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Australian Government Agency Moves Towards Linux
An anonymous reader writes "ZDNet Australia is reporting that Centrelink, the Australian government agency responsible for distributing social security payments, is investigating Novell's Open Enterprise Server as a method of consolidating huge chunks of its network. Centrelink's national manager is quoted as saying: "We have to look at remote access, virus protection, security. Linux has those capabilities but we have to assure our more senior executives that these boxes have the same level of security and protection as the commercial products""
I'd like a discount on my Windows licenses please!
I'm sure in the end, M$ will give them big price breaks ad they'll go with windoz.
Am I being to suspicious?
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
... the same level of security and protection as the commercial products
Commercial products = Windows? No, we don't want Linux to have the same level of security and protection, do we?
I vaugely recall that Centrelink's network was the largest in the southern hemisphere (by user/node count).
Could anyone please confirm/refute this?
ZombieEngineer
Centrelink is actually the union of about half a dozen systems inherited from previous government agencies. Some of the systems run on mainframes, some on Novell, who knows what else. All of these systems don't really talk to each other well, and integration problems have been a nightmare for quite some time.
It'll be interesting to see precisely what they're planning to migrate to Linux.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
As an aussie, I'd love to see this happen, but lets hope its serious and not another "pretend" move to Linux to negotiate better prices with their existing vendors.
Normally "existing vendors" is Microsoft, but from the article it seems they're currently using a good non-MS mix of Novell, Lotus, SAP and Oracle on Solaris.
From the article:
he will have to reassure the organisation's senior executives.
Tell them: "If we migrate your desktop to Linux, don't worry, we will also include a game of Solitaire."
I don't need a signature.
Everything Centrelink does is web based anyway. All they need are some mid end desktops running and firefox and they'd be set.
When I dealt with them I was sitting there thinking: Hmmm Internet Explorer under Windows 2000. Fairly expensive and a waste of a software license if you ask me. I also remember thinking that this department would be the ideal place for a large linux rollout simply because they have no need for standard (read: Microsoft centric) apps like word and excel because everything they do is Web server/client based with all the heavy stuff on the backend servers.
"And then I visited Wikipedia
One of the reasons large corporations and enterprises are reluctant to go down the open source route is defintely vendor support... most are willing to fork out the cash to have the peace of mind that they can sue your ass if something goes wrong.
The friendliest digital photography forums on the net!
Linux is a pretty common platform here at the Bureau of Met., but I guess that's always going to be the case in a scientific organisation. It's certainly not thought of as strange, though.
http://melbournephilosophy.com/
"...the same level of security and protection as the commercial products"
Novell is just as commercial as other vendors, when will they learn that GPL software is "Free as in freedom"? And many of the packages in Open Enterprise Server isn't more free than Netware used to be.
Damnit, if Centrelink gets their computer systems actually working, not only will the sheer shock trigger heart attacks in elderly pensioners around the country, but they might realise that I haven't been to a scheduled interview in 3 years and cut off my dole!
Hell, they might start noticing that I put crewmembers of Babylon 5 in the "employers I've contacted about a job" section of the fortnightly form!
Go back to Microsoft, Centrelink, for the good of dole-bludging geeks everywhere. Do it for us.
(Incidentally, I've, uh, hacked into this account, don't go tracking Elaurian down now...)
does this mean the australian government is going to try to run w32.whatever worm on Linux to see if it spreads? and if it doesn't is that considered a failure to meet the commercial standard?
they are switching but why if the commercial security ware is the standard to go by?
i'm confused
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Remember when Telstra (Australias largest telecoms provider) went to Linux. Then it turned out they were doing it just to get a discount from MS?
Hilarious. Wonder if this is the same. I can't imagine an australian government agency would use any software that doesn't contribute to the American Corporate machine. I'm sure that's illegal under John Howard.
Is surely what the article is meant to be titled?
I think M$ has proven that software companies are pretty much invunerable to any lawsuits due to defective products.
I mean, they have consistanly released defective products AND figured out how to force you to upgrade to the next defective product without fixing the first.
They are better than drug dealers!
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Actually it's Mark Latham who is doing the whining but not the winning :-)
Latham obviously doesn't like Linux, he looks like an "in the closet" Mac user, but there is a chance he uses Windows.
Good to know my tax dollars are supporting Linux...
But keep in mind that the gain from switching to Linux comes first after a few year. Initially, teaching everyone involved Linux will be a cost equal to the cost of commercial software licenses. These costs will soon go away, and the Linux software will keep on working for years - free.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
"They want to be still able to run funny executable downloads from their golf buddies and surf porn sites without being caught in potentially embarassing situations. We're working on easily enabling these things in Linux by enabling an 'I-didn't-do-it,-it-was-a-virus' button".
Labours official policy is the adoption of open source products wherever possible (though that is I'm sure open to interpretation, it is still better than Liberal's policy)
All these 'WTF? Linux as secure as Windows? Hahahaha' comments are completely offtopic. If you actually read the article you'll find that the current systems are Novell, Solaris and Lotus based. Linux is the easy option for migration, and Microsoft is barely even in the running.
Centrelink's national manager was further quoted:
The biggest challenge in moving to linux is burning ISOs on CDRs that spin the other way, or as we in OZ like to say, the right way. We have hired a local firm to write a clever utility based on ancient boomerang technology to fix that problem.
Those clever antepodeans! is there no stopping Linux in the southern hemisphere? We'll leave you with one more quote:
Due to our nearness to Antarctica, we have an unlimited supply of penguins. I'm very excited.
well, no.. Novell Open Enterprise Server != Linux. It's primarily Netware, with bits of Linux thrown in. Extra, Extra, Read All About It!
Some choice quotes:
1. What is Novell Open Enterprise Server?
[...]Open Enterprise Server delivers some of the best technologies and services developed by the open source community, as well as fully developed proprietary services that routinely solve business problems for enterprise customers. (because only proprietary services can solve business problems for enterprise customers?)
5. What is happening to NetWare (and NetWare 7)?
NetWare is a critical component of IT infrastructures around the world serving millions of users. It will continue to be the platform of choice for many customers. The NetWare roadmap is converging with the best the Linux community has to offer, SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server, and together they will make up Novell Open Enterprise Server. NetWare is not gone, but continues on as an important part of this new product offering. As Ed Anderson, vice president of Platform Services at Novell said in the Future of NetWare article, "Let me state this as clearly as I can: Novell is making investments in both NetWare and Linux. Novell Open Enterprise Server is proof we are supporting both, and they will be combined into one package. This will continue until customers' needs change."
8. How will Novell Open Enterprise Server be licensed?
Novell Open Enterprise Server will be licensed on a per-user basis. (the last company to try and license linux on a per-user basis was Caldera, just before they became SCO)
Let me repeat - Novell OES is a *Netware* product, with bits of SLES9 thrown in. This is a *Netware* play. Linux is being used for marketing purposes, as well to ensure that real applications will actually work, since people stopped supporting Netware ages ago - in particular, look at FAQ number 22.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Maybe I can get some work there instead of being one on their "clients"
The Australian Tax Office (ATO) has also been thinking about Linux for while.
The CSA (Child Support Agency), a branch of the ATO has a terrible database, and theirs links into Centrelink's DB. At present Centrelink's systems are very poor indeed.
I'm sorry to sound cynical, but the Australian government often takes the cheapest option, and doesn't put in much in to system design or BPR. It's entirely likely that whether they use Linux or not, their systems will be underfunded, and most likely will have little to no design. Linux might get yet another boost from it's adoption in terms of PR, but I wouldn't want to make a bet on enjoying the end product.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
There are other examples of big Aussie Govt agencies going against the Redmond beast. I know for a fact that the NSW Govt is pushing open source/open standards software.
-- james
We're both correcting the parent post, but I'll just tighen up your response:
(Novell services, GroupWise, eDirectory, etc, etc, AND the SUSE Linux services, postfix, apache, use yast and all that).
The key change being "AND". There is no restriction on using both the traditional Linux services and the Novell offerings. The kernel is regular SuSe Linux, everything else works be it from Novell or all the SuSE stuff.
Only big ligs use sigs.
My friend works in Childrens Services for the city of Toronto, and they have been running thin clients on Linux for some time now. It may be the case in more depts too, I don't know.
I can't get many details out of her because she is not very technical. But from what I can make out, the desktop is GNOME, and they were until recently given access to Microsoft Office using rdesktop. But thats changed and now all they have is OpenOffice.
Its interesting to note that the staff are very unhappy with the situation. They say that OpenOffice is slow, and doesn't have thing like Avery labels templates. They also were given no training.
My point is when doing a migration like this, show some TLC to users.
Nobody would buy it.
When he took the jugs, relabeled them and tripled the price, it sold like hotcakes. He sighed all the way to the bank.
People make the mistake of presuming that price -> quality all over the place. We may buy the $3.00 loaf of bread at Safeway without even bothering to try the $1.50 loaf at the corner bakery. There is just so much stuff out there that we ignore simply because it hasn't been advertized on tv (or whatever your favorite media outlet).
Because we know and love Linux, we think that Execs are stupid to quesion it's value, but we skip other jewels in our lives because we don't know them and the packaging isn't as slick.
(( this includes both products and people )).
Don't discount them, and don't disparage them.. They're human just like us. They need to be taught. When they realize what they missed they'll kick themselves. If we kick them now, they'll just run away and never give us the chance to teach them.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.