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Does Linux Have Game?

kwpulliam writes "Tom's Hardware has an interesting writeup, discussing the difficulties in bringing games to Linux, and the dilemmas faced by the graphics card developers."

18 of 729 comments (clear)

  1. Direct3D on Linux? by IO+ERROR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why can't someone port the Direct3D API to Linux? This would save a lot of hassle of porting the games to OpenGL.

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    1. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why can't someone port the Direct3D API to Linux? This would save a lot of hassle of porting the games to OpenGL.

      I don't think so. It's been almost 2 years since DirectX is available for MacOS, developed by British company Coderus. So far, no major breakthrough was achieved this way - main Macintosh game ports are done "the hard way" by companies like Aspyr Media, that's why it takes so long. Only a handful of Mac ports actually use MacDX. It's probably because when you move a game from Windows to Unix-ish environment, you still have to change so many things (Unix privileges etc.) that the 3D API is only a fraction of it.

    2. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by JonLatane · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Better yet, why don't more developers program for OpenGL? Granted, DirectX 9 has a lot of good support for pixel shaders and stuff, but OpenGL 2 can do that too. Seriously, DirectX is a completely closed-source solution and MS can do whatever they want with it, breaking games (although, to their credit, DX9 is supposed to be compatible all the way back to DX5 I think), forcing people to update their OS (which is why Windows 95/98 are dead) and, well, anything else.

      Take a look at what Apple did with OpenGL and Aqua. Perhaps they should adopt the it like they did BSD and give it a similar overhaul, providing source and giving back to the community. That way, not only Linux gaming but Mac gaming could seriously improve.

      MS is using their OS and browser monopoly to create their own standards and maintain control. They're doing it with ActiveX and their poor CSS support in IE, and they're doing it with DX9 by getting hardware designers the make their graphics cards specifically for their API. Something's got to stop them, and porting DX to Linux (which would never happen anyway) is not the solution.

    3. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by LocoMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The main difference is that someone that has a Mac computer and has only one computer can't run a windows game, so it's a lost sale... while most people that use linux and are even half interested in gaming at all at least dual boot into windows, so a linux version doesn't give extra buyers, while a mac version does. At least that's how it looks to me.. :)

    4. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by westlake · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It's odd...nobody seems to question the logic of putting out games for the mac.....but more Linux desktops were sold last year than macs, and apparently that userbase is just "way too small" for anybody to find interesting

      The Mac user base is used to paying for software. It is a definable market with a predictable return. How many of those Linux desktops you described were ready for gaming? Not the ones sold off Walmart.com, surely.

    5. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by Guspaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't port UnrealEd to the XBox or PlayStation 2 either, but both of those are supported platforms of Unreal Engine 2. Yes, the obvious reason is that they're consoles, but my point is that despite the fact that Unreal Engine 2 is cross-platform and runs on a variety of systems, its main platform is Windows. Editing tools don't need to be cross platform as much as the game itself does.

    6. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by the+Hewster · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Better yet, why don't more developers program for OpenGL? Granted, DirectX 9 has a lot of good support for pixel shaders and stuff, but OpenGL 2 can do that too.
      I have read this type of notion before. Microsoft pulled a nice PR stunt by convincing, even some "tech heads" that that DX is more advanced than OpenGL. OpenGL does not need some future version to come out to offer all the functionnality of Direct X 9. OpenGL does that already, most notably, pixel and vertex shaders in a C like language using the "GL_ARB_fragment_shader" extension and the "GL_ARB_vertex_shader" extension. Proof of this is that games that supposably showcase advanced DirectX functionnality, like Far Cry, often have a more or less hiden "OpenGL" rendering mode that implements all the eye candy effects. Direct 3D could dissapear TOMMORROW and the realtime 3D graphics community would lose NOTHING. I defy anyone to give me an example, some sample code, an effect in a game, anything that can be done with Direct 3D and not OpenGL ANYTHING!
    7. Re:Direct3D on Linux? by sloanster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      while most people that use linux and are even half interested in gaming at all at least dual boot into windows, so a linux version doesn't give extra buyers

      Nope. I'm a linux user, and an avid gamer (ut2000/2003/2004, q3a, RtCW, doom3 etc), but I don't dual boot, and don't even have a windowspeecee among my half dozen computers. I do pull out the wallet and buy linux games. So, a linux version is most definitely going to yield additional buyers, and I seriously doubt I'm the only one who runs linux 24/7...

      Why ruin my uptime just for a game? If there's no linux version of a game, I don't buy the game, end of story. There's already more native linux games available than I can ever hope to find time to play, so if having fewer titles available for linux than for ms windows is my biggest problem, life is good.

  2. Big releases by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, I hate to say it but one of the biggest titles coming to Linux was pre-empted from Linux, OS X, and even Windows in favor of the X-box. Yes, eventually it shipped for Windows and OS X, but Linux was left out in the cold when Microsoft purchased Bungie. Bungie had plans for simultaneous release of Halo on Windows and OS X to be followed soon by a Linux release. That all changed when Bungie was bought out. Honestly given the consolidation within the game industry, I don't see much hope for games on Linux for a few years yet which is sort of odd given Linux's marketshare as being so much greater than OS X. Perhaps Toms Hardware is correct when it comes to Linux being a true desktop replacement?

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    1. Re:Big releases by CrackedButter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not that I disagree, but how do you know Linux has greater marketshare than OSX?

  3. Tried & failed already. by Proz512 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From LokiGames website: Loki is closed. Thanks for your patronage. Tried & failed already.

    Why pay when Linux users use a free OS. Everybody expects their games to be free.

    What game companies should do is like linux companies make money: release the game for free but charge for tech support. Of course, when someone figures how to do the MUST-HAVE exclusively on Linux then things will change... not likely.

  4. Linux needs to penetrate by ForteMaster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is the final goal for open source. They need to become a gaming platform, both commercially and not, if they want to win the war with Microsoft.

  5. OpenGL is the Future by toonerh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Game developers should only use OpenGL for newly written rendering code. It is a high performance, advancing standard. Microsoft often "borrows" from it for Direct X (n+1).

    OpenGL makes Linux, BSD, MacOS X and other ports practical as well as not having to deal with Microsoft's arbitrary API's.

  6. Direct3D is a minority by Crass+Spektakel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, maybe Direct3D is the main GUI on windows but it is of no relevance anywhere else. Not on Linux. Not on BSD. Not on MacOS. Not on the PS2. Not even Windows-CE and therefore not on PDAs and Mobile Phones. Nowhere except Wintel.

    Therefore any sane producer should use OpenGL which makes it very easy to bring a product to any console, any computer and after some years to PDAs and Mobile Phones.

    Today a productive sellcycle for a game should be:

    1. sell on consoles - they have less problems with piracy and people are more willing to pay (overpriced) prices.

    2. after the first hot sellcycle - three to twelve months - port the game to Desktop-Computers. There are million people which do not want a console but still want to play a game. Also those games are a bit cheaper which gets you more customers. Your game gets pirated though but as sales for (1.) already are over you simply live with it.

    3. Meanwhile port it to Unix-Desktops or in other words, MacOS and Linux. It is a piece of cake, given you planes porting through all cycles means you gave some thoughts right at the start about portability and this pay off now. 10-20% additional sales for maybe 10 working days.

    4. After several years portable gameconsoles, PDAs and Cell-Phones are becoming a target - your game outsold on the desktop and consoles, people knew your game and have good memory. People actually are willing to pay for Mario/PDA after having played Mario/Console. So now you recompile your game to those portable plattforms, sell it for a real low-budget-price and most likely you are outselling all earlier sales.

    All portings only take some days of work, yes this can be done with some planing.

    This cycle and no other will give maximum earnings. And it simply forbids use of Direct3D.

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  7. Re:ATI video drivers by Trelane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Amen to that. ATI, give us a usable binary driver, or give the community the specs!

    At this time, my recommendation to those who want 3d gaming is either:

    • Get an old ATI card (if you care about Free drivers, this is the way to go; ATI gives great support to developers for their old cards)
    • Get an NVidia. While you will be completely dependent upon nvidia to provide drivers for the lifetime of your card, you get seriously butt-kicking graphics now, not several years down the road when ATI would have finally told developers the specifications.
    • Buy an off-brand (e.g. Intel) chip; some have great in-kernel support due to their vendors supporting Linux well. Only problem is that they have inferior speed compared to current nvidia or ati offerings. Though I'm not sure how they compare to ATI's old cards; this may be a wash.

    I got bit hard by that when I got my laptop; I dropped the money for an ATI card, thinking the only problem was that they were a bit slower than the nvidia drivers. After kernel horkage and lockups and filesystem damage due to this driver, I've sworn off ati unless it's an old, well-supported card. I shoulda just given my money to NVidia instead. From what I've been reading, ATI is very ambivalent about making good Linux drivers, whereas NVidia seems to be bending over backwards to give us great support.

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  8. Open Graphics Project to the rescue by Theovon · · Score: 3, Interesting
    THG kinda left out a something that's of particular interest to me which is the open graphics project. A graphics card producer is working with the open source community to develop a 3D graphics card to have open specs and therefore fully open source drivers.

    Check out the mailing list.

  9. Nvidia does like Linux by Omniscientist · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I am very pleased at NVIDIA myself. As much as I would love for NVIDIA to open source their drivers, I am just grateful that this corporation is actually spitting out working drivers for their motherboard chipsets and graphics cards. I would much much rather have closed source nvidia drivers then even deal with ATi in Linux.

    NVIDIA does have alot of third party extensions and other third party IP in their code...so if they open sourced that it would piss off alot of other companies.

    Needless to say, I hope one day they can provide a nice driver that doesn't taint the kernel, however I am grateful that they are actually giving us something that is fully functional in Linux (x86, AMD-64) and FreeBSD.

  10. Re:Linux does not have game. by be-fan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's because XP problems are often totally random. See, one of the fundemental issues with XP is it thinks its smarter than you. That means, that under certain conditions, it does some totally weird things. For example, I recently tried to figure out why one of my XP machines suddenly became unable to connect to our wireless network. It'd go into a continuous cycle of getting and losing the connection once every few seconds.

    Long story short, it turns out this "bug" was actually a feature. You see, if Windows XP is connected to a network that isn't broadcasting its SSID, and it sees one that is, it'll try to disconnect and join the other one. This happens even if the non-broadcasting connection is the only one in your "preferred networks" list. What had happened, of course, is that our neighbor had just got a wireless network, and forgot to turn of SSID broadcasting like you're supposed to. This particular machine was the only one within range, and as a result, freaked out.

    Come to think of it, this is probably the same problem that plagued another one of my XP machines. I spent months trying to figure out why it'd randomly drop its connection, and finally gave up, assumed it was a hardware problem, and replaced the PCI wifi adapter with a small USB keychain one. Since it worked, I assumed that the USB dongle got better reception. Now I realize that the problem was just the opposite --- since the USB dongle got *worse* reception, it was out of range of a competing network.

    I have lost tens of hours to this single damn bug, as well as $60 bucks buying new hardware I didn't need. All because some idiot programmer at Microsoft thought he could make a piece of software smarter than me. Whoever wrote the "Wireless Network ZeroConfiguration" for XP deserves a special place in hell!

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