Slashdot Mirror
China Closes 1,600 "Internet Bars"
Kujila writes "According to a Chinese Reuters article, China has closed close to 1,600 "Internet Bars" (probably the equivalent of 'Internet Cafes' stateside) and inflicted up to $12.1 million worth of fines upon the establishment owners. The Internet Bars were apparently letting young children pay to play violent and adult-only PC games. China inspected a grand-total of 1.8 million bars, and ordered about 18,000 of those bars to "to stop operation for rectification," It's estimated that 18% of China's Internet population is composed of minors."
But it seems that this is what happens when a country is allowed any sort of say in what constitutes "acceptable" use of anything. It's more or less well known that China's been firewalling off various chunks of the internet for years [ can't let those subversive ideas in, y'know, the citizenry might get a notion to revolt ] and this would just be more of the same.
Keep in mind, however, there are some parts of the United States that have a similar mindset. I mind me of the Maine library association....there were grants given out to give them internet access, but with a catch, that they had to have filtering software installed. Of course, many people cried "censorship!" and let slip the dogs of protest, but in the end, the puritans fought harder to keep all the corrupting influences from our youth, etc, etc.
Forgive my rambling...I'm not caffeinated yet. ^^;
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
I belive slashdot should create a Topic called "China", with a little red flag as Icon. Last month we have seen a lot of China's stories, indeed most of them are about China shutting something down.
Can I shout that at the statue of liberty? Or has that been closed for another three years out of fear of terrurrrrr?
That's not really a fair comparison. Change Statue of Liberty to White House maybe. That's a bit closer. Of course, if you start raving like that in front of the White House you'll be whisked away by some unfriendly guys with sunglasses...especially if your skin is brown.
Anyone in the DC area want to try it and report back?
Well, it's merely an amusing anecdote not meant to demonstrate anything much one way or the other, but this is true.
A year before the protest and massacre in Tien An Men, I visited Beijing as a backpack tourist and went to Tien An Men square where I proceeded, along with some British accomplices, to do hand stands and various low end acrobatics in an attempt to attract attention.
Well, it worked great. In seconds we had a huge crowd. It wasn't really that we were so impressive, but more that people wanted to see what everybody else was gawking at and the crowd itself was what was drawing the crowd.
So, the higher up cops --there's actually many, many different levels of cops in Mainland China with only some actually having any authority-- came in and pulled the crowd apart and told us we were being bad and not to do it again.
That's it. That's all that happened. We were clearly trouble makers, but we weren't arrested or even hassled.
So, yeah what happened in that same sqauare a year later was a terrible tragedy, but Mainland China might not be as scarry as you think.
On the other hand, I've been called names by cops in the US over the loudspeaker of their partol cars and when I get pulled over, I regularly have my car searched from top to bottom looking for drugs when the stop was allegedly for things like a bent license plate or some such nonsense.
Of course, Tianamen Square could never happen in the US, now could it?
Kent State University - May 4 1970. National Guard opens fire on Students protesting the Vietnam War. 4 Dead, 9 Injured.
Jackson State University - May 15 1970. Police open fire on a protesting crowd. 2 Dead, 12 Injured.
Just because the number of dead is smaller, do not dismiss this. When threatened, Governments will fight back.
I spent July and August of this year in China probably frequenting those dens of vice which were shut down. A long time expat there explained it to me this way:
Alot of those internet bars are operating without a business license. First, from the governments perspective they are losing revenue they are "owed" for giving business the "right" to operate. Second, these now illegitimate internet bars certainly will not pay taxes. Faced with losing RMB, the government naturally wants to solve this and exert "control."
So do you go door to door and check to see if 1,600 internet bars have their license? Gimme a break. No, no, no; shut it all down. Then open them back up one by one. This time you know where they are and who has paid their dues.
It's business. It has little to do with free speech, violent video games, or porno firewalls (by the way, that firewall just means you have to click that link twice or three times before you can use the internet for what it was made i.e. to view porn.)
There is a reaction that quickly happens every time Slashdot has an article on China's suppression of free speech and association. Apologists for China always trot out past transgressions committed by the USA government. How is that relevant? Does a bad act comitted by the USA give China a 'free' bad act? Aren't Tianenman Square and Kent State both wrong on fundamental moral principle? Why would anyone use one to excuse the other?
I think most people are uncomfortable making moral judgements these days. I'm not. I judge this action by China to be wrong. This is true whether you hate George Bush or not.
Don't you get it, this is exactly the reason why countries around the world dislike the United States.
Democracy is good, but its not for everyone.
If you're forcing democracy down its throat, you're only gonna end up harming yourself. Just like how the Bush Administration is trying to push democracy in the Middle-East.
The people are not ready yet!
Other forms of government can be just as effective. So they are different, well thats culture for you!
And China' ain't bad, they are opening up, I've been in China for over a month and it feels just like home, you get to eat, sleep, shop, work, freedom to choose your jobs, buy materialistic things. What more?
China has been living with far worst government for over 2-5k years now (read: Monarchy; Emporers) and if you take a step back, Communism is actually much less strict.
Let the country run itself.
I've heard that argument before. People choose to match the profile, so it's their fault. Words only spoken by someone that's never matched the profile.
I'm white, very wasp, and I grew up in a medium well-to-do household. I'm not a preppie, but I look like my background, and pretty much always have. I don't get bothered by the police unless I'm speeding. Even then, they are polite and reasonable when dealing with me (and I to them).
In college I got to be good friends with a black guy (large muscular build to make it worse). Whenever he was in the car I'd get pulled over and hassled a LOT over BS reasons, frequently, police would unsnap their holsters and keep their hands on their guns the whole time they spoke to us. The conversations would be fridgedly polite and unreasonable, at best.
I've been pulled over twice inside of 15 minutes while driving from one side of Dallas to the other. Both times we were both pulled out of the car and questioned seperatly, mostly about drugs. It's was frequent enough that it was a sort of punishment, even though no charges are ever brought, and I certainly never went to court.
The difference between being inside the profile and outside is dramatic. But the kinds of choices that put you inside or outside of the profile (having a black friend, for example) aren't the kinds of choices we should have to make to avoid running problems with the law. If your born the wrong color, and don't have the money for nice clothes (or people don't like your taste in clothes), you're just screwed.
Now, I will follow up. My friend and I haven't been pulled over in nearly 10 years. I don't know if times have changed, if it's because we're older, or what. Probably a little of all of the above.
plus-good, double-plus-good
>you think Slashdot is accessible from within the >Great Firewall? Any Chinese readers out there?
It was when I lived there 6 months ago.
Things can change, day to day.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
To clarify: China had two revolutions ... but thats not my point.
My point is: when the colonial war/revolution in USA happend, the USA allready was developed.
When the first revolution in China happend, China was an Empire. That was 100 years ago.
In my eyes China hs now still 100 years left until it has reached the state of civilization USA had in 1789. 1789 was not that much democratc IMHO. It was still wilderness where a few people where allowed to vote.
That situation we now have in China. What do you expect? Utter peace and harmony, just because you have now a voring office?
Come on, USAs voting system is a mere joke and is considered worse then most third world countries (voting) systems. It does not help if you lay back and say: at least we have one.
The problem in China is not lack of democracy, its corruption, just like in most other modern states as well.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Anyway, if you're 16 you can do whatever you want in a netbar. Watch porn. Play CS. Whatever.
:-)
In that respect, yes, China is less totalitarian than the U.S., as they allow things like porn at a lower age than we do...
But how about free-speech restrictions (can you talk about Tianenman there?)? Forced prison-labor camps? Childbirth restrictions (1 child per woman, last I checked)? These are not the policies of a non-totalitarian society.
In China there's no age limit on alcohol or cigarette purchases. In the US, there is. Does this make the US a totalitarian state? I don't think it does.
Depends on how you define "totalitarian." I would argue that yes, these are traits of totalitarianism -- it's the responsibility of parents to ensure that their children are not doing the things they ought not do.
I think there can be room for cultural differences in how certain things which are both socially and physically affectatious are treated though (e.g. drinking alcohol often leads to accidents with previously-uninvolved people, so we restrict that from children, but political speech on the Internet hurts nobody, no matter how repulsive, because it still requires actions on the part of an individual somewhere to turn those words into harm).
The U.S. is far from free of totalitarian influence, even on such things we tend to hold dear as free-speech, but relative to other nations, the U.S. is still less-totalitarian than most (though Bush has been working overtime to change this...).
Of course, the US is more tolerant of violence than some cultures. Other non Judeo-Christian cultures are a lot more tolerant of sex.
Exactly; I think there can be room for cultural differences in the treatment of some issues. Sex is the classic U.S. vs. Europe example...
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
First... people don't typically go to net bars to 'spread anti-governmental messages.' I don't know how hard the government would work to track you if you did, provided you weren't trying to organize some kind of protest. Criticism on the local level is just fine. You don't want to threaten the boys in Beijing, of course, but Beijing is a long ways away from most things and not really a very present force in the average persons life. It's a felony, for that matter, to threaten the US president, even as a joke. (yes, I know we can vote him out of office.)
I haven't heard the $500 for a porn site quote, but that seems like an awful lot. They could get away with offering $50 and it would be half many people's wages. The Teachers I worked with made $125/month plus free housing, and still managed to dress decently. It doesn't sound accurate. There was very easy access to all kinds of porn when I went there.
Second... There still is some fascist element to China. Rights of the state above the individual, and all. You don't want to pose a credible threat to the boys in Beijing. But things aren't as bad as most folks outside seem to imagine, and the government just isn't as organized as most outsiders tend to portray. People are a little edgy about talking politics, despite the relative calm considering Mao's "let so and so many flowers bloom" statement back during the CR, etc. But they do.
The government controls things like the mass media, but more through censorship than outright violence. I was on TV once while there, and it was interesting to hear things spelled out very explicitly. Don't criticize the government. Don't suggest that China has any racial problems. Don't talk about sex or use profanity. It will be edited out... can't remember if there was anything else...
Just don't trust ANY statistics that come out of China. There's no attempt made at either honesty or accuracy.
And when it comes down to it, rule of law is a little shaky for Chinese citizens. What you can get away with depends on your money and your connections. If you know the right party members, you can literally get away with murder.
I was told stories about well connected folks who did. It's an open secret apparently.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.