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Libertarian Badnarik an Election Spoiler?
Mr. Slippery writes "The New York Sun points out that Libertarian Party candidate Michael Badnarik could tip the balance in this year's presidental election, like Ralph Nader is accused of having done in 2000. Bush's policies may be driving some traditional conservative Republican voters into the Libertarian camp. Rasmussen polls have put him as high as 5% in New Mexico and 3% in Nevada, which could make a difference in which major party candidate takes those states."
I would say who cares, I am a Republican and support Bush, but if some one wants to vote for Michael Dadnarik then let them vote for him they have all the right to, he has just as much right to run, just as Nadar does. Even if he "costs"* Bush the election, there are things higher in principle then victory at all cost.
I for one don't care who runs, and how many people, I have looked at some of the other candidate, I even looked at http://www.peroutka2004.com/ I like his pro-life stance, but he fails to do separation of church and state, and as a devout Lutheran that scares me, so I can not vote for him, and leaves be back at the only other pro-life candidate Bush, unless any one can give me another one to look at.
* I put costs in quoats, because in a republic like we have a politician does not own another persons vote, the person gives a vote as a gift to a candidate. I will be giving mine to Bush, but Bush does not own it.
Even though the constitutional party candidate will definately get fewer votes- I see him as being a bigger danger to Bush than Badnarik. You see, unlike Bush, who is lying about being a social, political, and financial conservative, Peroutka's the real deal. And of all of the third party candidates- he's the only one who is the real deal (save maybe the Prohibitionists- but they haven't been on the ballot in even a reasonable number of states since the 21st Ammendement, IIRC, which one repealed the 18th anyway?). That makes Peroutka the obvious choice for the social conservative who doesn't want to vote for Bush the Betrayer of the Unborn- or the political/fiscal conservative who hates what is going on with the growth of government and therefore cannot vote for either Kerry or Bush.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
It's generally assumed that Libertarians draw from Republicans, but this isn't really true--I think they draw about 50-50. Libertarians have the small government philosophy associated with Republicans (although Bush has been anything but 'small governmetn'), but they also have the social liberties that are associated with Democrats (Who thinks the Libertarians want a Constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage?) So unlike Nader and the Greens, the Libertarians draw from both parties. They might have 5% of the vote in NM, but that doesn't mean they'll have any effect on the outcome of the election.
"My girlfriend's got sodium laureth sulfate hair."
I don't want to be associated with that, myself.
IMO, the only way a third party is really going to get launched is if a couple of high profile guys from the two major parties decide they've had enough and walk. I wouldn't waste a vote on Badnarik just to "send a message" (especially after being so forcefully reminded that there is a pretty big difference between the republicans and the dems), but I'd give serious consideration to a party running one of the men in Washington who I have real respect for.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Seperation of church and state is meant to go both ways. The state controlled the church in Europe, but the church also controlled the state for long periods of time. If a monarch didn't do what the Pope wanted the Pope would have him excommunicated. Go re-read your history because you clearly seem to have forgotten that. One of the things to remember is that at the time the Constitution was written you had many members of many differant religions and many people remembered the lack of religious tolerance in England (and other European nations, often state sponsored) just a 100 years previously. Religious influence on the state can be harmful to those of other religions hence it's a good idea to seperate religious doctrine from state decisions, any state decisions.
Just because your religion says abortion is wrong doesn't mean that mine agrees with you. Hence the government should stay out of the way as it can often come down to a religious belief. I'm not saying that a politician can't or shouldn't allow thier religion to influence thier decisions or morality, but they have to keep in mind that not everyone shares thier religious beliefs. With that in mind they should do what is best for the majority, not just what is best in the eyes of thier church.
As far as I can tell, Bush is a democrat who is pro life.
I tried to come up with something witty to respond to this, like saying Nader is a republican who is pro environment, but nothing is really that funny because the idea of Bush being is a democrat is just so absurd. If that were even slightly true this country wouldn't be anywhere near as polarized as it is now.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
I believe that was already answered in my post. To many people life doesn't begin until the fetus/baby could survive outside the mothers womb. Can a two month old fetus live outside the womb?
Secondly, (and I am saying this as an atheist), there is absoultely no conflict with believing in separation of church and state and voting according to your religious principles.
I am pro-life (somewhat), and an atheist (and a Libertarian). I see the fetus (though not until later stages of development) as a viable entity and as deserving of the same protections of Life, Liberty, and Property as anyone else.
I am one of those the article it talking about. I tend to lean conservative, but I've been totally turned off by Bush. In fact, I made the decision early on not to give my vote to Bush.
So now what? Do I vote for Kerry? Well, that is no better. That leaves me with Badnarik.
What people don't realize, though, is that Badnarik will not cost Bush the election. Bush already lost my vote. My choice is only between Kerry and Badnarik. That is the irony of the whole thing. Do I vote for a liberal or a libertarian, even though I might lean conservative?
It is an odd election. That is for sure.
I've voted for both Republicans and Democrats in the past. I usually vote for the candidate who is most moderate, which I define as being least likely to try to forcibly remove my personal decisions and property from my hands and place them in the hands of his Chosen Ones.
Usually the Republicans win this judgment. They violate it in many ways (telling gays they can't marry, people they can't smoke pot even at home, protesters that they can't burn the flag, etc.), but their overall tendency has been to try to restrict growth in government, while Democrats tend to think that all human problems require a corresponding federal agency whose task is to force reality to fit liberal theory.
Sometimes the Republicans lose this contest though. Such is the case this time, with Bush losing out massively due to his dragging us into a stupid war.
But this time, I'm not going for the Democrat, as I have in the past. This time, the Libertarians are going to take my vote away from the Democrats. Without the Libertarian option, Kerry would have gotten my vote. He still would have if it weren't for the Democrats' relentless "if you vote for me, I'll confiscate *their* stuff and give some of it to *you*" approach to governance.
There are a lot of things I like about the Democrats, the Bush administration is not even a consideration for me, and I think the Libertarians are often too extreme in their rejection of government. Even so, the Democrats' class warfare, "confiscate your way to prosperity", and "a federal agency should make your decisions, not you" attitude has driven my vote to the Libertarians.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
And this makes that point in time completely dependent on constantly changing technology. Fifty years ago no one would have dreamed that we'd be saving babies born 20 weeks premature. What happens when we get to the point when babies can be grown in test tubes, no uterus needed? Does that change the definition of when life begins?
Conception is the only definitive time we can point to. Anything else is arbitrary. Morality and ethics should not shift with time, technology, or opinion polls.
Constitutionally Correct
I'm pro-choice, and I have no problem with people saying that life begins at conception. Of course the fetus is "alive". So were the sperm & egg before conception. It's still wrong for the government to take away people's control over their own bodies.
So no, that is not necessarily the crux of the issue.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
If people don't support Kerry or Bush, how is voting for a different candidate spoiling the election? The 2 large parties don't own the vote.
When the subject of spoilers comes up... why do we alway refer to Nadar? Perot took 19% of the vote in 1992. He was the ultimate spoiler.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I submit that George W. Bush is the "spoiler" in this election year, as without his candidacy, Michael Badnarik would be sure to get most of the conservative vote. His limited-government politics are what a true Republican platform is supposed to stand for. It is a pity that the Republican platform has allowed itself to wander so far from its calling in the first place, or we wouldn't need a third party to represent this country's political conservatives in teh first place.
True, as a democrat I supposed you appreciate the subtle differences. As a Libertarian, I don't.
- Libertarians are always up for a tax cut.
- Reduction of government programs is great, but Bush didn't do this. The size of the government drastically expanded under his watch.
- Microsoft suit being killed? Good. Prosecute them if they violated any contracts or entered into illegal contracts. If the suit is that they just were not nice to the competition and were giving out too much imbedded software, I really don't care, especially considering that I am typing this out on a Xandros. Microsoft is already being pummeled, they don't need the governments help. Either way, it isn't high on my list of important topics.
- Democrats and Republicans both merrily voted to authorize the war with almost no argument. If you vote to give the president power to conduct a war, don't suddenly act surprised when he goes off and conducts a war.
- Yeah, see the above. Both of them voted merrily for the Patriot Act. If the war and the Patriot Act are your top two issues, I suggest just flipping a coin to decide who you vote for.
Democrats and Republicans both want a larger government with more control. The only difference is that one wants a larger government with more control over my social life, and the other wants a bigger government with more control over my economic life. Thanks but no. I'll vote libertarian.