Florida E-Voting Machine Fails

cmason32 writes "An optical voting machine memory card failed earlier today in Daytona Beach, Florida, sending election officials scrambling to secure the 13,000 paper receipts. Without the paper ballots, all 13,000 votes would have been lost. Considering how close some predict this election to be, losing that many ballots would be catastrophic. Let's hope that we won't see any more of this in the next 24 hours, and that these problems are fixed before 2006."

Comments

Title may be misleading.

[cbiffle]

The title of this article may be misleading for those who equate "e-voting" with "touchscreen machines."

The machine that failed was an optical scan machine. This is like a scantron for school exams; it's the type we use here in Arizona. You fill in little arrows and it reads which ones are darkened. There are still paper ballots that go into a lock box under the machine.

Personally, I don't think this is "e-voting" at all and that the title is just plain wrong, but since optical scan machines do, indeed, use electrons, I suppose it's arguable.

These are the good electronic voting machines

[theCoder]

I live in Brevard county, which is just south of the county in question. The machine that failed optically scans the ballots just like a scan-tron machine does (we have the same type in Brevard county). Voters fill in bubbles for the candidates they want, and the machine scans and counts the votes. The ballots are saved for just such a problem. Honestly, I don't know why all the electronic voting isn't like this. It's incredibly simple and efficient.

As to whether more problems like this will occur that will actually lose votes, I hope it does. I hope thousands of votes are lost and that the outcome is affected. That's the only way we'll be able to get rid of the paperless voting machines once and for all.

Re:These are the good electronic voting machines

[Hard_Code]

Considering that almost anybody that has attended public school knows how to fill out a Scan-Tron sheet blindfoled and upside down, I'd say that is a good criteria for usability. Well, I guess if you're not blind or something, in which case the electronic machines don't really help either. I don't understand why we need full-on generic purpose computing processors and on-screen displays and bullshit, just to perform a multiple choice selection. Come on, it's not that hard. It's embarrassing.

Do the machines run slashcode?

[SoCalChris]

Seriously, slashdot hasn't been working right all morning.

And the /. editors bitch about Diebold trying to cover up and ignore defects in the software...

So who wants to be the first to say...

[firephreek]

I told you so?

What about the fallout from this? Who's liable? Can we sue companies like Diebold (or whatever manufacturer created this particular machine) for this sort thing?

List of irregularities

[thelenm]

ABC News has a continuously-updated list of irregularities from around the country.

On the radio this morning, I heard something about a couple thousand votes already present on some electronic voting machines in Philadelphia before the poll workers arrived in the morning. But I can't find any stories about it online. Does anyone have any more information on this?

Re:List of irregularities

[RandomCoil]

This has been on CNN (TV) for a while now. Supposedly "Republican observers" noted that machines at one location had registered 1300 votes before the polls had opened. "Poll officials" and some "impartial observers" checked the machines. The 1300 votes were actually the votes cast using that machine over its lifetime, not number of votes recorded today.

The mayor of Philadelphia seemed to think this was Republican shenanigans. I think it's more likely that the observers had one two many double espressos this morning.

Titile is insightful

[goombah99]

Far from misleading the title is accurate. In most states its illegal to open an optical scan ballot box and recount without a court order. The votes are counted using a programable computing device. the good thing is that it's a rather dumb device, closer to your washing machine in general programmability. but it's still electroinc voting.

the good news is that there is paper trail. It can be secured, and it can be recounted.

It also shows the importance of spot checking paper trails. What if this error had not been so blaringly obvious? Who would ever know. Since its not routine practice (its illegal) to recount paper ballots there would not be any way to know.

hence we need paper trails and we need to spot check them.

Re:Not as serious as you're making it sound...

[T-Ranger]

Well, hell. Might as well not have elections at all, just phone up 15 or 20 people and see who they want.

Not so fast

[goombah99]

You are right that simply discarding votes is a less serious problem than systematic errors that bias a count one direction.

but that's were the logic ends.

first let's consider the statistical fluctuations that might be present in 13,000 votes chosen at random from a larger set. If the votes were 50:50 for either candidate then in the variance of 13,000 cast ballots the outcome would be about fluctuate by 50 votes, or a difference bewteen the two candidates of 100 votes. That's the average deviation from the true average the actual deviation would be much higher. If more than one candidate is running, lets say nader is getting 10% of the votes, then the statistical fluctuation in naders total would be about 32 votes with those missing votes not equaly distributed among the other candidates.

Second, this is one precint in one county in florida. it's literally an island. One shoul dave ZERO expectation that its average demographics and voting pattern represents the state average.

If you want to do something about this...read this

[goombah99]

Don't just say "Oh my gosh" and rant here.

Moreover it does no good to have voter verified paper trails in your own precint if florida or california lacks them. That paper trail only secures your one vote. You want everyone elses secure too as errors elsewhere swamp your measly vote.

So rant to the persons who could actually do something about this: the head of NASED the organization that sets voting machine standards is Denise Lamb and the head of the National Association of Secretaries of state is Rebecca Vigil-giron. Tell them you are a professional programmer and give them your candid opinion about the need for voter verified paper trails. Currently they are outspoken in nation wide advocacy agains adding paper trails to touch screen voting.

Re:Lesser of two evils solution

[isotope23]

Well, if case you haven't been following the news, the Reps and Dems are proposing checkpoints INSIDE the country.

From the article :

"McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary Tom Ridge would appear to be authorized to issue new federal IDs--with biometric identifiers--that Americans could be required to show at checkpoints. "

So I'd say stop the terrorists AT the border instead of making me show papers inside the country.

Diebold Parania

[Ender77]

I just saw on cnn news about a woman who voted for Kerry but when she saw the screen showed her summary report it was for Bush. She called a lawyer and reviewed her selections with the election officials and it did show she selected kerry for her answers. They say it was "computer error" *Cough**bullshit**cough*

Re:I'm concerned about lost votes.

[Unknown Lamer]

Are you in Maryland? If you are, she was right. You are not allowed to vote on a paper ballot unless it is a special vote (absentee, etc.). A few people tried to use provisional ballots earlier in the year and their votes were ruled invalid (they even appealed to the State Supreme Court and the ruling was upheld). At least in Maryland, you have no choice but to use the Diebold machines.

That said, I doubt that there could be much vote changing by Republicans in Maryland simply because Maryland always goes Democrat by a fairly large margin. If it went Republican it would raise huge red flags and even if the Republican Party were trying to be evil they couldn't in Maryland (note the use of the subjunctive before calling me an evil Republican hater).