Integrating Linux into a Windows Network?

Di0medies asks: "I work for a some-what small non-profit organization that uses a windows-based network. We currently have 6 servers supporting about 25 local domain users and about 25 remote users and we're planning on migrating from Server 2000 to Server 2003 in a month or so. Being a non-profit, we're always a little tight on cash and considering Microsoft charges ungodly amounts of money for server software, migrating portions of the network to Linux leaves more cash available for other IT goodies (like a new high-capacity file server!) and also adds more stability and security to the network. All of this depends on how well a Linux server will work on a Windows network. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding Linux integration? Can Windows and Linux be made to play well together? Is there anything out there to add limited Active Directory support to Linux?"

Comments

Wasteful

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a some-what small non-profit organization ...

You work for a non-profit organization and it's shelling out contribution money for Microsoft products? You are wasting money that has been given to you in good faith by countless people. Christ, remind me never to give money to your wasteful organization. I'll save my money for a group that doesn't turn my contributions over to an illegal monopoly.

Re:Wasteful

[dn15]

Christ, remind me never to give money to your wasteful organization. I'll save my money for a group that doesn't turn my contributions over to an illegal monopoly.

I share your sentiment, but we have to be realistic. Just because non-profits run on donations and are on a tight budget doesn't mean they know the first thing about Linux, or that it even exists. It's one thing to convert individual users, but an entire organization and all its software and data are a whole different story.

I work for an organization that provides tech support for non-profits. It's sad but true, non-profits have to live in the same world as commercial entities. They're subject to the same forces as anyone else -- they have momentum with existing Microsoft installations; there are custom legacy software that would require replacement, retaining, and conversation of data; they have users who only know Windows and (rightly or wrongly) would resist a switch to any other OS because it would mean they have to learn to use something slightly different.

You should be supporting the original poster's efforts to switch, not deriding him for not having already completed the task on every machine they have.

Re:Wasteful

[zymurgyboy]

I've been asked this same question by at least 6 of my friends who work in or manage a non-profit. They have varying levels of technical sophistication but none are experts. Most have little or no money. They all have an abiding sense of compassion for their fellow man; dedication to causes most of us would like to forget about; a knack for networking and fundraising; etc. They're not simple people.

Not all non-profits are the EFF though.

Don't be a dickhead. You know who you are, AC. Now go put your fuzzy slippers on and get back to daytrading on your Mom's WebTV. It clear you don't have the social skills required to formulate a proper response anyway.

The idea that some other undersocialized loser modded you insightful just removed any hestancy I had in going off on you. Perfect.

Do what you will mods. I could care less if I have 'Excellent' karma with a room full of asshats like this.

Re:Wasteful

[Kalak]

I toss down another gauntle that instead of whining about how they're wasing money running Windows, the AC troll above, and all Slashdot that can do 3 things.

1. Consider that this is someone who is looking into using something besides Windows, and not blindly spending money bacause "that the way it's always been done."

2. Sit there and HELP THEM DO IT! (Though above postings are doing a good job, so it may not be necessary).

and this is the most important one:

3. Go help a non-pprofit with their tech needs! They need us, and the community needs them. Time frequently means more than money, espically if they need tech help.

I have a group I'm helping locally to "fix up" their computers, and they have to run Windows in order to run some specific software required for them to obtain a grant. Think they should switch to no Microsoft? Not on your life. They get far more money from their grant than they pay to Microsoft, so it would be extremely wasteful to both their community and their donators if they were to "dump Microsoft." (Giving alternatives where appropriate, is another story entirely.) Think they can always count on being able to find a tech who can support linux? Nope. Most are volunteers who come and leave as they wish, and odds are they know Microsoft. Think they want to become part of a minority population? Turn down tech help because they run an OS that few are likely to know about? No. MS makes sense fror them, at least at the OS level, and definitely at the workstation level.

Re:Wasteful

[TykeClone]

I throw down the gauntlet to you to name a non-profit/charity type organization that is entirely on Linux.

The Free Software Foundation?

Kinda Small

[Bios_Hakr]

You have, what, 50 users? Why deal with the licensing headaches from Win* server at all? Linux (running Samba) makes a great Domain Controller. Add another Linux/Samba for SAN/NAS. Throw in one more for a print server. I don't know too much about mail on Linux, but I hear postfix is nice.

In any event, your network is *way* too small to deal with Win* crap. Even if it's *donated* by MS, there's bound to be licensing issues at some point.

Deploy Linux in your server room and then migrate your users at a later date...if at all.

What Server Based Applications are Running?

[sybarite]

If you have an application that requires Microsoft to run on the backend, then you are going to have trouble replacing said server with Samba. If it is an application that everyone uses, then even if you replace the other servers with Samba, you will still need the Microsoft CALs (client access license) to attach to the one remaning server. That is where the costs get you, not always the server software, but the CALs.

You can still make a case for migrating away from Microsoft at that point, but not based on software purchase price.

If you still need to buy software, have you seen this website? http://www.techsoup.org/ The nonprofit price for Microsoft software is very, very low.

A non-profit is the same as a for-profit

[jasonmicron]

For most of the business end of the company that is. I work for a non-profit as well and I run everything in my power on Microsoft. Why? Because it is the most compatible with what is out there.

I don't have time to sit around and learn an entire new infrastructure from such (apparently) great helpful linux zealots on /. because apparently there is no help to be had.

Windows works with the majority of the applications that are out there and if this person is purchasing through Dell as a vendor for their equipment in bulk they get a great deal of the Windows OS at cut-rate prices, including the server-end. Why would one not go for Windows? A non-profit has enough to keep up with without having to worry about a steep learning curve.

Also, the general turnaround for most non-profits as far as money goes is around 30%-40% to the donation. The rest goes to keeping the company going (employees, maintenance, bills, lease payments etc).

This person also didn't state where the donations were coming from. For all you pinheads know the money is coming from corporations who form partnerships with the non-profit. The general public might not even donate at all to this organization.

Confucius say better to remain silent than to open mouth and remove all doubt.

Re:How this even got posted?

[cerberusss]

Just tell the poster to go to Samba

He specifically asked for suggestions on integration with Active Directory. Just saying 'Samba' is not answering the question.

Re:A real answer...

[eric2hill]

I spent a full week trying to get Kerberos to work with my AD forest. I ran into one thing after another. In no particular order...

• Choose the right distro. Mandrake is really for a desktop, RedHat costs as much as Windows, so does SuSe. Gentoo? Long compile times - yuck. How about Debian? Which install can be run over NFS? Guess we'll stick with RedHat
• RedHat Enterprise Linux 3 comes with an old version of Kerberos installed that is incompatible with AD
• RedHat also puts Kerberos files in non-standard directories making them *very* difficult to locate and remove all of them, then replace them with an updated set
• To create a Kerberos ticket from the Windows side, you have to add a few DNS entries for the ktpass.exe utility to locate your AD controller, even if you're running on the same box
• Those magical DNS fixes that you put in for ktpass to work break your Mac OS X client authentication to your AD, so the next day you have 25 calls from people who can't log in to their new macs
• You can't easily test Kerberos authentication besides a principal logon
• If your kerberos authentication isn't set up properly, PAM could lock you out of your linux box forcing you to boot from a recovery CD to edit the system-auth config
• HP blades don't have a CD-ROM drive, so booting from a recovery CD isn't an option
• PXE booting an HP blade to Linux requires a couple of options set in DHCP that need to be added to the Microsoft DHCP options list manually
• Oh yea, Microsoft doesn't provide a TFTP server, so you either have to use a working linux box (isn't that how we got in this mess?) or a third-party TFTP windows server (thanks Ph. Jounin!)
• Figure out why your database server (running on your new linux box) is burning up 97% I/O wait time when your drive array is not busy
• Apply a patch to the RedHat kernel to disable some flag in some low-level scsi driver (!) and recompile to fix the I/O Wait issue

I'm not saying that linux isn't ready for the enterprise environment. It's just that my first year or so of working with it have been less than painless. Windows has it's share of problems, but for the most part it works well.