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Wired Interviews Bram Cohen, Creator of BitTorrent

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the bit-o'-honey dept.

ZP-Blight writes "Wired has posted an in-depth five page interview with Bram Cohen, the creator of the popular Peer-2-Peer software, BitTorrent."

32 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. HUGE!! by Moustache+N+Tits · · Score: 5, Funny

    a 5!!! page article?! I sure hope they figure out a good way of distributing all that bandwidth to a large amount of people with minimum slowdown!

    --
    Grease & Counterbalance
  2. WJR 760 by Puls4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A local radio station WJR 760 in Detroit interviewed him earlier this week. It was apparent that he needed to hire someone with a little better speaking skills - especially when he knows he'll be ambushed at nearly every opportunity.

    I couldn't believe my ears when the talk show host asked him: "Does it bother you that people use your product for negative purposes, sort of like the scientists who developed the formulas used in the atomic bombs that killed hundreds of thousands?"

    My jaw hit the floor when his reply was "Well, this isn't exactly an atom bomb...." That's why the lawyers are winning right now. It's not because they're smarter. It's because they are SO good at twisting things around, and us geeks can't speak in public worth a damn.

    He also wouldn't admit that bit-torrent is a revolutionary way of transfering data, he kept downplaying his program. Come on man! You're not a programmer right now. You're a salesman and a human resource department. Act like it!

    1. Re:WJR 760 by kmak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if he "brags" about Bittorrent, the Slashdot crowd will call him arrogant...

      I agree with you with being more articulate though. I think the standard answer should be to deflect responsibility, just like a politican!

      Probably something along the lines of:
      "It is the responsibility of the individual to decide what he/she wants to do with it. I'm only responsible for discovering new things."

      Or maybe even a bit extreme:
      "Someone can stab someone else to death with a pen. Does that mean pens should've never been invented?" (Or insert something equally trivial..)

      Merit alone, sadly, isn't enough anymore..

      --

      I'm not the devil.. just his advocate.
    2. Re:WJR 760 by bwindle2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe his autism has something to do with that? "Cohen in fact has Asperger's syndrome, a condition on the mild end of the autism spectrum that gives him almost superhuman powers of concentration but can make it difficult for him to relate to other people"

    3. Re:WJR 760 by RailGunner · · Score: 4, Interesting
      His software is used primarily for illegal deeds.

      So that fact that a bunch of linux distro's being released as .torrent links means nothing, eh? Just because some people are using BitTorrent to violate copyrights does not mean it has no legitimate use. I can get a shiny new (legal) .iso image in far less time over torrent then I can over an http download, in almost every case.

      BitTorrent is a tool. Nothing more. It is the person who misuses it, not the tool, that's the problem.

      Griping about the RIAA / MPAA would have been completely innappropriate. Besides - if you don't like the RIAA / MPAA, quit sending them your money. You don't *have* to see movies you know... after all, as amazing as the LOTR movies are, I enjoyed the books even more. You also don't have to buy CD's - support your favorite artists by seeing them in concert. But when asked about a legitimate software tool like torrent, discussing the RIAA / MPAA would have been a tangent and seen as a dodge.

    4. Re:WJR 760 by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nope, that's not it. The proper response is something like:

      (Cohen) What can I do? Even now, there are evil bittorrent people who have used my software to burn villages to the ground, teach schoolchildren to write with their left hands, sodomize livestock and advocate american usage of the metric system! It makes my skin crawl to hear how it ressurrected Jeffrey Dahmer and caused him to go on a zombie rampage, eviscerating screaming women and devouring innocent children! Stop zombie Dahmer, think of the children! What will we do when the terrorists twist my innocent application into a weapon of mass destruction, simply because Congress couldn't stop the partisan bickering long enough? Bittorrent doesn't even prevent AIDS, let alone cure it!

      (Radio host) But, you say this can be used by terrorists, and you still created it? What?

      (Cohen) What, does that sound a little ridiculous to you?

      (Radio Host) I dunno, can it be used...
      (Cohen, interrupting) Because it sounds more than a little ridiculous for you to compare Bittorent to nuclear weapons. C'mon, tell us straight. The RIAA didn't put you up to this, but you've been one of their lapdogs so long, they don't have to explicitly tell you to do this sort of character assassination.

      (Radio Host) Now wait a minute...
      (Cohen) No, you wait a minute. Bittorrent doesn't do anything the internet itself doesn't do. Except that if ever the RIAA was so insane to suggest the internet be made illegal, even the most bought senator would laugh. Bittorrent is just a networking protocol, something your mouth-breathing bosses couldn't describe in layman's terms if their lives depended on it. A protocol that makes the internet slightly more efficient, and not much more. It's clever, I like it, and so do quite a few other people. What do you say to that? (stomps out of the booth).

    5. Re:WJR 760 by RailGunner · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Exactly, so addressing the reason that people misuse a creation of his is a perfectly good way of answering a loaded question like that.

      I disagree, I think that would be out of scope. I think it would have been far more effective to list the legal uses and focus on the positive. It's possible to violate copyright with a lot of different items - cameras, CD Burners, pencil and paper, a photocopier, a scanner, etc. But - that's not exactly "newsworthy", is it?

      Also, is there any way to list metrics of exactly what people are downloading via BitTorrent? If there isn't, it's only an opinion that BitTorrent is used primarily for copyright violations. I could argue that the legal uses are numerous, and I can think of a number of sites like this one that have numerous, legal Torrent links, and looking at the traffic stats, Distrowatch gets a lot of hits.

    6. Re:WJR 760 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      He should only answer a question if he gets to ask the interviewer a question too.

      If the interviewer doesn't respond Bram should just start talking slower and slower and then finally disconnect.

      Maybe that's what happened.

    7. Re:WJR 760 by grm_wnr · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think we should just end piracy once and for all by outlawing Microsoft's TCP/IP stack, since it has been proven that it is used in over 90% of all cases of internet piracy.

    8. Re:WJR 760 by Per+Wigren · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know the rate of AS among geeks, but I do know that neuropsychological conditions (I like to call it "differently abled" rather than "disabled") are overrepresentated among geeks and the more extreme subcultures. I myself has ADD and I know a lot of ADD/ADHD persons who are geeks AND goth/industrial/punk..

      AS people (AS=Asperger's Syndrome) tend to be superhuman geniouses in a few narrow areas while ADD/ADHD people tend to be theoretical almost-geniously experts in a wide range of subjects.

      Our (me and my fellow ADDers) problem is that we are so easily bored and when we see the finish closing in we already finished the project in our head (the only thing left is to actually implement it) and the mental energy runs out and we have to move on to something else so we don't get a deep depression. Repetitive work (such as implementing on the computer the stuff you already implemented in your head) causes depressions..

      The reason ADDers are overrepresentated among subcultures are that our way of thinking and making conclusions differ quite a lot from non-ADDers. For example we skip the little details called norms, principles, culture, traditions, etc and go straight to the root matter of the current subject. That's why a lot of us don't feel that we fit in and search alternative lifestyles that fit our minds better...

      People with ADD and AS can be the biggest resource for a company that they can possibly get. You just have to rethink and adjust the internal politics a little. A single interested ADDer can do 10 persons work in short time. You just have to make sure that someone else take over when it gets repetitive and move the ADDer to another project that he/she shows interested in. And put the byrocrazy to a minimum, nothing can kill motivation more...

      Oh, did I mention that we tend to make long LISP-like rants with deeply nested paranthesis? :) Have patience, we'll soon get back ontopic as we usually have a good stackmemory. :)

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  3. Cohen didn't invent multi-source downloading by Sanity · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article seems to imply that Cohen invented multi-source downloading, for example:
    Cohen realized that chopping up a file and handing out the pieces to several uploaders would really speed things up. He sketched out a protocol: To download that copy of Meet the Fokkers, a user's computer sniffs around for others online who have pieces of the movie. Then it downloads a chunk from several of them simultaneously. Many hands make light work, so the file arrives dozens of times faster than normal.
    Yet this feature has existed in other P2P applications for years.

    Personally I think BitTorrent's core advantage over other file sharing technologies is also its core architectural weakness, namely its centralised nature. This allows an editorial filter on content made available through BitTorrent, yet also makes a juicy legal target. Until recently BitTorrent's obscurity has protected it, but clearly this is no-longer the case.

    (Disclaimer: I am working on some free software that is competitive with BitTorrent)

    1. Re:Cohen didn't invent multi-source downloading by PhilHibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Simple. Don't break the law, and you won't become a "juicy legal target". There's nothing illegal about BitTorrent, but it is illegal to violate copyright with it, so don't do that.

  4. mirrored here: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny


    Wired is getting slow.

    Wired :Why did you write BitTorrent?
    Cohen :To get LEET WAREz!
    Wired :Before you've said for fast distribution of legal files.
    Cohen :Yeah, that and LEET JU$R3ZZZZZ!!!!
    Wired :Legal and 'warez'?
    Cohen :and MP3!!!11111 Fux0r the *AA, GET IT FREE!
    Wired :Thank you Mr. Cohen.
    Cohen :Would you like fries with that?

  5. Not a 5 page article by chris_mahan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not a 5 page article. An article on the web does not have pages, since the web does not have pages (you scroll down), What we do have is an article split in 5 sections to allow for more ads, more branding, more clicks.

    Wired Marketing droid to potential advertisers: We got 5 million clicks yesterday--grumble under breath: one million people clicked 5 times-- and displayed 25 million ads --grumble under breath: 5 ads per click, times 5 sections.

    --

    "Piter, too, is dead."

    1. Re:Not a 5 page article by deglr6328 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's calld a "printer friendly version".

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  6. Link by Fr05t · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is at the top of the story:
    "Movie studios hate it. File-swappers love it. Bram Cohen's blazing-fast P2P software has turned the Internet into a universal TiVo. For free video-on-demand, just click here."

    Unfortunately someone forgot to add the link :P

  7. Azureus client is the best by tedgyz · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you have not tried Azureus, you have not felt the full power of bittorrent.

    --
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
  8. Bram is cool by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's smart, he's understated, he keeps doing new logical puzzlement stuff, and he's made a simple application spread worldwide without marketing through word of mouth, and simply because it does what it's meant to well. That's true innovation.

    But I have to say, Sailor Moon Bram really freaks me.

    1. Re:Bram is cool by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      BitTorrent is a good application, I'll give you that. But it really is just a first-generation application, and should be seen as such. Packet-bartering should be changed to favor those who seed, and if at all possible, priority should be given to giving packets to those who only need a few more to finish their download (since connections slow near the end).

      It's great, but it needs improvement.

      BTW, how long do you think it will be before bittorrent-style downloads become standard in web browsers and web servers? :) I mean, heck, how hard could it be to write such a browser plugin and server plugin? The server plugin would simply need to create torrent files for each actual file that you're wanting to serve as a torrent (and upload those instead), whole the browser plugin would need to first download the torrent and then show the bittorrent download progress (leaving the window open past the end of the download without an option to autoclose, just like regular bittorrent clients)

      It seems that such a feature would make it a lot easier to run a file server on limited bandwidth.

      Also, while I like the concept of the file finding mechanism not being part of the file exchange mechanism itself, as in BitTorrent, we really need a decentralized way to locate and moderate files - some sort of distributed web of trust, perhaps. Of course, those sorts of things are always a pain to try to catch hacked clients, so I'm not surprised that we haven't seen any good ones.

      Oh, and last on my distant-future wishlist: A financial-incentive packet bartering priority boost. I.e., anyone can download, but if you contribute money to the authors of the content you're downloading (this would require a centralized server, no way around it), you get a faster download rate. The more you contribute, the faster your downloads go; your donation distribution could be handled automatically.

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    2. Re:Bram is cool by MuValas · · Score: 4, Funny

      He's "understated"?

      "'I'm very, very good at writing protocols. I've accomplished more working on my own than I ever did as part of a team.' While we're having lunch, his wife, Jenna, tells me about the time they were watching Amadeus, where Mozart writes his music so rapidly and perfectly it appears to have been dictated by God. Cohen decided he was kind of like that. Like Mozart? Bram and Jenna nod."

  9. 10 Years?! by colonslashslash · · Score: 4, Funny
    Quoth the article:

    "In our research with consumers, content-on-demand is the killer app. They like the idea of paying only for what they watch." The trick, he figures, is to work out a solution before the audience for illegal downloading becomes truly huge. He figures the networks have 10 years.

    Sounds like a very liberal estimate. I'd say that illegal downloading has already become pretty "huge". If it wasn't, what are the MPAA/RIAA getting so worked up about, and why are all these TV executives commenting on it in the first place?

    Later in the article they discuss the takedown notice Dreamworks sent to ThePirateBay.org concerning Shrek 2, for those of you who havn't already, and are interested to read the letter (and the hilarious response), check it out here:

    Dreamworks Takedown Notice & Response

    --
    She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
  10. Why isn't BitTorrent defeatable? by saddino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's something that I've been wondering:

    I haven't looked at the source, but given the broad description of the protocol I'm assuming each "chunk" has a GUID along with the payload. Obviously, this allows for swarming and reduced download/upload bottlenecks, but doesn't it also allow for easy corruption of the data stream?

    For example, when the RIAA tried to defeat Napster by brute force, namely setting up drone/honeypot PCs with libraries of corrupted files, the method failed miserably. I would guess that by its nature, knowing what IP you were downloading an entire file from, it wouldn't be too hard to filter out known RIAA servers.

    But, with BitTorrent handling the gathering of chunks from the swarm from multiple IPs, doesn't that greatly increase the likelihood of success for a similar attack?

    For example, shouldn't the MPAA be able to download the source code and modify encoding so that if (Random() % 1000) a chunk flips some of the bits in the payload? Wouldn't installing this code on a farm of drones eventually "corrupt" the datastreams on BitTorrent?

    Or are their safeguards in place for this kind of attack?

    1. Re:Why isn't BitTorrent defeatable? by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Or are their safeguards in place for this kind of attack?

      Yup - each 'GUID' for a Bittorrent block is an SHA1 cryptographic hash. If you find a way of generating collisions for those, many computer scientists and mathematicians would love to know. ;-)

      From the FAQ:
      BitTorrent does cryptographic hashing (SHA1) of all data. When you see "Download succeeded!" you can be sure that BitTorrent has already verified the integrity of the data. The integrity and authenticity of a BitTorrent download is as good as the original request to the tracker. Checking the MD5/CRC32/other hash of a file downloaded via BitTorrent is redundant.

      I gather that if a client was pumping out corrupt blocks, or if they were corrupted at some point during transmission, they'd simply get dropped and re-requested. No idea if there's anything to permanently ignore a client that's pumping out nothing but junk, though - but on a busy tracker, it would get drowned out by all the others. Anyone know?

      Incidentally, is anyone else worried by the way the article concentrated on the distribution of television shows, almost to the exclusion of everything else? I've used Bittorrent quite a bit, but only ever for completely legal purposes - plus, I've always thought of it being a rubbish way of distributing dubious stuff, what with IP addresses of everyone downloading available straight from the tracker to whoever might be investigating...
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
  11. bittorrent weakness by helix_r · · Score: 4, Insightful


    I like bittorrent, but my problem is that I can't easily search for what I want in torrent form.

    Please, I hope I am wrong, but it seems that one is forced to go to "seedy" (I mean, really seedy, as in icky) websites to get the links.

    1. Re:bittorrent weakness by 314m678 · · Score: 5, Informative

      go to www.google.com type in FileIwant filetype:torrent Press search.

  12. Re:Article describes eDonkey2000 by Java+Pimp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Given that quoted paragraph and the following, it is apparent that even after interviewing the creator, the author has absolutely no idea what bit torrent is for or how it works.

    He [Cohen] sketched out a protocol: To download that copy of Meet the Fokkers...

    Yeah, I'm sure that's what he was thinking when he created the protocol...

    a user's computer sniffs around for others online who have pieces of the movie

    No, trackers keep track of who is downloading or seeding the file, there is no sniffing around. Infact, there is no search capability that I am aware of...

    The more files you're willing to share, the faster any individual torrent downloads

    Are you kidding me? No... the more people downloading/seeding an individual torrent, the faster it downloads. More files have nothing to do with anything.

    --
    Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
    Kull: She told me she was 19!
  13. A related cause by ShatteredDream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The big media would love to take him down personally for creating bit torrent, and the only thing stopping them is that Bit Torrent is just legitimate enough to be a hard case to sell. Enough users use it legally, that they couldn't argue it's primarily for piracy. But what if that were to change?

    Bit Torrent is just a tool, it cannot do anything illegal by itself. The user must choose to do something illegal with it. Going after Cohen is no different than going after a gun maker for gun crime. The exact same arguments used against gun makers could be used against Cohen. He's not screening his users, is he? Neither are the gun makers. In both cases, some of their users are committing crimes. Different types of crimes, but either way, a legitimate tool is used for an illegitimate purpose.

    In the long run, the only way to win against the forces opposed to individual liberties is to link our causes. This is the IP equivalent of what the NRA faces with guns, so it only makes sense for both camps to realize we are fighting the same ideology just in two different manifestations.

    Allies, even allies that don't really understand your cause as well as you do, are important. Many of the gun owners' postings I have read on right wing boards frequently have derisive attitudes toward the **AA now and see them as the computer equivalent of "gun grabbers." It's a fitting analogy because the **AA want to be the "computer grabbers." Mandatory DRM is akin to mandatory trigger locks because either way, some bureaucrat is telling you how you must maintain and use your property.

    To protect our rights we must continue to assert individual responsibility as the solution and push for solutions that go after perpetrators of crime, not their tools. That is the only way we can not only cut down on crime, but also protect people like Cohen from amoral, mercenary attorneys like those behind the **AA

    --
    Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
  14. Article Text (Bittorrent style) by OECD · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here's the article text, Bittorent style: ...von Lohmann, a lawyer at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, because Linux...

    C'mon, start serving you leeches! That's all I got!

    --
    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  15. MPAA plans cohens retirement by AmericaHater · · Score: 5, Funny
    Cohen has even started sketching out ideas for his own puzzles. He dreams of making enough money to buy a 3-D prototyping machine and retire."

    (MPAA exec on intercom to his secretary): "mrs Jones find me a 3D prototype manufacturer".

    [delay]

    (secretary):"I found four of them, but Jesus, they're $5million each!!!"
    (exec): "buy four and ship them to that fucker Cohen by the end of the day - and my names not Jesus it's God"

  16. High School Memories by echocharlie · · Score: 5, Informative

    I went to High School with Bram Cohen. He was brilliant back then too. The article paints a pretty good picture of what I remember of him. We went to Stuyvesant, a specialized HS in NYC with a standardized test to get in. Basically, it's a school for uber-nerds.

    Found a picture of the Math team back in 1993. Bram's the guy with the bushy hair in the back row near the center next to the tall asian guy and another guy with a hat. He was the co-captain of the team that year, if I remember correctly. I think he ended up in the State University of New York at Buffalo. That always bothered me for some reason. He definitely was smart enough to make it into a better school. Why did he choose to go to Buffalo?

    --
    AnimeNEXT anime convention
  17. Quote of the Millenium (so far) by jpellino · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...The only shows he watches are those he buys on DVD. He particularly loved the first season of Paris Hilton's The Simple Life. "You can watch that show for six hours," Cohen says, "and your brain is still empty."

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  18. Netflix/Blockbuster? by CdBee · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Recently the above companies announced intentions to distribute movies online over DSL set-top boxes

    I wonder if each STB will have BitTorrent on it and DRM files will be shared out as they are requested by customers - the only download the consumer would have to make from the distributors central server would be the DRM authorisation key?

    This could be the key to legal movie download services

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU