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A New Species Of Giant Ape?
jd writes "The New Scientist, The Age (an Australian newspaper), Daily Telegraph (a British newspaper), BBC, and the Discovery Channel are talking excitedly about a strange primate, found in the Congo. Locals say it is notorious for killing fully-grown adult lions. Optimists hope that it is a new species, maybe related to the gorilla. Pessimists claim it's an overgrown chimpanzee. In either case, primates aren't discovered every day, making this a rare find indeed."
I wonder why they stopped attacking when they saw her...
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Locals say it is notorious for killing fully-grown adult lions.
IT's new, but already notorious... and it's been slashdotted as well.
On a more serious basis, why don't the "new scientists" directly ask the locals about the species they know, I am sure they'd find out many things instead of just tracking these on their own.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Wonder how long till they get turned into bushmeat
My email addy? should be easy enough.
If a group of these came upon a lone Lion, perhaps a young male, I would not be surprised if they were able to take him down. My own perception would be that one or other side would flee.
Incidently, you need to understand Chips as far as I can see, and Chips are far more brutal and aggresive in using troops and patrols in their area than most people understand. They will and do go hunting other groups for the kill.
There was a recent documentary where the scientists believe human warefare is an extension of the primal behaviour in chips and their territory. Along side this was captured on film a troop of chips that went on a patrol in the pure purpose of hunting down and killing other chips in the area. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.
Would such a tribe allow lions or other predators in their area if they are powerful enough and agressive enough? That remains an open debate. These fearsome creatures may simply be scaring the locals and thus gaining notariety in doings so. As simple a thing as a dead lion and this group of apes can be a case of 2+2 =7
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Chimpanzee's do employ natural objects in order to get maggots in trees. I just want to know, how do these apes kill lions? Do they use stones? Jaws of animals? Sure they can probably use their fists, but if they used tools, well it'd certainly be something noteworthy.
Care to indicate a source for this information? My own searches on the net show nearly identical stories last year (as we had here), though they said DNA was being tested. I was unable to find results on those tests. It was quite curious. -Drachasor
So, these chimps are the equivalent of the people from the Norse region?
If you look at humanity, you find a huge range of adult sizes along with a wide range of colorations. As closely related as apes are, I'd expect the same.
I don't read AC A human right
Doesn't the predator know that the prey must die for it to eat?
Eating is survival, pleasure is not.
Going by your argument, if it is okay for me to kill thousands of animals because I want my next coolest toy, it's alright for someone to parttake in genocide. Hey, it's natural isn't it?
Yes, that McD toy is part of our survival. It's part of our economy, and that is what makes us grow population wise - which is exactly what survival means for most species.
Look at the bigger picture.
it's in my head
They don't "just get larger than most chimps", the articles state that while they are chimps from a specific family, their behavioural and "nesting" traits are a variation on both gorilla and chimp traits.
That's neither sensationalist nor is it "totally common".
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The last digit of pi is four.
You're absolutely right, the standard mitochondrial DNA analysis places them in 'schweinfurthii' (which, geographically, they border with).
However, it has been pointed out that mtDNA analyses cannot always distinguish between closely related species, and the answer cannot be definitively known until a a full nuclear DNA analysis is performed.
Also, it's worth nothing that, whilst chimps can grow to various sizes, these apes are considerably larger than even the largest chimp on record, and their behaviour is substantially different from typical chimp behaviour
Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
You must be a city person.
Ever seen what a fox, or weasel, or even a racoon, will do in a hen house? They will all kill every single chicken in the coop, then only eat the best parts from one or two. If you don't clean the mess up, they might return for one or two nights to partially eat from other carcasses, but they leave the vast majority to spoil and rot. If that's not genocide, I don't know what is.
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
Along side this was captured on film a troop of chips that went on a patrol in the pure purpose of hunting down and killing other chips in the area.
I believe I saw something like that about chimps that Jane Goodall observed. I saw a documentary about a group of chimps that grew too large and some were exiled to keep the group at a certain size. The exiled chimps were then treated as a rival group encroaching the main group's territory, hunted, and killed. This, shortly after having been part of the very group that hunted and killed them. Coincidentally, I learned in an Anthropology class that human tribes tend to divide if their populations exceed 100 members.
There was a recent documentary where the scientists believe human warfare is an extension of the primal behaviour in chips and their territory.
Human behaviour has been observed as an extension of primal instincts for some time now. I believe I heard of a book called The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris that was controversial when it was first published in 1967 because it observed human behaviour from a zoological perspective. I have also seen a documentary called Human Instinct by Robert Winston that also does the same sort of comparisons. There is also a book that complements the documentary.
I think that greed also has its roots in primal instincts. I also saw a video of Jane Goodall (again) feeding chimps. They used to scatter bananas around everywhere, and the pack of chimps would come along and just peacefully eat. However, one time, she decided to place all the bananas in a pile without realising the consequences. The chimps got into a big frenzy, fighting over the pile, with the alpha male keeping it for himself and keeping others away from it. After this, Goodall made it clear that they must never feed the chimps in this way again. It seemed similar to how animals feeding over a carcass with fight with one another. Despite the fact that money is an abstract concept, I think the human mind it somehow perceives it as a "pile of bananas", and elicits the same primal response. That's just my personal opinion, however.
What if we kill them because they are a threat to us, or perhaps because they taste good. Isn't that survival? Isn't that "natural"?
Remember, folks this is the same part of the world where they have their own version of the Lock Ness Monster, Mokele Mbembe. As a Peace Corps volunteer in Congo-Brazzaville, I heard a lot about it. National Geographic couldn't get guides to take them into the swampy area northwest of the Congo river once the guides heard what they were looking for.
Mokele Mbembe is reported to kill elephants. As to the whole killing a planes lion when this is a jungle ape, lions and elephants live in forested areas as well.
I remember watching a show that showcased the strength of chimps. Even though they're small, about the size of a kid, they are tremendously strong. Their arms don't look too muscular, but they're able to easily lift themselves up using one arm, and they can do it all day.
I also saw a video where they trained a chimp to do the bench press, and it benched something like 600 lbs.
They also showed chimps fighting lower forms of monkeys, and these chimps corned a monkey in a tree, and 2 chimps grabbed the arms of the monkey and ripped its body in half.
-operate an "Etch-a-Sketch"?
-paddle in a canoe
-do the samba
-remove hanging chads
Who is it who said:
"Given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of chimpanzies, eventually you will get 'War and Peace'"?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
APES and other Animals:
APES:
-Maybe these bad boys cross-bred with the Apes of India... and supposing this, she hollers, "Yoni-Yoni-Yoni-Yoni.... kamasalila-saspanda..."
--Maybe they wanted "dark meat" that day, rib-less and skinless?
OTHER ANIMALS:
As for "as everyone that hunted once in their life knows, wild animals run like hell at the sight of humans, no matter how 'dangerous' the animals are, like tigers, lions and whatnot.."
Tell that to a co-worker of mine. He told me in that once in his younger days he and friends went hunting.
A wild pig appeared and his "Mr.-I'm-Tough" friend confidently takes aim and BLAST! Off goes some pig skin.
Pig keeps charging.
Friends head for the trees.
BLAM! off goes more skin, and a chunk of flesh.
Wild pig keeps charging.
Shooter furiously reloads. BLAM!
Off goes a chunk of pig eye. Pig keeps coming.
Shotgun jams or is ammoless.
Shooter drops shotgun and does what friends did: hauls ass into the neares climbable tree and stays there.
Pig rams tree, squealing, snorting, gushing blood a few minutes or longer. Eventually it dies from bleeding to death more than from that choice of shotgun used for hunting.
Not ALL animals fear and run from humans. Nor should they. They SHOULD chomp, rip or slas our encroaching asses at least ONCE in a while, right? Right!
I don't hunt, on land or at sea, but if I did, I'd only dive if I had a razor-festooned and cyanid-loaded, multi-layer suit that would poison the creature that ate me. I may dive to take pics, but not take a stabe at animal. They do what they have to do to eat. I'll do what I have to do to not be dessert, or deserted.
Maybe a Bruce-Dern-/Black Sunday-like black box filled with needels could "fleschette" an attacking shark and defuse that attack/charge. But, woe be unta any diving partners on the wrong side of the firing line...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
By your argumentation, nothing we do can be called unnatural. That makes the distinction between natural and unnatural useless.
Well then, please tell me, by your argument, who or what is the arbiter of that distinction?
I'd like to argue that our sense of morality separates us from nature.
Heh. Do you mind defining morality? And just out of curiosity, how does something that supposedly arose
from natural development (such as our "morality") become separated from from nature?
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People want to know. People are asking.