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Photos and Commentary On AMD's PIC

Posted by timothy on from the such-a-cute-box dept.

vincecate writes "I just purchased a brand new AMD PIC which has been on Slashdot and LinuxDevices. I have opened it up and put some pictures and comments on the web. Some interesting things are that the system uses only 8 watts, the Windows CE does not want you installing any software, you can not get to the BIOS settings, and I was not able to boot Linux." (He was able, though, to boot Linux from an IDE device on a mini-ITX system also based on the Geode processor.)

57 of 394 comments (clear)

  1. Geez... by k4_pacific · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Windows CE does not want you installing any software, you can not get to the BIOS settings,"

    It might as well not even have a keyboard or monitor port. Yeesh.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
    1. Re:Geez... by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It might as well not even have a keyboard or monitor port. Yeesh."

      Didja read the bit about who the target audience is and what it does do?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Geez... by Catbeller · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The whole idea is to allow poor people to get on the internet."

      Well, then it is highly illogical to use Windows, no? Linux and OpenOffice are both "free", as in: not costing money.

      AMD doesn't need MS for this at all. The price of the box would be much cheaper without Redmond's contribution.

      So why? Because they want to give MS a bone. MS likes bones, and if you don't feed them the occasional femur, they start thinking that meat would taste better. The meat of your still-beating heart, freshly ripped from your chest during the hostile takeover, or during the utter destruction of your business model.

    3. Re:Geez... by harrkev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yup. And a poor person in another country would NEVER want to improve their education by installing a compiler in order to learn C++ or Java. And an electrical engineering student would never want to install SPICE. And I guess this means that there will be no educational software on these things. If you want an education, you have to get on-line. And this is the type of system marketed to people WITHOUT broadband. So this thing will tie up the phone line unless using strictly built-in apps. And I have heard that some areas have a per-minute internet charge.

      Yes, the concept is cool. But if the system is completely locked down, then this is nothing more than a glorified internet appliance. And NONE of those survived very long. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between a computer and an internet appliance. A computer lets you install software. Let me illustrate:

      Computer: "What do you want to do?"
      Internet appliance: "I will tell you what you are allowed to do."

      See the difference?

      Don't get me wrong. This is still cool. Just not as cool as it could have been. But I must admit that AMD likely did this in order to prevent viruses, worms, and trojans - which is not necessarily a bad thing.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Geez... by somethinghollow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's funny when someone says they tried to install linux and it didn't work, they get chastised for trying. If he never mentioned Linux at all, there would be at least 5 users asking "Yes, but does it run Linux?" ;)

    5. Re:Geez... by dmaxwell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about a poor geek in such a country? I find this attitude of "It's an almost charity thing and you should be grateful for what we choose to give you." to be very condencending.

      It will be perfectly natural for a few recipients of these things to gain skills and to try to find a way to get them to do other things. There is VERY little reason for these to be locked down to the extent that they are.

    6. Re:Geez... by Tassach · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's supposed to be for charity
      You fail basic reading comprehension. Put down the doobie and come out of your bleeding-heart fantasyland.

      Did you RTFA, or did you just pull that out of your ass? The only subsidy mentioned in the article is a mention that THIRD PARTY companies can license the design from AMD and sell their own branded version at a subsidized price:

      The chipmaker plans to go forward by essentially licensing the PIC design to local companies, including telecommunications or Internet service providers, allowing them to use local contract manufacturers and control distribution, marketing and pricing of their PICs. Thus the companies will sell PICs under their own brand names and be free to subsidize the machines' cost to lower the price consumers pay. AMD is targeting companies in Brazil, China, India, Mexico and Russia, initially.
      AMD is making a profit on this, guaranteed. Maybe not a huge profit per unit, but there are BILLIONS of people in their target market. They'll make money selling Geode processors to the licensees, and they'll make money off of licensing fees. The licensees (telcos and ISPs) aren't doing it for charity, either: they're doing it to expand their market and get more paying customers.

      Trivialising it by suggesting it's some sort of geek toy is just pathetic
      What's pathetic is your lack of touch with reality. This isn't some noble utopian project to bring the Internet to the starving masses for free. This is one megacorporation marketing a device to other megacorporations to help those megacorporations make a profit off of poor people.

      Getting Linux to run on this isn't just a Geek Toy. Doing so will empower ALL people to use a cheap (possibly subsidized) general-purpose computing device in ways other than their corporate masters want them to use it. The telcos and ISPs who will be licensing this want nice obediant consumers who'll buy the device, subscribe to their service, and use it to buy stuff from their advertisers & partners.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  2. Put ReactOS on it. by isolation · · Score: 3, Interesting

    seeing as it has limited hardware or software support under Windows CE if they must have a Windows-like OS then we could get ReactOS running on it.

    --
    Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
    1. Re:Put ReactOS on it. by stupidfoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One would question why they went with Windows CE. Microsoft must have given them an amazing price otherwise it simply would have eaten up too much of the $195. I'm guessing MS is selling them copies at less than $5 a pop, but who know.

      Wouldn't this truly be something much better suited to use Linux or some other freely available OS?

      I'll answer my own question (as it is obvious): Yes.

    2. Re:Put ReactOS on it. by Surur · · Score: 4, Informative


      Win CE *is* about $5 a pop, for most applications, including pocketpc's. $5 is not far from free, and Win CE is open source to the OEM's, to modify as they see fit. Further more there are a lot of drivers available for Win CE already, and they get supported by microsoft. Its not too bad a deal.

      And we KNOW microsoft is salivating over getting into the 3rd world cheap computer market before Linux and other free software takes hold, robbing them of future revenue forever.

      Surur

      --
      Information is the location of things. Computation is moving things around.
    3. Re:Put ReactOS on it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Win CE is open source to the OEM's

      Open source doesn't just mean access to the source code.

  3. Linux on PIC by MoxFulder · · Score: 5, Informative

    This article on LinuxDevices discusses the possibility of installing Linux on the PIC.

    --
    My bicyles
  4. how about a useful link... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Like where to buy one?

    I would certianly like to get one to tinker with and make do things that are against the wishes of the manufacturer.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:how about a useful link... by bandrzej · · Score: 2, Insightful

      same here...i am also interested in buying one since they are low power, fanless, and would make a good hardware/software hacking project :-)

      --

      LainTheWired = isgod( int Lain, int denial, float truth)

  5. Boot problem by spotteddog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem booting from the CF card is probablly just a partition type or signature thing. It would be interesting to hook the hard drive from the PIC up to a working Linux box (as hdb or hdc) and poke around to see how it is partitioned. Maybe a block copy from the hard drive to the CF would create a booting CF based system. Granted it still would be running WinCE, but it would be a start.....

    --
    . there used to be a sig here.....
    1. Re:Boot problem by kmurray · · Score: 2, Informative

      It looks like the BIOS is using Crypto to lock the OS. Check out the link.
      One of the "Custom Features" the BIOS company did was "Boot Security". Sounds like something the XBOX uses. We'll probably have to wait until someone comes up with a mod chip.

  6. Cryptographic BIOS? by reality-bytes · · Score: 5, Informative
    Apparently, the BIOS is designed by General Software for AMD and features a 'cryptographic handshake' between BIOS and O/S.

    The Boot Security Application is a firmware application that establishes trust between platform hardware and the user application, preventing operation of systems compromised by unauthorized tampering with BIOS, OS, or application with cryptographic signatures on all trusted objects.


    This sounds like a horrible lock-in to Windows CE ie: "We only want you to run what we want you to run"

    However, in the same document:

    Supporting both Linux and Windows, the Boot Security Application requires the user application running under Linux or Windows to periodically (as defined by a policy established by the ODM/OEM in the system registry) request security challenges and provide challenge responses, convincing the Boot Security Application, which represents the hardware and firmware, that the application is genuine. Similarly, the Boot Security Application responds to out-of-band challenges as requested by the user application, to convince the user application that it is running on genuine hardware and firmware.


    So it now looks more like; "You can run another O/S but only if all the software is registered with us first"

    The first line of attack with getting Linux running on an AMD PIC would appear to be by simply contacting General Software and asking if they are willing to provide some advice (Its worth a try).
    --
    Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
    1. Re:Cryptographic BIOS? by Lehk228 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      sounds to me like the point is to provide some serious virus/trojen/spyware hardening for sale in an environment full of new users and poor availability of tech support.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:Cryptographic BIOS? by anum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect that they (AMD) don't want you to think of this as a general purpose PC but rather more like an embedded internet device. In other words, it is designed to always run in kiosk mode. It may limit its funtionality but it should also limit problems like spyware and mainstream apps that need a lot more horsepower than this thing has.

      --
      I don't think, Therefore I'm not.
  7. PIC? by gUmbi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did anyone else think 'programmable interrupt controller'? It's too early...

    1. Re:PIC? by Garabito · · Score: 3, Insightful

      or a PIC-like microcontroller made by AMD?

    2. Re:PIC? by Garak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends on the application, for electronics and engineering PIC's and 68HC11's are where its at. Its all about the timer interrups.

      --
      God, root, what is the difference?
  8. Reason why you can't fiddle with it by magarity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Look at the target market kids; some village in inner Mongolia or northeastern India saves up to buy a computer with the help of a government grant. The first thing that happens is someone accidentally screws up the BIOS settings or downloads and installs some flakey software. Wanna guess how easy it is to get a tech out to fix it? Be serious and stop your whining about WinCE and no BIOS access. It obviously isn't for you. The thing's capabilitis in terms of software/firmware were very carefully considered in light of its target demographic.

    1. Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it by WARM3CH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. The design goals of this device is clearly are: Providing minimum requirments to access and browse the net, and do basic word processing and that's all! It should not require any service, patches for a long time. Many slashdotters many nor realize that design of such a system is quite different from normal PCs and is a completely different beast. You need a system to do something very basic, only do this job and do it right with no future need for any chagnes. This is logical to lock it in a way that making any changes to it be very difficult. Not only to protect it from the users, but also from all unknown possible future threats on the net. You can imagine millions of such simple machines round the world and far from any service center can be a very good target for spammers, black-hats and anyone who needs a hord of zobie machines. How would you design such a thing if you needed to do it with such a tight price limit?

    2. Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I fully understand that reasoning. My question is, why not have the maker put a custom version of Linux on it and lock that down? I don't see the need to require the Microsoft tax on something that needs to be as inexpensive as possible, especially considering the target demographic.

    3. Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it by anum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What makes you think that Microsoft is "taxing" these boxes?
      Microsoft (and just about every other large company in the world) is more than willing to SUBSIDISE projects like this for market penetration. I wouldn't be suprised to find out that MS has at least helped with design if not funding.
      Remember, this box is intentionally limited. Consider it a teaser or loss leader. The first one is free...

      --
      I don't think, Therefore I'm not.
    4. Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it by justins · · Score: 3, Funny
      Consider it a teaser or loss leader. The first one is free...

      Right. Becuase once they're hooked, those sub-Saharan Africans will be ready to shell out the big bucks for all sorts of software and electronics. AMD and Microsoft will have them right where they want them.

      Come on.
      --
      Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
    5. Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it by morgue-ann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      those sub-Saharan Africans will be ready to shell out the big bucks

      But when the kids (which are the gross majority of the population in many developing countries) grow up and specify computers for business & government, the seed will have been planted. The market for high-margin products in target countries might be small now, but it has huge potential for growth. Developed countries have most of the computers they need & only replace them every few years.

      Think long term....

  9. flash drives and longevity by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I remember several years ago I was boasting about running some of my servers from Flash IDE drives, and I immediately was blasted with comments like: "yes, but you can only write to the Flash disk so many times before it fails". Any comments on that? Was that ever the case, and if so, is it still the case?

    --
    MORTAR COMBAT!
    1. Re:flash drives and longevity by slide-rule · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depending on whose number you believe, flash drives are good for about 100k writes... not that such a number tells me how long it would last. Anyway, I'm working on a CF-based server, but the CF will be effectively read-only, as the file system will mount into a ram-drive... for what I'm needing, I don't need any additional writes (or I can mount a network drive or something).

    2. Re:flash drives and longevity by The_countess · · Score: 5, Informative

      you can change a bit of a flash drive about 100.000 times. for everyday use this is more then enough but linux changes a lot of things quite often so it wears out relativly quickly. there are however specialy distributions for flash drives that change verry little, and work almost exclusivly in RAM.

  10. This would make a GREAT car computer by TheUnFounded · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm planning my Senior design for next year, and it looks like its gonna involve a computer in a car (I know, original, eh?). The problem was going to be selecting the parts that'd be cheap enough and portable enough.

    This would be IDEAL; basically a hopped-up PDA with a regular full screen interface available. BUT: I don't want to run CE!! I know the poster hasn't been able to, but if anyone knows of a hack that has managed to put Linux on this beastie, please post!!

    1. Re:This would make a GREAT car computer by ParnBR · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Friend, I appreciate the sentiment. But I live in a so-called third world country and not every "intended customers" here are worried about feeding themselves and not getting shot at. In fact, a big part of this country is really poor, but not that violent. So, please, don't generalize, ok? :)

      --
      My neighbor's .sig is better than mine.
  11. Why no Linux? by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm highly disappointed that AMD isn't offering a Linux-based version, especially as there is no good reason not to -- Linux already can do everything this device is supposed to be able to do.

    This is merely more evidence supporting my theory that Microsoft are paying companies sizeable -- and very illegal -- cash bribes to actively not support other operating systems.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Why no Linux? by dave420 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Because no-one will support a linux install on the box, most likely.

      They use Windows because Microsoft will support the installations. They will custom-write a version of their own OS, and ensure it's as hardened as possible. Who's going to do that for a linux port? Which company is going to write the "encrypted handshake" software for Linux? Exactly. With no central "linux" organisation, no-one can do this work.

      Don't be disappointed with AMD - these boxes aren't for you. You're already on the internet, so that's obvious. These boxes are for remote areas where there is no tech support. If someone's linux box goes tits up because the 14-year-old Finnish kid who wrote the distro they picked made some mistake, no-one will be able to get to it, and the owners will have no idea what to do.

      So, basically, they chose MS because they could get closer to what they needed.

  12. Windup power supply? by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Considering that companies make Windup radios and flashlights I wonder if they could make a similar generator for the AMD PIC. Given, that the monitor would require more power, but the windup might supply enough wattage for the PC itself.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  13. I know this company by koi88 · · Score: 2, Funny


    Apparently, the BIOS is designed by General Software

    Is this the company that also developed the famous "General Protection Fault"?

    --

    I don't need a signature.
  14. Beginning reverse engineering by DanMc · · Score: 5, Informative
    I think the first thing to do is take the WinCE drive and put it on a PC and make a 'dd' backup. Poke around, analyze it. Does it have a traditional partition table? dd clone onto a CF disk and see if it boots WinCE in the PIC?

    If there really is a well designed "OS Handshake" to boot, try to work around it. Can you let WinCE complete the handshake, then use something like 'bootlin' to bootstrap linux? I think there was an evolution of bootlin into the windows days but can't recall it's name.

    1. Re:Beginning reverse engineering by rRaminrodt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no stamp on it that says, "Poor People Only". Besides I'm quite confident that the company would be happy to make more. He's not robbing a charity, he's purchasing a product. It just happens to be aimed at low cost markets.

      Just because I can afford an expensive product I should choose it over a cheaper one? That's not very resonable... especially since these folks are trying to satisfy their curiosity about a new piece of hardware.

      --
      They'll think I've lost control again and leave it all to evolution. -- Supreme Being, Time Bandits
    2. Re:Beginning reverse engineering by anagama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jeez Dave420 - smoke a bowl.
      • Monday was the first day the PIC was available in Anguilla and I bought the first one ...The PIC is a very low power system ... This is like 100 watts less than some other machines we have. At island electric rates this should save more than $200 each year, if the machine is on all the time.

      Quit repeating yourself - we all know it is your opinion that this device is only for 3d world people and that you think that 3d world residents are too unsophisticated to use technology (support issue responses). Also, you believe people shouldn't put linux on this because that somehow hurts the 3d world users. Well, if you RTFA, you would note that the author lives in a 3d world country. It appears that 3d world residents have a good reason to put linux on the AMDPIC and make it a useful device. The electricity savings alone would make this machine almost pay for itself (it was about $250 after shipping/duty charges for the author of the original article). Apparently, even people in the 3d world would find it useful to able to use the AMDPIC as a computer.

      So chill out - we all heard your opinion. Your point is made. Some of us disagree and repeating it ad nauseum is not going to change our minds.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  15. Not meant to last by rexguo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I saw a Lithium CR232 battery in one of the photos. By making it hard to remove and voiding the warranty by opening it up, this thing is not meant to last for more than a couple of years for the regular Joe.

    --
    www.rexguo.com - Technologist + Designer
  16. why called PIC? by kcelery · · Score: 3, Insightful
    PIC seems to be a registered trademark of MICROCHIP, this is extracted from one of their web page:

    About Microchip Technology

    Microchip Technology Inc. (NASDAQ: MCHP) is a leading provider of microcontroller and analog semiconductors, providing low-risk product development, lower total system cost and faster time to market for thousands of diverse customer applications worldwide. Headquartered in Chandler, Arizona, Microchip offers outstanding technical support along with dependable delivery and quality. For more information, visit the Microchip website at www.microchip.com.
    ###
    Note: The Microchip name and logo, PIC and MPLAB are registered trademarks of Microchip Technology Inc. in the USA and other countries. PICDEM is a registered trademark of Microchip Technology Inc. in the USA and other countries. I2C is a trademark of Philips Corporation. SPI is a trademark of Motorola. Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft. All other trademarks mentioned herein are the property of their respective companies

  17. Install LinuxBIOS by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 4, Informative

    LinuxBIOS supports the AMD Geodes. You'd have to do a little hardware hacking (flash in a socket, to allow recovery from a bad LinuxBIOS image) to get the first working image of LinuxBIOS working. After that it's just re-flash and you're up and running with LinuxBIOS!

    www.linuxbios.com

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
    1. Re:Install LinuxBIOS by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 2, Informative

      The above link should be www.linuxbios.org

      LinuxBIOS

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
  18. Shouldn't they be able to make this cheaper? by slusich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    $185 still seems like a pretty high price for something designed to provide access to the third world.
    Seems like they should be able to design a cheaper unit for this.

    --

    DeviantArt Page

    NSFW
  19. Re:*Limited* Windows CE included! by martin-k · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Strange. My PIC runs at 1024*768 and definitely allows me to run TextMaker, PlanMaker, Media Player, and Internet Explorer at the same time.

    Sure you didn't confuse this with the crippled XP Microsoft is selling in Asia?

    --
    SoftMaker Office for Windows|Linux|Android
  20. It's the software, stupid... by martin-k · · Score: 3, Interesting
    *I* find the software on the PIC much more interesting than the hardware. But that's maybe because we wrote it... :-)

    See English or Portuguese article about the SoftMaker apps on AMD's PIC.

    --
    SoftMaker Office for Windows|Linux|Android
  21. Re:Paperweight. by dave420 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR YOU

    It's for poor people who can't afford to get online. People who make $1,000-$6,000 PER YEAR. They are people who don't care about linux, who don't want to install p2p, who don't want 17 different media players for their downloaded simpsons.

    This PC is not for you, so the fact you don't like it means absolutely zero.

    You moaning about it is like if you went to a soup kitchen, moved some starving people out of the way, tried the soup and proclaimed very loudly "This soup tastes like shit! I'm off to a fancy restaurant for a steak!". You don't see the point, as you can afford something better. Not everyone can. Count yourself lucky, don't put down their only option.

  22. Re:*Limited* Windows CE included! by dave420 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The fewer the features, the less can go wrong. These boxes are supposed to be zero-maintainance. As in, someone buys one, they never EVER need to get fixed.

    These computers aren't for you. They're not for anyone you know. They're probably not for anyone in your country.

    They're for people who make just over $1,000 A YEAR (not week).

    If they put linux on there, it would need a larger storage device and technical support. That's why it's not on there.

  23. Re:Paperweight. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please tell me, how is locking out Linux making the system cheaper?

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  24. Re:Paperweight. by sleepingsquirrel · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's for poor people who can't afford to get online.
    <Flame=on> Since when is free software not for poor people?!? Maybe free speech isn't for the poor either. Why should poor people live in the Microsoft-only ghetto? How could limiting software choice possibly add value to those devices? Your moaning sounds like the indignant soup kitchen owner who is upset because the poor won't eat your rancid swill, prefering to feed it to their hogs!<Flame=off>
  25. AMD is already exploring PIC Linux by taj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:06:53 -0600
    From: "Hale, Brad"
    To: Trent Jarvi
    Subject: RE: PIC Linux

    Trent, thanks for your interest in AMD's PIC. We have not entered an
    exclusive agreement with Microsoft and are currently working with a number of
    Linux developers for future support. Please check back on AMD's web site for
    future announcements regarding Linux support.

    Regards,

    Brad Hale
    Business Development
    Value Platforms
    Advanced Micro Devices
    (XXX) XXXX-XXXX

    -----Original Message----- ...

  26. Linux running on this device by anonymous123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The company Linspire is working with AMD and they have linspire already working on this device. AMD made a special version with the bios enabled for usb cdrom boot support. I hear that Linspire is going to be shipping these computers for $150 all over the world. Finally linux hits the mass market and thank god it is linspire.

  27. Re:Paperweight. by ParnBR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I make $5,000 per year. Not too shabby, considering I am a public worker in Brazilian education area. =) I'm a bit skeptic about the unit's cost here, since imported goods (especially computer-related) are heavily taxed in Brazil. My income makes me a probable target for the PIC, although I already have a fair computer (which I painstakingly bought with months of savings).

    Although I already have a PC, I'd like to sink my teeth in one of these. If I could install Linux in it, it would be the ideal test bed for all sorts of crazy stuff I have in mind; since I can only afford one computer, I can't do most of this stuff in my main computer (and things like VMWare are off-limits to me, because they aren't the fastest thing around and require a lot of memory and storage I can't spare).

    But then, I'm just a relatively poor geek. This product wasn't made for me. I can only dream if it were... =)

    --
    My neighbor's .sig is better than mine.
  28. "Take a step back and shut the fuck up for a sec." by Didion+Sprague · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What about a poor geek in such a country?

    This brings up a couple interesting points, none of which are really worth pursuing. But I'm surprised (or maybe not surprised) to see that most Slashdotters posting about this and what it can and can't do have remarkable tunnel-vision.

    This isn't meant to be a "geek" machine. This isn't for a "poor geek" (who, I'm sure, if he or she was worth his or her geekiness, would find other, better machines to receive geek training from). It's a *tool* -- much in the same way that a hammer or a pair of pliers are tools.

    In fact, you sound like a bunch of carpenters complaining that no one is gonna use a $4 hammer from Home Depot when what they really need is a $49.95 double-balanced claw hammer with an oxide tip to "properly sink nails."

    Yeah, that's nice, but when I need a hammer -- I need a hammer. I could care less about the size of the claw or the oxide tip.

    I realize most folks here are in college and high school and aren't yet capable (this is gonna sound condescending, but it's true) doing what my old comp sci professor called "taking a step back and shutting the fuck up for a second."

    (This is the same guy who urged us all to read Shakespeare in order to understand that what's really at the core of computer science is humanity -- not silicon. At the time we laughed. Now, twenty years later, I've come to understand he's exactly right.)

    Anyway. I digress. And I condescend. But, really. the windows/linux stuff is necessary sometimes, funny other times, but in this case, it completely misses the point. What no one is mentioning is the cultural *reason* for such a low-cost box -- and how (and why) the internet has become (oddly?) indispensible -- even for those "poor folks" in the sticks.

    That's pretty amazing, actually. And it seems to be the most significant part of this story.

  29. This thing is the future of computers by Garak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This thing really is the future of computers. I know alot of geeks don't really want hear that.

    There really isn't any need for a large HD, 3d video, fast processor, upgradablity, etc... in an office PC or even a home PC. Something like this little box is all you need. Legacy free, simple, cheap, etc...

    The only software an office PC really needs is a webbroswer and all the applications can be webbased. This kind of goes back to the mainframe style computing of the 70's. Current broswers are not really suited for this but you get the idea.

    Once standards get alittle more defined there will be no need to upgrade a computer. Things are already leveling off in proformance. Its just the big companys trying to maintain upgrade cycles to keep the revenue streams going thats fueling faster processors.

    A PC for the people will just be a small box like this with a few USB ports, maybe USB 3.0 will become the standard. With a simple standardized interface so that no 3rd party drivers will be needed. No internal HD. Lots of ram, OS in rom, most apps will be internet based. This requires alot of future looking standards to be put in place.

    If so someone wants todo video editing, the video editing software will run right on the camcorder, they just plug the camcorder into the usb port and go. No need for the video files ever to see the PC. The DVD burner will be built right into the camcorder, this will be pushed by the copyright lobbist. Same goes for music...

    If someone wants to Play games they buy a console or play webbased games(kinda like flash games but with 3D maybe). The game console may not connect to the TV, it may just plug into a USB port.

    All these changes are going to be fueled by a few things.
    1) Copyright, PC's with HD's and burners make media copying to easy.
    2) People want simpler computers, the adverage person dosn't want to have to worry about upgrading or installing software or drivers. People want true plug and play. For this to work we need strict standards.
    3) Security - If you can't install any software than worms and virus can't install them selfs basicly. Its the only real solution to todays virus/worm/spyware problems.
    4) Price - people want cheaper PC's, by removing the drives and other moving parts PC's become cheaper and last longer.

    The only place left for us geeks will be on high priced servers where all the web/net based applications are done.

    --
    God, root, what is the difference?
    1. Re:This thing is the future of computers by Garak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Alittle more to add to this rant...

      The PC could basicly just become an ethernet switch that connects the display, input devices(keyboard and mouse), speakers(with built in DAC and amp), and other media devices together. You just login to your ISP's 'mainframe' and your desktop is basicly just a trusted webpage from which you could use a webbroswer to browse to untrusted sites. You should beable to login to the trusted 'mainframe' from any computer anywhere in the world and have all your desktop settings, etc... Once logged in, the trusted 'mainframe' would probe your local network and provide links to your hardware and setup stuff like audio feeds to your speakers. The connection between your hardware and the ISP's mainframe would be only permitted while your logged in.

      Ofcourse all this is going to require fiber to the home or atleast to the neighborhood and copper from there. Lots of bandwidth will be needed for realtime loss less audio and video.

      This is the only way really to ensure security. Sure we lose the ablity to run our own OS, save media locally, etc... But we gain the abillity to have our documents, media and settings go where ever we do. You will beable to walk up to any computer and instantly have all your custom settings. Ofcourse it all has to have end to end encryption.

      All this is quite a few years off yet, maybe google will get things started with their OS.

      --
      God, root, what is the difference?