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Court says: 'Terror Fears Can't Curb Liberty'

jettoblack writes "Finally, a glimmer of sanity... according to the AP, "Fear of a terrorist attack is not sufficient reason for authorities to search people at a protest, a federal appeals court has ruled..." Another great quote: "We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly over..." Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. "Sept. 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country.""

7 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Re:I don't understand. by Tyndmyr · · Score: 2, Informative
    Nobody else generally is, unless its an installation that handles classified stuff. Besides, generally the protesters are outside the base.

    Its a logical conclusion really...I can imagine a massive crowd waiting behind two detectors for someone to find their change. Not to mention the liberty issue.

    --
    Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
  2. Re:Security and Liberty by tid242 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Bravo! I believe it was Ben Franklin who said "Those who would exchange liberty for security will neither get nor deserve either."

    "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" source

    i'd hate for this fabulous quote to get eventually get bastardised as Murphy's Law has been.

    All in good faith, mind you, friend.

    -tid242

    --

    With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy and with science. --Carl Sagan

  3. Re:There is hope for my waning faith in Americans. by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1, Informative

    That's OK, they probably stole it from somewhere else. It's an old joke.

    The fact of the matter is the FBI and other counter-terrorism agencies in the U.S. have prevented terrorist attacks. Right now al-Qaeda is suffering from a credibility problem among the nutcases in the world. They made several smaller hits around the world (Madrid, Indonesia, etc), but they haven't pulled off anything in the U.S. since 9/11. Hopefully they never will, but not for lack of trying.

    This isn't proof that Bush's Doctrine is working, because that is proving a negative, (i.e., you will only know for sure if it fails), but right now the hornets are swarming in Iraq and Afghanistan, and among us Americans, I'm glad it's over there.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  4. Re:Security and Liberty by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thanks for correcting that. It sounds even better the way he actually said it. Interestingly enough, the Wikipedia link for Murphy's Law lead me to another one about Systemantics, which is relevant to the "Homeland Security" issue.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  5. Re:No Shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The last attack on US soil was in 93.

    *cough*Oklahoma City*cough*

  6. Re:No Shit by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Informative

    You mean the list below? None of those bills even begin to impliment the programs he says he is for. Perhaps you should read them next time.

    Items 1 through 48 of 48

    1. S.CON.RES.84 : A concurrent resolution recognizing the sacrifices made by members of the regular and reserve components of the Armed Forces, expressing concern about their safety and security, and urging the Secretary of Defense to take immediate steps to ensure that the reserve components are provided with the same equipment as regular components.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 11/21/2003) Cosponsors (None)
    Committees: Senate Armed Services
    Latest Major Action: 11/21/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

    2. S.300 : A bill to award a congressional gold medal to Jackie Robinson (posthumously), in recognition of his many contributions to the Nation, and to express the sense of Congress that there should be a national day in recognition of Jackie Robinson.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 2/4/2003) Cosponsors (69)
    Committees: Senate Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
    Latest Major Action: 10/20/2003 Held at the desk.
    Note: For further action, see H.R. 1900, which became Public Law 108-101 on 10/29/2003.

    3. S.305 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to include in the criteria for selecting any project for the low-income housing credit whether such project has high-speed Internet infrastructure.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 2/5/2003) Cosponsors (1)
    Committees: Senate Finance
    Latest Major Action: 2/5/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.

    4. S.318 : A bill to provide emergency assistance to nonfarm-related small business concerns that have suffered substantial economic harm from drought.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 2/5/2003) Cosponsors (19)
    Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship; House Small Business
    Latest Major Action: 4/1/2003 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Small Business.

    5. S.503 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow increase the minimum tax credit where stock acquired pursuant to an incentive stock option is sold or exchanged at a loss.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 3/4/2003) Cosponsors (3)
    Committees: Senate Finance
    Latest Major Action: 3/4/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.

    6. S.530 : A bill to amend title 5, United States Code, to create a presumption that a disability or death of a Federal employee in fire protection activities caused by any of certain diseases is the result of the performance of such employee's duty.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 3/5/2003) Cosponsors (1)
    Committees: Senate Governmental Affairs
    Latest Major Action: 6/20/2003 Referred to Senate subcommittee. Status: Committee on Governmental Affairs referred to Subcommittee on Financial Management, the Budget, and International Security.

    7. S.577 : A bill to establish the Freedom's Way National Heritage Area in the States of Massachusetts and New Hampshire, and for other purposes.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 3/7/2003) Cosponsors (3)
    Committees: Senate Energy and Natural Resources
    Latest Major Action: 3/7/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Energy and Natural Resources.

    8. S.633 : A bill to modify the contract consolidation requirements in the Small Business Act, and for other purposes.
    Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] (introduced 3/17/2003) Cosponsors (5)
    Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship
    Latest Major Action: 3/17/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.

    9. S.822 : A bill to create a 3-year pilot pro

  7. Bad Analysis by theghost · · Score: 2, Informative
    1) Those stats are misleading. Not surprising considering the source. Those stats only compared care options given to pregnant women, but Planned Parenthood provides many other services, such as gynecological exams and contraceptive prescriptions.

    Some stats for 2002 from Planned Parenthood:
    • PP provided 101,000 educational programs to more than 1.4 million people.
    • Reversible contraception clients: 2,208,483
    • Emergency contraception clients: 633,756
    • Abortions: 227,375
    • HIV testing clients: 175,468
    • Prenatal care: 15,860
    • Breast exams: 1,062,727
    • Adoption referrals: 1,963


    Abortion procedures comprise less than 4% of the services Planned Parenthood provides. Consider also the fact that more than 42% of the services Planned Parenthood provides are directly geared towards preventing unplanned pregnancies. Now think about how many more unwanted children/abortions there might be if not for Planned Parenthood.

    2) Even if we only look at those stats (i'll use the more recent numbers) and conclude that only 7% of the pregnant women Planned Parenthood treats choose non-abortive options, you cannot conclude that this is because of bias inherent in Planned Parenthood itself. You must take into account the fact that there are far more providers of prenatal care and adoption counseling than there are abortions. In essence, people wanting abortions often have PP as their only option, while those seeking other options have many choices. That suggests that the bias does not exist in Planned Parenthood, but in the clients who come there.
    --
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.