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Air Force Orders Up A Custom Windows Monoculture

Soulfader writes "It seems that the Air Force has not learned from the Navy's folly in single-source mammoth contracts and their attendant problems, and is now working on something similar with Dell and Microsoft. Particularly interesting is the article's assertion that the Air Force is 'fed up' with Microsoft OS problems--but not enough to switch to something else. Instead, they're going to be getting a custom 'solution' of Windows products specially configured for their use. Is this the ever-hoped-for 'good' version of Windows, or more along the line of the sucks-in-new-and-interesting-ways version of Highlander II?"

21 of 541 comments (clear)

  1. Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by jarich · · Score: 5, Informative
    I've found at work and at home that Windows (since late NT4) can be quite stable ~if~ you don't install tons of junk software.

    I've had to put my 6 year old on her own machine because her kiddy games makes Windows unstable, but my wife and myself both run tons of "mainstream" software, ranging from Doom to UT to banking software to Eclipse to video editing software.

    My machine doesn't lock up and it doesn't crash and neither does hers.

    If the Navy gets a cut of Windows with all the games cut out and they remove the ability for the field user to install the junk apps, they might have something very useful (in a work environment... not for home users)

    1. Re:Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by peragrin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes and my roommates laptop with XP pro BSOD(or reboots) whenever I click the mouse on a webpage. (he can use the machine fine it's just me)

      Also even though he uses netscape his machine gets at least 2-3 new spy/ad ware programs daily.

      Compare that to my linux box or OS X box

      Neither have any.

      Yes he uses OS X daily FOR work, he chooses windows for gaming. i choose OS X as it actually goes to sleep if I close the lid, and restarts in seconds when i open it. Much better than any other machine booting up(windows or Linux)

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Three steps which cover all the basic stuff :
      1. Use a NAT capable device when connecting to the Net : for ex. a router/firewall/ethernet DSL modem and not the cheap usb ones
      2. Don't use IE or Outlook Express
      3. Don't install/download anything you don't need or from a source you don't trust

    3. Re:Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by Foolhardy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Like Software Restriction Policies, which is already a part of XP and later?

      Create a whitelist of hashes and paths for executables (exe, dll, vbs, cmd, bat, reg, etc.) you want to approve running; if it isn't on the list, it cannot be run.

    4. Re:Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by Foolhardy · · Score: 4, Informative
      Non-root users and software can't screw up your system (short of using a root exploit, and that generally requires malicious intent) so as soon as your child is done, (s)he logs out, you log in, and all your stuff is as you left it.
      On Windows (NT based) non-admin users and software can't screw up your system (short of kernel exploit), so create seperate (non-admin) accounts for your users. Each will have a seperate profile insulated from all the others. If you have some crappy software that requires admin just to run, make a SU -C file (it's like what setuid does) for it.

      Almost no malware can install without admin priviliges (even then only for that one user). Normal users can't infect the system with a virus. Still, you may want to install Firefox anyways, for its other benefits.
    5. Re:Actually, Windows can be quite stable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, I do the same thing and run many of the same programs, games, eclipse and video editing with OS X, except my 6 year old uses it (with her own account) as does my 12 year old (with her account). They install lots of games, and not a single one has had any effect on my use of the machine.

      I also have a second PC for them to use, but they are slowly refusing and want to do everything on the mac. Mainly because it always works, where as sometimes the PC is down for a day till I can fix the video drivers from some game that stomped them.

      Now I'm thinking of getting a second mac, to free up my first mac, but I've yet to have a single instance of a kiddy game making OS X unstable.

      In large part I agree with the NYTimes review, when you try OS X it will make windows look primitive.

  2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    My win 2k is more stable than my redhat 9 and my buddies mandrake 10.1. So I'd be careful about throwing around accusations about "stability." Oh and it's easier to do more too. Just is.

  3. Different Link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
  4. The difference between the Air Force and NMCI by nemaispuke · · Score: 2, Informative
    I was working at NMCI when EDS was trying to sell the concept to both the Army and the Air Force. The Air Force chose not to have a Civilian Contractor "own" the network. I am willing to bet that the Air Force retains full control of the various networks.

    Also Linux is not a good fit for applications such as Global Command and Control System (GCCS) which is a Unix/Windows product (Solaris servers, Windows clients and servers). This is of course if the AF chose to port the applications to another OS, which would take years (look up Common Operating Environment) to meet all of the usability requirements, nevermind the security ones. All I can say is putting your eggs in one basket is not a good idea.

    1. Re:The difference between the Air Force and NMCI by codepunk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Being that I worked on JOTS, JOTSII and GCCS why on earth is it not a good linux fit. Both of those systems where based initially on HPUX and a natural move would be to linux. Also GCCS was never and I mean never hooked to the internet and I doubt it is today for very obvious reasons. As a matter of fact I was working with JOTS way back when it was programmed in basic.

      --


      Got Code?
    2. Re:The difference between the Air Force and NMCI by catalina · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah - but there is a Linux version (RH AS 2.1) of the COE......

      And developing for COE is actually very easy - it's just misinterpreted/misunderstood by some developers, as a means to jack up contract costs.....

  5. Re:WTF? by The+Snowman · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's worth noting that massive amount of Air Force computing needs are not "critical shit". There are an awful lot of desktop machines running basic office apps to fill in reports in triplicate, make requisititons, do accounting, and all the other "needs" of any bureaucratic system.

    Of course there are a lot of desktop apps too, but the Air Force does run a lot of critical shit. However, most of those servers run some form of Unix or a mainframe OS. Some run Windows, but those are not the big ones that need lots of speed and runs millions of database transactions per day.

    The Air Force is Microsoft's single largest customer, according to the speech Ballmer gave to us about a year ago. It is no wonder that the only way not to have a Windows desktop is to be a developer for a Unix system. As a whole, the Air Force is dead set on having a single sign-on web-based portal system (ASP), using Active Directory to run all the communications.

    Not only are they moving toward locking the whole Air Force into proprietary Microsoft technology, they are consolidating services into a single point of failure. If a terrorist could take out a single data center, they could essentially take out the whole Air Force. Yeah, the planes might be able to fly, but where would the generals get their information? How would mechanics keep track of what needs to be done to the thousands of fighter jets, making sure that routine maintenance is done on time? Military hardware takes a beating, and computers track all that stuff. One dirty bomb. One pickup truck full of fertilizer. It could disable "the greatest air force on earth."

    No, I will not say which datacenter I am talking about, I do not want Ashcroft's goons to drag me away to Guantanamo ;-)

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
  6. Re:They never learn...! by Zen+Punk · · Score: 1, Informative

    By what definition is the U.S. a very old civilization? We may be one of the oldest democracies in existence as of today(I'm probably wrong about that, dunno), but we are relatively a very young nation, which a lot of Americans seem to forget. The only nation I can think of off the top of my head that is younger than the United States is Israel.

    I do agree with you, though, that corruption, shortsightedness and the gradual blending of business and government are helping the U.S. fall behind other nations in terms of economy, technology, etc., even as so many of my fellow countrymen regurgitate that "greatest nation on Earth" sound bite crap.

    --
    Sleep is futile.
  7. Re:NMCI Mystery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    NMCI = Navy Marine Corps Intranet

  8. not surprising by willCode4Beer.com · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I worked with State Farm Insurance, they had a highly customized version of Windows NT and MS Office. They also had a major part of the source code to both. THis was about 5 years ago. My understanding is that this is pretty common for large customers of MS products. And to answer, the next question. No, they were NOT more stable. In fact, they appeared to crash more frequently.

    --
    ----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
  9. Re:WTF? by UniverseIsADoughnut · · Score: 2, Informative

    You like many miss the fact that OOo is not MS word, and does not have an official bless by MS file format tool to handle .doc files. It doesn't matter how close it might ever be (still way off in my book). If it's not an official deal, it's a no go for the military and most any company. Companies and the Gov. have mountains of files in MS office file formats. They are never going to chance some geek hack with them. They need them to work, and they need to insure what OOo creates works with MS windows since thats what others use.

    This is a simple cut and dry reason why people will never go to an open source alternitive, and I highly doubt MS will ever contribute such a key peice to Open Office.

    Furthermore, the airforce probably did look at other things, but they were quickly toss for simple reasons like having to retrain users (think about how many people the military has), things like file compatibility, missing apps, their custom apps would need to be re-written and so forth.

    Its one thing to look at linux if say you are looking at getting your first computer systems, but once you get the ball rolling, it's very hard to change. That or you can simply look at what it says about linux if even when people get feed up with windows they stick with it compaired to the other options.

  10. Re:Yet another uninformed piece of blather by The+Snowman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Blah, blah, blah. You talk a good line of shit, but, alas, that's all it is: shit. You have no idea how the military's tactical computer systems work or you wouldn't have spewed that odiferous blather. Give your anti-Microsoft zealotry a break and quit making up stuff in order to sound like you know what you're talking about. I know that you don't and you know that you don't.

    You may be a troll, but I'll bite. First of all, I am not anti-Microsoft, I am anti-monoculture. If the Air Force picked Red Hat as the desktop OS of choice, I would object. Same with MacOS, FreeBSD, Solaris, whatever. Diversity is key.

    "The military" is a broad term. I have been working in Air Force IT for over four years now, developing database applications deployed world-wide for a variety of tasks from maintenance to intelligence. Notice I make no claims about the Army, Marines or Navy. Only the Air Force, where I know first hand how things work. I know how the pieces of the IT puzzle fit together, and I am upset by what I see. All of these critical database systems that handle the Air Force's data are consolidated in a few locations. Yes, a single truck bomb could severely cripple the Air Force. If you are so smart, you tell me where to detonate it.

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
  11. Re:WTF? by The+Snowman · · Score: 4, Informative

    The military plans so that there is no single point of failure.

    Yes, in some ways, but in others they do not. I don't know about the other branches, but the Air Force is pushing for consolidated IT. For example, the application I currently work on runs on a server in a building with about 500 other applications. Not all are critical to day to day or combat operations, but enough are that a single terrorist incident could cause catastrophic loss of mission capability. Sure, we would be able to fix it, but it would take long enough that terrorists or foreign governments could attack in the window of opportunity and have better chances of succeeding.

    Couple that with the fact that countries such as China are training teams of hackers to wage computer warfare, and maybe terrorists don't even need to detonate a car bomb to take our systems out.

    The military have a joke that if someone took out the Pentagon they would be doing them a failure by eliminating a lot of red tape. They won't relly completely on anything. Datacenter get destroyed and they will work around it.

    That is a different thing altogether. If the command and control was taken out, we have backup plans (e.g. NORAD) to take command. Besides, most mission critical systems are not located in Washington, D.C. There are a few data centers scattered around the nation, and any backup command center would still use the same data centers. That was my point, although I agree with what you said.

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
  12. Re:Such BS by Aadain2001 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, where I have worked had several hundred Linux desktops rolled out to several hundred engineers (and not the kind that know how to use computers, only custom applications) and it was support by just a few people with no problems. OpenLDAP, Samba, NFS, NIS, etc, etc, are all free, open, configurable, and time tested approaches to managing large numbers of files/computers/users. Have I personally done this? No, but I talked with the guys that did and they had more problems from all the Windows boxes on the network spewing viruses than they ever had with the Linux boxes (the Windows boxes were managed by the Windows guys, different group). Oh, and they managed over 3,000 Linux servers with very little effert. They could drop a new rack of 40 in place and have it running in a day (usually before lunch). The biggest problems with running Linux in large numbers is that you need to know what you are doing (and not try to integrate with an existing Windows network/server design. Windows doesn't play well with others).

    --
    Space for rent, inquire within
  13. Re:WTF? by shufler · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even before I installed Firefox (Firebird, Phoenix, whatever), I didn't have Spyware, or if I did, it was minimal.

    The key is being aware of your environment. Turn things off that you don't need, don't use, or are harmful. If you must use cookies, set them to only accept from the originating site (bye bye DoubleClick cookies). Turn off Javascript. If a website REQUIRES Javascript, don't use it. There are certainly alternatives out there. Browse only sites you know and trust (this goes back to my pornography statement).

    The next step is to use alternative software, like Firefox, Thunderbird, OO.org, and whatever else. If not to support the Open Source community, but to use programs which won't automatically start running code because you received a file that told it to.

    Use a goddamned Firewall. You can pick up a SOHO hardware firewall for $20 these days. There's no excuse to not have one.

    To conclude, I have one thing left to say, keeping in mind that the following sentence is completely true:

    I have not had a virus infection on any of my computers (and I have dozens of computers) since 1996, and I got that by using a floppy disk in a public DOS6/WFW computer without virus protection. This virus ended up on a computer I had for no more than a week. This was my lesson in using virus protection.

  14. Re:Our tax dollars hard(ly) at work. by bm17 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have had some experience with military procurement. It is scary and has nothing to do with logic. The people who do the purchasing are not in the military. They are career civilians. The military officers who oversee them only spend a few years in that capacity before moving on to other posts. They have no real opportunity to institute reforms even they are the ones affected by the purchases. The civilian purchasers develop (I believe) unethical reletionships certain prefered vendors. I've also seen a tendency for government emplyees to avoid taking responsibility for anything. I assume that this has something to do with the way blame is passed around. Furthermore (and possibly due to responsibility avoidance) the military generates a huge amount of rules that must be followed to the letter. This is done mindlessly. If at some point there was an incident involving a Delrin part, then Delrin might be banned from all future milspec parts. The amount of money that an item costs means nothing compared to the need to satisfy paperwork. And speaking of paperwork I doubt that and Linux distributor can hold a candle to Microsoft when it comes to filling out the endless reams of paperwork required to contract with the military. It's just insane. And you have to know all of the bizzare customs they have. So, in short, don't expect military procurement to make any sort of sense until such time as the entire system is overhauled.