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The Extinction of the Programming Species

Max Goff writes "Given the recent chatter surrounding the extinction of the U.S. programmer, /. readers might also be interested in a series of articles I recently penned for java.net -- the Blacksmith and the Bookkeeper (part 1, part 2 and part 3) -- in which I posit that the postmodern programmer (the entire sub-species, not just those domiciled in the U.S.) shares much with the blacksmith of old, and will become just as extinct in relatively short order. It is not due to work visas or outsourcing, but has much more to do with the evolution of work itself."

17 of 491 comments (clear)

  1. The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Programmers can't reproduce without sex, and sadly, we're not getting any.

    1. Re:The real reason by Rand+Huck · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, now, get out of the 70's. Nerds are starting to get increasingly popular with the ladies. They're starting to realize that computing is just about the most sexual thing, what with the fact that we connect male-female sockets together and even have kinky master-slave role playing stuff.

  2. Egad! by TheMediaWrangler · · Score: 5, Funny

    Somebody else RTFA! I don't want to know how I'm gonna die.

    --
    People should not fear what they do not understand; people should fear because they do not understand.
  3. It's all a fad by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tools come and go. Knowledgeable people are here to stay. The problem is many people pretend to have knowledge in fields they're not experts.

    It's the same with diet/exercise. As the years go on new diets/plans come and go yet the old school traditional "just eat less crap, more good and get off your ass" philosophy is still here.

    Wanna make sure you're employable as a software developer? Make sure you're actually knowledgeable about the science *and* the field. It's good to know about things like Java/C++/etc but it's equally important to know about design theory, algorithms, math, etc.

    So if you signed up for some 6 month "computer science" program well don't blame the industry for your unemployable status. Code monkeys are a dime-a-dozen.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:It's all a fad by ericspinder · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sure, knowing what's going on allows you to learn new stuff easily (look at all the C++ programmers who can code up Java once they have a 10 minute tutorial)
      I've seen this, and it ain't pretty. Hell, even most of the old C++ programmers will acknowledge their early Java code tries as misguided. What helps an experienced programmer the most is his (or her) 'general' knowledge of the task of programming itself. Moving from C++ to Java (IMHO) is something like moving from a motor cycle to a car. Sure the car's 4 wheels help balance (ie trash collection), but car can't fit though your old short cuts.
      One day, I think business apps will be programmed using tools something like Visio - drag and drop your 'web service' 'component' match up the inputs and outputs, and connect a GUI at one end (that provides inputs) and a DB 'component' at the other (to provide outputs).
      Bill Gates!, glad to see your here! AKA, they have been predicting this exact situation for the past couple of years. As one who has coded and worked with several web services, Bull Shit. It's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.
      Something like this would be suitable for programming 99% of business applications and would be useable by 'business people', not dedicated programmers.
      Then those business people will say that they program. look on some resumes, you will eventually find someone who can 'program' MS Excel.
      As the tools improve (ie become more automated) you have to keep up with them, or become as anachronistic as the blacksmith mentioned.
      Sure you don't see too many black smiths around these days, but you do see...
      • Metallurgical Tech./Technician
      • Machinist
      • Machine shop workers
      • Steel workers
      • locksmiths
      • and many more...
      Just becuase they don't call themselves Black Smiths, doesn't mean that can't trace back to some guy standing over an avil, pounding away with a hammer.
      --
      The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
  4. Ok by cubicledrone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is not due to work visas or outsourcing, but has much more to do with the evolution of work itself

    Nonsense. It has to do with the wholesale re-negotiation of the social contract between business and the society it sells to.

    Business is no longer satisfied with the simple model of building a product and selling it. That would require work, investment, long-term planning and respect for the skill, education and loyalty of their employees.

    Much better, business says, to sell all of that and simply manufacture brands. The modern workplace is therefore obsolete, because business does not want to pay for it. It's really that simple. People are only useful if they are opening their wallets at a cash register. They are not worthy to be employed and paid a fair wage.

    There are voluminous statistics to support this, but a few should be sufficient. In the last few years, corporate assets have increased 288%. Employee compensation has increased 9%.

    Over half of the working-age population is either a temp, part-time, unemployed or out of the workforce entirely. Read it again: HALF OF THE WORKING-AGE POPULATION IS NOT EMPLOYED FULL-TIME. Companies have no respect for anything: skills, education, experience are all totally meaningless to these companies. ALL that matters is money. That's why it takes five interviews and a credit-check to get hired, but only an e-mail to be fired.

    Unless, of course, we're discussing the price tags of all these "brands." Then, it's "you get what you pay for." Like $2500 for a mattress and $4500 for a television, $175 for a basket of groceries and $50,000 for a car. It's nonsense, of course, but everyone's too busy arguing about the problem. Nobody is interested in hearing the facts. All that matters is money.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  5. No Knuth? by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reader comments on these articles are themselves interesting. I especially think this one is telling: "As a Java programmer I haven't looked up searching and sorting algorithms in Knuth". Being a Java programmer myself, I can certainly appreciate having these kinds of algorithms in a standard library. I still think you should spend some time with Knuth or some other book (or online documentation) and understand how they work. That's one problem I see, not enough programmers today learning the fundamentals and just letting the libraries do all the hard lifting for them.

    Eric
    Thanks to All-Bran, William Shatner 'goes like no man has gone before'

  6. Oh, I see now. by RealProgrammer · · Score: 5, Funny
    From TFA, this clears it all up:
    But as we will see, the impact on the exogenous environment of remittable activities of autonomous agents can be profound indeed.

    At first I thought, "Of course! Everybody knows that." My wife and I were just chatting about that last night before bed. (Maybe the rest of you should use romantic talk like that, and you'd get some more often.)

    Then I realized that the author knew way more words than I do. He must be right.

    --
    sigs, as if you care.
  7. Codeless Development by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A proof of the demise of the programmer the article points out:

    The advent of the Codeless Development Environment (CDE)

    I wonder if these "Codeless Development" environments are they themselves written in a codeless environment. If you have ever coded in a pure gui environments with boxes and connectors and such you will quickly learn the limitations.

  8. Re:great news! by smallpaul · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They have been predicting the demise of programmers since the invention of COBOL in the 60s. It was supposed to turn ordinary business users into programmers thanks to its easy, English-like syntax. We're still waiting. Now this writer is talking about "codeless development environments" which are (like the 5GLs and expert systems of yesteryear) supposed to replace programmers.

  9. Their totally right!! by __int64 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Look, that technology is already here!!
    Behold, a program which is capable of designing a new program!!

    #include <stdio.h>
    int main ( void )
    {
    FILE * output = fopen ( "c:\\newprogram.c", "w" );
    fprintf ( output, "#include <stdio.h>\nint main ( void )\n{\nprintf(\"hello world!\");\nreturn 0;\n}" );
    fclose ( output );
    return 0;
    }

    Were all doomed you fools!!

  10. Re:great news! by delco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now this writer is talking about "codeless development environments" which are (like the 5GLs and expert systems of yesteryear) supposed to replace programmers.

    The way I see it, if the current demand for software systems doesn't change, this argument may possibly hold *SOME* water. However, users keep pushing what they want onto the cutting edge of what current systems can do.

    For an analagous example, look at processing power. When companies come out with faster processors, do we just run the same applications, but now just faster? No. Not only do our standard applications do new and *cough cough* wonderful things, We find new and exciting uses for our extra processing power. which in turn pushes the need for even faster processors.

    It seems that the extra time made available by the eases of case tools, intelligent IDEs and more intuitive syntax is being put to use implementing more sophisticated architectures, developing more robust business logic and implementing more useable software overall.

    Without the increase in productivity associated with evolving programming tools (ie languages,environments,frameworks) would we have more programmers working on projects of the same scale as today, or the same number of programmers working on projects with less usability?

  11. Context matters... by hagbard5235 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You do realize that historically it is normal for around 35-40% of the non-institutionalized working age (ie not imprisoned or commited) population not be employed?

    ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.t xt

    And if you'd like to see about part-time workers you can get recent statistics here:

    http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab5.htm

    Please note, there's nothing wrong with a part of the population being employed part time by choice. The BLS statistics differentiate these as people employed part time for economic/non-economic reasons... if you look at the stats you'll see around 4-5 million people are employed part-time for economic reasons. You can find those stats here:

    http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab5.htm

    According to the BLS the labor force is around 150 million:

    http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab1.htm

    Out of a labor force of around 150 million that means that we have about 3-4% of the labor force working part time because they can't get full time work. While I'd prefer this to be a lower percentage, it doesn't seem to be a great and shocking problem.

    Also, would you please source your data above. Absent primary sourcing I've absolutely no reaon to believe your facts.

  12. The arguement is flawed by LittLe3Lue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First of all, your argument comparing programmers to blacksmiths is already a counter-proof for what you are saying.

    Sure, we don't have many blacksmiths, but let's look at the role of a blacksmith:

    All they did was make things out of metal. They were what we now replaced with machines. The few innovative blacksmiths, who created new advances, were what are now engineers. Nothing has changed - only evolved. And what was once a role for a person is no longer.

    Now, you are saying that there will be no need for programmers in the same sense of how we no longer need blacksmiths. But I ask you, do we have a programmer re-type every line of code for each and every piece of software that is sold? Because that would be the role of a 'blacksmith' programmer.

    A programmer (or large group of) writes the first piece of software, which must usually be innovative, or better then what exists, in order to provide a use. Sure, there are countless pieces of code being re-written, or written poorly, but that is more for learning than for business, at least if they plan to survive. And when there are copies of software in the mainstream it is merely for economical competition, which will never change.

    With the open source movement, or even with API's of old, there is no need to write every line of code over again, but rather to use them to make whatever new piece of software it is that you are planning to make. This involves making software that has never existed, which cannot be automated.

    So I conclude that software programmers have never from the start been blacksmiths, or at least have not been for a very long time. What we provide is a constantly changing, evolving, and adapting use of logic in the form of code. No automation will ever replace that.

    The number of programmers will not be decreasing to extremely low numbers either, since the more advanced software becomes the harder it is for individuals to create it. Large groups are required, for long periods of time (How long does it take to make a new game or operating system compared to 20 years ago).

    You argument is not only wrong in practice, but wrong in theory. It's ridiculous.

  13. Re:great news! by bitingduck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that I've studied for more than 4 years, I learn it is going to be useless.

    College isn't a trade school, and you shouldn't treat it that way. The most important thing you learn in college is how to learn. In many, if not most, fields what you learn in college is outdated by the time you finish (if it wasn't when you started) but it does (or should) give you a strong background from which to learn other things. In graduate school you learn how to learn things that nobody knows yet.

    As an example, an undergraduate physics degree from a pretty decent school will get you to about the mid-1950s as far as physics knowledge, with a few little tastes of stuff from the 70s(and maybe even the present, if you work in someone's lab). You can fake your way into a lot of engineering jobs from there, and if you go to graduate school, you catch up to maybe the 70s (or even 80s and 90s) in a lot of areas, and you take one small piece of physics right up to the present day and become a world expert on it, adding new knowledge at the leading edge. All the stuff you learn along the way provides important context and background knowledge, but the most important thing you learn is how to obtain new knowledge. If you need any of that stuff that you didn't have time to learn (because the field has gotten very large) you at least get the tools to go back and catch up quickly. Computer Engineering has to be much the same, if not more so, since things are changing even faster than in physics.

  14. Re:great news! by singollo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The premise of the article is also similar to the kinds of arguments people were making in the '80s about expert systems:

    "We can develop inference systems for all these professions with voluminous, but highly specialized knowlege bases, and then we won't need the highly trained professionals anymore".

    This also harkens to a software engineering fantasy that we can standardize and simplify hard problems. There are many who disagree with this point of view, including Fred Brooks.

    An interesting take on the failures of software is Jaron Lanier's One Half of a Manifesto. (Actually even more enlightening is the debate that ensued around the manifesto (responses, reply).

  15. pompous and vapid at the same time by uncadonna · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't see much of interest in the article beyond some amazingly bad writing. In fact, someone who writes this badly in their own native language is almost invariably not worth listening to.

    I think the author was rewarded in school for writing long sentences with big, trendy words. This sort of ridiculous blather is the result.

    Some of my favorites:

    • Overuse of double quotes: It is important to note that autonomous agents compete to "make a living" in a fitscape, and as such tend to fill all possible "life sustaining" niches such as to provide for their specific "needs."
    • Wordy and vapid way of saying "sometimes economic activity changes the economy": While this may seem painfully obvious, when it comes to the study of economics, that feedback mechanism (i.e., the fitscape evolves as a result of agent activities) is often dismissed; a function of exogenous variables which are outside the scope of consideration for the problem in question.
    • Is this a poetic essay or a dry academic analysis? Try not to change your mind in the middle of a sentence please. Grotesque neither-fish-nor-fowl writing. At first, the smithy was not aware that his hammer would soon ring no more, that machines would take the place of hammer and anvil, more efficiently creating the tools and weapons for an increasingly sophisticated cultural milieu.
    • Sixth grade level spelling error. A possesive is not a plural. Smithy's also made the tools that were necessary for the daily household chores, such as pots and pans for the fireplace.
    • Uhh, "first order derivative"? If this doesn't rub you the wrong way you've never had a calculus class. There's no law against that, of course, but this comes in a paragraph about the scientific method! And the essence of measurement, in a capitalist system, will always be a first-order derivative of the much-maligned bottom line--it's not personal, it's just business.
    • Let me introduce you to the idea of a dictionary. "rubric" means "name", or at best "name of category". Applying a similar rubric to the postmodern computer programmer might now yield some insight as to the coming fortunes of that trade.
    • (add your own comment here, I'm ovewhelmed) The anarchistic, eclectic, and often incoherent ramblings that characterize much of the Pomo Jones mindset belie the importance and value it may conceptually provide. Computer programmers are icons of the postmodern age and sometimes idiosyncratic of its nature. As much as film, and more than television, architecture, or art, the postmodern programmer has enabled the cyber-collage, globally diverse viewless worldview that is the hallmark of Pomo entrails. Indeed, computer programmers (those of the Java, C#, and Perl caste, at least) are the Pomo elite.
      uh-huh
    • and here I thought it was about algorithm and syntax... Today, programming means breaking the bounded, solitary-node paradigm, enjoining a network that is effectively limitless but unique at every node.
      Sure, they'll mechanize that one any day...
    • Ooh, let's throw in a random bit of computer history to show we know something about computers. But just as the entire notion of "writing code" has changed dramatically since the earliest _stacked job batch systems_ [link to an undergrad CS lecture] of the 1960s ...
    • "ignorant"? The vast majority of coding today is ignorant of such constraints.
    • Do you know anyone who talks like this? The fact that the nature of programming is changing even as the demand for programming skills has abated, to serve what is otherwise an increasing global demand for IT-related products, should be a glaring indicator and something of a concern to skeptics; even the computer industry is not immure from the ephemeralizing virtuous cycles wr
    --
    mt