Microsoft Releases Toolbar Suite

Philipp Lenssen writes "Microsoft today released the MSN Toolbar Suite Beta. This brings true desktop search to Windows (for those who don't have Google Desktop Search or similar software running already) and also includes features like search term highlighting in web pages, auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker."

Comments

Bundled Soon?

[fembots]

Who wants to bet that this suite is going to be bundled in the next Windows? It's pretty easy for them to integrate this toolbar into any Windows-apps like IE, Outlook, calendar etc since they also happen to write the OS.

I always maintain that the majority of users don't know they have a choice, hence they're using/starting/opening whatever that's been thrown at them.

It's quite convenient for MS to sit and see what works, then create their own, and with their dominance in desktop OS, they can easily claim a huge chunk of the desktop-suite market share overnight.

It wouldn't be as easy for its online search service because that requires users to go there, thus opens up the "choice" perspective.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm glad they did this. honestly i like ms stuff and hell i'm glad they came out with a toolbar so i dont have to download one from google or anyone else. they designed the os, the browser - they probably know best when designing this add-in toolbar.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[wastingtape]

It's quite convenient for MS to sit and see what works, then create their own, and with their dominance in desktop OS, they can easily claim a huge chunk of the desktop-suite market share overnight.

Seems to work though wouldn't you say? I think a lot of business models are fashioned after low-risk investments. If someone else has already done the R&D why not "borrow" some from them? A good examples of positive externalities.

Actually, as you mentioned, integration with all of MS's tools is probably great... for people who use them. Devaiting from the norm has it's consequences however. Running SquirrelMail as your primary mail client you rarely get support like this (heck i can't even click a mailto: link and have a window open up). It's all good for ma and pa Dell Windows XP machine.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[kayen_telva]

using the firefox extension "linkification" you can have your default mail "client" be a webpage, like squirrelmal

Re:Bundled Soon?

[Porn Whitelist]

auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker

What it really means (IMHO) - they're feeling the heat from both firefox AND google.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[Martin Blank]

Unlikely, as even Microsoft wouldn't consider this a critical update, which is the only thing that AutoUpdate downloads. If they tried that, they'd have thousands of large corporate customers ticked off that this had been dropped onto their systems without their consent.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[Martin Blank]

Especially since most of them have icons for all 168 programs and 2978 files they've made sitting right there...

Re:Bundled Soon?

[slonkak]

No, most corporations use an internal SUS server to distribute Windows Updates. Using SUS, the administrator must first approve the critical updates before they get pushed to the clients. That is, unless some assclown configured the SUS server and makes it auto-approve anything...

Re:Bundled Soon?

[1u3hr]

But the computer and electronics industry tends to confirm the first mover advantage:

Microsoft - first microcomputer software company
Intel - first microprocessor company
Oracle - first reliable and commercial RDMS company
AOL - one of the original online services
Xerox - first photocopier company
Sony - first widespread transistor radio company

You've got to be joking. That just shows that the real first movers have been wiped from the public mind.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[Trepalium]

Microsoft - first microcomputer software company
I don't know who was 'first', but Microsoft was founded in 1975. Gary Kildall's CP/M dates back to 1973 or 1974. Digital Research Inc., the company that was founded to sell CP/M was also founded in 1975.

AOL - one of the original online services
CompuServe predates AOL by quite a bit. CompuServe was founded in 1969. The company ("The Source") that would eventually become AOL was founded in 1978.

Intel - first microprocessor company
Sony - first widespread transistor radio company
Texas Instuments was probably the first to develop both these technologies. The microprocessor situation is fuzzy at best. TI's transistor radio predates Sony's by about three years (and Robert Denk's radio may have predated that by another 6 years). Sony's wasn't even first-to-market. That honor belonged to I.D.E.A's Regency TR-1.

Frankly, I don't think there's any 'first mover advantage' in these examples at all. On the other hand, there's a very real ability for the dominant companies to use their marketing muscle to 'rewrite' history in their favor. Few people question the 'fact' that Microsoft was the first software company, or that Intel invented the microprocessor, or that AOL was the first online service.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[1u3hr]

in fact it was mainly your knee-jerk reaction and lack of any real information that made me go look these up.

Sorry, I had an appointment. But I knew most of those, certainly Microsoft (ever heard of CP/M from Digital Research?) and Intel, were in no way the first movers, so that's what jerked my knee.

The original poster is vindicated.

Your own post shows that none of the companies, except perhaps Xerox, was the "first mover". So who is vindicated? Changing the qualification to "first popularizer" is a different question altogether.

Re:Bundled Soon?

[nelsonal]

First mover advantage is very important in markets with network effects (ebay is the best example I can think of) in which the first guy there has a very valuable advantage by getting there first. The advantage is conferred by lower costs than later competitors to create their business network because the network they create is more valuable the more users it has. Later competitors (think about how little business there was on uBid or Yahoo auctions) must spend more per user than the initial competitor as their network is less valuable. Once eBay got the first million users it became considerably more difficult for uBid to sign up their 10,000th in then ebay had signing up its 10,000th user.
MS dominance was a result of being a first mover, but not in the way you think. Bill and Co were the first to figure out that application development had network effects and as a result courted application developers better than their earlier peers.
Intel has considerably less first mover advantage, if anything they achieved some advantages in manufacturing which allowed them to cover any other missteps by out investing their compeitors in down cycles (when AMD is attempting to remain solevant in a big downturn, Intel is building the next gen fabs.
AOL has never been anything except a stock scam that continued until they bought half of a real company.
Oracle built a natural monopoly (as did Veritas, Intuit, BEA and almost every other software company) but first mover was not the reason. Software is a natural monopoly because there is only room for a single competitor (two competitors are less efficient than a single one in software development) being first made little difference being the first to get bigger than any compeitors was crucial. If anything I'd say Oracle is experiencing rents to Larry's pursuasive selling of relational databases better than any competitors, and they probably would have won even if Informix had been offering RDBMS first. Development costs are fixed so the company with the most users has a lower production cost (which is why MS is terrified of the increasing vibrance of the linux development community). To many management gurus (stock shills) whove never heard of industrial organization attempt to use very specific technical terms to mean things they were never intended to mean. Pets.com was not operating in a business that conferred any advantage to the first mover (that couldn't be replicated as easily by a later competitor). Amazon got a tiny amount of first mover advantage from the free media coverage by being the only dotcom most media companies did stories on. Although there was no lack of coverage of B&N's entry to online marketing.

Re:Google toolbar for Firefox

[zachtib]

There is a toolbar for firefox: check here: http://www.firefoxtoolbar.com/

Ironically...

[wasted]

The toolbar claims to block annoying popups, but the most annoying pop-up on my work computer (where I am forced to use Internet Exploder) is the one that says I have Active X disabled.

Re:Ironically...

[urlgrey]

I wish there were a:

"Please don't show me this error message ever again for any reason whatsoever even if it's a life threatening situation. Ever. Really. I mean it. I'm sure."

checkbox and button combo for that.

Re:Ironically...

[Boiling_point_]

I know how to fix that! Go to Tools, Internet Options, Security tab, then click the "Custom level..." button.

Scroll down until you see a heading "ActiveX controls and plugins", and then select "enable" for every option in that section.

Voila - problem solved! I hope this helps. :)

What's the big deal?

[77Punker]

Windows includes a search function. IE with SP2 blocks popups. IE has been auto-completing things for a while, too. I don't understand why Microsoft made this. Even if the features are improved in the toolbar, shouldn't they have just improved the backend and just distribted it via Windows Update?

Popup blocker?

[mind21_98]

Doesn't XP SP2 come with a popup blocker? Why would they put another one in (besides bringing popup blocking to earlier versions of Windows)? It just seems like a waste to me.

Re:Popup blocker?

[Stormwatch]

> Why would they put another one in
> (besides bringing popup blocking
> to earlier versions of Windows)?

That could be a huge reason: to keep people with older Windows from adopting the "other" way to block popups... *cough*Firefox*cough*

Re:Popup blocker?

[zakezuke]

Why would they put another one in ... It just seems like a waste to me.

Microsoft Messenger (TM)
Messenger Service of Windows (TM?)
MSN Mesanger (TM)
Windows Messenger (TM)
Microsoft Windows Messaging (TM)

Microsoft - Seems like a waste to me!

Re:Google toolbar for Firefox

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's another link: http://googlebar.mozdev.org/

Another Microsoft Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

"Oh, Google and Yahoo! did it? Well, then we better, too!"

target audience?

[Poleris]

so... who here is actually going to use this? no one?

so that means it's targetted to a less technically-adept audience, right? how is microsoft going to make them aware of the advantages of this toolbar? package it with softwar? a giant marketing campaign?

this thing doesn't look like it's going to be a huge success.

Re:target audience?

[FlipmodePlaya]

I believe IE's default homepage is msn.com, and therefore the page millions of people see when they open their browser. They could simply advertise it on that...

*sigh*

[Meetch]

I told the google execs to patent all that, but would they listen? Noooooo!

Desktop Search?

[ikkonoishi]

Like what should have been in an OS from the start?

nice job guys

[VAXGeek]

See, even Microsoft gets to say ME TOO sometimes.

Future predictions for Windows features:

Expose
Tabbed Browsing in IE out of box
Rendezvous
Dashboard

Re:nice job guys

[liangzai]

File extensions

File extensions have been used on the Mac since the first Macs were rolled out. It is just that they haven't been mandatory, and furthermore not limited to three characters. Currently, a file's content can be determined by a) extension, b) magic number, and c) resource fork information. Needless to say, there's no evil_knivel.exe.doc problems on the Mac. Furthermore, file extensions is not a Microsoft invention (Microsoft doesn't invent). IIRC CP/M and predecessors used file extensions, and Billy Boy just copied this method of recognizing file content.

zip files in Finder

I didn't know this. What's the point? ZIP has limited use on a Mac, since it needs special attention to preserve forks. It is used primarily for raw data, and has so many alternate compression schemes (b2zip, gzip and so on). The Finder is not supposed to do everything.

Video conferencing

It is an old feature on the Mac, as is speech recognition, text-to-speech and other technologies.

Fast user switching

Right, just that it didn't make sense before Mac OS X, since Mac OS 9 wasn't a multi-user OS.

Misc. notes

[IO ERROR]

Requires Internet Explorer and Windows 2000 or XP.

May conflict with other pop-up blockers and cause you to not be able to click on anything at all.

The toolbar has to be on-screen for pop-up blocking to work.

Needs administrator privileges to install.

Includes a plugin to search PDF files.

Includes desktop search.

Currently supports U.S. English only. Don't try to install it on a non-U.S. English version of Windows.

I..

[sPaKr]

I for one welcome the coming of our toolbar wielding overlords.

Well this is slashdot

[Dominatus]

For the last time, Microsoft promised features found in Google Desktop and Spotlight, years ago as part of Longhorn. There are *plenty* of cases where MS steals ideas, but in this case Google and Apple got to the market first with a product MS promised about prior.

Yeah, I'm aware MS didn't invent the idea, but they certainly didn't steal it from Google or Apple.

Re:Well this is slashdot

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"but in this case Google and Apple got to the market first with a product MS promised "

Google perhaps, but remember:

TIGER HAS NOT SHIPPED

I love people who comparine a publicly-available Microsoft product to an Apple product that is not publicly available and proclaim that Microsoft is "copying" Apple.

Repeat after me:

* Microsoft announced WinFS *before* Apple announced Tiger

* MSN Desktop search can be downloaded TODAY. Tiger is only available to developers.

* WinFS IS NOT Spotlight.

Paul Thurrott's review

[DavidLeblond]

I just checked out Paul Thurrott's review. I love reading his stuff... first he says that Apple copied Spotlight from Microsoft (because Microsoft said that they were gonna improve search before Apple introduce Spotlight), then he shows off MSN Search which looks suspiciously like Spotlight. And if thats not funny enough, he gives us this little gem:

And then consider that competitors such as Apple and Google tried to preempt Microsoft by announcing similar features, and yet were both unable to deliver final versions before Microsoft simply shipped the MSN Toolbar Suite.

Thats funny... isn't MSN Search a... beta? So "final version" = "beta"? Explains a lot!

Re:Paul Thurrott's review

[Anonymous Coward]

I just took a look at this MS fanboy's site to look at his review of Windows ME. Check it:

It's easy to ridicule Microsoft for milking the Windows 9x cash cow yet again. But the reality is that this release is exceptional, especially considering its technological heritage. Put aside your preconceptions and give Windows Me a chance. I think you'll be surprised.

I'm sure this isn't the worst part of the review, but I can only take so much. I wonder how much MS pays this guy and his ilk to spout such drivel?

Re:Paul Thurrott's review

[typhoonius]

So "final version" = "beta"?

Are we talking about the same Microsoft? "final version"="it compiles"

I don't need a toolbar. WHERE'S CLIPPY?!

[chroot_james]

I want clippy to pop up and point to my search strings in the rendered pages. I also want clippy to say, "I see you're searching with google. Would you like help using microsoft search? How about a hotmail account?"

Re:Google toolbar for Firefox

[AstroDrabb]

Informative? Exactly what is the point of this toolbar? Firefox 1.0 has had built-in Google search for ages and you can add _tons_ of other searches to the toolbar at the click of a button. Searches like Dictionary.com, Amazon, Bible searches, recipe searches, tech searches, shopping, you name it, it is there, hundreds of search engince.

Popup blocking? Uh, Firefox has had that for _ages_. There are currently 175 extension to Firefox 1.0 covering everything from web development to bookmark sync, games, you name it. Who would install _any_ Firefox toolbar from some .com site? It is just probably some tracking code.

Easier BHO-hijacker searches?

[dragon_imp]

It's brilliant! I wonder if this will make the Browser Hijackers' work easier -- just call the desktop search routine in the IE Toolbar instead of writing their own code.

Maybe they could put some more of this creativity into locking down IE and Windows. On the other hand, I make some good money cleaning systems, so there IS a silver lining. <grin>

'desktop search' functionality?

[CAIMLAS]

I just downloaded and installed this thing. 4.some megs for what appears to be an IE plugin. There doesn't seem to be the option to make the 'search' bar integrate with the taskbar at all (which was what my initial pre-install impression was).

I will say that I'd half expected for there to be a minimalist appearance. Nay, there's about 10 different buttons on the bar that gets installed in IE, and I was initially pestered with 2 desktop bar-specific nags. Additionally, the damn thing defaults to searching the web, not the desktop.

So I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes waiting for the thing to build an index. The Google Destop Search tool has about 40Mb of files on this machine, and I honestly don't think I've got much more than (if even) 1Gb of files on it. I've run a search for a couple files within the "My Documents" directory, and nothing turned up. There's no indication that the index is being built, or when it might be done, etc.

There also doesn't appear to be must customization ability for the actual search tool, either. Just build, or rebuild the index. No "exclude directory" type stuff.

The additional pop-ups look useful, though, for an IE user. It's all standard fare for a Firefox user, of course. Considering that most people that would likely use such a tool from MS are likely already using Firefox, I'd say chacnes are slim this sees much fanfare.

Can't say I'm impressed. It's got the same intrusive feel of Clippy, with the nice interface of MSN Search. Not impressed in the least.

Re:'desktop search' functionality?

[g0qi]

I can't believe there isn't a proper response to this. Only in Slashdot will people walk right past this silently.

I just downloaded and installed this thing. 4.some megs for what appears to be an IE plugin. There doesn't seem to be the option to make the 'search' bar integrate with the taskbar at all (which was what my initial pre-install impression was).
You know it's more than an IE plugin. Did you even attempt to look around? Right-click your taskbar, select toobars and you'll see MSN Deskbar there. It actually integrates very nicely with the OS.

I will say that I'd half expected for there to be a minimalist appearance. Nay, there's about 10 different buttons on the bar that gets installed in IE, and I was initially pestered with 2 desktop bar-specific nags. Additionally, the damn thing defaults to searching the web, not the desktop.

What are you smoking? The deskbar defaults to searching the desktop by default, and so does that IE page.

So I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes waiting for the thing to build an index. The Google Destop Search tool has about 40Mb of files on this machine, and I honestly don't think I've got much more than (if even) 1Gb of files on it. I've run a search for a couple files within the "My Documents" directory, and nothing turned up. There's no indication that the index is being built, or when it might be done, etc.

Actually I think there's too much indication. First when it starts off it says it's starting. Then when there's too much processor use, it says it's going to wait a while so you can get done what you want to get done. When it's actually indexing, you get a nice blinking maginfying glass. And finally when it's all done, it says it's done with a messenger like popup icon. All through this process, at any time when you hover over that icon, it tells you what the hell it's doing.

There also doesn't appear to be must customization ability for the actual search tool, either. Just build, or rebuild the index. No "exclude directory" type stuff. Come on man. Right-click that damn thing and select Internet Options...

Not impressed in the least.
You have an IQ of a peanut. I don't think they're going to care if you're impressed or not. Who modded you up +4?

Re:M$ disk arrays, anyone?

[chris_mahan]

I personally think that microsoft should take the content of the HDs and store them on their VerySecure (TM) servers, and do the indexing there.

Then you could search your hard drive from any computer.

Furthermore, you could retrieve any search result files off your hard drive via their FancyP2PProtocol (TM).

Finally, you could then, while browsing with Internet Explorer (TM), get your MSN (TM) news, entertainment, and Hotmail(TM).

But wait, there's more! For a low monthly fee, you'll be part of an Exciting Online Community (TM) and get Amazing and Incredible Offers (TM) from our Most Valued Partners (TM), including but nor restricted to Fantastic Deals (TM) on software, music, and DVDs!

So what are your waiting for? Join the Microsoft Revolution(TM)! Be All You Can Be(TM)! And answer that age old question "Where do you want to go Today(TM)?" with a resounding REDMOND!!!

[note, segue into "Developers developers(TM)" if more than 2 visual basic users are in attendance]

Mozilla/Linux Not Good Enough

[snookerdoodle]

Durn. It sez, "Warning! Your browser does not meet the minimum system requirements. You are recommended to use the MSN Toolbar Suite with Internet Explorer 5.01 or later."

Guess I'll have to, ahem, "upgrade" to IE/Windows so I can get the neat toolbar. Heh heh heh...

Mark

So innovative !

[Etyenne]

This brings true desktop search to Windows (for those who don't have Google Desktop Search or similar software running already) and also includes features like search term highlighting in web pages, auto-completing of forms, and a pop-up blocker.

Wow! I wish FireFox was that innovative !

MSN toolbar hides and disables the Google toolbar

[FiNnZ]

So I decided to install this POS to test it out. The final straw for me was that it hid and disabled my google toolbar in IE. That is:
1) shady
2) annoying
3) typical Microsoft

Do not install this.

Microsoft is doomed.

[rindeee]

I don't say this as an anti-MS zealot or anything. It's just that I've noticed over the past two years Microsoft has gone from a market leader to an almost purely reactive organization. It's amazing to see a company go down hill that quickly.

Re:Microsoft is doomed.

[dioscaido]

Unfortunately, as reactionary as Microsoft is, it works. They take existing ideas, improve on it, and make a killing. The Xbox, .NET & ASP.NET, IIS6, Tablet PCs, Embedded Windows, etc... are neither original or revolutionary, but taken for their merits outside of the Microsoft specter are fantastic applications/platforms. Much like many v1 pieces of software, they had somewhat inauspicious starts, but have slowly matured into solid platforms.

Microsoft is not doomed. Even with the, frankly, much needed, arrival of customer friendly alternatives like OSX, newer linux desktops, Firefox, etc... Microsoft continues to expand into new markets and grow. Even with some horrible embarassments like the constant e-mail viruses, their profits this year were up 11%. Why is that? Is it just because they have a monopoly? Or could it be that even with the issues companies see great value in using MS products?

Being on the inside, I'm quite confident that things look *really* good for the future of MS. They've got quite a few fantastic features in the pipeline for existing products and quite a few new products up their sleeves. And as 'evil' as the company has been, they've realized that they will get eaten alive by Linux and other competitors if their products can't compete on a level playing field -- their monopoly will not last forever. So they have honed in on the one thing that *kills* them now -- Security. And in the past year have totally overhauled the company. All their products are being deeply analyzed for security flaws using threat modelling and other techniques. A huge pain in the ass for my team but much needed. SP2 is a step forward, as have been the patches to many desktop and server products. It sucks that it took this long for Microsoft to realize it, but they have, and the proof is in what's continually coming out of their doors in recent years.

Anyway, enough of a rant. I'm very glad Linux is in the picture. Microsoft can't afford to be a sleeping giant, and in the end we all win -- with killer strides in the Linux Desktop, and with leaps in security in Windows servers. Competition's where it's at!

Re:Microsoft is doomed.

[Neo-Rio-101]

You misunderstand. It became market leader due in part to being a purely reactive organization.

One might argue that Microsoft cannot innovate to save itself, or you could say that Microsoft fills a huge gap by taking best-of-breed IT concepts and working them into a viable solution for customers.

Depends on who the spin doctors are.

Argh - Moral Dillemma

[Mr. Cancelled]

The optimistic geek in me says "This is the desktop search engine you've been waiting for. It's been built by the same company that built the Windows operating system it'll be running under, so you know it'll be more optimized and stable than those other '3rd party' search engines".

While the techie part of me is screaming "It's Microsoft Maaaan! Are you fucking nuts considering this!?"

Re:Well,

[fireman sam]

Your's read the articles? My bonzi buddy simply jerked off then went to sleep.

Re:MSN toolbar hides and disables the Google toolb

[Dr. Sp0ng]

Didn't do that for me, Google toolbar (and Google Desktop) is still there and working fine.