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30 Years Of Dungeons And Dragons

vasqzr writes "CNN has a story about Dungeons and Dragons celebrating its 30th birthday. 'An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday, said Charles Ryan, brand manager for role-playing games at Wizards of the Coast, a Renton, Washington, company that owns Dungeons & Dragons.'"

11 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. Nice, Sort Of by mfh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    D&D is such a great game. I would like to thank Ed Greenwood for his wonderful contributions to the game in the form of the Forgotten Realms. Truly inspirational work this stuff is, or at least was. But sadly TSR has gone downhill since being eaten by the WoSC group, who used to just make a bunch of playing cards. Before you all pipe in and tell me to shut the hell up (because 3rd gen r00lz), I'll have you know that any time a module presents NINE 10th level fighters together as a battle, like in the Ravenloft adventures in and around Bluetspur, you have to ask if the depth of the game has been replaced by the stats that go with it. The answer has to be that the game has indeed shifted from a game of detailed and rich storytelling, such as with Ed Greenwood's additions, to a game of character advancement by hacking and slashing monsters, and people.

    I'm sorry but TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Nice, Sort Of by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To me Forgotten Realms IS D&D just about...I started D&D with the FR setting (improvising, just using maps, not the acutal FR campaign setting) and I really love it..there's so much back-material that a DM can incorporate and so many places and whatnot. Some people may call me unoriginal for not wanting to create my own worlds, but frankly I don't think that a campaign suffers much from having a ready body of terrain and culture to take from...

      Either way, down one for Ed Greenwood (and pray his books come out in paperback faster!)

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    2. Re:Nice, Sort Of by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ravenloft and Spelljammer were 2nd edition. And yes, it was getting lame at that point. Ahem, relatively speaking.

      But 3rd edition was a great revision. The core rules are wonderfully streamlined, yet complex. The system has its flaws and faults still, but melee in 3e was the most managable system of any edition since Basic D&D.

      D&D always runs into a problem where in order to keep selling books they have to publish more and more titles, and after a while the well runs dry and they just don't playtest or quality control like they should. But if you stick to the core books and your own house rules, it's a great game.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    3. Re:Nice, Sort Of by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can understand (and agree with) this argument if all one does is use the pre-prepared campaigns and adventures put out by WotC. But if you're designing your own campaign, I don't see how this need be true. I can't tell you you're wrong, since I haven't run a game or played under D&D3 rules (since I'm not playing or running games at all these days). But you don't have to use the campaigns that WotC puts out.

      Put another way, what is it about D&D3 (as opposed to AD&D2 or AD&D1 or original D&D -- don't know much about D&D2 myself) that prevents a creative referee from desigining an interesting campaign, containing involving stories, and presenting them in an engaging fashion?

  2. Changing Demographics? by subrosas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've seen sailors in the USN play D&D, lawyers play D&D, children play D&D with their parents. I've seen sysadmins play, financial advisors play, even a high school teacher or two.
    D&D has left the basement rec room geek nirvana of the early '80s and gone elsewhere, as the article (barely) alluded to.

    1. Re:Changing Demographics? by skroz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's apparently HUGE in the USN, particularly on submarines. The crewmen are trapped down in little sardine cans for months on end with little to do when not on duty, so a lot play D&D.

      --
      -- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
    2. Re:Changing Demographics? by AndroidCat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At least they wouldn't get too many arguments when the ref says "No, you can't swing your two-handed sword or ride your horse in that narrow dungeon corridor."

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  3. Old or young? by mhollis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back in the Middle Ages (the 1980s) I had a group of about ten people, male and female playing regularly. We played one dungeon for about four months and it was then that I started allowing everyone to keep their characters and started reading history in order to accomodate their increasing character strengths and abilities.

    We were also playing games on Apple ][ computers...

    Sadly, I moved out of the area we were playing in to accept a job where I have now lived for 20 years. Last I heard the group still met, though once monthly. One of the girls in our group married one of the boys (they were well-suited for each other even though I always thought their characters took out their relationship frustrations on each other) and they now have two children.

    "So, Daddy, how did you meet mommy?"
    "Actually, she cast a spell that felled an orc that was just about to kill me."

    Another one of the girls married, then divorced one of the boys -- then married another boy from the group. They have no children, which is probably a good thing if my memory about their temperment serves me

    "So how did you two meet, anyway?"
    "I was married to one knight when he came in and swept me off my feet and onto his white charger, while fighting off an underworld demon. I cast a spell of enchantment on him and the rest is history."

    Funny thing is, I'm still unmarried.

    "Sincere, erudite dungeonmaster seeks....

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  4. New round, roll for initiative! by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 5, Interesting

    D&D really was one of those rare cases of something "new". Before the net was popular, it was a great tool for social networking for geeks. Every tech job I've ever had came not from my experience or my education, but from contacts made over the years around gaming tables.

    Alas, it's a also a good example of how success is measured differently between sellers and consumers. D&D never really went into decline around here, but once you own the main rule books and some dice, you don't _need_ anything else and so game stores moved more heavily into card games where the profits were.

    The d20 licensing scheme is very, very cool, although I have to admit that I still don't quite trust TSR/Wizards/Hasbro (their first reaction to the net was similar to the RIAA but then after an initial fan-relations-disaster they changed their tune and actually made an effort to reach out to the fans and address legitimate need to be able to share).

    It's interesting watching a second generation of gamers start to grow up (and yes, there is a large and healthy population of them). They don't have to be saddled with as much of the "it's evil!" baggage (it's still out there, but weakened as the geek have inherited the earth)

    1. Re:New round, roll for initiative! by DoctorDeath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My younger daughter (13yo) found some of my old AD&D books and has started an interest in it. She carries the monster guide with her and uses it as an inspiration for drawing. I guess the new generation will continue where we old timers left off. Happy B-day D&D!

      --
      Sig temporarily out of service.
  5. Don't start planning for D&D's 35th birthday by Dracos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    First, some history.

    TSR originally published D&D. In the early to mid 90's TSR was publishing a lot of support material (modules, sourcebooks, settings) to keep sales up. As time went on, the quality and sales of this material went way down. TSR eventually owed $30 million to various debtors, primarily their printers. In 1997, WOTC bought TSR with the profits from Magic: The Gathering. Then Pokemon happened. In 1999, a struggling Hasbro bought WOTC to get the Pokemon cash cow. D&D Third Edition was released in 2000, after a year delay, under the d20 license. In 2003, D&D 3.5 was released.

    WOTC had an understanding of RPGs, because the founders actually played them. Hasbro, on the other hand, seems to only understand board games for kids. Pokemon dried up, and they paniced. this is the big reason for 3.5, not "fixing things".

    Not long after 3.5 came out, rumors began circulating that work had already begun on 4th Edition, and that it would not inherit the d20 license. If true, this would cripple all the companies that take advantage of the d20 license. The d20 license, by the way, is not granted in perpetuity, and can be altered at will according to the licensor's whim (look up the Book of Erotic Fantasy for proof).

    Obviously, what Hasbro doesn't get is that RPG core books have a quite lengthy product cycle, but their scramble for income forces them to ignore it.

    When I asked the general manager of my local game store what he though of the 4th edition rumors, the first thing he said was "I'm not going to buy it." (He was already annoyed at the existence of 3.5). Of course, he'd put it on his store shelves, he just won't personally own it.

    A friend of mine, who still plays M:TG, has a conspiracy theory based on Hasbro realizing their mistake in buying WOTC and making the best of it. He believes Hasbro is quietly moving all of their debt into WOTC, and eventually plan to spin it off into its own entity or try to sell it. Good for Hasbro, but would be the end of D&D. I don't completely buy it, but the way big business is run nowadays, it wouldn't surprise me.