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Internet Archive Loses Copyright Fight

tiltowait writes "As reported on LISNews.com, the Internet Archive has lost a copyright lawsuit which challenged the Congressional lengthening of copyright terms and conditions. The ruling has implications for abandonware and other copyright-eligible materials that have no active owner. Brewster Kahle plans to appeal the decision." The decision is available. As we noted in an earlier story, the Eldred case challenged the length of copyright expansion, this one challenged the breadth, and so far, this one is going about as well as the Eldred case did. Stanford has an overview of the case.

84 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. I don't know what to say. by which+way+is+up · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, that sucks.

    1. Re:I don't know what to say. by Dance_Dance_Karnov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      right to the point. it does suck.

    2. Re:I don't know what to say. by cwapface · · Score: 2, Funny

      oh, canada?

    3. Re:I don't know what to say. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You sir, are the reason why we should have placed a cap on Slashdot user registration at 800,000.

    4. Re:I don't know what to say. by lintux · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why, so that he posts as Anonymous Coward, as we do? :-)

    5. Re:I don't know what to say. by maxwells_deamon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because "First Post" was automatically copywrited the first time it was used, does this mean that you have obtained the rights to copy first posts and are granting it to all for free? Or perhaps you were the original first poster? :-)

  2. Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Another win for big business over the little guy! Go Disney!

  3. Relocate by stecoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Relocate the server to some small island in international waters or some country that doesn't give a Flying...ya know... about U.S. laws like North Korea.

    1. Re:Relocate by dr_dank · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Havenco has gone right down the toilet of late. They broke from their strict "live and let live as long as it isn't kiddie porn" policy post 9/11.

      Ryan Lackey did a presentation at Defcon 11 which can be viewed here.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    2. Re:Relocate by maxchaote · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thanks for the information -- I had no idea.

      I also had no idea that Las Vegas was in California.

  4. Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought abandonware was defined as software that was no longer commercially available or supported. What's that got to do with copyright?

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
    1. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by archipunk · · Score: 5, Informative
      I thought abandonware was defined as software that was no longer commercially available or supported. What's that got to do with copyright?

      Software is subject to copyright law.

      The law states that copying, distributing, etc. that material, even if it is abandoned and unsupported, is illegal. But there are many individuals who want to use, modify, develop, etc. those materials who are presently prevented from doing so by the law.

      If abandoned material was no longer encumbered by copyright, people with an interest could do new and creative things with those materials. Instead, though, the law acts to stifle and constrain new advances and developments, rather than to encourage them.

      It preserves the rights of ignorance and suppression, rather than allowing and encouraging creativity, invention, and development.

    2. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by kfg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's that got to do with copyright?

      Very simply, copyright deals with whether the material is owned, not with whether it is distributed or not.

      The car in my garage that I haven't driven in 10 years is still mine, and you can't take it just because you need a car and I'm not using it.

      I have the legal right not drive my car, and I have the legal right not to distribute my software. My availing myself of these rights does not in any way confer rights to my things upon you.

      Thus, you cannot distribute my copyright protected material over the internet, even though I am not doing so myself.

      KFG

    3. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by mopslik · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's that got to do with copyright?

      The argument goes something like this:

      Consumer: "I'd like ProgramX, please."
      Producer: "I'm sorry, we stopped making ProgramX a few years ago."
      Consumer: "Oh, well where can I purchase a copy then?"
      Producer: "I'm sorry, you cannot purchase a copy of ProgramX."
      Consumer: "What if I copy ProgramX from a friend who has it then?"
      Producer: "Copying ProgramX is illegal, because it denies us a sale."
      Consumer: "But where can I buy ProgramX?"
      Producer: "I'm sorry, you cannot purchase a copy of ProgramX."

      Or something like that.

    4. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by Pxtl · · Score: 2, Informative

      The free availability of Abandonware is based not on the fact that its free from copyright - I don't think anyone said otherwise. Its based on the fact that it seems morally right, and it is really unlikely that the copyright holder will give a flying fsck about their old crap that they're no longer making a dime over.
      The-Underdogs.org approach is this: post it unless you can buy it, or there's a legal letter on the subject - and that's gotten them pretty far. They've thrown some heavy hitters onto their site like WipeOut XL, and its a site that industry bigwigs know about, and are still chugging along fine.

    5. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or even worse, the company has gone out of business but the copyrights have passed on to stockholders or other creditors in a chain with more begats than the Bible, and who knows where the rights are now. It's probably safe to do things with it, but there'll always be an IP submarine waiting out there for the right moment to strike. (Just look at how junk patents are acquired from mostly-dead companies by litigious b-tards.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    6. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by AndroidCat · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I should mention that this effects me personally. I used to work for a small coin-op arcade game company, and we did a game back in 1983. The company is long gone and the last Intrepid probably died years ago too.

      A few years ago, I installed MAME and a copy of the ROMs from a site and played it a bit for nostalgia's sake. (It's plain awful by non-1983 standards! :) Like a fool, I didn't keep a copy. The last time I looked (not very hard) I didn't find it because sites have gotten cautious about copyrights on old ROMs.

      So, one of the few people that might care about those ROMs can't get a copy even though my initials are fourth down on the high-score list. All because of submarine IP that never really goes away unless the owner is absolutely completely gone or someone explicitly puts it into the public domain. (As I recall, in 1983 the laws were in flux as to copyright applying to ROMs at all.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    7. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by archipunk · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Do they wnat to use, modify, develop, etc., BADLY ENOUGH to pay the price?

      That seems to be the way the playing field is being set, but that is not the way it should be. Development, invention, and creativity are all socially beneficial.

      If our system of laws is for the social good, then, as someone else pointed out, abandoned intellectual property should be treated the same as abandoned physical property, and brought back into usefulness (i.e. public domain). If you die without heirs, your house will be sold and the proceeds go to the community, and someone else can enjoy the use of the property, rather than allowing it to remain abandoned and decaying.

      Once an idea exists, it should not be quashed and suppressed just because someone can't make a buck off of it (or enough bucks to be willing to bother).

      It is simply absurd to require everything to meet some standard of monetization in order to be deemed worthy.

    8. Re:Abandonware is still copyright-eligible by Yartrebo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, here's my answer to that.

      The law is correct and moral if you believe in fascism, since the copyright as it is benefits the corporations and their state and that is the goal of fascism. It is neutral if you believe in despotism or monarchy, as the king is within his/her rights to sell the public domain though there is no mandate to do so.

      Under most other moral philosophies, copyright will generally appear outlandish, especially the extreme version will live under today.

      Communists: A command economy completely sweeps the rug from the only potential economic argument in favor of copyrights (that it encourages production). Since people should receive according to need and not according to commercial success of their works, copyrights would be unfair under communism.

      Free-Market Capitalists: Copyrights are government granted monopolies and restrictions on trade. Both of those only lead to higher prices, lower production (of copies) and inefficiency.

      Utilitarians: Copyrights reduce the benefit derived from a work to society as a whole, as fewer people will use it and there is more overhead such as legal teams, marketing departments, DRM, and other non-socially beneficial spending. The theory that copyrights foster production has been shown to be often overstated and often even reversed, as is the case with copyrights on databases.

      Most Religions: Most religions promote sharing and are against greed. Essentially no religion promotes copyright and copyright is a foreign concept to most religions (exception: Scientology - but they're a cult, not a real religion). That copyrights and DRM prevent their followers from editing works to fit their moral values (by removing nudity, consumerism, sex, violence, etc) is another point against copyrights. Copyrights also reinforce the very coporations who push said smut and consumerism.

      Libertarians: Copyrights are an infringement on the right to do business between consenting parties and are a government sanctioned monopoly.

      Liberals: Copyrights are extremely unfair by taking from many poor people and giving mostly to rich businessmen and lawyers as well as their enormous structural costs. They also require draconian measures to be enforced and effective enforcement would add to prisons which already have way too many pot smokers. Limiting the exlusive rights of copyright to for-profit uses and making copyrights non-transferable might turn liberals in favor of them, since it would become a business to business issue and copyrights could be used to prevent companies from profiting off of an artist's work without permission.

      Intellectuals: Copyrights place direct restrictions, controls, and costs on the spread of knowledge and the arts. Most great discoveries have not been made in the pursuit of money. Many valuble works have been lost and will be lost because it is illegal to make copies of deteriorating or rare works. Copyright has no provisions against plagarism.

      Artists: Copyrights severly limit the material they can copy from. It is extremely rare for an artist to make a living off of copyright royalties. Copyrights can be used by record labels, movie companies, software houses, and other companies to prevent the artist from using, giving, or expanding on their creations without the corporation's consent.

      Environmentalists: Copyrights go against dematerialization by artificially making information expensive relative to physical goods and require far more shipping and packaging that the alternatives. Any advertising-based system is bad because it promoted consumption and waste, and copyright facilites advertising. Copyrights strengthen corporations, which are the enemy of the environment.

      Hedonists: Copyrights prevent us from getting what we want, only slightly countered because copyright will make a small number of successful hedonists very rich.

      Have I missed any major philosophies?

  5. Abandonware, ahh.. by Staplerh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a long-time consumer of abandonware, this is horrible news. If the product is not available for sale, I would aruge that common sense dictates that the public sharing of the product hurts nobody as the copyright is not being actively protected! The persecution of Abandonware when the programme is still available for purchase as part of a 'legacy' series is understandable, but otherwise it is rediculous.

    Besides, the ability to play the games that I once oggled over in PC Gamber but couldn't afford is really quite something.

    --
    "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
    - Bob Dylan
    1. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by which+way+is+up · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is an awful argument. Just because something is no longer for sale to the public DOES NOT mean the copyright should no longer apply, thus taking control away from the owner/creator.

      The copyright is not dependent upon the owners ability/desire to distribute it. So the copyright should not be any less enforceable should the product no longer be available for sale.

    2. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by rcw-work · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Just because something is no longer for sale to the public DOES NOT mean the copyright should no longer apply, thus taking control away from the owner/creator.

      Copyright isn't just about giving control to the copyright holder. It's a deal struck between authors and society. Authors agree to produce work for society, society agrees to give the author a fair chance at compensation for their work.

      One could easily make the argument that when an author refuses to distribute their product, they aren't living up to their side of the deal.

      Of course that's not how the law reads right now, but a simple majority can change that.

    3. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by RealAlaskan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Just because something is no longer for sale to the public DOES NOT mean the copyright should no longer apply, thus taking control away from the owner/creator.

      Sorry, wrong. That may be the way the law is currently interpreted, but that is clearly not the way the law should be interpreted.

      What follows is U.S. specific: that's appropriate, since the decision is also.

      Our constitution gives Congress the right to extend monopolies to artists, authors and inventors, for limited periods, to serve the public interest. The ultimate aim is to enhance the public domain. I'd say that allowing a copyright owner the ability to exercise dog-in-the-manger style control, by intent or by apathy, is clearly unconstitutional. If the courts disagree, they're following in the grand old tradition of Dred Scott. The courts have been wrong before.

      The copyright is not dependent upon the owners ability/desire to distribute it.

      That is probably true, but if so, it is an accident of law, not The Way God Commanded It.

      Copyright is not a natural right like your right to not be murdered. Copyright is a deal we make with authors, because we think we're better off for it. If we aren't better off, if the authors aren't holding up their end of the deal, we have right to change things around. Copyright should be called copyprivilage.

    4. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by hibiki_r · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is an awful argument. Just because something is no longer for sale to the public DOES NOT mean the copyright should no longer apply, thus taking control away from the owner/creator.

      The key there is the should. I'm pretty sure that the law as it is worded makes abandonware as illegal as copying current software. However, it is argueable that the original intent of copyright law is to encourage the creation of new intellectual works for the enrichment os society. Under that interpretation, it becomes pretty hard to prove that protecting abandondonware under the current copyright law barely helps the creator in any way, while at the same time doesn't help society in any way.

      Most of the time, whenever the owner of the rights is found, websites are given permission to distribute the program for free. The problem is that in most cases, figuring out who is the copyright owner is almost impossible, leaving the status of the program in limbo.

    5. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by phats+garage · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The deal is still made, the Gov't made the deal with the people to protect copyright.

      Now this means that a company can choose to withhold a product from distribution and there are valid reasons to do this. For instance, Microsoft wants people to buy their latest version of software so thats why they may elect not to distribute previous versions, especially as the previous versions may not be cost effective to support.

    6. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, but the entire pupose of copyright is to promote the arts and science by encouraging the discemenation of works. Originally you could not have a copyright on something if you did not publically publish it. Copyright like patents are intended to reward for letting the cat out of the bag so to say.

    7. Re:Abandonware, ahh.. by OWJones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One could easily make the argument that when an author refuses to distribute their product, they aren't living up to their side of the deal.

      Congress and the courts have explicitly recognized a right to not publish, or publish on their own terms. Copyright is a grant of a limited monopoly, and simply because I'm not publishing a work right now doesn't mean that I'll never do it. The worst case is that you (the public) get to do what you will with it when the copyright expires; the deal is that you get to see it when the copyright expires, not when I don't quote you a price.

      Note that this is if the copyright holder can be identified. If I write a crap program and never distribute it because it was a throwaway hack, I'm perfectly within my rights to do so. That doesn't give someone the right to beg, borrow or steal a copy and distribute it, just because I'm not doing it.

      For example, I might deem that the creation is so horrible (since I didn't put hard work into it) that if I were to release it, it would harm my reputation as a programmer (or writer, filmmaker, etc). Thus I have the right to keep a lid on it as long as I want. Who knows ... in the future I may decide that it's a cute work representing inexperienced naivete that the world should see and laugh at. Just not yet.

      -jdm

  6. Google's cache next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In regard to copyrights what Google's cache is very similar. So is the Google cache next on the hit list?

    1. Re:Google's cache next? by bersl2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, and I said (in the thread about this) that they could submit a request per the DMCA to have Google remove said images from the index/cache. IIRC, this is factual (maybe not right, but factual).

      And I get modded down by some idiot. I mean, if I'm wrong about this, somebody tell me, throw me a frickin' bone here, instead of dropping a -1, Overrated on me.

  7. Creative Commons by echocharlie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has any big company ever used a Creative Commons license? Or even a non-"all rights reserved" copyright?

  8. Damn that Mickey Mouse by stretch0611 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its ironic that the company that probably benefits the most (Disney) from the copyright extension owes it existence to the lack of long copyrights 50 years ago. Lots of the older "Disney Classics" were based on books with expired copyrights. Disney never would have been able to remake Cinderella if the book they adapted it from had a copyright as long the laws allow today.

    --
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    1. Re:Damn that Mickey Mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You probably mean Peter Pan or Bambi. The Cinderella story was probably made famous by Grimm in the 1800's, but has origins as far back as the 9th century. Bambi was published in 1923, so when disney made it, I think it was public domain. Peter Pan was published in 1902. If the current copyright laws were in place when disney was making Peter Pan and Bambi into movies (1953 and 1942 respectively) they could NOT have made them without paying royalties.

    2. Re:Damn that Mickey Mouse by dvdeug · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bambi was published in 1923, so when disney made it, I think it was public domain.

      No. Bambi was under copyright when Disney made the movie based off it, and still is. There was a court case between Disney and the copyright holders for Bambi a few years back where Disney claimed that the copyholders lost the copyright. While the URAA would have returned copyright to Bambi even if it had been lost, the (Ninth Districts?) decision implies that some books that were printed _before_ 1923 are still in copyright in the US, something generally held not to be true.

  9. We have to face it... by danheskett · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One of the things that is happening in this country is that people - especially with issues outside of the sight of the mainstream - are taking their pet causes to the courts for problem solving.

    I think we need to face it: the copyright extensions passed by Congress were legal. We had one of the best minds of any generation - Lessig - argue the Eldred case in front of the Surpreme Court. They remained unmoved. Why? Because the Constitution is pretty clear on the issue... Congress gets to regulate these issues as they see fit.

    The courts are not the right place to fight this issue. The courts are the wrong place to fight this issue.

    Congress is where this is at. They pass the laws, they pass the penalties, they make it all happen. The courts cannot and more importantly should not be used as a legislative tool.

    Copyright has swung too far from the commons that defined much of what is good about this country. Congress needs to move it back.

    The Courts generally can offer no relief where there is none deserved. What is happening now with the extension, DMCA, etc is *exactly* what was intended by Congress.

    1. Re:We have to face it... by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think you are right.

      We need to identify a couple of congressdroids and start "lobbying" them. Having looked through OpenSecrets, it is amazing how cheap most of these guys go for. We all ought to be able to collectively scrape up enough spare change for at least 2 or 3 of them.

      If we could just get them to slip it in as a rider on some big noisy and unrelated bill. We should target something ridiculously popular, like the anti-gay marriage brigade or the anti-flag burning bozos. Tag a secret little rider for copyright reform onto one of their bills and we could turn a bad thing into a good one.

    2. Re:We have to face it... by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Lessig himself admitted in a lengthy self-flagellation that he blew it during the Supreme Court arguments. The court wanted to side with Eldred, but they were looking for a case based on economic harm whereas Lessig insisted on giving them an argument based on the limitation of Congressional powers.

      Anyway your argument is not at all persuasive. The Constitution clearly limits Congressional power of copyright and patent, and it even employes the word "limited" and gives a perfectly valid reason:

      To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries

      There ya go. Copyrights must be "limited" and they must "promote the progress of science and arts" whereas the Sonny Bono act satisfies neither.

    3. Re:We have to face it... by amper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is generally accepted by most reasonable legal scholars that one of the most glaring omissions of the Constitution is an effective limitation of the power of Congress to pass unreasonable legislation.

      Especially as the Constitution has been Amended to remove most of the barriers between the Legislative and Executive Branches (by means of popular election of Senators, the "running mate" concept, etc), Congress today functions much more like a "tyranny of the masses" than the Framers ever intended.

      This is exactly why the concept of "judicial review" has been one of the most important legal ideas ever introduced since the Constitution. Of course, a better way to institute judicial review would be to Amend the Constitution, rather than have a precedent set by what would today be termed "activist judges" by those opposed to the idea.

      But we all need to realize that judicial review *is* needed, and I don't see those calling judges "activist" complaining about those "activist judges" out when the decisions go in their favor...

      The point is, the courts *can* and *should* be used to stop legislation that should never have been passed in the first place. It would be better no to have passed the law, but when it does pass, the people need a remedy other than the Branch which passed the damned thing in the first place.

  10. Constitutional Amendment? by apenzott · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since our (United States) congress is so out of control in this realm, the only way to stop this nonsense is with a constitutional amendment declaring explicit copyright terms and terms for revocation.

    Perhaps slashdot (readers)could hatch a plot to make this happen. (Perhaps I'm dreaming.)

    Some states provide for direct democracy by ballot initiative; other states will require more work. (Sounds like a hackers challenge to me.)

    --
    The Roman Rule: The one who says it cannot be done shall not interrupt the one who is doing it.
  11. Check out Wired by elhondo · · Score: 4, Informative

    For an article on how to join a PAC that is concerned with fighting this sort of thing. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65651,00 .html?tw=wn_tophead_1

  12. But if it's abandonware.... by vudufixit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Then who's around to actually pipe up and complain about "their" material being made available online?

    1. Re:But if it's abandonware.... by rrowv · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure the new IP Czar can help.

      But seriously, this could end up being an argument for strengthening the government's power in persuing and prosecuting those responsible for infringement. Nobody else can prosecute offenders, so the government must step in. Even if the works have been long abandonded...

  13. IANAL... by nebaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    but I looked over the ruling, and it said basically on all counts that the case was "dismissed with prejudice". Some of the rebuttals were of the form

    1) Eldred vs. Ashcroft said this, so we can't overturn that, try to go to the Supreme Court.

    2) People live longer now so copyrights should last longer (for kids and such)

    3) Congress carefully considers the meaning of "promotes the progress of arts and science" every time they extend this

    4) Technology increases the amount of time a given work is "valuable", (tell that to the RIAA, or anyone using an old version of Windows) and thus extending the copyright gives authors even more of an incentive to create.

    My question though is that since all charges are "dismissed with prejudice" is there any grounds for an appeal?

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    1. Re:IANAL... by sampson7 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Contrary to the subject line, IAAL -- but not a particularly good one, so don't take any of what I say to court or anything.

      (Ha! Get it? "Take it to court"? Gotta love a little lawyer humor!)

      Actually, dismissed with prejudice is merely a term of art. It means that the court has ruled on the merits of the argument and will not (generally) entertain any further arguments on the matter.

      Usually, if a case is dismissed without prejudice, it means that there was a procedural or jurisdictional defect in the case. The case is still dismissed, but you are free fix whatever procedural or jurisdictional problem and then re-file the case. If a case is dismissed without prejudice then the court has not ruled on the merits.

      If you think about it in terms of judicial economy (a fancy term for not making judges do more work then absolutely necessary), this makes perfect sense -- the court does not want to have to listen to 10 people make the same argument. They heard the case, they deliberated, and they decided the merits of the case. They don't want to have to do all that work over again!

      The one thing I'll add to the previous commenter is that the parties can apply to the Supreme Court for a writ of cert (basically the Supreme Court's permission to appeal to them) for either a decision on the merits (a dismissal with prejudice) or sometimes, even a case dismissed without prejudice on procedural or jurisdictional grounds. The specifics get a little complicated.

      But the key to understand is you need a final decision in order to seek an appeal. Here -- first you'll have to seek en banc review from the full 9th Circuit -- then they can apply to the Supreme Court..... blah blah blah....

  14. Congress... by Thunderstruck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Congress, the cause, and solution, to our copyright woes...

    Has any effort been made to request of congress the creation of a statutory "safe harbor" with respect to the use of material eligible for copyright protection but otherwise abandoned? Would it hurt Disney if the law included protection from liability for those who make a good faith effort to get permission but receive no response?

    For that matter, if we really want to treat IP with the same rules as physical property, then should notions about adverse possession, abandonment, and eminent domain apply?

    --
    Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
  15. Intellectual property is different by JohnnyX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Intellectual property, e.g. copyright, is a legal fiction along the same lines as "corporate personhood". The mistake it appears the courts and the legislature are making is to imbue intellectual property with the same sanctity as actual physical property.

    Now I'm a Libertarian who works in an idea business, so I understand the utility of intellectual property, but it seems reasonable that the law should require an actual rights-holder to affirm their rights and/or create a process by which someone who wanted to republish abandoned intellectual property could give notice to the purported rights-holder. If there was not a negative response in say, 60 days, the person would get the rights to publish the work.

    Just a thought.

    Yours truly,
    Mr. X

    ...killer Benihana shrimp...

  16. Re:I hope they'll beat this in court somehow. by kesuki · · Score: 2, Funny

    an army of android warriors fighting for the free exchange of data by exterminating huma-- err n/m

  17. NOT REDUNDANT by which+way+is+up · · Score: 2, Funny

    As a long-time consumer of abandonware, this is horrible news. If the product is not available for sale, I would aruge that common sense dictates that the public sharing of the product hurts nobody as the copyright is not being actively protected! The persecution of Abandonware when the programme is still available for purchase as part of a 'legacy' series is understandable, but otherwise it is rediculous.

    Besides, the ability to play the games that I once oggled over in PC Gamber but couldn't afford is really quite something.

    Oh and before you mark this REDUNDANT know that Staplrh lost rights to this original post by abandoning it after posting. I've now assumed copyright to it...

  18. Re:Disney's business plan. by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, how disney makes money is:

    1) Find a classic story with expired copyrights.
    2) Whitewash it until it can't offend anyone.
    3) Use its mass media engine to make it ubiquitous, similar to how Microsoft sole Windows 98.
    4) Copyright their neutered version of the public domain work, and pay the government to keep it copyrighted in perpetuity.

    It's reminiscent of how many humans take all their nourishment from their environment, yet take every measure, from coffins to embalming, to prevent giving back to it when they die.

  19. right, now EVERYONE do your part by bluGill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well at least everyone who is legal to vote in the US. Starting a little over a year from now, your local political parties will be holding meetings to determine their direction for the next election. Find out when and where they are, then show up. For the two major parties this is public knowledge posted well in advance. (third parties hold them too, but finding out when and where is more difficult)

    Once you are there, start talking, but make it intelligent. Find out the format in advance each party is slightly different. Prepare some resolutions in advance.

    Normally the format is someone starts by reading a prepared sentence ("Be it resolved that abortion shall be illegal"), and then the floor is open for debate. Immediately someone will jump in and say no, they disagree ("Abortion is a women's choice"). After a few minutes the chair stops discussion and calls for a vote: yes, no, abstain. (Note I specifically picked an example you are likely to hear when you go! Your resolution will not be near as controversial, so it won't get near as much debate)

    At some point they then pick people to represent their local area in the state convention. Get picked! (this isn't hard, in many areas anyone who shows up gets a position if they want it, and then they pick alternates from those who couldn't make it that night but have gone to state in the past) At the state convention much the same happens, except the debates are larger.

    Remember, present your resolutions as non-controversial, good ideas. Most people will not be informed, so they will abstain. Then when it gets to state the only people who care are those from /. who took my advice, and are on your side.

    Now get your party elected.

    The above is the grassroots processes. It is how everything is done politically in the US. The power is by following the above, forget the party boss, they are nothing compared to the millions of little guys working together to get something done.

    Note that it does not matter much which party you pick. Neither major party has a monopoly on doing the right thing as far as copyrights (both have done the wrong thing countless times). Pick one you generally agree with, and fix the parts you don't. This works even better when some pick the republicans, and others the democrats. Then when congress meets in 2 years, there is strong grassroots bi-partisan support for your issue, so congress passes it so they can be reelected for doing something non-controversial.

    Of course the above is ideal. In the real world reform can take years, and many will oppose you. Keep at it. Good luck.

    1. Re:right, now EVERYONE do your part by ScooterBill · · Score: 2, Informative

      Last night the wife and I watched "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". It was fascinating to see that corporate interests controlling our legislators was something that people were concerned about 70 years ago. Nothing has changed. Those with the money and influence will attempt to control the rest. The constitution is one of our real protections against this. So it's no surprise that the courts are being used to combat a legislature that passes laws contrary to the will of the people.

  20. Obligatory copyright infringement != theft comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The car in my garage that I haven't driven in 10 years is still mine, and you can't take it just because you need a car and I'm not using it.

    That's because taking your car would be an act of theft, leaving you with no car. It is not the same as copying a program, whereby you would not lose anything tangible.

    If a company is not selling the product anymore, then how can copying a program deny them a sale? They're not making any money off of it.

  21. Most Useful Abandonware by Oori · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree that abandonware should be archived and publiclly shared. Here's a prime example: Alta-Vista Personal search engine, which was developed in 1997, and worked on win89 and win2000 flawlessly (until a win2K bug forced me to index manually) -- it was pretty quick, and did a better job than google's current desktop search. It also didn't run constantly in the background, but updated it's index at preset times.
    Finding altavista personal search is almost impossible now (and it won't run on XP), but it's still useful for other WIN OSs. FOr those interested: you can get it here

  22. What about this scenario? by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I create some software.

    My company collapses thus the software is no longer sold or supported.

    1 year later I create a new company and I want to sell my software again.

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:What about this scenario? by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That would all depend on whether or not you or your company owned the copyright.

      If your company owned the copyright, and that company ceases to exist, then now that copyright is in limbo - which is exactly what this lawsuit is trying to address.

      If you owned the copyright and not the company, then nothing has happened to the copyright and you can sell your wares as before under any new arrangement.

      Even if company goes bankrupt, its IP (copyright) can be sold off and the new buyer would own the copyright.

      So your scenario is already covered. It makes no sense to protect abandoned copyrights. It makes about as much sense as protecting abandoned cars on the highway.

    2. Re:What about this scenario? by CodeMonkey4Hire · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, how did the company collapse? If the doors simply shut, then someone still owns the IP (stockholders possibly). Even if it went bankrupt, someone probably retained rights to the IP, either a previous investor, debtor, or something.

      --

      Let's go Hurricanes!!! 2006 Stanley Cup Champions!!!
    3. Re:What about this scenario? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess that you're not in the US. (or in fact, in just about any country I can think of)

      Here, companies are perfectly able to own copyrights, both as authors under the work for hire doctrine currently codified in 17 USC 201 and 101, and through assignments from other authors as provided for in 17 USC 204.

      In fact, I don't recall that it's ever been impossible for companies to own copyrights. The work for hire doctrine dates back over a century, and assignments to another who would then become the copyright proprietor were possible.

      Licensure is also an option, as you note. But it's hardly the only one!

      And of course, corporate ownership of copyrights is a totally pedestrian idea throughout the world. I can't think of any place that doesn't allow it altogether. Perhaps you know of one?

      It would probably be a good idea for you to do some learnin' on this subject before you post about it again.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    4. Re:What about this scenario? by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 3, Informative
      Wow... that is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

      From FindLaw.com...

      The CTEA extended the term of protection by 20 years for works copyrighted after January 1, 1923. Works copyrighted by individuals since 1978 got "life plus 70" rather than the existing "life plus 50". Works made by or for corporations (referred to as "works made for hire") got 95 years. Works copyrighted before 1978 were shielded for 95 years, regardless of how they were produced.

      Any other thought that need to be straightened out?

  23. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  24. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  25. Ok, here's an idea by krysith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I don't know if this is "technical", but here's an idea:

    A copyright Goodwill, or Salvation Army.

    Let's say we call it the "Public Domain Foundation" or somesuch. When people are done with their intellectual property, and have squeezed every last dollar from "Doom 2, Electric Boogaloo", they can donate it to the PDF and get some tax writeoff. Just like people donate their old sneakers to Goodwill. Then the PDF declares the IP to be public domain.

    Just like with the used goods charities, not everyone will donate their used stuff. A lot of people throw out their old clothes. But an awful lot do donate. Given a little PR campaign about "Recycle and reuse, get a tax break", I think a fair number of old works would be donated by publishing houses and other IP holders. Maybe the practice of donating older works to the Public Domain might catch on, and become a standard practice in industries...?

    Ok, so its not as good as reducing copyright terms, but if the law is going to treat copyrights as property which effectively last forever (I'd love a car which lasts 70 years past its builder's death), we ought to play by the rules on the field. It's better than letting the copyrights go into the limbo they currently go into when their users are done with them.

  26. About That Time Again... by the+pickle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...to mention the Abandonware Petition.

    It pretty well sums up what I believe about this sort of thing, and there have been several thousand people who pretty much agree with me.

    And I'll take the opportunity once more to thank Teresa for putting it together and hosting it.

    p

  27. No, we don't. by DarkBlackFox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The United States government is divided into three branches in a system known as checks and balances. It most definitely IS the job of the courts to keep Congress in line. The courts are the only way to declare any legislation unconstitutional, and get bills/laws overturned, provided enough proof is presented. Googling for "US government checks and balances" produced a site featuring a lesson plan describing the system, and how it should work. The section labeled "The Judicial Branch" describes what the main function of the courts actually is (in a hypothetical situation, but insert any bill and it still works), outside of settling various corporate disputes and injury lawsuits.

    From the site:
    The Judicial Branch

    The Congress is considering a bill that will make criticism of the President on the Internet's World Wide Web illegal. If the bill is approved by Congress and approved by the President, the Supreme Court must be ready to hear arguments in favor and against the bill. The Supreme Court must be ready to ask the Congress questions about the bill in order to learn facts that will lead to a decision in a lawsuit brought by the Press against the bill. The Supreme Court must develop five to seven questions it can ask lawyers on both sides. The Supreme Court will also have to vote on the constitutionality of the bill. Those in favor (there must be a minority of students taking this position even if they disagree with it) and those opposed to the bill must write a "majority" and "minority" opinion in the case.

    This is a lesson plan aimed at students, so the five to seven questions thing can be ommitted, but the idea is clear- the supreme court IS HOW TO REGULATE CONGRESS. It's how the government was designed, and the most effective way to combat purchased politicians. I'd hope it's more difficult to lobby a judge (who would be appointed- no need for campaign money), than the local congressbeing (who IS elected, and has massive financial support for campaigning).

  28. Darth Vader is on-topic by frankie · · Score: 5, Insightful
    the deal is that you get to see it when the copyright expires

    That's a very interesting theory. The REALITY is that our dear Congress keeps saying "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further" every few years.

    Ever since the Bono Act, we are living in an age of perpetual copyright. I do not expect any current copyright to expire in my lifetime. It's far less likely to happen than Social Security being solvent in 2040.
  29. Here's the deal! by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Well, anyway, I found out (among many other things) that the LABEL would own the songs that *I* wrote, *I* paid to record, and *I* payed to produce, and *I* paid to market.... so tell me, why do *THEY* get all the money?

    *Perhaps* this is because *that's the deal* that *your band* *agreed to* when *you* *signed* the *contract*. It's *the price* for a *chance* at *major label* fame and *fortune*!

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:Here's the deal! by theLOUDroom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      *Perhaps* this is because *that's the deal* that *your band* *agreed to* when *you* *signed* the *contract*. It's *the price* for a *chance* at *major label* fame and *fortune*!

      Or perhaps it's the tithe you have to pay to a bunch of goons who have monopolized US music distribution?

      Somebody would be an idiot for signing a contract like that IN A FREE MARKET, but we have no such thing. Hell, an independent band even has to pay an RIAA tax on the the blank media they use to record.

      The problem isn't this guy, it's that a criminal organization has managed to buy off politicians to the point where they even make money off blank tapes they neither manufactured nor distributed. You have to pay them for NOTHING, how fucked up is that?

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
    2. Re:Here's the deal! by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seeing as the subject of artist-label relations has come up again, I'll post this link to an excellent piece from a music industry veteran again http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

      Personally, being a musician myself, I will not sign with a label as they are now. New means of distribution are growing, and that is truly what they fear. Not possible lost sales due to personal sharing, but the rise of distribution and marketing channels independent of their control. That control is why artists up until now and for some time to come will be at a disadvantage. At least until the alternate channels mature.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  30. Re: The law, and who should fix it by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Let me make the distinction between "Our constitution gives Congress the right .." (the law itself), and "to serve the public interest" (the effect the law has).

    I'd say that allowing a copyright owner the ability to exercise dog-in-the-manger style control, by intent or by apathy, is clearly unconstitutional.

    With above distinction, your view reads to me as: "because the law doesn't have the intended effect, it should be declared unconstitutional". Newsflash: this happens all the time, and laws aren't unconstitutional because of it. I read court decisions like this as saying: "Yes, maybe the law doesn't have its intended effect, but we don't deal with that. We only deal with (whether Congress has the right to put that law in place). We (the court) decide that Congress has that right".

    A pity, but I can accept that. It just means that Congress/lawmaking is the place to fix this, not the courts.

    For a suggestion, I quote from the Stanford article: "For the first 186 years of our Republic, copyright laws established an "opt-in" system, one in which copyrights were secured only to those who took steps to claim them. In 1976 and 1989, Congress inverted this regime, transforming copyright law into an "opt-out" system, one in which rights are granted automatically and indiscriminately unless disclaimed." (anyone know an important reason why this change was made?). Me thinks it would really serve the public to revert that change, back to an opt-in policy, where authors have to take active steps to secure copyrights. That would solve the orphaned-works problem in an instant.

    Too bad, the copyright-profit industry clearly has better lobbyist teams working the Congress than the public has.

  31. Re:Obligatory copyright infringement != theft comm by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here is a related topic which occurs regularly in the fansub circles of Anime.

    A well loved anime, KOR, was not licensed for distribution in America. As a result, a fan group subtitled and released the entire series for free, using the arguement that since it wasn't licensed for sale in America, they weren't hurting anyone. This was back in the good old dual vcr and tape days. Because this was a popular anime, pretty much anyone who wanted to could get a copy of the fansubs for the price of the tapes and the time to copy them.

    A few years later, a company was approached by the fans of this series, asking them to purchase the rights to distribute it in America. The company declined at first, citing the fact that since the fansubs of the anime were so prevalent, no one would have any reason to buy them. Eventually, in this case, a happy ending came about when the fans pre-ordered enough copies to make it finiacially viable to actually do the project.

    However, just because this one ended in a happy note, does'nt meant they all do. The fact of the matter is, most of the time fansubers, abandonware sites, and other gray area copyright violators who aren't stealing out of a desire to not pay but out of a lack of any other avenue to get the product, end up hurting themselves in the end.

    Typically what happens is that instead of reviving the product, they hammer the last nail into the coffin by removing ANY hope of the company seeing any finiacial viablity out of bringing the product back on their own.

    On the other hand, damn it sure would be nice if companies couldn't horde these things as long as they do now.

  32. Yeah, yeah, this is Slashdot by diamondsw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look, I want things to enter the public domain as much as the rest of you, but it looks like the copyright laws here made a decent amount of sense. Read the decision. Meanwhile, the lower courts are correctly noting that where the complaint directly conflicts with Eldred, they have to choice but to dismiss the complaint.

    In a nutshell, current copyright policy looks like it was created to deal with an unmanageable system of registration, notification, and people who DID want to maintain their rights losing them. I find it interesting that we complain the US is isolationist and then reject this attempt to conform to world policy.

    Finally, with regards to abandonware, the premise is that the original company is making no money off of it and "doesn't care" if it's distributed. If this is truly the case, then distribute it anyway, even if it is copyrighted. If they don't care, then no problem. If they do care, then take it down. The stuff that truly is abandoned will still be distributed, but the items that the copyright holders still have an interest in will not be.

    The legal nuances only come into play if someone takes you to court, and if to reach that point generally means that not only do they significantly value the work, but you've most likely refused to resolve the situation amicably. Companies, even large ones, would much rather send a simple letter than sue someone.

    --
    I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  33. Re:government is funded by business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THEY'll pay for the lawyers that will defend your work from infringement.

    Bullshit.

    They'll pay for the lawyers that will protect *their* interests, but they won't lift a finger otherwise.

    In fact, it's quite possible that the lawyers they pay will attack the *artist*.

  34. Re:This just kills me. by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Informative

    "3) Congress carefully considers the meaning of "promotes the progress of arts and science" every time they extend this"

    This is the worst one. Congress does no such thing.


    Well perhaps, perhaps not. But it's not up to the court to speculate on whether the law does "promotes the progress of arts and science". They could only overrule it on this grounds, if it was quite clear that the obvious result of this extension was detrimental to the progress of arts and science. While there is some evidence to support this position, it could be argued that longer copyright protection has encouraged some publishers to continue publishing their work for longer.

    Personally, I think the arguments a load of hokum, but unless I can disprove this and any similar argument, then it has to accepted as the wisdom of congress.

  35. Re:Disney's business plan. by G-funk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It stops you from making a new version of mickey mouse tho, even when walt disney will have been dead for a hundred years. Is there some line in the sand (or constitution) that says "everything before the mouse is fair game, but everything afterwards should be protected for corporate exploitation unto eternity?"

    --
    Send lawyers, guns, and money!
  36. The Peter Pan Coyright by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative
    Barrie assigned the rights to Peter Pan to the Great Ormond Street Hospital Children's Charity in 1929. Peter Pan will remain forever under copyright in the UK, under special legislation passed in 1988. Under the revised rules, European copyright expires in 2007, US coyright in 2023. Peter Pan Copyright

    Bambi was released in 1942. The Bambi copyright was not secured until 1926. Disney fought and won on the issue of a "timely renewal" of the coyright in 1954. Amelia Translation Project

  37. Re:Obligatory copyright infringement != theft comm by reverius · · Score: 2, Funny

    See? Microsoft isn't a monopoly. The compete with themselves!!!

  38. Re:Disney's business plan. by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What you say is true, but Congress doesn't simply pass laws saying "None of Disney's stuff will ever pass into the public domain." (Which would be bad enough...) Instead, to avoid blatantly showing who they are serving with these copyright extensions, they extend the copyright on everything published since Steamboat Willy (which is the first appearance of Mickey Mouse, if you didn't know.) The result: an impoverished "myth spring", and a gradual depletion of "free ideas" that are available.

    You see, once upon a time, the idea of "intellectual property" and "copyright", would've been laughed at. I mean, when I tell you a story, I still have the story, right? Languages and numbers only become more useful with each new person who learns them. However, all knowledge is power, and many people preferred to keep that power to themselves. A fine example is the Masons, who prospered for for many years due to secret stoneworking techniques and still have a reputation for secrecy to this day.

    As a way to encourage the sharing of ideas and works of art, the idea of copyright was conceived.

    The purpose of copyright is to encourage artists to share their works with the public by allowing them exclusive publishing rights for a limited time, after which those works would enter the public domain.

    Would Disney have been able to create Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, etc, if the inspirations for those works had not been in the public domain? Of course not, and Disney's success is one of the best arguments for the necessity of allowing works of art to pass into the public domain. Yet Mickey Mouse (and literally thousands of other works of art, published since 1928, the first appearance of Steamboat Willy) has not passed into the public domain, as would be proper. Instead, every time that mouse comes close to becoming public property, Disney lobbyists donate money to purchase another copyright extension, and more and more works that should belong to society as a whole are dragged along with Steamboat Willy.)

    The public has been denied the compensation it deserves for allowing Disney the copyright in the first place, and it seems that will continue to be the case, until a sufficient number of people wake up to what we are losing in exchange for Disney's success.

  39. Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally, I'd argue for *shorter* copyright terms, not longer.

    Reasons:
    1) Given the pace of modern change, it's a lot easier and faster to capitalise on an idea or product. In one month, you can have prototypes built for you and be marketing to the entire planet.

    2) Kids. There's really no reason for kids of inventors/authors to benefit from super-long copyrights. If my Dad makes a pile of money from an invention or work, I'll inherit that. If he wants me to take over the business, he'll train me. I shouldn't feel entitled to a life on easy street just because an ancestor of mine was smart or lucky.

    3) Cross-collaboration. Getting new inventions, methods or processes out into the wider community where they can be combined with existing ideas is of huge benefit to a modern economy. A thousand years ago, it didn't matter too much if a new castle design or plough was delayed ten years, because it would take a century or so to get to a significant fraction of the planet. Today, if you delay a year, you've lost the advantage.

    I've tinkered with assorted copyright length schemes, mainly with either brutally short expiry times, or geometrically increasing extension costs (for companies which just HAVE to have one more year of owning Mickey Mouse). The major problem is that eventually it becomes cheaper for a large corporation to buy a change in the copyright law than it does to pay for another year of copyright.

    Maybe if laws-for-cash was legalized and formalised somehow? Rent-a-law?

  40. One person's "abandonware" is not another's... by BlueTT · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One good example of this is old 1980's video game code.

    It's no longer available in its native form, and many of the companies involved no longer exist.

    Under "abandonware" thinking, those programs should be free to distribute.

    However, thanks to the recent retrogaming craze, a lot of company's successors are seeing a good revenue stream from those once "abandoned" titles. (For example, who ever thought we'd see Atari 2600 titles for sale again, but there they are, built into a joystick at Toys R Us.)

    As far as "old movies of little value," certainly there are those who think "It's A Wonderful Life" should still be Public Domain; the current copyright holders would disagree vehemently.

    1. Re:One person's "abandonware" is not another's... by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Interesting you brought that up...

      I was involved in producing one of the first classic arcade collection for PC.

      It was a NIGHTMARE!!!

      Since many of the titles we were interested were produced by defunct companies, it was impossible to track down proper copyright owners to license the game. We were able to finally track down copyright owners for the titles we really wanted, but some of the titles had to be abandoned because we could not verify who had the proper copyright.

      Even with identified copyright holders we had problems with other people challenging their ownership. Very, very confusing.

      Again, if a copyright is valuable enough, then the owner should protect it and license it accordingly. But there are numerous copyrights that are hopelessly lost or disputed (where no one can prove clear ownership) that should become public domain by default.

  41. Software never wears out by Convergence · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And then it continues with ''Well, we have a new program that does the same thing. That will be $89.99''

    One unique property that software, fiction, nonfiction, and other creative works have is that they *NEVER WEAR OUT*. Thus, old creations are direct economic competetiors to recent creations. Thus, the cheap availability of old creations in the public domain would affect and depress the market of recent creations. The copyright feudalists have done their best to keep this from happening by keeping old creations far away from the public.

    Thus, copying old artistic works/abandonware could be detrimental to current creation. For instance, if copyright law was 42 years, most black&white film archives would be out of copyright --- I'd expect a lot of reruns of those instead of recent creations on TV.

    Unfortunately, keeping old creations far from the public and rotting away is also destroying our cultural largess to our descendents. Under the current law, our cultural heritage will be lost. How many 80's arcade games are already lost forever? How many would have been lost forever by now without MAME?

    To me, the preservation of our culture for the future is more important than an argument that the professional creation of modern cultural works would suffer a minor economic decline. Personally, I think the availability of more culture in the public domain would lead to a bit less professional creativity, but VASTLY more total creativity.

    1. Re:Software never wears out by white_wolf21 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You make interesting points, but I disagree with your conclusion that ".. the cheap availability of old creations in the public domain would affect and depress the market of recent creations."

      After all, it's not as if new creations aren't competing against public domain ones now. The existence of Shakespeare in the public domain has not resulted in the predominance of Shakespearean plays, and no modern ones.

      If a TV channel was to start showing too many old black and white films/shows at the expense of newer ones, I don't think they'd remain too competitive.

      I think that there's room for both older, public domain works, and new creations. People like new things (and old things). And after all, if a new creation can't be competitive against an older one, perhaps they should try a bit harder. :)

  42. Re:government is funded by business by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 2

    The point is not being able to give your children an inheritance. You could do that just as easily as him without excessive copyright duration, the same way as him, save the money or invest in tangible assets such as a home or property.
    What excessive copyright duration does is let *YOU* spend it all before you croak and still leave your children money, whereas he cannot live as well a life as you (on the same income) and still leave his decendants as much as you can.
    Any wonder he considers you greedy for wanting special rules to let you have your cake and eat it to?

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  43. What is "little or no commercial value"? by henleg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the article at http://www.lisnews.com/article.pl?sid=04/11/30/141 0232 this is written in the end, and I see 2 sides of the argue here.


    The copyright holder wants to keep their copyrights and possibility to gain financially until their copyright on the material pass on.

    The information-wants-to-be-free-activists; All information should be accessible, no matter what.


    I believe that it's natural that the copyright holder defend their rights, and they should be able to decide when or if their material should be shared by anyone without their control.

    Though I also believe that these copyright-holders should perhaps loosen up when it comes to defending their copyright when it comes to material that is more trivial and of common interest, and where-of this material doesn't bring them financial gain. Some "good will" would be suitable.

  44. Abandoned works by Folded Corporations & LLC's by jimcooncat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps there's a way to save a subset of these abandoned works. Corporations and other business entities which are regarded as separate entities from individuals fold -- often. State government give "life" to these entities through legislation, and that legislation grants the ability to own property to these entities.

    So look to your state laws to find out what happens to intellectual property when these companies fold. Suggest to your local representative that these laws are amended so works that aren't reassigned through a public announcement become public domain.

    In Maine, I believe for corporations, this is the relevant statute for amending (Title 13-C Sec. 1440). Notice how all assets are to be reduced to cash(!):

    Assets of a dissolved corporation that should be transferred to a creditor, claimant or shareholder of the corporation who can not be found or who is not competent to receive the assets must be reduced to cash and deposited with the Treasurer of State or other appropriate state official for safekeeping in accordance with Title 33, chapter 41. When the creditor, claimant or shareholder furnishes satisfactory proof of entitlement to the amount deposited, the Treasurer of State or other appropriate state official shall pay the creditor, claimant or shareholder or that person's representative that amount. [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, 2 (new); Pt. B, 7 (aff).]

  45. Watch out where you relocate by Anders+Andersson · · Score: 2, Informative
    Relocate the server to some small island in international waters or some country that doesn't give a Flying...ya know... about U.S. laws

    (I'm intentionally cutting that quote short)

    While your suggestion may indeed be meaningful with respect to "some small island in international waters", relocating your server to a country that doesn't pay attention to United States laws (there are several of those) isn't going to help you a bit. This legal case isn't about challenging overbroad U.S. legislation (for whatever definition of "overbroad"), this is about challenging the constitutionality of recent changes to U.S. copyright law, changes that came about as a result of the United States acceeding to an international treaty, namely the Berne Convention.

    Your operation handing out copies of old works still under copyright protection will be regulated by essentially the same copyright regime in any Berne Convention country where you choose to relocate. That's a little over 100 countries, probably most of the countries where you would want to relocate. If you want to put up a fight, make sure that you are fighting the right enemy (the Berne Convention, not the United States).

    As for myself, I don't consider copyright by default to be much of a problem, but that's because Sweden acceeded to the Berne Convention even before I was born, and copyright by default is the general rule in Europe. It's the United States that is the latecomer in this respect.

    Even if the challenge is successful on constitutional grounds, I doubt the United States could amend its copyright legislation to your liking and still be in compliance with the Berne Convention. As Kahle suggests, you would have to discriminate against your own citizens, requiring United States authors to register their works for copyright protection, while granting it automatically to foreign authors (or authors from other Berne Convention countries, to be precise). Would you accept that?

    Even with automatic copyright protection, I think it should be up to the copyright holder to sue for infringement. Unfortunately, the Swedish supreme court found in one case that infringement had occurred even without a lawsuit from the proper copyright holder.