture on it...

  6. Re:Oh great... by Jhon · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Maybe some voyeuristic ID thieves might have a reader implanted in a glove and grab your ass some night at a bar and they could get the number then
    Or a small scanner/recorder/transmitter is placed under a theater seat, a park bench, a restaurant...

    Just my opinion, but I have serious problems about ANY form of identification that doesn't need to be PHYSICALLY viewed/handled...
    This could be (should be) just adding another layer of authentication to the "getting carded" process.
    To what end? If it's another layer, and you STILL need to pull out your ID, how does this help? Perhaps as a replacement for the mag strip? I doubt this would be more efficent or accurate... At least with the mag-strip, you can hawk-eye your cards as someone handles them and you can SEE if they swipe it with some type of hand-held reader... It would be kind of hard to do that with RF if they had a scanner in their pocket they never had to remove...

    Dont get me wrong, you brought up some interesting points -- but nowhere near close enough to convince that this is or can be a 'good' thing...