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NHS Awards Contract to Microsoft

ChocLinux writes "Microsoft has won a £500m nine year contract to supply software to the NHS, a week after the OGC (the government procurement body) released a report describing Linux as a viable desktop alternative for the majority of government users."

25 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. Candy by fembots · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think "Microsoft has also agreed to carry out £40m of research and development to provide guidelines and toolkits that will allow ISVs to deliver an NHS-specific user interface" is the candy here.

    MS probably knows it can still compete in customised applications with its almost unlimited resources.

    --
    Play iCLOD Virtual City Explorer [iclod.com] and win Half-Life 2

    1. Re:Candy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      For any system as large as this is, it seems that they would be running a thin-client (whether java or .net). As such, the UI is going to be browser based and the design of such interface has nothing to do with Open Source development.

      That's a very bad assumption. I've been somewhat involved with this, hence posting anon. No I don't work for Microsoft, and of course I can't prove I know what I'm talking about.

      There's a mixture of stuff here, but thin clients are out. There's plugins to the OS (think "my patients"), plugins to Office including research panes, standard templates for letters and so on, pocket PC based stuff communicating over SOAP to databases, tablet based stuff for doctors so they can write notes directly into an electronic record and so on.

      There is NO thin client. Web based interfaces do not give anywhere near the functionality that is needed here.

    2. Re:Candy by Sputum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've always liked the idea of the Apple Interface Guidelines.

      I haven't actually read any of them, but I like the idea. :)

      There are some pretty clear points you can make about user interfaces that I never did a specific course on, and therefore never learned.

      For instance, people nowadays know to look for "OK" and "Cancel", so you don't go changing that to "Proceed" and "Retreat". Tab order is really important. Borders and colours to break up the screen are really useful. This is the kind of thing all UI programmers should know (and really any public API should follow a similar set of guidelines).

      I think open source developers working on funky projects that all the geeks love are probably more likely to break the rules, too, because a lot of geeks have a similar way of thinking and they can probably get away with it and still end up with popular software.

      --
      "What we imagine is order is merely the prevailing form of chaos"
    3. Re:Candy by killjoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you can answer something something for me.

      Any time I hear anybody complain about a UI it's always the same complaint "this does not work the same as the program I am familiar with". It seems to have nothing to with whether the system is easier to use, arrainged more logically, layed out better on the screen, has better graphics or anything.

      To me UI guys are simply people who police the windows WIMP paradigm. If MS changes their UI then voila now you guys enforce the new MS look.

      If you ask me there will never be improvement in the UI field. We aer stuck with this crappy overlapping windows paradigm forever.

      What a waste.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    4. Re:Candy by Sputum · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's a bitchin' idea, and it'll work because it's intuitive, and "Format" being the default button will only hammer home the point.

      You know how you see an ellipsis (...) after some menu options?

      That's meant to mean the menu item will open a dialog. It's been an Apple Interface Guideline for years I think, and it seems to be fairly consistent now across platforms. I wonder how many people notice it?

      --
      "What we imagine is order is merely the prevailing form of chaos"
    5. Re:Candy by ajs318 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the things I first started noticing with the strange KDE/Gnome hybrid I ran on my first "proper" Linux box {this was in the KDE2 days, i.e. before KDE was actually any use by itself}, was the way that the button to get rid of a requester, especially one bringing bad news, was usually labelled "dismiss".

      I actually think it's quite sensible. After all, once I've read the message and maybe written it down on a convenient piece of scrap paper, there's not much else I can do apart from get rid of the requester. If I was wearing a tinfoil hat and looking out for black helicopters, though, I'd say labelling the button as "OK" was a way of getting users tacitly to approve of error messages such as "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" and accept them as a fact of life.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    6. Re:Candy by Singletoned · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, I'm always irritated by the fact that you can't copy the text from an error message or dialog window.

      Error messages are rarely meaningful, but often if you search for the error message on the web you find some useful info or advice.

      Instead you have to copy it down on a piece of paper (and pen and paper should never be necessary for using a computer).

    7. Re:Candy by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I've noticed Firefox implements a prime example of why OK and Cancel are bad ideas.

      "A script on this page is causing mozilla to run slowly. If it continues to run, your computer may become unresponsive. Do you want to abort the script? [Cancel] [OK]"

      If you read these as actions, then CANCEL will cancel the script, and OK will say no, the situation is OK. If you read these as direct, literal responses, to the question, then CANCEL means cancel the script, and OK means... erm, OK, abort the script.

      If you're a software developer for the Mozilla team, however, you read it as "OK means yes, CANCEL means no, that is the natural order of things."

      Better wording would have changed the question to "Do you want to continue running the script?", and better still would have been to change the buttons to "Continue" and "Abort script" (as per your suggestion that "Format" should be the button on a disk formatting dialog)

      I should submit a bug about this.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    8. Re:Candy by bheer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Get it usable enough that people aren't going to have problems with it

      You mean: get it usable enough so that *in the programmer's* opinion others are not going to have trouble with it.

      That's the attitude that gave us X.

  2. Linux as a viable OS? by kevlar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not to be considered a troll here, but there are virtually NO practice management solutions for Linux. I say "virtually" only because the ones that do exist are low-budget/low-feature solutions with limited (at best) deployment. You can't expect doctors to run Star Office and manage their patients and records using multiple applications that are hacked together to form one solution. The support margin would be huge in such a case.

    Linux is great for certain things but practice management would be a disaster without custom software.

    1. Re:Linux as a viable OS? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting
      multiple applications that are hacked together to form one solution.
      You say that as if it's a bad thing! I don't understand why; from the beginning UNIX was designed to use multiple programs together to complete a task. That's what pipes and shell scripts are for, after all.

      Now, I realize that at the moment graphical Linux apps might not work together all that well, so you do have a point. However, that doesn't mean that the situation won't improve in the future. D-BUS in particular looks promising.

      Of course, if you want a really good Right Now example of how "hacking together applications" isn't a dirty hack, you can take a look at Mac OS X and Applescript.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Linux as a viable OS? by mcrbids · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there are virtually NO practice management solutions for Linux.

      There is an application called "DentalPro" that my father, a dentist, used for years on his 80286 PC running Dos 5.0. It was based on Foxpro. It does EVERYTHING - dunning messages, insurance claims, dispute claims, the works. It came on a 1.2 MB 5.25" floppy set. The only limitation is that it's a single-user system, for smaller practices.

      It works like a charm under Freedos on a Linux system, in a termminal window over SSH! The only thing that's weird is printing - it prints on the local machine, not the remote xterm system...

      I don't know what you seek, but the answer may be less obvious than "Version X for Linux!"...

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  3. Here's how MS does it... by vik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few years ago, pirating MS software in the government sector was relatively commonplace. Along comes Microsoft and says: "Either you commit to our systems, or we force and audit and retrospectively sue your arse off for breach of copyright."

    Lo and behold, government departments find themselves locked into expensive Microsoft "deals" thereafter, even though FOSS would be more beneficial to them.

    Paranoid delusions? Well, it's not a decision based on the quality of the code, or the support, and it's not the TCO.

    Vik :v)

  4. There's also plenty more too it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Linux, at least when we are talking about it being provided as a solution by a company, isn't free. Regardless of who develops the system, and regardless fo what OS it's based on, they are going to want money to do it. So one cannot assume that Linux is cheaper in this case. Not saying it isn't just saying you cannot assume that it is, you'd need to look at the quotes.

    Also peopel are missing what the OGC said. They didn't say Linux was a better OS, just that it was a viable alternative. There's a real difference between the two. Saying it is a viable alternative means that they found it can do everything that it needed and thus can be considered. That's real different from saying it is the superior alternative and should be used.

    I think people need to realise that when you talk big custom contracts that involve support, OSS isn't always cheaper or better. It can be, but it's not automatically. Companies are going to want something to develop and support your environment, and they are going to want it regardless of if they use a free OS as the basis.

    This goes double when the solution provider is also the developer of the commercial OS. If IBM offers a solution based on zOS, it doesn't cost them any more in licensing than a solution on Linux, since they own zOS and Linux is free. Likewise it doesn't cost Microsoft any licensing fees to use Windows.

    Another legit worry is what will happen to Linux. Windows has a very big, very stable company backing it up. There's not really a question that it will continue to be developed and supported in the forseeable future. Linux is developed by a group of peopel working on it because they want to. What happens if they decide to stop, and no one steps up to take their place? Yes I realise that's extremely unlikely, but it's a legit concern for companies.

    1. Re:There's also plenty more too it by sjames · · Score: 3, Interesting

      new kernel gets posted to /., it seems to me that ms's backwards compatibility record is alot better than linux's

      As someone who remembers downloading SLS Linux one floppy at a time from a BBS over a mighty 2400 baud modem, I recall that once I got the base installed, I used Minicom, gzip, tar, and bash in my efforts.

      To my knowledge, there is no SLS Linux anymore, BBSes are either gone, or moved to the Internet, 2400 baud modems are considered intolerably slow (and are only supported as a fallback protocol that is almost never used). I still use all of those apps. I used fvwm as my window manager once I had X up. Fvwm is still available today should I choose to use it. I can use it with gtk even though gtk wasn't even thought of when fvwm was the default window manager. I recently switched from XFree86 to Xorg. Nothing else had to be changed.

      When the Internet started to be available to non-university students, I got a shell account. I used Slirp to make it act like a slip account. It's still available.

      I still have a few disks with DOS/Windows software from the same era, but it's useless because it won't run on a recent Windows OS.

      Perhaps you don't hear much about it when a new Windows breaks old apps because it's not news. It's just par for the course. Or it may be that you don't hear about it because there's nothing to discuss. Nobody has the source, so nobody needs to know what to change to fix it. Nobody is deciding if it's worth the effort to update it because nobody has a way TO update it. It's just gone.

  5. Re:Great deal for the department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You didn't take into consideration the following sentence for context.

    I fail to see how choosing Linux doesn't result into 'lock in'. At least to any extent greater than with Microsoft Windows.

    So with Windows you're saying that I am basically free to choose clients, even with Windows servers running on the backend. That the migration path from Windows to Linux is not as hard as many make it out to be. That the operating system, what with standardized environments like browsers and Java, is essentially a commodity and wholly interchangeable.

    I think this is the original point. That switching to Linux means that you have switched to Linux and all the lock-in related to that platform. It is difficult to port Linux systems to Solaris and vice versa. The systems are different. Even among different Linux distros porting systems is not a matter of copying and pasting as Linux distros differ internally among themselves. Selecting a specific distribution results in lock-in to that distro, same as with any other operating system whether it be Windows, Linux, MacOS, or whathaveyou.

    The concept of vendor lock-in is useful in the short term, but as you've correctly pointed out, in the long term (and with appropriate resources) vendor lock-in is an illusion.

  6. Re:Costs by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Interesting

    People are used to Windows because it's popular. Why do they want Windows? Because they are used to it.

    You're forgetting one more point - all the software they use runs on Windows. Sure, most of it may well have an equivalent alternative for Linux, but in my case that's certainly not all.

    Sure, that's not true of the average office worker, who really only needs email, web access, a word processor and maybe a spreadsheet, but that's the thing about averages; they don't apply to everyone...

  7. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So what? It's not like Red Hat will answer the phone, or return your phone calls, even when all you want to do is throw money at them.

    Exercise for the reader: figure out who your Red Hat rep is and ask them for a price quote on one of their products. Get this done within two weeks. Ready... go.

  8. The NHS has a big IT ($10b+) upgrade project by mediabunny · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is using Biztalk and C# as its interface and business logic layers. And truth be told, the more I look at Biztalk 2004 the more impressed I'm getting.

    Now while you could replace Windows with a Linux desktop and Windows servers with Linux servers I'm not fairly sure Biztalk runs on Windows only. And if your major software base is Windows why on earth would you use something else, elsewhere.

  9. Re:Costs by ykardia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Linux on the desktop will happen, but it will start with call centres, budget airlines, etc, i. e. in situations where the set of software that people are using is small and standardised and there is a lot of pressure to reduce costs, where people need small amounts of training on the software, and where staff turnover is high (you are loosing the knowledge that people have of existing software anyway when they leave).

    Once it starts getting used extensively in these kind of environments, it might gain sufficient critical mass to overcome the "we use Windows because it is popular" trap.

  10. Tell That To The Underpaid Doctors & Nurses... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Well, the good thing about this is that there's now absolutely NO way I'm going to vote for this government in next year's UK elections.

    Whatever anyone else says about the costs of switching to Open Source, the fact is that long term, a Microsoft licensing deal costs a whole lot more than an OSS solution and that is good money that the NHS should be spending on giving better salaries to the nurses, GPs and other health workers that are leaving the NHS in their droves for the private health sector.

    Add to that the fact the patient care is still suffering and that people are dying as a result of superbugs due to poor cleaning routines in our hospitals, I don't know how that crook Gates can sleep peacefully at night.

    I am absoultely disgusted with my government.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  11. Thank fsck for that by jazman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So our doctors and nurses are now going to spend minimal time on an OS that just does stuff and maximal time on actually fixing people, rather than letting people waste away while they spend hours trying to figure out why the hell copy and paste doesn't work.

  12. Re:BSOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    That's not entirely true. Windows is quite common on medical equipment controlled by PCs. The MRI scanners at the hospital where I work are being switched to win2k. We already have a 3 Tesla scanner running it. If wrongly configured it's a lot like a microwave and the RF coils are quite powerful. The software, not hardware, prevents this.

    Despite the safety measures, there are a few documented cases:
    URL:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=magne tic+resonance+ burns

    Wouldn't want a trojan infecting the scanner. There was actually a major hospital-wide infection last year. Imagine a sadistic script-kiddie frying a patient...

  13. Re:Great deal for the department by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, they got a very poor deal...
    The price of hardware has been falling for years, there is competition in the hardware market, hardware is getting better and cheaper at an astonishing rate..
    The price of software has just been going up, because there is little or no competition, and there are underhanded ways to eliminate competition than making a better product..
    It still costs real money to produce a piece of hardware, it costs absoloutely nothing to produce a "windows license", hardware is a physical item which has raw materials and production costs associated with each sale, software is write once sell infinite times.. According to economies of scale, software should cost pennies by now..
    You should only have to pay for hardware and manpower (support) since these have real costs associated with them.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  14. Report? What Report? by dj1471 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's interesting to note that the report mentioned in the article has, as you can see by following the link, been removed and replaced with a message basically rubbishing the contents of the report. But there is an archived version available.