Slashdot Mirror


Feather-based Jacobean Space Chariot

simonmsh writes "The article Cromwell's moonshot: how one Jacobean scientist tried to kick off the space race describes 17th century plans to build a space chariot out of springs, feathers and gunpowder. The design was based on the idea that gravity disappeared at an altitude of 20 miles, which was called into question by Hooke ? and Boyle ? 's work. It sounds like the plot of a Neal Stephenson book." Said book, and its sequels are phenomenal.

13 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. Favorite Quote by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "In space we wouldn't need to eat because the reason why we need to eat on Earth is that the pull of gravity pulls food through our bodies and constantly empties our stomachs," Professor Chapman explained.

    Quotes like this remind you of a child trying to divine where all the food they eat goes. I remember thinking at 3 or 4 years old that there must be some sort of containers inside us to hold the food forever. Then I considered the volume of food we eat and just couldn't fathom what was happening to it. It didn't quite connect that the food might get processed then *ahem* ejected. :-)

    1. Re:Favorite Quote by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't know why the mods found it interesting. I was just musing for the sake of musing. What I want to know is why they found it offtopic. Overrated perhaps, but how can it be offtopic when it was in the article?

      Go figure.

    2. Re:Favorite Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also remember that back then you were called a professor not on your smarts but on how rich you or your family was.

      Money bought fandom. and most of the real scientists were shunned, stoned or hanged for daring to go against the lunatics.... I mean "professors" of the day.

      Hell President Lincoln was not killed by the bullet but by the QUACKs that were the doctors of that day.

      A little knowlege is extremely dangerous, and history shows us a large number of "little knowlege" people that caused lots of pain and suffereing for hundreds of years afterwards.

  2. Yet not the first by JUSTONEMORELATTE · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to legend the Chinese sent a man up around 1500AD.
    He didn't come back, but that's the way with pioneers


    --
    US$10, really

  3. Hmmmmmm, curious by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This kind of stuff makes me wonder which current technology will be looked back upon with the same feeling we look back at this "technology"??

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
  4. The "Mars Direct" of its day by OnanTheBarbarian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Re Stephenson books: Phenomenally large? Phenomenally self-indulgent? Phenomenally didactic?

    At any rate, it's an amusing story.

    All that hand-waving is vaguely reminiscent of "Mars Direct" or whatever they're calling it these days. Once upon a time, we didn't have to eat in space because of the absence of gravity. Now, we just hand-wave away radiation damage to the crew and the logistics of setting up a nuclear reactor on Mars to produce fuel for the return journey.

    1. Re:The "Mars Direct" of its day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Quite right. Theoretically it does indeed work, and on it's own terms, were it to work out that the evidence he used back when he wrote the book (a few years back) had stayed the same, even with the two rovers and mars express, then I'd heartily support it. It's ambitious and well-thought out, but seen by a few as a "flight of fancy" especially when clung to by people who use it as the only (and slightly outdated at that) reference to support a trip to mars.

      However I do become worried when I see this concerning grow crops on mars:

      Element Terrestrial Martian soil
      Soil (average) (estimated average)
      Nitrogen 0.14% Unknown.

      (p196)

      Now he makes the point that because of the high nitrogen content of the air the soil should be abundant in nitrates. Fair enough says I, but I would like to find out such things before we send people over there. Now the rest of the table is well bulked out with information. The only problem being that the potassium content is around a tenth (estimated) than that of earth, however it could probably be extracted from salt beds deposited on the dry shores of mars' ancient water bodies.

      Considering the age of the book I would like to see a rover roll over one of these salty shores and make damn sure that the stuff is there.

      This is just a small example and a petty one, however the fact remains that he uses assumptions from information gathered years ago, and we are still finding new things. Were all the things he makes assumptions on be proven correct then go back and point to it. If it's a case about radiation in space by all means use it. If you're talking about going to mars wait until more evidence has been collected.

      I would say the evidence we need is the evidence to support what we plan to do, send a bloke their, not much, sent one or more blokes there with plans to almost "live off the land", we need a lot, from air composition to soil composition to frozen water and carbon dioxide deposits and much more.

      odd rock:
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid= 04/08/1 9/1446218&tid=160&tid=134

      new water claims
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid =04/07/2 0/1729235&tid=134&tid=160

      trying to find out a better composition
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.p l?sid=04/07/1 6/208231&tid=160&tid=134&tid=14

      new results on water and methan concentrations
      http://science.slashdot.org/articl e.pl?sid=04/09/2 0/177241&tid=160

      traces of ammonia found
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid= 04/07/1 5/1637207&tid=160&tid=134&tid=14

      more on methane
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?si d=04/03/2 8/1744254&tid=160&tid=134&tid=14

      salty seas
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0 4/03/2 3/1916246&tid=160&tid=134&tid=14

      supporting Zubrin: hematite ore found in apparant abundance
      http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/03/1 8/mars.blue berries/index.html

      Iron sulfur hydrate, suggesting drenched mars
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0 4/03/0 2/1913211&tid=160&tid=134&tid=14

      what could have been mud
      http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=4 6515F 50-5A6F-4C50-A399FF5034713CB3

      I cant remember zubrin mentioning bromide salts but he may have
      http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/marswa ter_ch emistry_040303.html

      water and carbon dioxide ice, i remember the announcements, I wondered how we could have missed it.
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04 /01/2 3/1329247&tid=160&tid=14

      From mud to crusty and water to dry, olivine is found which needs to stay dry and wasn't expected to be found. and new surface texture is crusty.
      http://science.slashdot.org

  5. Ancient Flying Machines in India by GillBates0 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology

    According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer.

    It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound." There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English.

    The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."

    The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas. This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R. Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation located in Mysore.

    Sources: Ancient flying machines (Contains diagrams/details).
    Wikipedia reference to the term-Vimanas

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  6. Interesting man by frankthechicken · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dr. John Wilkins, the Jacobean scientist in question, was quite an interesting chap really.

    For example, with his book, A Discourse concerning a New Planet, he tried to popularise the view of the universe according to Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo. He attempted to explain in the book that the Moon is not purely a shiny, cut out disc but rather it is a world with a landscape like that of the Earth.

    Fairly radical stuff for the time, though admittedly he did publish the book annonymously.

    For more info, try this or this

    1. Re:Interesting man by mattdm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And he reminds the /. editor of a Neal Stephenson story because Wilkins actually features quite prominently in Cryptonomicon (Stephenson makes Wilkins the author of the fictional tome from which the book takes its title) and in Quicksilver (and therefore in the rest of the Baroque Cycle books). Daniel Waterhouse, one of the chief heros/protagonists, is a protege of Wilkins's.

      You can find a lot more about the real (in addition to Stephenson's historical fiction version) Wilkins at Stephenson's metaweb.

  7. Hooke and Boyle? by Royster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Newton was the first to suggest that the same force which keeps us on the Earth was responsible for the orbits of the plants around the sun. The planets are demonstrably further than 20 miles from the surface of the Earth.

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
  8. Sail On! Sail On! by jenkin+sear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Stephenson is great and all, but Phillip Jose Farmer had a great short story on a similar topic about twenty years back.

    Sail On, Sail On! posited that Francis Bacon turned his experiments toward electromagnetism, inventing the radio- except, that instead of electrons, they refered to them as Cherubim. So the AM radios of the day were tuned to various CW's - Cherubim wavelengths, which where the slope the cherubim's wings described as they flew through the ether.

    The story takes place on columbus' ships as he travels to discover America- it's terrific. Strongly recommend digging this one up out of your local library.

    --
    What a strange bird is the pelican, his beak can hold more than his belly can.
  9. Gunpowder Boosters? by curtvdh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if the inventor had any idea how much black powder would have been required to lift even a moderately sized object into orbit? By my calculations, the energy released by the boosters would have atomized said flying machine, plus its unlucky passenger...