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Are Nanotube Monitors In Your Future?

cmburns69 writes "There is an article over on CNET News about some new nanotube technology which could replace LCD flat panel displays. "These 'field effect displays,' or FEDs, will consume less energy than plasma or liquid crystal display (LCD) TVs, deliver a better picture and even cost less.". The article is mostly focused on the FED technology, but also includes a summary of what other new display technology is coming up such as SEDs and slim CRTs. "

36 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. Define cost less by superpulpsicle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If it's not in the sub $250 range, most people won't buy it. And just because they say it is cheaper, doesn't mean it'll be affordable until 5 years after it hits the market.

    1. Re:Define cost less by stupidfoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is the same nonsense that's posted about every new technology out there. How many times have we read about a new display technology that's going to be better/faster/higher quality/cheaper/stronger/smarter/prettier/jumps higher/etc than LCDs and Plasma.

      Every single one of them. And in reality that's all just a bunch of marketing BS. Maybe it might be true when they massaged their 20 year sales projection numbers the right way, or if they stretch the truth on performance to the very edge.

      Unfortunately, Slashdot, like every other site, gets sucked into the better/faster/cheaper nonsense everytime it comes up.

    2. Re:Define cost less by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If it's not in the sub $250 range, most people won't buy it

      These days, most people seem to be buying televisions with screens larger than 35". And they cost a bit more than $250.

      If you build it, somebody with a small penis will buy it.

    3. Re:Define cost less by ZeroGee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So are you saying that LCDs and Plasma TVs are the end-all for TV development? These new devices are betterfastercheaper, but that doesn't mean today! It means that after the initial development period, this technology will replace the older version. It's an evolution of technology.

    4. Re:Define cost less by David+Gould · · Score: 3, Insightful


      just that all we ever hear about are all these amazing magical technologies that will blow the existing techs away.

      You mean like plasma screens? You know, it wasn't that many years ago that we were discussing, right here on Slahsdot[*1], an article that sounded just like this one, but was introducing a hot new display technology called <fingerquote style="Dr. Evil">"plasma"</fingerquote> that was going to enable flat displays to be made bigger/better/cheaper than was possible with LCDs.

      Then too, the article was overly enthusiastic; then too, some of us got prematurely excited about it; then too, others soberly advised waiting for actual products, etc. In short, it was exactly the same as this. And yet, the technology really did arrive eventually.

      You're right that it's stupid to get all excited about an R&D concept demo (or even an actual prototype) as if it were an actual product (and by the way, it's called vaporware, not FUD -- similar concepts but an important distinction). But it would be just as dumb to completely scoff off all new-tech press releases. We should take an article like this for what it is, no more, no less: a preview of one of the (several, competing) possibilities for what might become the next generation of display technology.

      We know there's going to be a next generation, and between SED, FED, OLED, Thin-CRT, and WIMF, there's an exciting amount of potential for displays to get dramatically bigger, better, and cheaper sometime in the not-too-distant future. I for one am content to leave it at that, and interested to keep an eye on developments on all those avenues.

      --
      [1] At least, some of us, who were around back then. I think I'm supposed to make a comment about /. UIDs at this point, but I can't stand those people who get all cocky about their "old-timer" status.

      --
      David Gould
      main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
  2. Newsflash! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    There is a new technology that researches believe is promising as a potential replacement for existing technology!

  3. Obligatory by ScruffyScrode · · Score: 2, Funny

    Uh oh... here come the FEDs!

    1. Re:Obligatory by MarkGriz · · Score: 2, Funny

      Uh oh... here come the FEDs!

      It's their new plan to monitor and prosecute copyright violations.

      "This is the FED9000. Cancel that illegal music download and step away from the computer"

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  4. Same Line by teiresias · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "These , will consume less energy than plasma or liquid crystal display (LCD) TVs, deliver a better picture and even cost less.".

    This seems to be the spin for any new display technology that's being hawked, regardless of development, deployment or truth.

    --
    -Teiresias
  5. for the lazy: the ghosting question by dAzED1 · · Score: 3, Informative
    From the article, the answer to what these look like from the side: The images produced by CRT tubes are crisper and aren't subject to the shifting and ghosting of LCD screens. However, the electron gun in CRTs requires a large vacuum: the tube in a 30-inch diagonal television is 23-inches deep, though slim CRTs coming next year will only need 16-inch deep tubes.



    Like an LCD, an FED is made up of layers. A layer of glass is coated with a cathode and a layer of diamond dust coated with lithium or carbon nanotubes. The negatively charged cathode, organized in a grid, then emits electrons through the diamonds or nanotubes, which focus that energy like a tiny lightening rod.



    But then, like a CRT, the electrons shoot through a vacuum at a layer of phosphorescent glass covered with pixels. The big difference is that the source of electrons, the carbon, is located only 1 millimeter to 2 millimeters rather than nearly 2 feet from the target glass, and instead of one electron source--the electron gun--there are thousands. The electrons are attracted to the pixilated glass because this layer contains a positively charged anode.



    "This generates light the same way a CRT tube does," said Pitstick, leading to similar picture quality. At the same time, a FED is only slightly thicker than an LCD panel.

    1. Re:for the lazy: the ghosting question by The_Wilschon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the FED is in some sense just ~a million tiny single-pixel CRTs? Interesting!

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    2. Re:for the lazy: the ghosting question by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ghosting is like a blur caused by the pixels refreshing slowly, and is especially problematic in any FPS, racer, faster flight simulators, and games with a fair amount of contrast; ie. space sims, that poor weakening genre that I love =(

      It does have an effect on television, but certainly to a lesser degree because of the limited motion onscreen (unless of course it is a cheap LCD). The LCDs, or at least the expensive ones, are progressing to a point where many people don't notice the ghosting. I certainly do though, and can't really stand gaming on LCD monitors.

  6. Re:Drugged up Diamands by Twanfox · · Score: 2, Informative
    No, what they refer to is infusing/treating pure diamond dust with a particular element/chemical.

    See: Dictionary.Com's definition of Doped, entry 4 (Electronics)

    Still is pretty funny, though.

  7. Re:Drugged up Diamands by slackerboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    is developing a similar panel that relies on specially doped diamond dust.

    Do you suppose the author meant dropped? Otherwise, I hope that dust has glaucoma!


    I suspect the author really meant "doped", as in adding an artificial impurity to create a semiconductor. (It might sell well either way, however...)

    --
    Things to do today: See list of things to do yesterday
  8. Re: Sweet by BobPaul · · Score: 2, Funny

    You mean we can sell those things??

    Honey!

  9. Early adopters by bennomatic · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Cost really won't be an issue at first. Not only does the manufacturer need to recoup R&D quickly, but also, they don't necessarily WANT to go mass market immediately with such new technology.

    The early adopter market is great for high tech because they:

    • don't mind paying a premium for cool stuff, and they
    • don't expect things to run perfectly.
    You can imagine that if some company creating these things were to decide to just jump right to mass market, they would have huge problems with the volumes of customer support calls, returns, and so on. The people who bought the first plasma screens probably don't really care that they (the screens) look like crap by now from burn-in. They have probably replaced them AT LEAST once.

    If you sell a million units to a million Joe Sixpacks, even if they didn't sell a kidney to get the product, that sort of potential problem would result in lawsuits a million times greater than the potential profits.

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  10. Hooray for new TV technologies by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All of which promise cheaper, higher definition pictures, using less energy, and do 0-500 mph in a quarter second.

    Whatever. Go to fucking circuit city and notice that anything other than a "plain ole tv set" costs an order of magnitude more, and doesn't even boast a better image.

    LCoS SED Plasma OLED LCD DLP SHOMORK

    So lets take the buzzword of the day and rebadge it as "TV tech of teh futore".

    Nanotubes.

    WiFi Nanotubes, with iTunes.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  11. Just like plasmas... by gUmbi · · Score: 3, Funny

    yet another new reason for Americans to take out a home equity loan.

  12. Are nanotube monitors in my future by Smallpond · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes. Right after stem cells cure all diseases, and Longhorn fixes all security holes in my PC.

  13. But Do they Beat OLEDS? by ghutchis · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article is interesting and IMHO, new display technologies will always find their niche. But I've always thought the "next-gen" technology to beat LCD flat-screen or plasma displays was going to be OLEDs.

    On the one hand, OLEDs still have some problems with lifetimes--even research devices that I saw in grad school might degrade quickly. And of course I haven't seen anyone really give proof that single-walled nanotubes (SWNT) used in these FEDs can be produced cost-effectively.

    However, unlike these technologies, OLEDs have already been produced as prototypes in sizes as large as 40" (by Seiko Epson) and being used in products like Digital Cameras and MP3/Ogg players and being mass-produced by companies like Sony.

    Previous Slashdot stories on OLEDs:
    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/15/201723 7
    http://slashdot.org/articles/03/03/04/0127213.shtm l?tid=137
    http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/03/09/01122 34.shtml
    http://slashdot.org/articles/04/05/05/004227.shtml ?tid=137&tid=141&tid=159&tid=184&tid=186&tid=188

    1. Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? by Elledan · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem with OLED is that it's a technology which is basically being developed from scratch. Variants on OLED are even being developed, to circumvent (among other things) the longevity issues with especially the blue component of OLED (10,000 to 20,000 hours so far).

      The thing is that SED and FED are pretty much evolved versions of the venerable CRT: they've got 'electron guns', a vacuum, and a layer build up out of phosphors. Only big differences are the number of electron guns (tens of thousands instead of three) and the distance between the electron guns and the phosphor layer (millimeters instead of tens of centimeters).

      SED in particular stands a good chance, as it uses existing manufacturing techniques for the electron gun-layer and further basically replicates a CRT. FED tries to do things a bit fancier, which requires more R&D, and thus more time to bring it to the market.

      So in summary, OLED and FED are still (partially) in a research stadium, while SED is ready to be marketed: the first SED displays (TVs) will apppear in 2005, with computer displays appearing in 2006. That's according to Toshiba's PR-department, at least :p

      Link to general information on SED: SED

      --
      Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
    2. Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? by Elledan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I quote from this page:

      "Current large screen OLED devices consume far more power than LCDs [..]"

      So it appears that OLED seems to have a problem with power efficiency in addition to the longevity of its pixels. Definitely not a good sign. The article I quoted from also specifies 2008 as the date when OLED might enter mass-production. Still a long way off, in other words.

      As for SED, take a look at this article: Toshiba's SED TV at CES. First (big) TVs released this year, with production ramping up next year.

      Also, I disagree with what you say about OLED being superior to SED and FED because it doesn't have the dead-pixel problem. SEDs and FEDs can have multiple electron emitters per pixel, and phosphors have a tendency to last a very long time (just look at CRTs)

      So SED is available this very year, uses less power than comparable displays (one-third of a plasma display) and won't wear out within 5 years. FED might be released in a few months or years and will exhibit pretty much the same benefits as SED. OLED will be released in 2008. If we're lucky.

      --
      Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
  14. Cost of carbon nanotubes problematic by teneighty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I RTFA, and those FED monitors sound pretty nice. The only problem is they require diamonds or carbon nanotubes to manufacture. Last I heard, carbon nanotubes are quite expensive to manufacture in any quantity (wikipedia seems to confirm this). I'm not sure about the cost of the small syntehtic diamond that FEDs require, but I imagine they aren't cheap to make either (does anyone know?).

    Hopefully a breakthrough will come along and make these things cheap to manufacture though, because FEDs sound like very cool technology.

    1. Re:Cost of carbon nanotubes problematic by Slime-dogg · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm not sure about the cost of the small syntehtic diamond that FEDs require, but I imagine they aren't cheap to make either (does anyone know?).

      Wired has a love fest with synthetic diamonds

      I recall a /. article from a year or two ago that spoke of a small company in the Massachusette's area that produced flawless white diamonds. They used some technique of using a diamond point of action, and layering carbon onto it, like a chip fab does. It seemed like they could produce fairly large quantities at minimal cost. I'm not sure if they have been shot by deBeers yet, tho.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
  15. Femtotube displays! by VirtualUK · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yup...they're thinner than the hair of a unicorn, have negative weight due to their anti-gravity properties, they actually generate money instead of cost money and because they can be produced on such a massive scale the UN is contemplating replacing the sky with a Large Array Unified Graphics Heaven ;)

  16. re: cost problematic by demon411 · · Score: 2, Funny

    once the carbon nanotube based space elevator falls, we can all make tvs out of pieces of it yay

  17. aw shit by neilyos · · Score: 2, Funny

    and I just bought a brand new Dell UltraSharp 2001FP 20 inch LCD monitor about 20 minutes ago... http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?sku=320-1578&c=us&l=en&cs=19&category_id=2999& page=external

  18. Not really new but great to hear about by fbonnet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First time I've heard of this technology it was 15 years ago. This has been originally developped at the LETI (a french research institute). PixTech (also french) seems to be an emanation from this lab.

    FED displays are based on the so-called 'tip effect' (not sure about the english term, in french it's 'effet de pointe'). This electromagnetic effect is what makes lightning rods work. To simplify, each pixel is thus basically filled with micro-lightning rods that throw particles towards the phosphore.

  19. Bad choice of acronyms by awtbfb · · Score: 4, Informative

    FED has already been used for flat panel screens. Specifically: field emission displays. Worth noting is that these, while very neat, turned out to be fiscally problematic (hence the need for the Wayback Machine). Not a good omen for this incarnation...

  20. For the love of pete! by TheAwfulTruth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Stop with the nano-tube announcements!

    We've been hearing for years about how nano-tubes are going to save mankind, make everything 100 times faster, 100x more energy efficient and taste 100% better.

    So far not one commercial product has been produced that actually uses them for anything other than marketing hype. It's getting beyond tired.

    "Nano-tube" is the call of the entrepreneur trying to get funding. All it takes is writing a paper or press release with the word "nano-tube" in it and people all jump to attention and thorw money. This is the 50th time we've heard it.

    Keep researching but stop with the "This could be the greatest thing ever, why in two years blah blah blah" annoucements already. Just tell us when it's done and for sale.

    --
    Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
  21. Re:In essence, isn't this another type of OLED? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    In one sense, I think you are right in saying that they are organic. However, FED does not stand for field emitting diode, but rather field effect display (according to the article).

    In any case, I believe the term field emitting diode only exists in very specialized situations. I feel that either all diodes emit fields, or none of them do, but I'm only an undergrad, so what do I know? Googling the term "Field emitting diode" will net you 4 incomprehensible results, so I suppose you can make of that what you will. Anyway, my point is that FED shares nothing with the acronym LED.

  22. Re:Drugged up Diamands by KlomDark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No completely true, and in fact where the drug term came from in the first place. The word "Dope" has changed definitions over the years, as far as to which drug it refers.

    Originally, it referred to "Airplane Dope" which we know these days as "Model Glue". By squirting the glue into a bag and breathing the fumes, you'd get a good high. The original "dopers" (1940ish?) were ones who did this.

    Somewhere along the line (probably 1960s), the definition shifted (mainly because of term-illiterate media people who didn't really know what they were talking about, very similar to how the same idiots have morphed 'hacker' from a good to a bad thing over the years.) to refer to "dope" as marijuana/hemp and people who smoked it as "dopers". While heavy users of the original "dope" (airplane glue) did suffer from actual brain damage, the media tried to portray the use of marijuana (now known as "dope") as causing the same brain damage that airplane glue caused. Which we all know these days is complete FUD.

    In the 1990s, with the rise of the use of methampetamine, the word has changed again so that "dope" now means speed. Which leads to confusing situations where an old stoner asks a kid these days if he wants to go smoke some "dope" and the kid is disappointed when the stoner pulls out a bag of weed - something that will make him go to sleep in the next few hours instead of something that will keep him wide awake for several days.

  23. nano tubes, nano tubes, nano tubes... by aka_big_wurm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems like they have been talking about all the great things nano tubes can do for years now and I thought the first products were suppose to be on the market by now. It was nano tube batties for cell phones.

    Where are they, hanging out with Duke Nukem??

  24. Re:In essence, isn't this another type of OLED? by reverseengineer · · Score: 3, Informative
    It can be a pretty hazy definition, but generally pure carbon structures like nanotubes, fullerenes, diamonds, and graphite are considered to be inorganic. The presence of carbon in a compound is a necessary but not sufficient condition for "organicity," as a number of compounds which contain carbon, like carbon dioxide, carbon disulfide, calcium carbonate, and potassium cyanide, are not considered by most chemists to be organic compounds.

    Perhaps the best definition that I could give for an organic compound is that it contains carbon in a reduced state. Generally (and almost always for compounds found in nature), that means at least one carbon in the compound is bonded to hydrogen. When plants carry out photosynthesis, they take an inorganic compound, CO2, and use a complex series of reactions catalyzed by enzymes to incorporate it into an organic molecule, glucose (C6H12O6). In the net balance, oxygens are pulled off of carbon dioxide (to our great benefit) and hydrogens are added on. The electronic properties of carbon atoms are altered in a way that makes them "organic."

    Now, there are some places where this definition can get fuzzy, and they include the carbon allotropes like diamond and graphite. You can think of a carbon nanotube as a tessellation of fused benzene rings (in fact, some of the companies that make nanotubes use benzene as the starting material). However, benzene is organic (C6H6), and so are naphthalene (2 fused benzene rings, C10H8), anthracene, etc. As more and more rings are fused, though, the proportion of carbon to hydrogen increases greatly until the compound essentially consists exclusively of carbon bonded to carbon, which is an inorganic bond. No need to have your ignorance excused, though- as I said, it's a hazy definition, and the unfortunately terminology of "organic and inorganic" comes down to us from the days when people thought "organic" compounds possessed a sort of vital force that inorganic ones did not.

    As for the point about LEDs, I don't know nearly as much in that area, but as the AC who responded to you already pointed out, there aren't light-emitting diodes involved here. As I understand it, the idea here is to create electron guns like those found in a CRT on a molecular scale. In the way that a the point on a lightning rod can "bleed off" charge, these nanotubes or diamond dust motes would bleed off electrons into a vacuum, where they'd fly across and excite a phosphor screen. I know that carbon nanotubes and certain doped diamonds can have semiconductor properties; presumably these would be used to control the current that bleeds off each nanoparticle, and consequently what you see on the screen.

    --
    "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
  25. Re:Mork and Mindy by sunspot42 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is this a Monitor that Mork and Mindy would like? Nano Nano

    That does it. We need a "Not Funny -1" mod option.

  26. Re:burn-in? by ColaMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think he was working on the principle that only the 4:3 section would be burnt in (out?).

    The sections on the side, when they were used for 16:9 content, would look brighter,whiter and have a hint of minty freshness to boot, compared to the drab, 4000hr old 4:3 section of the Teev.

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.